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harekrishna
27 September 2009, 08:22 AM
पंचकोश Five layers of existence
Kosh means layers of existence. The existence of human beings have been described having five layers in Brahmananda and Anand Valli of Tattiriyopanishad. This is the primary Upanishad for Krishna Yajurveda. I learnt how to recite it, and have found it an excellent way of understand and classify existence and behavior of human beings. I am learning the meanings, so thought would share with you. It is dificult to get an exact English translation, these are closest to the meaning that I have learnt so far.

The five koshas are -
अन्नमयकोश Annamaya Kosh (Physical Layer)
प्राणमयकोश Pranamaya Kosh (Vitality Layer)
मनोमयकोश Manomaya Kosh (Consciousness Layer)
विज्ञानमयकोश Vigyanamaya Kosh (Intellect Layer)
आनंदमयकोश Anandmaya Kosh (Blissful Layer)

I will post the meanings in subsequent posts.
HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

harekrishna
27 September 2009, 08:26 AM
अन्नमय कोश Annamaya Kosh ( Physical Layer)

Literal meaning of Anna is food. However, as the lowest level of existence, Annamaya Kosh refers to the world of physical existence. Everything that we experience through our Indriyas are part of physical layer.

आनंद वल्ली ( Anand Valli )
अन्नाद्वै प्रजाः प्रजायन्ते । From Anna, creatures are born.

All creatures on earth are born out of Anna. Anna here can be translated as food, but food is not sufficient to describe this. This means that all creatures have a material existence.

याः काश्च पृथिवीँ श्रिताः । Whatsoever are dependent on earth.
अथो अन्नेनैव जीवन्ति । then, they live for the Anna.
अथैनदपि यन्त्यन्ततः । and lastly, they dissolve into the Anna.

All things which are dependent on earth, they live in the physical world. They live by devouring food, and ultimately dissolve into matter. From dust unto the dust, that is the rule of physical layer.

अन्नँ हि भूतानां ज्येष्ठम् । Anna is the oldest among the beings.
तस्मात् सर्वौषधमुच्यते । All the medicines comes out of Anna.
Matter form the Aushadhi. Aushadhis are matters with medicinal properties.

सर्वं वै तेऽन्नमाप्नुवन्ति । All of them get Anna,
येऽन्नं ब्रह्मोपासते । who worship Anna.
Material benefits can be obtained by concentrating on the materials.

अन्नँ हि भूतानां ज्येष्ठम् । Anna is the best among the bhutas.
तस्मात् सर्वौषधमुच्यते । All the Aushadhi comes out of it.

अन्नाद् भूतानि जायन्ते । Bhutas are born out of anna.
जातान्यन्नेन वर्धन्ते । They grow out of anna.
अद्यतेऽत्ति च भूतानि । And it (anna) eats the bhutas as well.
तस्मादन्नं तदुच्यत इति । That is how Anna is described.

Physical layer is complete in itself. Beings in their physical world, devour food. Ultimately, the physical existence of beings get devoured by the matter itself.

This is the base layer of existence.

smaranam
06 February 2010, 04:21 PM
Namaste

This is an important topic.
Please continue with the explanations of the other 4 koshas.

Thank You

praNAm

Onkara
07 February 2010, 03:42 AM
This is an important topic.
Please continue with the explanations of the other 4 koshas.

Thank You

praNAm

Well said, smaranam :)
I too would enjoy reading more on आनंदमयकोश Anandmaya Kosh (Blissful Layer) as it is said to be layer to overcome yet Ananda is also part of satchitananda, so in theory should also be the "goal" more than just a kosha/layer to overcome.

smaranam
07 February 2010, 08:00 PM
I too would enjoy reading more on [/FONT][/FONT][/COLOR]आनंदमयकोश Anandmaya Kosh (Blissful Layer) as it is said to be layer to overcome yet Ananda is also part of satchitananda, so in theory should also be the "goal" more than just a kosha/layer to overcome.

Namaste Snip

I agree. I don't think Anandamaya Kosh is something to overcome, like the other layers. Its where we want to be, as you said.

Also, I would think Manomaya Kosha = layer of mind rather than consciousness. Its Anandamaya alone that touches consciousness and hence bliss.

Some very precious conversation here :
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=34660&postcount=2

He continued after some time:
(Stopped anna)You have already won annamaya kosha (physical body)
(Stopped vaayu)You have already gained control over pranamayakosha (pranic body)
(Stop mana)Now you can gain control over manomaya kosha (senses and mana)
(Stop budhi)Then you can gain control over vijnanamaya kosha (buddhi and ahmkara)
And finally you can be one with the supreme kosha that is anandamaya kosha

When you gain complete control over vijnanamaya kosha,
Karya, kaarana, ends
That is the end of buddhi, (sabijam)
When ahmkara ends its called (nirbija)....

