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Student
26 September 2009, 01:19 PM
I am doing research for a school project concerning various global religions and their views on separation of church and state. I am looking for the full spectrum of philosophies in the Sanatana Dharma faith. Specifically, how do you, as an individual within Sanatana Dharma, feel about prayer in school and the concept of intelligent design?

In my final compilation of research I will not refer to any specific individuals.

Thanks for any help and/or information you can provide.

Eastern Mind
26 September 2009, 03:06 PM
Student: Welcome to this forum. I am glad you came to a forum, and not to an individual or a textbook, where you would receive one opinion or a western slant on any issue.

Firstly, lets clear up one misconception. (I'm just assuming by your term 'faith') Please correct me if I'm wrong. Sanatana Dharma is extremely diverse. The scriptures outnumber and outword the 3 main western religions by at least 100 times. The beliefs are larger and encompass more ideas than Christianity, Judaism, and Islam combined. So indeed this research for opinion, to do it justice, is basically impossible. Certainly you could not draw any conclusions from what you hear here. For starters, you're limited to only English speakers. This is no random sample statistically.

Besides that, Hinduism practically encourages differences, that people think for themselves. So even if you tried to ask a very small group of one village all belonging to the same philosophical school, you'd still get opposing views.

Having said that, I personally believe in total separation of church and state, although it is clearly impossible. An elected representative has a religion. A teacher in a government school has a religion. I'll give you my personal example. I taught where this separation supposedly exists. I'm also a vegetarian. it didn't usually take kids too long to find that out, because if they offered me some beef jerky or something, I'd politely refuse. Then questions would come. So even with the best intentions to keep it separate, its impossible.

Secondly, I know nothing about intelligent design. Please explain what it is as I know of no concept in Hinduism that might be interpreted such.

Aum Namasivaya

Student
26 September 2009, 04:34 PM
Yes, I am vaguely aware of the incredible diversity encompassed in Sanatana Dharma; this is why I came to a public forum to collect as many individual opinions on the subjects at hand. I don't mean any offense in my usage of the term "faith." I don't mean to lump any group of people together unjustly. Again, I am not looking for the thoughts that will speak for the entire Sanatana Dharma on separation of church and state, just the opinions of the individuals who consider themselves to be within it.

Intelligent design is the belief that the divine created the universe to act as a machine, with each function and outcome being explicit. This concept is becoming more and more popular among Christians as a way to incorporate the theory of evolution. Essentially, the belief now (among some Christians) is as follows:
God created the universe, the universe gave birth to the Earth as God knew it would, the earth gave birth to life as God knew it would, and life evolved into man as God intended it to. Is there any similar belief among Dharmist?

Thanks for you input, it is sincerely appreciated. I want to give the most accurate presentation I can, displaying the immense diversity within Sanatana Dharma.

atanu
26 September 2009, 04:47 PM
Essentially, the belief now (among some Christians) is as follows:
God created the universe, the universe gave birth to the Earth as God knew it would, the earth gave birth to life as God knew it would, and life evolved into man as God intended it to. Is there any similar belief among Dharmist?

Thanks for you input, it is sincerely appreciated. I want to give the most accurate presentation I can, displaying the immense diversity within Sanatana Dharma.

Namaste Student,

Sometime back we had a discussion on Intelligent Design. You may wish to search for it. Most Hindus strongly believe that nothing proceeds without a Supreme will, which being omniscient knows and it knows because it pre-controls.

We, however, felt that imposing this subject as science and that too with Government funding, would be improper. Science is based on control experiments, it has a formalism. Imposing Design thing as a science subject is not just. Moreover, the God of intellgent designers (pun intented) is evidently an exclusive christian God.

Om Namah Shivaya

yajvan
26 September 2009, 07:13 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Namaste Student, Sometime back we had a discussion on Intelligent Design. You may wish to search for it. Om Namah Shivaya

This was a lively conversation back in 2007:

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2242&highlight=intelligent+design

Perhaps Student will find it of some use.

praṇām

Student
28 September 2009, 08:37 PM
Thanks for the references to the other discussions! Does anyone have any other information concerning prayer in school? I visited the Hindu Temple this evening in St. Louis. Our tour guide said Sanatana Dharma embraces all walks of life and faiths. It gave me the impression that Dharmist would be opposed to prayer in school, but I don't want to draw any conclusions based on a single person's testimony (nor due I wish to draw any conclusions at all, only collect opinions).

Any additional information is greatly appreciated!

yajvan
28 September 2009, 09:53 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté and hello Student,

Thanks for the references to the other discussions! Does anyone have any other information concerning prayer in school? I visited the Hindu Temple this evening in St. Louis. Our tour guide said Sanatana Dharma embraces all walks of life and faiths. It gave me the impression that Dharmist would be opposed to prayer in school, but I don't want to draw any conclusions based on a single person's testimony (nor due I wish to draw any conclusions at all, only collect opinions).

Any additional information is greatly appreciated!

Let me offer my humble opinion on your question, yet it will require some foundation building for your kind consideration… lets define some words:

sanātana सनातन is eternal , perpetual , permanent , everlasting , primeval , ancient.
dharma धर्म- has multiple meanings as steadfast, that which is established or firm , steadfast decree , statute , ordinance , law , practice , prescribed conduct , duty, right.
Yet is of great import to consider its root - dhṛ which means that which upholds, maintains , preserves , keeps.Hence this sanātana dharma is that eternal practice, method, conduct that upholds and maintains - not only the person but society with the relationship to the eternal and the universe.

This sanātana dharma is considered ārṣa jñāna or the knowledge/wisdom(jñāna) of the ṛṣi-s ; This ārṣa आर्ष means relating or belonging to or derived from ṛṣi-s ; the seers, the ones that cognize & sees Truth and relates it to us, the family of man.

Hence this sanātana dharma is rooted in the seer's of the Truth, ārṣa jñāna. Based upon that, IMHO these seer's would be delighted with school prayer for multiple reasons:

Reflection time
Collecting one's Being to a central place
Recognition of the Supreme no matter from what walk of life
Preparing one for the day with some time of silencePerhaps these days it would not be called 'prayer' to be politically correct ,maybe reflection time, moments of silence, meditation time, etc.

praṇām

Eastern Mind
29 September 2009, 06:32 AM
Student: I was a teacher (Alberta, Canada) for quite as while. The recitation of "the Lord's prayer" was phased out over time. Some more evangelical types kept doing it as long as no one complained. Probably that is true still in some small towns. The Gideon bible distribution program has also been banned in some districts.

As a child I heard that prayer over and over for 9 years. I never did memorise the thing. In one ear and out the other.

I am against any prayer in school. The topic has been debated as high as in the provincial legislature. No matter what, someone is unhappy. If you try to put in 'silent time' as Yajvan suggested, some Christian will surely complain (actually has happened) that it is 'meditation', an Eastern concept. So my professional opinion was to leave it out completely, not to keep stirring the multicultural multifaith pot, and focus on education instead.

Aum Namasivaya