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rainycity
11 October 2009, 01:56 AM
Soma is the mind altering sacrament taken by the sages who authored the Rig Veda and praised it in its hymns.

I have read the view that the term Soma is not neccessarily always reffering to the intoxicating substance which was drank and offered during ritual. In yoga and tantra, there is a chakra in the head sometimes called the bindu or soma chakra. It is represented by the moon and is said to trickle amrita or soma down into the body.

The chakra system corresponds to the endocrine system of the body. The endocrine system consists of glands which secrete hormones.
I have often thought that soma is a chemical secreted by the brain called dopamine. Most recreational drugs cause the brain to release lots of dopamine which is what causes the effects of the drug. A closely related chemical is endorphins, which is produced by the pituitary gland and the hypothalamus, both associated with the higher chakras and the bindu/soma chakra. It's produced during and after strenous excercise, pain, orgasm and excitement. Endorphins cause more dopamine to be released.

Three popular recreational drugs of today are amphetamines, cannabis and opiates/opiods (includes drugs like heroin, opium, prescription pain killers like oxycontin etc). In a pbs program called The Story Of India, the narrator says that soma is the substance called bhang, which is a combination of ephedrine (ampetamines are basically ephedrine), cannabinoids and opiates.
LSD is another recreation drug, a psychadelic associated with spiritual experiences which effects dopamine in the brain. MDMA (ecstacy) is another popular recreational drug that releases alot of dopamine in the brain and is associated with feelings of intense love, ecstacy, dancing, feelings of universal love and oneness.

The pituitary gland, which is associated with spiritual experiences, such as the experiences of the dying or NDE's (it releases the most powerful psychadelic known to man called DMT in a persons brain when they are dying) is also believed to release dopamine in the brain.
Endorphins are associated with spiritual experiences, feelings of ecstacy, etc. It's produced during and after strenous excercise, pain, orgasm and excitement. The spiritual associations with orgasm and excitement are obvious. Pain is always a part of excercise and exertion (an important part of yoga, tapas) and can be seen as an evolutionary energy.

Soma is given alot of importance in the Rig Veda and is always associated with spiritual experiences, ecstacy, upliftment, communion with the gods, etc, it is praised repetitivley. Soma the drink was obviously a drug which effected the brain. Soma effectivley is dopamine and endorphins. Whenever we have spiritual experiences, bliss, rapture, peace, communion etc we have dopamine in high amounts in the brain - anything we think or feel is associated with activity in the brain, including spiritual experiences.

Dopamine and endorphines are hormones which can effect our whole bodies via our endocrine system which is part of our chakra system.
Whenever people read the chakra system being discussed in archaic yogic literature they always interpret it as reffering to subtle energy, amrita is interpreted as being some sort of subtle energy substance. But chakras are not just subtle energy, they are nerve plexuses, muscular and circulatory centres and endocrine glands.
Suprisingly I haven't seen soma being associated or equated with dopamine anhywhere. Even a google search didn't turn anything up. So please discuss what you think of these ideas.

Tirisilex
09 November 2009, 03:47 PM
I have quite an interest in this and some experiences to share.. First I'd like to explain that I hear voices (and yes I have seen and have been seeing a doctor.) I was speaking to this one voice and whenever I said said "enter" to it. It would fill me up with pleasure originating behind the naval area. But this voice then got demanding asking for tribute by having me doing wrongful deeds. I refused and so this voice left and I haven't felt that wonderful feeling again.. The last time I felt it my entire body was pulsating with pleasure and I got scared because my heart was beating hard along with it. I managed to shake it off and that was the last time I felt it.. Then about a little over a year ago I was trying new meds and I was exploring my senses when I took a swallow of saliva and was transformed into something wonderful.. I felt pleasure follow the path of saliva down my esophagus. I thought to myself that soma must be like that.. Just a little saliva did that I cant imagine full gulp. Unfortunately that never happened again. I would LOVE to experience these things again but I don't know how to..

atanu
21 November 2009, 03:32 AM
Soma is the mind altering sacrament taken by the sages who authored the Rig Veda and praised it in its hymns.
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Soma effectivley is dopamine and endorphins.