The Taittiriya Upanishad
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/upanishads/taittiriya.asp#ch3

It says

anna - food as [pUrNa ?] Brahman
prANa - breath as Brahman
mana - mind , speech, senses as Brahman
buddhi/ahamkAr - intellect/understanding as Brahman
Ananda - bliss as Brahman

"Different from this , which consists of understanding , is the other inner self , which consists of bliss"

There seem to be various ways to attain this bliss.

Jai Sri Krshna
praNAm

harekrishna
08 February 2010, 11:32 AM
Namaste Snip

I agree. I don't think Anandamaya Kosh is something to overcome, like the other layers. Its where we want to be, as you said.

Also, I would think Manomaya Kosha = layer of mind rather than consciousness. Its Anandamaya alone that touches consciousness and hence bliss.

Yes. Smaranam Ji, Snip Ji. Anandmaya Kosh is being one with Brahman. There are so many ways to look at it, but my POV is that none of the layers are there to overcome as such. They are more to be understood, and as one understands, the truth of other layers open up.
I am going to add Pranamaya kosha next.
HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

harekrishna
08 February 2010, 11:40 AM
The next layer of existence is Prana. Prana provides life or vitality to the Annamaya Kosh. If wire was the body, the the electricity running in it is Prana. Just like when electricity stops, the light bulb goes away, body is also left lifeless when Prana leaves the body.
In scientific terms, probably all those electrical signals running between neurons to make sense of this world form Vitality layer.

In Brahmanand Valli the following is said -
प्राणं देवा अनु प्राणन्ति । gods (devas) live by Prana.
मनुष्याः पशवश्च ये । So do humans and animals.
प्राणो हि भूतानामायुः । Prana is the age of living beings.
तस्मात् सर्वायुषमुच्यते । Therefore, it (prana) is known as everyone's lifespan.
सर्वमेव त आयुर्यन्ति । ये प्राणं ब्रह्मोपासते । They all get long lives, who worship prana as Brahman.

It is further said -
अन्योऽन्तर आत्मा प्राणमयः । Inside that (Annamaya Kosh), lies the Pranamaya Kosh.
तेनैष पूर्णः । He (annamaya kosh) is filled with this (pranamaya kosh).
स वा एष पुरुषविध एव । He (Prana) is surely of the type of the Purusha.
तस्य पुरुषविधताम् । Know that (prana) as Purusha.
अन्वयं पुरुषविधः । He is also known as Purusha.
तस्य प्राण एव शिरः । His head is Prana.
व्यानो दक्षिणः पक्षः । His left wing is vyana.
अपान उत्तरः पक्षः । His right wing is apana.
आकाश आत्मा । Sky (akasha) is soul (atma).
पृथिवी पुच्छं प्रतिष्ठा । The earth is rooted as the tail.
Prana consisting of Prana, vyana and apana flies within the soul, just like a bird flies in the sky. The existence of all of this is derived from earth or annamaya kosh.

Else where in Shikshavalli, it is said -
अथाध्यात्मम । प्राणो व्यानोअपान उदान: समान: ।
Let us elaborate on adhyatma | (These are) prana, vyana, apana, udaana & samaana |

We can see that this upanishad is dividing the Pranic existence into a five-fold structure- prana , vyana, apana, udaana and samaan. Each of these prana are active in different parts of body. Prana is active around heart, apaana near lower stomach, udaana near and around vocal chords, samaana near middle and upper stomach and vyaana in most of body. These are life-energy flows in the body.

One must purify and control Prana to really feel life. In the Ashtanga Yoga of Patanjali, Asana is there to purify Annamaya Kosh, while Pranayama is there to purify Pranamaya kosh. I really do not fully understand these yet, but after having doing Pranayama for some time, I can definitely feel life better. A lot of times, even before I am about to fall sick, i can sense some sickness coming. These practices make a person more aware of life forces in and around themselves.

HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

devotee
08 February 2010, 08:18 PM
Very good thread indeed ! Thanks HK !! :)

OM

yajvan
08 February 2010, 09:18 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namasté


regarding these kośa's¹ mentioned, is it one's opinion that these 5 ( some say 3) are distinct or do they overlap - one into another in some way?

praṇām

words
kośa ( some write kosha) has a few additional meanings:

a cask, vessel for holding liquids, a pail, bucket; a drinking vessel;
a box, cupboard, the interior part of a carriage; a sheath, case, covering;
also an egg.
In jyotish it can be a name given to the conjunction of to planets; some use this name for the 2nd astrological mansion

harekrishna
09 February 2010, 10:25 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namasté


regarding these kośa's¹ mentioned, is it one's opinion that these 5 ( some say 3) are distinct or do they overlap - one into another in some way?



Dear Yajvan Jee -
The five koshas envelope each other. The grossest layer is Annamaya Kosha, Pranamaya Kosha exists on Annamaya Kosha, Manomaya Kosha exists on Annamaya and Pranamaya. Vigyanmaya Kosha envelops all the lower Koshas. Anandmaya Kosh pervades everything. That is my understanding, other views are most welcome. In each layer, the existence gets from gross (sthula) to fine (sukshma). The unhealthy existence of a layer affects other layers as well (with the exception of Anandmaya Kosha). A mal-functioning Prana, can cause body sickness. A mental disturbance also causes Pranic and Body disturbances.

