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Eastern Mind
12 October 2009, 08:56 AM
We all know Hinduism has morals, as do all other religions. I'm going to post (others can too, of course) hypothetical moral dilemmas, and then from the Hindu perspective, we can discuss what the dharmic action would be. Hopefully we can have some fun.

1) On birth control.... Your daughter (or son) is 14, matured physically, and the hormones are raging. She/he comes home and announces that she/he has a boyfriend/girlfriend. At this point he/she is not on any birth control. You sense by his/her giddiness that the situation may be on the point of becoming sexually active, even though you would stand against it. You'd like to lock the kid in her/his room for the next 6 years, but realise that that is illegal. Your community has a wide range of people, class, and opportunity. What do you say to the teenager, and what actions do you take, if any?

Aum Namasivaya

LALKAR
12 October 2009, 11:55 AM
Namaste Eastern Mind

This is a serious problem now Elders have to try to make younger generation as Dharmic

It is better to teach them during their childhood than worring later

Eastern Mind
12 October 2009, 12:23 PM
Namaste Eastern Mind

This is a serious problem now Elders have to try to make younger generation as Dharmic

It is better to teach them during their childhood than worring later

Yes, I know, but what would you do?

Aum Namasivaya

devotee
12 October 2009, 09:35 PM
Namaste EM,

The Indian culture and the western culture are widely different. The problem is much less in India because the society is like that. There is no peer pressure here to have a boyfriend or to have pre-marital sexual experience. In fact it is just the opposite. Teachers, parents & society in general keep a watch on children whenever two of different sexes meet. Though western culture is slowly affecting every one's mind & taking its toll & there is a need to discuss these issues with children before it is too late. I have a daughter of 17 years & I can share my experience :

It helps to get down from the high pedestal of a parent & be a friend. They must have faith that they can discuss anything with their parents including matters related with sex. However, even if you are friendly & all but the children won't like to share many things ... in that case there is a need to keep a watch on their friends. Regarding possible harm due to sexual attraction & indulging in actual sexual activity by force or due to ignorance ... normally I tell them real life stories from my experiences when we were of the age of our children. It is required to be told to children that all attraction towards opposite sex is because of chemicals which are very much active at this stage ... but they should not forget that though the body is ready for sex ... the need is to understand what separates a person who fails from a person who succeed ... careless attraction may lead to failure in studies, career, unwanted pregnancy, diseases, psychological turmoil which may further lead to despair etc.. etc. Life is for living ... but the intelligent ones do everything at the right time. Sex is not bad because it is basis of the whole creation ... but it can make your life hell if you are not careful. Once must learn the art of living for living a meaningful & enjoyable life.

EM, you being a teacher, can explain things better. I don't think I need to tell anything more. You can also share your views & experience as you also have a daughter.

OM

Star
13 October 2009, 02:02 AM
Namaste,

I do quite wish Western culture was more like the Indian one... Having said that, my parents don't seem to be quite as "open" in that aspect with me, I don't know if it's due to Catholic religion, or me being in a Medical degree and they'd think I know "all about it", or it's just them... My mother (or father for that matter, or anyone else) never had "a talk" with me about boyfriends, sexual matters, or anything as such. In fact, I was so scared of the whole subject I never told them about any boyfriends until recently (a few months ago I told her about my current boyfriend, only because him and I are very committed...and actually, I was so scared to tell her myself I asked my sister to do it for me!). I spent the whole Summer at his parents' house and she didn't have "a talk" with me about it or anything. Though I suppose it'd be a bit late to start having those "talks" now I'm 20...

My first point was that I wished people here were like in India. I'm somewhat ashamed of myself but I've only recently embraced Sanatana Dharma, and while I was walking around "lost" I did "lose my virginity" at 17 (which still seems to be a lot older than most Western girls... :S) and had four "sexual partners", all of which ended up abusing me mentally (and two of them even physically). If culture here was anything like in India, chances are I would've never have to go through this.

I haven't done anything as such (sexually I mean) since I found Sanatana Dharma and Lord Ganesha (or rather, since they found me...), but sometimes I do feel very very guilty and ashamed of the past, though I suppose it's not changeable now... Which reminds me, do have any suggestions as to how one could attain "purity" from such previous deeds? Like I said, I don't do anything like that anymore, it's just the past that keeps bothering me...

I apologise if I went slightly off-topic, hopefully the experience of a Western girl is somewhat useful in this context though.

devotee
13 October 2009, 06:04 AM
do have any suggestions as to how one could attain "purity" from such previous deeds?

Yes, by keeping your vow to keep your thoughts clean now onwards & not repenting on past or carrying any guilt over whatever happened ! Lead a disciplined life & achieve success in your career & in your spiritual life.

