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Spiritualseeker
20 September 2009, 04:33 PM
Namaste,

So I notice that I have sort of a reluctance to formal religion. This is due to my encounters with Islam and christianity. It has caused me really to distrust religion. That does not mean that I do not want to be spiritual. It simply means I am reluctant to take up religion formally. I find that things in religion such as giving money to the church or givine a percentage of your money to your spiritual lineage (in hinduism) to not be for me. I totally understand that priest and gurus sometimes do not have any income with th exception of devotees. I totally get that, but I find that I easily distrust because of the discrepancies in Islam and Christianity.

For an example I learned this from the Master's course from Himalayan academy

<H4>Sutra 161 of the Nandinatha Sutras


One-tenth Belongs To Siva

Siva's close devotees take a vow and joyously tithe ten percent of their gross income to their lineage monthly. This is God's money. Using it otherwise is forbidden--a karma reaping loss exceeding all anticipated gain. Aum.
</H4>
Once again I totally understand what its for, but I just dont like that it is OTHERWISE FORBIDDEN. This seems like I must make this devotion of money to the lineage monthly. I would love to give more definately, but I do not want to feel forced in a way. This is not unique to just hinduism there are religions like Islam and christianity that make this obligatory to devotees. In the Taoist tradition some temples will only give you certain energy practices only after paying a certain amount of money and then one is given some simple energy works that are "blessed" by the Masters of that lineage.

In my spiritual life i mainly just read books, do my self realization Fellowship Lessons, listen to audio books by Yogananda etc... But I dont know about really being part of the "hindu" way of life as formally converting and accepting some of the "Rules".
.... I dont know just my thoughts.

OM
-JUAN

Eastern Mind
20 September 2009, 04:56 PM
SS: The Nandinatha Sutras you refer to come from a very staunch traditional school of teaching. Subramuniyaswami was regarded as one of the strictest traditional teachers to come along in quite some time. They might be 'rules' for close devotees in that lineage, but certainly not to be interpreted that way for everyone. "Strong guidelines' yes.

Within Himalayan Academy there are two clearly stated goals: monistic Saiva Siddhanta, AND Hindu Solidarity. So reading that stuff, you have to keep this in mind: It's not for everyone, not intended to be. Hindu groups are not like Christians or Muslims. They don't demand others to think their way. Only if you have a strong desire to. Then yes. You should feel no pressure whatsoever from reading such.

Take care.

Aum Namasivaya

Spiritualseeker
20 September 2009, 05:40 PM
Namaste,

Thank you very much EM. I am glad to hear it this way. I am just so averse to formal religion. I guess its because I burned myself out in Islam.

yajvan
20 September 2009, 08:44 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté Ss,

Namaste,
I am just so averse to formal religion. I guess its because I burned myself out in Islam.Perhaps your angst is with dogma ?

a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church.
a prescribed doctrine i.e. a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. If we use religion in its most exalted definition I am all for it. That is,
religion in its truest sense, is relig (āre) to tie, fasten or re + ligāre to bind, tie. But to what? To sanātana , to the eternal , non-changing fullness (bhuma) of Brahman.

...just a thought.

praṇām

devotee
20 September 2009, 10:40 PM
SS, there is no compulsion in Hinduism as there is no organisation which controls this religion. Your relationship with God is personal between you & God & there is no need for an intermediary unless you want to have one.

However, you do leave me amazed by your skill of finding out something or the other from some source that even born Hindus like me are not aware of. That is really great ! Hinduism is an Ocean, dear ! Please don't drift like this. There are many Sampradayas (sects) & they have their rules. If you join any of those, you must follow their rules.

That is what I told you, confine yourself to the path that suits "you".

OM

proudhindu
21 September 2009, 12:47 AM
Tithing(dashamamsha) is not such a widespread practice in Hinduism.

It is voluntary and the restrictions are on how the money will be spent.

If some Guru wanted to make it Mandatory may be he had legitimate reasons to do so.After all institutions don't run merely on Love and devotion.