Brahman pervades all these layers is further explained in Bhrigu Valli of Taittiriya. Bhrigu son of Rshi Varun, asks his father to instruct him of Brahma. As he performs Tapas, the Upanishad goes -
अन्नं ब्रह्मेति व्यजानात । Anna is Brahma, he knew thus.
It goes on to explain, that each layer is Brahma itself. Upon, realizing the Blissful layer, Bhrigu goes into a song and exclaims that it was all Brahma himself, and he himself is so.

Could you say which three koshas are told by other?

HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

Onkara
09 February 2010, 12:29 PM
Yes. Smaranam Ji, Snip Ji. Anandmaya Kosh is being one with Brahman. There are so many ways to look at it, but my POV is that none of the layers are there to overcome as such. They are more to be understood, and as one understands, the truth of other layers open up.
I am going to add Pranamaya kosha next.
HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

Thanks for correcting me, Smaranam and the continued posts Harekrishna.
I enjoy Yajvan's input also.

bhaktajan
09 February 2010, 01:10 PM
5 Steps of the ladder of Brahman Consciousness:


There are two kinds of ksetra-jna [conscious knower of the Field of existence]:
the individual jiva-atma [living entity] and the supreme living Personality of Godhead.

There is a manifestation of the Supreme Lord’s energy:

1] Anna-maya, dependence upon food for existence. This is a materialistic realization of the Supreme.


After seeing the Supreme Lord in food:
2] Prana-maya, the Supreme Lord in the living symptoms or life forms.

Then, one sees beyond the living symptoms:
3] Jnana-maya, the Supreme Lord via, thinking, feeling and willing.

Then there is Brahman realization:
4] Vijnana-maya, seeing one's soul's bodily mind and life symptoms —as distinguished from the living entity [the soul, the jiva-atma] itself.


Then the last and Absolute stage is:
5] Ananda-maya, realization of the all-blissful nature.

There a five Steps of the ladder of Brahman consciousness, called brahmapuccam.


Annamaya, Pranamaya & gyanamaya—involve the material elements & karmic acts of the sentient souls.

Transcendental to these is the Absolute Truth, vis-a-vis, Supreme Personality of Godhead, who is called anandamaya.

The Vedanta-sutra also describes the Absolute Truth, the Personality of Godhead, as:



ananda-mayo ’bhyasat


the Supreme Personality of Godhead is by nature full of joy.



To engage in Ananda the Absolute Personality of Godhead is present in the form of:
vijnanamaya,
pranamaya,
jnana-maya &
annamaya.

In the field of material elements (earth, water, fire, etc) the individual Soul is the enjoyer, and different from the individual Soul is the ananda-maya.

If the individual Soul decides to enjoy in engaging himself with the ananda-maya, then he becomes a self-realised soul.

This is the analysis of the Absolute Personality of Godhead as the Absolute "knower of the field", the individual Soul as the secondary knower, and the nature of the cosmic elements.
The individual Souls much seek these yogic truths in Vedanta.

yajvan
09 February 2010, 06:44 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namasté harekrishna,




The five koshas envelope each other...
Could you say which three koshas are told by other?

HariH Om! Hare Krishna

Thank you for your posts on this matter. It is worthy to note that I am not inferring that 5 kośa's are incorrect... as these 5 are inferred in the taittirīya upaniṣad as you have rightly called out if my memory serves me correctly. Here are the 3 that I have read:

ānanda-maya kośa which forms the kāraṇa-śarīra or causal frame, some call the essense of bliss.
vijñāna-maya kośa (or buddhi-maya kośa or mano-maya kośa) the sheath of the intellect, sūkṣma-śarīra, considered the subtle frame
anna-maya kośa or the sheath of nourishment, forming the sthūla-śarīra or our gross frame By inspection we can see prāṇa-maya kośa is missing and mano-maya kośa is considered part-and-parcel of vijñāna-maya kośa. Now I will have to find the upaniṣad from where this comes. Yet it is clear to me that the triad of 3 is attractive, just as (in this case) pañca-kośa is attractive to manifest the truth via this upaniṣad.


That said, for me, the notion of the SELF being seated somewhere in the body does not fit well with my understanding. The SELF as called out in many śāstra-s is all-pervading, there is no place it is not. Perhaps we need to uncover/transcend the 5 kośa-s to get a clear experience of SELF, yet it ( SELF) by defintion must also pervade these 5 sheths too. Yet this is a subject for another time.


I also asked the following ( and did not do a good job articulating my question)

regarding these kośa's¹ mentioned, is it one's opinion that these 5 ( some say 3) are distinct or do they overlap - one into another in some way?
Let me ask another way - is there a firm stop from one kośa to another? We can use the model of concentric circles ( one inside the other). The biggest circle would be anna-maya kośa or our gross frame. Then inside this circle another, then another , then another kośa concentrically would fit, as the circles would get smaller , yet all share the same center.
So the question is, is there are hard stop where one kośa starts and another begins?

praṇām

Mohini Shakti Devi
09 February 2010, 07:05 PM
Is Brahman Conscious? Yes it is.