OM

Eastern Mind
13 October 2009, 08:17 AM
Namaste Star and devotee:

Devotee: I'm not so sure if India is all that different. Take a look at this.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/6901127.stm

Like I said, I'm really not sure. All the research I just did showed significant differences from place to place within India. On my trip I also had the chance to speak with a young lady in her 20s. She told of the generation gap we experienced here as well. At her college she said there was a lot of promiscuity and secret abortion as a result. But all the 'kids' were able to put on the show for their parents. In other words, many parents went about their business being either naive, or unwilling to talk openly about it. The kids were scared to confess anything for fear of being cast out, shunned , disgraced by family, or worse. The young adults, meanwhile lived a double life. She also told us of a particular high addiction rate to benzodiazepams because of this stress. Here, valium is a prescription med, and although it is in India as well, most if not all pharmacies will sell it anyway, just for the business.

So as I said, I'm really not sure. BBC and other western researchers may very well have a hidden agenda to portray India in a bad light. I suspect some of each. Certainly there is an unwillingness to talk about it, even coming from the government. That doesn't work. There is a school district in Texas that has "Just say no!" and abstinence only as a policy for instruction. It is in a Christian conservative right wing area. By no coincidence, the same school district has the highest pregnancey rate of all in the US.

In your personal case, it's clear that you want open communication. That was always my technique as well, although it certainly wasn't always successful. BTW, we have 5 kids. Still kids (adults now) and I can communicate. But the advantage for most here in the west is that there is less of a generation gap now. We went through what Star went through as young adults too. But what Devotee said basically is the sex ed ucation presented in most schools here. Except that we also go into topics like 'how to wear a condom' homosexuality, and the like, moreso in older grades. Teachers use the 'question box' technique.

Star: Your situation is typical or maybe even better than most. Most wise people not hardened by traditions would have a 'forgive and forget' attitude. You are where you are now. Its water under the bridge so to speak. At least that's my opinion.

Aum Namasivaya

devotee
13 October 2009, 09:23 AM
EM,

Always take these news pith a pinch of salt ! :) If the news is not juicy who will buy that ??

I have also spent my school & college days in India & what I am saying is the truth. Regarding the lady in question, let me clarify that there is lot of diversity within India. Some people are just too rich & have adopted completely western culture. The children of this society go to schools & colleges which an ordinary Indian can only dream of. These colleges are (in)famous for such things (mostly in Delhi & Bombay) ... but they don't represent Indian society at large. The parents of those children themselves lead a life which is more like the western countries, so the children would certainly learn what their parents do.

Till I was not posted in Assam (North-eastern part of India), I had a picture of a place where everyday bomb-blast was taking place & it was difficult to imagine that people would be leading a normal life there. However, when I was posted in Assam, I found that though there were disturbances but the life was good. I stayed in Assam for more than 14 years because it offered us much rich quality of life !

If you go by the news on India in the West, you must be having a picture that India is a land of snake-charmers, magicians & mystics only ! That picture is hardly even a tiny part of real India !

OM

Star
13 October 2009, 10:21 AM
Thank you Devotee and EM for your wise advice as per usual. :)

ScottMalaysia
13 October 2009, 11:15 AM
I would explain to him/her all the problems of premarital sexual relations, possibly quoting from Subramuniyaswami's works. I'd explain how you should stay pure for the one that you're going to marry. However, I would leave the decision up to them. I'd say "It's up to you to choose. I can't make the choice for you - only you can".

Eastern Mind
13 October 2009, 11:17 AM
EM,

Always take these news pith a pinch of salt ! :) If the news is not juicy who will buy that ??

I have also spent my school & college days in India & what I am saying is the truth. Regarding the lady in question, let me clarify that there is lot of diversity within India. Some people are just too rich & have adopted completely western culture.


If you go by the news on India in the West, you must be having a picture that India is a land of snake-charmers, magicians & mystics only ! That picture is hardly even a tiny part of real India !

OM


lol ... Namaste Devotee: Yes I am aware of the western press about India. The biggest misunderstanding is that they portray it as one culture, and fail to see the rich diversity you alluded to. In fact, I've even heard, "Do they speak Indian?"

When I googled "India + abortion" and "India + AIDS" they presented two charts, one by raw numbers, and the other by percentage of the whole population. Obviously the second method holds statistical relevance much more than the first, and indeed India was very low (better) in this regard.

But I also know some very traditional Hindus (mostly Tamil) here who are indeed quite oblivious to what their kids are up to. At least they know how to 'put on the show' if they aren't oblivious. I know what their kids are up to because of my own kids interactions with them. All in all, though, they are still better off as a culture, than the western non-culture.