Hello,

Buy a vial of dopamine and observe whether it has any bliss in it or not? Do you mean to say that Vedic sages termed dopamine as The King? Yoga with Soma may release a lot of chemicals as consequence of bliss incomparable but how those chemicals become Soma? Are you not the same person who rubbishes Hindu scriptures?

RV Book 1. HYMN XCI Soma.

1. Thou, Soma, art preeminent for wisdom; along the straightest path thou art our leader. Our wise forefathers by thy guidance, Indu, dealt out among the Gods their share of treasure.
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5 Thou, Soma, art the Lord of heroes, King, yea, Vrtra-slayer thou: Thou art auspicious energy.
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22 These herbs, these milch-kine, and these running waters, all these, O Soma, thou hast generated. The spacious firmament bast thou expanded, and with the light thou hast dispelled the darkness.

Om Namah Shivaya

Ekanta
21 November 2009, 04:10 AM
I must share this quote by Sathya Sai Baba I found some time ago on this matter. To me it makes much sense:

"An important rite in the Vedic Yajna is called soma-pa. In order to grasp the tuner significance of the Vedic or other ceremonials, one has to spend some thought on symbolism. For example, let us take this Soma-pa itself. Pa means 'drinking' and the rite is generally supposed to indicate the drinking of a juice called soma.
No! Soma means the Moon; and the Moon cannot be swallowed or drunk by man. It also means the 'mind' - "the changing mind that waxes and wanes, is never the same for long," That is why the Vedas say that the mind was mothered by the Moon. So, drinking the Moon means the process by which the mind is controlled, made defunct and harmless. That is the purpose of the Yajna - the sacrifice of the whims of the mind for gaining the realm of the Universal Eternal Truth. With the mind left intact, no Yajna is fruitful, for it has a thousand tricks by which it can drag you into perdition." (sss12-21)

rainycity
07 April 2010, 10:03 PM
Hello,

Buy a vial of dopamine and observe whether it has any bliss in it or not?

hello, bliss is a personal feeling that you can't observe in a vial of dopamine unless you take it and feel bliss. In other words bliss is a subjective experience and you can't observe it objectivley in a vial of dopamine.



Do you mean to say that Vedic sages termed dopamine as The King?

I understand that soma is a deva in the veda, but in my opinion its clear that soma was also an actual drink which the bards took. Just like agni is both a deva, and fire the physical phenomena.



Yoga with Soma may release a lot of chemicals as consequence of bliss incomparable but how those chemicals become Soma?

We can't separate any feeling we have from chemical processes in our brains. Those chemicals allow us to think and feel. That doesn't mean our experience of our thoughts and feelings isn't real, or that there aren't other energies involved, but our minds and our bodies are one. And if we have subtle bodies then they are also one and one with our minds and bodies. Our whole being is one just like our body has many systems and layers, skeletal, muscular, circulatory, nervous and so on, but these aren't separate but all one body. Nothing is separate from anything else, and everything exists in relation to everything else. Our body is not separate from this material world and so our senses and awareness of this material world must be material or have a material basis.

amra
08 April 2010, 04:51 AM
"Our body is not separate from this material world and so our senses and awareness of this material world must be material or have a material basis."

I am sorry but this comment is absurd. Awareness does not arise from matter, but matter arises from or in 'awareness'. PLease consider the 25 tattvas of Sankhya -matter originates in spirit- . Also in your first post you have stated that the physical structure of our body is the equivalent to the chakra system. This is a mistake. The subtle moves the gross, the physical bodily functions are not the causes of our emotions and feelings. Rather emotions feelings and thoughts affect our physical bodies. Attempting to graft a subtle physiology onto a gross physical physiology is a terrible mistake and a very bad insult. Also thinking Soma is going to be found in a physical cause is reverse backward thinking. You are inside out my friend. Soma may have had many different physical forms depending on the vehicle it preffered. My advice to you is leave this stuff alone because i find your posts insulting.

smaranam
08 April 2010, 09:12 AM
We can't separate any feeling we have from chemical processes in our brains. Those chemicals allow us to think and feel. That doesn't mean our experience of our thoughts and feelings isn't real, or that there aren't other energies involved, but our minds and our bodies are one. And if we have subtle bodies then they are also one and one with our minds and bodies. Our whole being is one just like our body has many systems and layers, skeletal, muscular, circulatory, nervous and so on, but these aren't separate but all one body. Nothing is separate from anything else, and everything exists in relation to everything else. Our body is not separate from this material world and so our senses and awareness of this material world must be material or have a material basis.