All the superlative descriptions of Sri Brahman found in sastra are actually describing in what manner "Brahman is Conscious".

Would a person declare that Sri Brahman's Consciousness is limited to arising only those bound in samsara births?

We are conscious. We search for the Absolute Truth.
Absolute Truth is Conscious, a Consciousness all its own.

Brahman is Self-Conscious, of Himself.

Opulences of Brahman are actually the Glories of His (God's) consciousness.

harekrishna
13 February 2010, 02:05 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

Let me ask another way - is there a firm stop from one kośa to another? We can use the model of concentric circles ( one inside the other). The biggest circle would be anna-maya kośa or our gross frame. Then inside this circle another, then another , then another kośa concentrically would fit, as the circles would get smaller , yet all share the same center.
So the question is, is there are hard stop where one kośa starts and another begins?

praṇām


Namaste Yajvan Jee,

I am not sure if I can answer the questions to the point being asked. Let me offer an understanding.

Another way to look at these koshas is that it pervades the lower koshas. Just like, when red color added to water makes a red water, Prana added to Matter brings a body (Chetana Sharira). Matter without Prana would be without any life (ie Achetana).
So, here is what each Kosha brings. Annamaya Kosh is all physical beings. Without Pranamaya Kosh, a rock and body are the same. Prana brings life to matter. Manomaya Kosh provides the personality to the life. Manomaya Kosh contains the memories and is responsible for the thought process. Sanskaras (latent impressions) are part of this layer. These three layers are pretty tightly connected. The energy (Tanmatras) generated by the sensing organs (Indriyas ) are carried by Prana to the Manomaya Kosha. For the response, the latent impressions kick in, and life reacts according to that. You can see that Manomaya Kosh reflects the observations according to one's latent impressions.
Vigyanamaya Kosh offers a whiff of free will. God fills human beings with the capacity to discriminate between disturbing (ie KliShTa) and calming (ie AkliShTa) mind-impressions (Vrittis). This discriminatory power (Viveka) is part of Vigyanamaya Kosha. Anandmaya Kosh is full of Sat and Anand. In this existence, Ananda overpowers all the other Koshas. When a sadhaka reaches this kosha, he falls into a song, and exclaims -
अहं ऋतस्य प्रथमजा । I am the first born of truth.
पूर्वं देवेभ्यो अमृतस्य ना3भायि । Even before the devas, I was the center of the immortal.
It leads to believe that that Nirbija Samadhi, the highest medidative stage is where this Kosha is experieced.

Will be very interested in learning about the three Koshas you have mentioned and their demarcations.

HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

kd gupta
14 February 2010, 02:17 AM
Is Brahman Conscious? Yes it is.

All the superlative descriptions of Sri Brahman found in sastra are actually describing in what manner "Brahman is Conscious".

Would a person declare that Sri Brahman's Consciousness is limited to arising only those bound in samsara births?

We are conscious. We search for the Absolute Truth.
Absolute Truth is Conscious, a Consciousness all its own.

Brahman is Self-Conscious, of Himself.

Opulences of Brahman are actually the Glories of His (God's) consciousness.
Consciousness is knowing the things as they are . Any living creature can not live without food , there ever and never technology can prove it wrong .All living entities except human possess the consciousness , but the human has to cultivate it . The oldest old scriptures are Vedas which narrate the life style . To utilize these Vedas knowledge in utmost proper sense is consciousness of life . Goswamiji has taken the cows described in Vedas as Earth , he describes the demons as those who pollute the environment……The terrible outrages the demons did beggar description. There is no limit to the
evil-doings of those who hold violence most dear to their heart. The number of villains, thieves and gamblers and of those who coveted others.
wealth and wives swelled to a great extent. People honoured not their parents and gods
and exacted service from pious souls. Those who act in this way, know all
such creatures as demons. Perceiving the supreme disrespect for religion Earth was
extremely alarmed and perturbed. .The weight of mountains, rivers and oceans,. she
said to herself, .is not so oppressive to me as of him who is malevolent to others.. She
saw all goodness perverted; yet for fear of demons she could not utter a word. After great
deliberation she took the form of a cow and went to the spot where all gods and sages
were in hiding. With tears in her eyes she told them her sufferings; but none of them
could be of any help to her.
Vedas say , Aum krato smar, klibe smar , kratam smar . Krsn tells Arjuna that the real meaning of these words is to be understood and those who don’t know they are of less intelligence . Yaam imaam pushpitaam vaacham pravadantyavipashchitah;
Vedavaadarataah paartha naanyad asteeti vaadinah.
Flowery speech is uttered by the unwise, who take pleasure in the eulogising words of
the Vedas, O Arjuna, saying: “There is nothing else!”. Also the question of Arjun as Na chaitad vidmah kataran no gareeyo
Yadwaa jayema yadi vaa no jayeyuh;
Yaan eva hatwaa na jijeevishaamas
Te’vasthitaah pramukhe dhaartaraashtraah.
I can hardly tell which will be better: that we should conquer them or they should conquer
us. Even the sons of Dhritarashtra, after slaying whom we do not wish to live, stand facing us , is answered as consciousness by Krsn .He says that controlling the senses by mind with help of steady wisdom make the victory over lust , anger and covetousness .
The lust is generated by the age up to 25 which is for Krato smar or for creation . The anger is generated up to age of 50 which is for Klibe smar or performing the noble duties . The last is covetousness which is generated by the age up to 75 and which is for Kratam smar or knowing about the entire life span . These all are from the consciousness of super soul and not by the individual soul , as Krsn says….Teshaam evaanukampaartham aham ajnaanajam tamah;
Naashayaamyaatmabhaavastho jnaanadeepena bhaaswataa.
Out of mere compassion for them, I, dwelling within their Self, destroy the darkness
born of ignorance by the luminous lamp of knowledge.