But back to the original question, I'd be encouraging the child to get on birth control. My 18 year old daughter (we have 5 kids, 2M, and 3F) has a friend from an Eastern European culture (Polish) whose Mom is so traditional she just can't get past that the daughter might be 'foolin' around. My own daughter has been trying to get her friend on the pill for quite some time now with little success. I see an unwanted pregnancy coming.

In the end, all circumstances are individual.

BTW, the person in India I was talking to was from a town in TN, not Bombay, or Delhi.

Aum Namasivaya

atanu
14 October 2009, 01:24 AM
Namaste,


----but I've only recently embraced Sanatana Dharma, and while I was walking around "lost" I did "lose my virginity" at 17 (which still seems to be a lot older than most Western girls... :S) and had four "sexual partners", all of which ended up abusing me mentally (and two of them even physically). If culture here was anything like in India, chances are I would've never have to go through this.

I haven't done anything as such (sexually I mean) since I found Sanatana Dharma and Lord Ganesha (or rather, since they found me...), but sometimes I do feel very very guilty and ashamed of the past, ------

I apologise if I went slightly off-topic, hopefully the experience of a Western girl is somewhat useful in this context though.

Namaste Star and all others,

I can fully empathise with such situations. Probably every one has gone through analogous situtations, not necessarily identical. Only on afterthought such tangles are found distatsteful or as grave mistake or as sin etc. One says to oneself "I should not have done this and done that ---".

Just as one can do nothing to come out of the horror dreams, similarly while a bad situation is on, often one does not even recognise that the situation is bad.

I know great gurus give shelter to most horrible sinners just as Shiva is refuge for most demons and sinners.
--------------------------
My daughter is of your age and she gives us some intense tense times. I just pray that may all be able to remember Good Lord, even while engaged in spending up their karma. I also occassionally tell my daughter to always remember the sweet Lord and also remember that nothing else is sweeter. Sometimes she takes the advice and sometimes she does not. I suppose, it takes time to truly realise that anything that is worth clinging to is worth because of the Self only. But, I know that I have my own great weaknesses and slip more often than others.

It is said that for true Shiva Bhaktas, ifs and buts cease.

Om Namah Shivaya

TatTvamAsi
14 October 2009, 02:46 AM
Namaste,

Do you really want my opinion on this? :D :D..

Spare the rod and spoil the child!!

hahahhahah....

Seriously, if the child has been taught from a young age about discretion, he will make the right decision.

Namaskar.

eriko
17 October 2009, 07:35 AM
This a big misconception about Indian kids not having bf/gf. And Indians too loose their virginity at the age of fourteen-thirteen. But of course the number of people doing it is compratively less than those in the West. But that does not mean that this doesn't happen.

And what more because of parental pressure (neighbours, teachers ect) they lie. And then in front of parents everyone is like, "Oh we are so innocent."

As for the "talk" I myself started discussing things with my parents. What do you expect I needed to know the stuff. But of course my Dad was like, "You embarras me a lot." Yeah poor Daddy.

And as for the child. Disown him or her maybe.

Eastern Mind
17 October 2009, 09:19 AM
This a big misconception about Indian kids not having bf/gf. And Indians too loose their virginity at the age of fourteen-thirteen. But of course the number of people doing it is compratively less than those in the West. But that does not mean that this doesn't happen.

And what more because of parental pressure (neighbours, teachers ect) they lie. And then in front of parents everyone is like, "Oh we are so innocent."

As for the "talk" I myself started discussing things with my parents. What do you expect I needed to know the stuff. But of course my Dad was like, "You embarras me a lot." Yeah poor Daddy.

And as for the child. Disown him or her maybe.

Thank you for posting this. I am curious. What is the sex education like in Indian's school system? There is increasing evidence that sex ed reduces or at least has little impact on teenage pregnancy, which is at least contrary to the 'traditional ' view. I'm glad you personally started asking your parents. I remember the first time I taught sex ed to older teenagers about 25 years ago. I really could not believe the misconceptions some students had.

Link to one study... http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/03/080319151225.htm

It seems to me the McAuley (sp?) age is still not over in India.

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
20 October 2009, 11:37 AM
I remembered something after showing my wife this post.

There is a book available here in Malaysia called "The Ideal Hindu Wedding". It contains the translation of the wedding mantra recited by the bride's father. Part of it reads "I offer my virgin daughter to be your wife". What would happen if the bride and groom had already had sexual relations with each other before the marriage? Would the mantra be changed or not?

rainycity
23 October 2009, 06:27 AM
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