Namaste

We are mixing up the result with the cause, and that too some very trivial temporary results.
Material phenomenon does not come from material.

Behind brain activity and release of chemicals, is an ultimate cause, sarva kAraNa kAraNam - cause of all causes, that transcends all temporary, fleeting or illusory secondary causes - like a drink.


I would LOVE to experience these things again but I don't know how to..

Those who get engrossed , lost in this Ultimate Cause, care the least for any temporary ecstatic feelings.

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KRSNa's own words : Bhagavad Gita :

BG 10.4-5: Intelligence, knowledge, freedom from doubt and delusion, forgiveness, truthfulness, control of the senses, control of the mind, happiness and distress, birth, death, fear, fearlessness, nonviolence, equanimity, satisfaction, austerity, charity, fame and infamy — all these various qualities of living beings are created by Me alone.

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Śrī Brahma-saḿhitā 5.1
īśvaraḥ paramaḥ kṛṣṇaḥ
sac-cid-ānanda-vigrahaḥ
anādir ādir govindaḥ
sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam
Kṛṣṇa who is known as Govinda is the Supreme Godhead. He has an eternal blissful spiritual body - sacchidananda vigraha. He is the origin of all . He - Govinda, has no other origin (anadir- adir) and He is the prime cause of all causes (sarva-kāraṇa-kāraṇam).

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BG 2.42-43: Men of small knowledge are very much attached to the flowery words of the Vedas, which recommend various fruitive activities for elevation to heavenly planets, resultant good birth, power, and so forth. Being desirous of sense gratification and opulent life, they say that there is nothing more than this.
***** This refers to the fruitive activities recommended in the karma-kāṇḍa portions of the Vedas. Vedas are (1) karma-kAnda (2) jnAna kAnda, and jnAna shows the purpose of karma-kAnda, so the msg : do not be attached to karma-kAnda and its rewards.

BG 2.44: In the minds of those who are too attached to sense enjoyment and material opulence, and who are bewildered by such things, the resolute determination for devotion, meditation and Samadhi of the Divine does not manifest.

BG 2.45: The Vedas deal mainly with the subject of the three modes of material nature. O Arjuna, become transcendental to these three modes. Be free from all dualities and from all anxieties for gain and safety, and be established in the self.

BG 2.46: All purposes served by a small well can at once be served by a great reservoir of water. Similarly, all the purposes of the Vedas can be served to one who knows the purpose behind them.

BG 2.47: You have a right to perform your prescribed duty, but you are not entitled to the fruits of action. Never consider yourself the cause of the results of your activities, and never be attached to not doing your duty.

BG 2.48: Perform your duty equipoised, O Arjuna, abandoning all attachment to success or failure. Such equanimity is called yoga.

BG 2.49. Far lower than the Yoga of wisdom is action with a selfish motive, O Arjuna! Seek thou refuge in wisdom; miserly are they whose motive is the fruit.
OR
BG 2.49: O Dhanañjaya, keep all abominable activities far distant by devotional service, and in that consciousness surrender unto the Lord. Those who want to enjoy the fruits of their work are misers.

BG 2.50. Endowed with wisdom (evenness of mind), one casts off in this life both good and evil deeds; therefore, devote thyself to Yoga; Yoga is skill in action.

BG 2.51. The wise, possessed of knowledge, having abandoned the fruits of their actions, and being freed from the fetters of birth, go to the place which is beyond all evil.

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Besides, who knows what else those drinks/drugs whatever they are will do to one's body ? In any case is it not the balance-calmness of serotonin that humanity needs ? Rather than bouts of dopamine ? How do we know Soma is connected specifically to dopamine , and is the same as those modern chemicals ?

Getting attached to the result is like muddy water in a calf's hoofprint compared to the reservoir, river, ocean of sarva kAraNa kAraNam - the cause of all causes, fountainhead of existence, consciousness, bliss.

kd gupta
09 April 2010, 11:31 PM
[quote=smaranam;42713]Namaste

We are mixing up the result with the cause, and that too some very trivial temporary results.
Material phenomenon does not come from material.

Behind brain activity and release of chemicals, is an ultimate cause, sarva kAraNa kAraNam - cause of all causes, that transcends all temporary, fleeting or illusory secondary causes - like a drink.