harekrishna
14 February 2010, 04:28 AM
Manomaya Kosh
Manomaya Kosha talks about mind. Mind is responsible for different behavior of different people. For each experience, mind reflects the action for each person. This action is heavily dependent on the Sanskaras, latent impressions in the mind. These create disturbances (Vrittis) that causes one to cloud the vision. These disturbances are like clouds which are covering Sun, the true nature of human beings. The existence of mind is dualistic - one creating negative distrubance and one creating positive disturbance. When one consciously creates positive vibes, the mind is purified

Taittiriya says -
अन्योऽन्तर आत्मा मनोमयः । Inside that (Pranamaya Kosh), lies the Manomaya Kosh.
तेनैष पूर्णः । It (Pranamaya Kosh) is filled with this (Manomaya Kosh)
स वा एष पुरुषविध एव । He (Manomaya) is surely of the type of the Purusha.
तस्य पुरुषविधताम् । Know that (Manomaya) as Purusha.
अन्वयं पुरुषविधः । He is also known as Purusha.
तस्य यजुरेव शिरः । His head is Yajur.
ऋग्दक्षिणः पक्षः । His left wing is Rik.
सामोत्तरः पक्षः । His right wing is Sama.
आदेश आत्मा । Aadesh is his soul.
अथर्वाङ्गिरसः पुच्छं प्रतिष्ठा । Atharvangiras is his tail.

The bird of Manomaya Kosh consists of - Yajur as its head, Rig as its left wing, Sama as its right wing and Atharva and Angiras as its tail. The soul of Manomaya Kosh is Aadesh (Divine Directions). By showing, its different Angas as the different Vedas, Taittiriya tells us to follow the divine directions of all the Vedas.

HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

Mohini Shakti Devi
14 February 2010, 10:16 AM
The lust is generated by the age up to 25 = for creation .
The anger is generated up to age of 50 = performing the noble duties .
The covetousness is generated up to 75 = knowing about the entire life span .

THIS VERY INTERESTING, KD.

Mohini Shakti Devi
14 February 2010, 10:47 AM
Is Brahman Conscious? Yes it is.

All the superlative descriptions of Sri Brahman found in sastra are actually describing in what manner "Brahman is Conscious".

Would a person declare that Sri Brahman's Consciousness is limited to arising only those bound in samsara births?

We are conscious. We search for the Absolute Truth.
Absolute Truth is Conscious, a Consciousness all its own.

Brahman is Self-Conscious, of Himself.

Opulences of Brahman are actually the Glories of His (God's) consciousness.

IMHO:

The soul (jiv-atma) is an individual

Brahman is real and contains all time space and elements and souls in manifest and un-manifest states in all finite in infinite ends of the spectrum.

There is only ONE BRAHMAN and it envelopes all and is the origin of all.

BUT,

There is 'DIRECTIONS' and thus the soul (jiv-atma) is an individual, that never loses its individuality (can not be divided).

Proposition:
In space there is a form, ie:

A Square.

The square has 4 corners.

Each corner CANNOT OCCUPY THE SAME SPACE AS ANOTHER (from the law of Physics: "No two objects can occupy the same space at the same time").

Therefore no two souls are the same;
each soul occupies its own space all its own.

A soul is a Knot of consciousness known as jiv-atma (individual soul).

The Knot is where Sat-chitt-anand occupies a place in
the ocean of the cosmic material manifestation filled with seperated elements (known as earth, water,fire,air,ether,mind,intelligence,ego).

The knot or soul cannot be untied nor can it hide nor be seperated from other knots not assume the position of another knot; The Soul is an indivisable entity.

The left-side and right-side of the square cannot be confused with the eachother nor interchanged, for there is the Left and there is the Right, an Up and a Down; diametrical opposite corners; and then there is the cube shape; all show that they cannot not be merged or they cannot not be thought to take eachother's place, they must stand incontradistinction to represent reality as it is.