Spiritualseeker
21 September 2009, 08:02 PM
Perhaps your angst is with dogma ?

a specific tenet or doctrine authoritatively laid down, as by a church.
a prescribed doctrine i.e. a settled or established opinion, belief, or principle. If we use religion in its most exalted definition I am all for it. That is,
religion in its truest sense, is relig (āre) to tie, fasten or re + ligāre to bind, tie. But to what? To sanātana , to the eternal , non-changing fullness (bhuma) of Brahman.

...just a thought.

praṇām


Namaste Yajvan,

Always love to hear your views. I believe you are right It is Dogma that I am opposed to and a lot of Dogma comes with Rules to be followed or otherwise your not upon the methodology of that dogma. I think your right in stating if Religion is to bind or tie us to the Divine then we should support that. This is definately something I support.



SS, there is no compulsion in Hinduism as there is no organisation which controls this religion. Your relationship with God is personal between you & God & there is no need for an intermediary unless you want to have one.

However, you do leave me amazed by your skill of finding out something or the other from some source that even born Hindus like me are not aware of. That is really great ! Hinduism is an Ocean, dear ! Please don't drift like this. There are many Sampradayas (sects) & they have their rules. If you join any of those, you must follow their rules.

That is what I told you, confine yourself to the path that suits "you".

OM

Thank you Devotee. I have to keep reminding myself of how vast Hinduism is. I think I just have a defense mechanism in my subconscious due to my struggles in Islam. I simply need to see the Reality of things instead of seeing with delusions.

I bow to you.



Tithing(dashamamsha) is not such a widespread practice in Hinduism.

It is voluntary and the restrictions are on how the money will be spent.

If some Guru wanted to make it Mandatory may be he had legitimate reasons to do so.After all institutions don't run merely on Love and devotion.


Thank you for your input. I again blame not the gurus but I simply had a red flag go up as a natural defense from years I wasted in Dogma and creeds.

-Juan

Eastern Mind
22 September 2009, 05:51 PM
Namaste SS:

I have been reflecting on this very question, one I have myself considered, as have many others on here, especially the adoptives, converts, and those who were born into Hinduism but took sojourns out of it.

Indeed it might be true. Perhaps indeed you are not cut out for it. I think we get overzealous sometimes in promotion of our great faith. There is a concept called intellectual honesty that has to come into play here. It means taking a good hard look at yourself. Questions such as:

"What am I capable of?"
"How much commitment do I really want to put into it?"
"Am I ready to understand these depths of concepts?" Can I grasp what is needed to continue?" "Do I really feel the truth about this stuff, or is it just a cool thing to do?"

These questions arise in 'ordinary' life as well:

"Do I have the brains to be a lawyer or a doctor?"
"Can I handle the stress of this type of job?"
"Can I actually support 3 children?"
"Do I have the physical strength to do construction work?"

Sometimes people are not intellectually honest with themselves, and set out all full of steam and ego or whatever, and hit the brick wall hard. Why? Obviously, it's karma, but also they just put expectations too high in the beginning.

My Guru sent people back to the previous religion before allowing conversion. Then the essays were long and arduous. My personal conversion process took several years. I remember, "Explain, in your own words, ...... " , the beginning of each essay. This way you couldn't just regurgitate someone else's words. There was no intellectual cheating. You had to really convince yourself that you were a Hindu. You had to prove it to Him as well as to any previous religious leaders you may have known. In doing this, you proved it to yourself.

So yes, I agree. Maybe (heavy use of this word), just maybe you are not cut out for it. Only you can decide. Life should be joyous whichever way you go.

Aum Namasivaya

Spiritualseeker
22 September 2009, 06:33 PM
Namaste,

Thank you very much EM for your wisdom. I will definately take time to contemplate and figure out what I really want to do.



What am I capable of?"
"How much commitment do I really want to put into it?"
"Am I ready to understand these depths of concepts?" Can I grasp what is needed to continue?" "Do I really feel the truth about this stuff, or is it just a cool thing to do?"


I think these are important questions. Though I do not think my searching has to do with being cool as I really have no one to impress. I really have 0 friends and that is no exageration. The few friends i did have were muslim and now I am a kafir (one who covers the truth) to them. But It is important to ask if I really want to put much effort and time into practice, and if i can grasp the concepts.

with love
-juan