Very good explanation . In short it can be as
Sura twamasi shushmini Som a esh ma…yaj7/19
Payo dadhih somrupam…..21/19yaj
Som has got it’s own properties , but anything suitable and healthy can also be as useful as som is . Som has also got the adverse properties if not used properly and is termed as sura .
the Vedmantra…Aum kratam smar , klibe smar , krato smar .
This is very important to follow this mantra . The human has been termed as klibe means as immature as wet earth . If the human follows the som properties , he becomes sur or noble[ krato] and if not follows he becomes asur or demon [kratam ] .
Goswamiji termed Ravna as asur and Vibhison as sur, both being from same family but following Wisdom at Diversion and Devotion path respectively . See…
Ravna says….
If therefore
the Lord Himself, the Delighter of the gods and the Reliever of Earth.s burden, has
appeared on earth, I will go and resolutely fight with him and cross the ocean of mundane
existence by falling to His arrows. Adoration is out of question in this (demoniac) body,
which is made up of the principle of ignorance, Tamasa.
Vibhison says….
.My lord, I am Ravna.s brother. Having been born
in the demon race. O Protector of gods, my body has the element of Tamas (inertia and
ignorance) preponderating in it and I have a natural affinity for sins even as an owl is fond
of darkness.
.Having heard with my own ears of Your fair renown I have come to You with the
belief that my lord (You) dissipates the fear of rebirth. Save me, save me, O Hero of
Raghu.s line, reliever of distress, delighter of those who take refuge in you..

In gita krsn first addresses arjun as klebya and after speaking gita ,as sur .

rainycity
10 April 2010, 01:06 AM
"Our body is not separate from this material world and so our senses and awareness of this material world must be material or have a material basis."

I am sorry but this comment is absurd.

Why is it absurd? Our body is not separate from the rest of the world, it is made up of the same chemicals, molecules and atoms as everything else. Our senses are a part of our bodies and are made up of the same stuff as sense objects.



Awareness does not arise from matter,

Our awareness is not separate from matter. Our awareness has its basis in the chemicals and electrical impulses of our brains and nervous systems. Without your eyes or the visual centre of your brain you don't have visual awareness. Without your nervous system you don't have tactile awareness of your body. Every aspect of our awareness has a proven basis in our brains and our nervous systems, which in turn have their basis in our environment.



but matter arises from or in 'awareness'.

If this is true, why can't the opposite also be true? I don't see how it can't be. How can my awareness of my body and my physical environment not arise from my body and my physical environment?



Also in your first post you have stated that the physical structure of our body is the equivalent to the chakra system. This is a mistake.

Why? aren't our chakras located in our bodies and aligned along our spinal axis? When we perceive a centre in our body, how could we be doing that without using our physical body? Our nervous system gives us our spatial awareness of our body.




The subtle moves the gross, the physical bodily functions are not the causes of our emotions and feelings.

Our physical bodily functions are not the causes of our emotions and feelings? Then why is it when you eat you feel full, or when something hits you, you feel pain? Why do feelings of pleasure correspond exactly to the release of chemicals such as dopamine? Why do your emotions and feelings correspond exactly to physiological processes in your brain and nervous system?



Rather emotions feelings and thoughts affect our physical bodies.

That's true, but they also arise from our physical bodies.



Attempting to graft a subtle physiology onto a gross physical physiology is a terrible mistake and a very bad insult.

Then why is the chakra system represented as aligning to your physical physiology?

amra
13 May 2010, 05:41 AM
The release of chemicals, inside the body due to an external shock, causing a feeling like pain, are released into the body by an awareness of an event. The awareness of the event, that comes from outside the body is the cause of the release of certain chemicals inside the body. These chemicals are released because the individual perceives an event or has an experience. Her psyche interprets the event in a particular way due to its conditioning and as a result of this reaction certain chemicals are released.

This is why certain yogic practices actually alter body chemistry. But this is only possible if a person has psychic power. Without psychic power a person is a non-entity batted about by the winds of external occurences, having no strong center to withstand the outer influences of sense objects. Naturally such a weak person would come to believe that his emotional internal responses are out of his own control and due to some mystical chemical processes that cause all his states of consciousness or unconsciousness.