Merging or imploding a "box shape" into a state of stasis (zero-ness) is the desolve it/erase it/make it 'no-more'.

But even then the laws governing the shape are predicated on the cardinale directions onto which the zero-state expands, ie: Left-Right + Up-Down + all ten directions BECAUSE IT IS ABSOLUTE.

Similarly, each Soul is absolute with its inherit, by birthright, limits of existence; which is comprised of "sat-cit-anada" that cannot be merged with neighboring souls nor with inert material elements.

............................................................
Notice that the above does noy mention Krishna The Supreme Personalty of Godhead who expands his potency to manifest the Jiv-atmas and the Material and Spirtual Skys where time is, respectively tempory and eternal.

Jivattatva
14 February 2010, 04:41 PM
Interesting thread.

Thanks to all . Also to bhakta Jan although you obviously have a different slant in your explanation.

kd gupta
15 February 2010, 10:29 AM
You are no where , only He is there , see....
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bqTe2qA3jGw&feature=player_embedded

brahman
16 February 2010, 05:49 AM
Namaste Snip

I agree. I don't think Anandamaya Kosh is something to overcome, like the other layers. Its where we want to be, as you said.

Also, I would think Manomaya Kosha = layer of mind rather than consciousness. Its Anandamaya alone that touches consciousness and hence bliss.

Some very precious conversation here :
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=34660&postcount=2

He continued after some time:
(Stopped anna)You have already won annamaya kosha (physical body)
(Stopped vaayu)You have already gained control over pranamayakosha (pranic body)
(Stop mana)Now you can gain control over manomaya kosha (senses and mana)
(Stop budhi)Then you can gain control over vijnanamaya kosha (buddhi and ahmkara)
And finally you can be one with the supreme kosha that is anandamaya kosha

When you gain complete control over vijnanamaya kosha,
Karya, kaarana, ends
That is the end of buddhi, (sabijam)
When ahmkara ends its called (nirbija)....

The Taittiriya Upanishad
http://www.hinduwebsite.com/sacredscripts/hinduism/upanishads/taittiriya.asp#ch3

It says

anna - food as [pUrNa ?] Brahman
prANa - breath as Brahman
mana - mind , speech, senses as Brahman
buddhi/ahamkAr - intellect/understanding as Brahman
Ananda - bliss as Brahman

"Different from this , which consists of understanding , is the other inner self , which consists of bliss"

There seem to be various ways to attain this bliss.

Jai Sri Krshna
praNAm

Dear smaranam,


Please click here to read the reply (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=39747&postcount=9)



.

Jivattatva
16 February 2010, 03:53 PM
]Mohini shakti devi said:

The soul (jiv-atma) is an individual

Brahman is real and contains all time space and elements and souls in manifest and un-manifest states in all finite in infinite ends of the spectrum.

There is only ONE BRAHMAN and it envelopes all and is the origin of all.

Hare Krishna

From the impressions I got reading your posts in this forum, you are a Gaudiya Vaishnava.

I think that sentence is not right from the POV of GV. Brahman, God, is not made up of those things eg. time, space etc.

Krishna in his impersonal form is Space and Time itself.

Read Gita 11.32 Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds.

However, Krishna in his personal swarup in all his sat cit ananda qualities has his own loka which is Goloka where he immerse himself in his pleasurable rasa, seemingly detached from his impersonal shaktis or energy, like the law of nature, time and space.

Regarding the nature of a jiva with all his five layers, that may be so and thus jiva evolves unto these five layers time and time again and get entangled in the viscious cycle of birth and death. There is no up and down in the viscious cycle, only the potentiality to get off the cycle.

harekrishna
17 February 2010, 06:30 AM
]

Hare Krishna

From the impressions I got reading your posts in this forum, you are a Gaudiya Vaishnava.

I think that sentence is not right from the POV of GV. Brahman, God, is not made up of those things eg. time, space etc.

Krishna in his impersonal form is Space and Time itself.



Jivatattva Ji,
I am plain vanilla Hindu, follower of Sanatana Dharma, originally from India. I do not belong to GV Sampradaya as such.
I did not intend to say that God is made up of these things, may be the translation is coming like that. Another way to look at it is that, the five fold existence is borne out of Brahmana. So in that way God permeates these existence.
HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

soham3
17 February 2010, 09:56 AM
By the way, Sri Aurobindo of Pondicherry says that there exists a stage of supramental consciousness in between the Vijnanamaya kosha and the Anandamaya Kosha.

Mohini Shakti Devi
17 February 2010, 10:30 AM
]Mohini shakti devi said:

The soul (jiv-atma) is an individual

Brahman is real and contains all time space and elements and souls in manifest and un-manifest states in all finite in infinite ends of the spectrum.

There is only ONE BRAHMAN and it envelopes all and is the origin of all.

Hare Krishna

From the impressions I got reading your posts in this forum, you are a Gaudiya Vaishnava.

I think that sentence is not right from the POV of GV. Brahman, God, is not made up of those things eg. time, space etc.

Krishna in his impersonal form is Space and Time itself.

Read Gita 11.32 Time I am, the great destroyer of the worlds.

However, Krishna in his personal swarup in all his sat cit ananda qualities has his own loka which is Goloka where he immerse himself in his pleasurable rasa, seemingly detached from his impersonal shaktis or energy, like the law of nature, time and space.

Regarding the nature of a jiva with all his five layers, that may be so and thus jiva evolves unto these five layers time and time again and get entangled in the viscious cycle of birth and death. There is no up and down in the viscious cycle, only the potentiality to get off the cycle.

Did you miss my Point?

Brahman is conscious. Brahman is a conscious being. Brahman's birth right is to be conscious. I am talking about Krishna. Krishna is the source of Consciousness. Krishna is the First person.

The jiva (Spirit soul) is not the above five layers.

The jiva (Spirit soul) by intelligence can precieve the mercy of MAYA (the five layers) by seeing how Bhagavan Shree Krishna expands His plenary energies inorder to compose the creation where We are engaged. We remove all fear of our predicament by recognizing God's plenary expansion where we are all enscounced.

To get off the cycle is to return to Vaikuntha to return to the pastimes of our spirit souls in the spiritual sky, beyond the encrustment that is the layers of the Brahmanda that our Four-Headed Pita-ma lord Brahma resides along with the luminaries in our blakened night sky.

kd gupta
18 February 2010, 11:04 AM
Did you miss my Point?

Brahman is conscious. Brahman is a conscious being. Brahman's birth right is to be conscious. I am talking about Krishna. Krishna is the source of Consciousness. Krishna is the First person.

The jiva (Spirit soul) is not the above five layers.

The jiva (Spirit soul) by intelligence can precieve the mercy of MAYA (the five layers) by seeing how Bhagavan Shree Krishna expands His plenary energies inorder to compose the creation where We are engaged. We remove all fear of our predicament by recognizing God's plenary expansion where we are all enscounced.

To get off the cycle is to return to Vaikuntha to return to the pastimes of our spirit souls in the spiritual sky, beyond the encrustment that is the layers of the Brahmanda that our Four-Headed Pita-ma lord Brahma resides along with the luminaries in our blakened night sky.
Exactly......
Liberation [ Moksha ] is the word everybody has the right to achieve . Nature , animal world and lastly the human has the right for liberation . All scriptural material suggests to follow them with open eyes and ears and thus applying full consciousness .Old Vedas say…Nakam nam nityaniratishayanamokshaparamapadaksharpardhamadishabdvachynakakhyavakunthalokam . This says that without harming anybody including nature or environment and living entities , one feels pleasure experiencing the Almighty in himself , is Liberated in real sense .Krsn in gita says…Yatendriya manobuddhir munir mokshaparaayanah;
Vigatecchaabhaya krodho yah sadaa mukta eva sah.
With the senses, the mind and the intellect always controlled, having liberation as his
supreme goal, free from desire, fear and anger—the sage is verily liberated for ever.
Once sage Narda asked to Sanatakumars , to preach him about the Almighty and Moksha . Sanatakumars told that these scriptures including Vedas are the matter of tongue , these if not well understood may not lead to proper meaning , therefore the absolute truth is not knowing I am brahma , but to realize the Brahma in oneself and that is real pleasure [ Moksha ] .There is a Vedmantra saying that if somebody does not feel the fear of Almighty in himself has nothing to do with scriptures , may be Vedas too and is never liberated .
Yastanna ved kimracha karishyati . rig. 1/164/39

Jivattatva
19 February 2010, 01:07 AM
Jivatattva Ji,
I am plain vanilla Hindu, follower of Sanatana Dharma, originally from India. I do not belong to GV Sampradaya as such.
I did not intend to say that God is made up of these things, may be the translation is coming like that. Another way to look at it is that, the five fold existence is borne out of Brahmana. So in that way God permeates these existence.
HariH Om!
Hare Krishna


I was not referring to you. The Hare Krishna on my post was a greeting. I was referring to Mohini's sentence especifically her use of word "contain".

Anyway, she explained herself further and I will leave it at that.

harekrishna
21 February 2010, 10:16 AM
Vigyanamaya Kosh has the capability to discern truth and rightful behavior. In spiritual progress, this layer provides the tools necessary to overcome the habits of mind, and not get caught up in the endless cycle of action and reaction to the external events of the world (Sansara)
अन्योऽन्तर आत्मा विज्ञानमयः । Inside that (Manomaya Kosh), lies the Vigyanamaya Kosh.
तेनैष पूर्णः । It (Manomaya Kosh) is filled with this (Vigyanamaya Kosh)
स वा एष पुरुषविध एव । He (Vigyanamaya) is surely of the type of the Purusha.
तस्य पुरुषविधताम् । Know that (Vigyanamaya) as Purusha.
अन्वयं पुरुषविधः । He is also known as Purusha.
तस्य श्रद्धैव शिरः । His head is Shraddha (Devotion).
ऋतं दक्षिणः पक्षः । His left wing is Ritam (Rightful behavior).
सत्यमुत्तरः पक्षः । His right wing is Satya (Truth).
योग आत्मा । Yoga is his sshould.
महः पुच्छं प्रतिष्ठा । His tail and base is MahaH.

The first pre-requisite for Vigyanamaaya Kosh to experience is to have Shraddha that is devotion. Without devotion and belief that there is God, and related truthful and rightful decisions, it is not possible to progress. That is why with the devotional mind, one must use Ritam and Satyam to break the bondages of mind. This Kosha exists in MahaH space. MahaH is a sphere of existence that was first discovered by Mahachamasya, a Vedic Rishi. This is beyond the three creational existences - Bhu (this earth), BhuvaH ( space between earth and heavens) and SuvaH (heavens). The point being that this sheath of layer is beyond the physical world's existence.
Because this Kosha provides with the intelligence, it also brings in a sense of false owner ship (Karta), this leads to ego.
Further it says -
विज्ञानं यज्ञं तनुते । Vigyana performs the Yagna.
कर्माणि तनुतेऽपि च । And, it also performs the Karma.
विज्ञानं देवाः सर्वे । ब्रह्म ज्येष्ठमुपासते । Vigyana is worshipped as best in the form of Brahma by all gods.
विज्ञानं ब्रह्म चेद्वेद । Treat Vigyana as the Brahma and the Veda.
तस्माच्चेन्न प्रमाद्यति । This, one must not treat lightly.
शरीरे पाप्मनो हित्वा । सर्वान्कामान्समश्नुत इति । Leaving sins (Paap) in the body itself, he experiences all its effects (Kama).
So in this Kosha, Vedas instruct us not to be affected by the experiences of body. These experiences are limited to the lower Koshas, and in this kosha, by not getting the egoistic sense of ownership, the hurtful experiences can be limited.
HariH Om!
Hare Krishna

harekrishna
06 March 2010, 08:11 AM
Anandamaya Kosha
Anandaamaya Kosh is Blissful layer. By acquiring, the capability to discern in Vigyanamaya Kosh, one slowly is able to reduce the effects of disturbing thoughts (KlishTa Vrittis). As the reflection of outwardly world inside the body becomes like that of a reflection onto a still water, true bliss start setting in. Vigyanamaya Kosh has a sense of agency, an egoistic sense of a doer. Self-control and proper discrimination by this agency reduces the rippling effects of Vrittis in Chitta. In Anandamaya Kosh, this sense of agency is gone. One's experience sits in pure stillness full of bliss.
Taittiriya says -
अन्योऽन्तर आत्माऽऽनन्दमयः । Inside that (Vigyanamaya Kosh), lies the Anandaamaya Kosh.
तेनैष पूर्णः । It (Vigyanamaya Kosh) is filled with this (Anandamaya Kosh)
स वा एष पुरुषविध एव । He (Anandamaya) is surely of the type of the Purusha.
तस्य पुरुषविधताम् । Know that (Anandamaya) as Purusha.
अन्वयं पुरुषविधः । He is also known as Purusha.
तस्य प्रियमेव शिरः । His head is Priyam (Love).
मोदो दक्षिणः पक्षः । His left wing is Moda (Happiness).
प्रमोद उत्तरः पक्षः । His right wing is Pramod (Intense happiness)
आनन्द आत्मा । Anand (Bliss) is his soul.
ब्रह्म पुच्छं प्रतिष्ठा । His tail and base is Brahma.
The foundation of this layer is Brahman, who is full of bliss. Pleasure and bliss fill this layer. There are two major (and various minor) divergent opinions of this layer's existence to Brahmana -
(1) Advaita of Shankara teaches that all the layers of existence including Anandmaya Kosha is Mithya (ie unreal). Once one go beyond even these experiences, the real nature of creation can be experienced.
(2) Dvaita (of Ramanujacharya) takes this layer and this individual souls to be distinct and blissfully located in Anandamaya Kosha.
Both agree that Anandamaya Kosh is a blissful existence (beyond the dualities of pain and pleasure).

During various states of Samadhi one can start experiencing the Vigyanamaya and Anandamay layers. Some of these states of Samadhi has been explained in Patanjali Yoga Sutras.
In Savitarka samadhi one has the idea of I-ness, while in Nirvitarka samadhi this I-ness is dissolved into pure bliss. In Savitarka samadhi
one is experiencing Vigyanamaya, while in Nirvitarka samadhi the Anandmaya layer is being experienced. Even in Nirvitarka samadhi, there is Sabija (meaning with seed). In this sabeej samadhi, the individual souls is still there, and while it is there, there is birth and rebirth. Beyond this there is Nirbija samadhi, where even this individuality washes away revealing the true nature of Brahmana, and one is now beyond the cycles of birth and rebirth.

HariH Om!
Hare Krishna