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Abominable Snowman
24 October 2009, 03:58 PM
Is it a requirement to have a guru? Is it necessary? I have practiced for years without one and recently I have been wondering this. If it is required to have a guru, do they have to be from your tradition? Do they have to be living? Or is it possible to follow a dead guru?

Thank you.

Harjas Kaur
24 October 2009, 04:52 PM
You will get far by practicing and studying on your own and trying to live the life of a spiritual person, but without a Guru you cannot attain the final goal.

You can run out and attach yourself to any Guru you choose from any tradition. But if it's not the Guru sent to you by God, you will not progress.

Anyone can claim to be a Guru, even be famous and have massive following. But a true Guru, is a very rare thing. Even a true Guru may not be "your" Guru.

There's a saying, "When the student is ready the teacher appears." So, in a sense, the Guru finds you. Usually a series of unusual coincidences will lead to finding a Guru. Your life might make a 180 degree u-turn to get there. Just be open.

A Guru who has died and is not in form can still guide. But to obtain transmission of the teachings, you have to be initiated by a living Master.

Pray, and fervently ask the God to bring your Guru. Pray to your Guru to manifest himself/herself so you can dedicate your life to Guru's teachings. Because all the world is filled with wonderful teachings. But none are so beautiful and so clear as your own Gurudev's teachings, even if he/she teaches in silence.

~Om Namah Shivayah

Eastern Mind
24 October 2009, 04:59 PM
Is it a requirement to have a guru? Is it necessary? I have practiced for years without one and recently I have been wondering this. If it is required to have a guru, do they have to be from your tradition? Do they have to be living? Or is it possible to follow a dead guru?

Thank you.

There are a lot of differences of opinion in this area. Hinduism is vast. Please understand what I say is my view only, not necessarily representative of Hinduism as a whole. Many say that the tradition is for the Guru to initiate the process, not the disciple. In other words, the Guru finds you, not the other way around. And the relationship is personal. In other words, He or she would know you by name. In this sense, it would be nigh impossible to follow a dead Guru unless He or She appeared to you in clear mystic visions (as opposed to foggy dreams). But this level of mysticism is very high.

However, in common practice, people do claim to have a Guru, or follow a certain line of teaching. Christians, for example, follow Christ, who has apparently been dead for some time. Many Hindus might similarly say that they follow the teachings of Sri Ramakrishna, or Yogananda, or Ramana Maharshi.

There is no requirement to have a guru at beginning stages of yoga, but as we progress, the Guru is there to guide us in the right direction, to remain steadfast in dharma, and not get subjected to side paths as it were. Suppose you have some disturbing or questionable experiences in meditation. A proper Guru who has experienced the same thing can tell you the mystic truth of what just occurred.

It would seem to me that a Guru would be best from your own tradition, yes. Would you get a Spanish expert to teach you French?

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
24 October 2009, 05:35 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Perhaps Mr. Snowman may find this post of use:

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3377

praṇām

Abominable Snowman
24 October 2009, 11:17 PM
There is no requirement to have a guru at beginning stages of yoga, but as we progress, the Guru is there to guide us in the right direction, to remain steadfast in dharma, and not get subjected to side paths as it were. Suppose you have some disturbing or questionable experiences in meditation. A proper Guru who has experienced the same thing can tell you the mystic truth of what just occurred.

That is what I want. I have been practicing/living the dharma for 10 years now and I want to advance beyond the beginning stages and begin to move on to more advanced and deeper study, which is why I would like to get into contact witha guru (Goddess willing) so that I can begin to advance with a proper guide who can help me.

I feel like I've had enough milk, where is the whiskey.


It would seem to me that a Guru would be best from your own tradition, yes. Would you get a Spanish expert to teach you French?


Good point.

I ask the "following dead gurus," question because in Shi'a Islam they are to pick and follow a living Imam as their marja, like for example Imam Khameini or Imam Sistani and I was wondering if the tradition of the guru in Hinduism was perhaps similiar or something.

saidevo
25 October 2009, 12:07 AM
hmm... 'Abominable Snowman' as the user id, 'dude' as the way to address colleagues in the forum, the reference to a 'dead guru' (a guru or for that matter no one is ever dead), and the desire to progress from 'milk to whiskey'!

You have a long way to go, kid, to even get into the right frame of mind about your practice, let alone anticipate a guru. TatTvamAsi, would you like to advice this young man?

Harjas Kaur
25 October 2009, 02:47 AM
Haha, this was so great I had to send you a PM, "dude." Check it out!

I'm laughing because Guru is so powerful that He/She can draw the most amazing people to God, myself included, at exactly the level they are at and help lift us upwards. God does not discriminate at anyone's level of development. And without Guru I am a terrible paapi with no direction at all.

Never stop looking for Guru. Make that your whole life's focus.



/Namaskar to the Divine present in all true Gurus who uplift the world

kd gupta
25 October 2009, 08:02 AM
Dear old man , you are not so young as you say .I think Death is a proper Guru for you therefore remember this Vedmantra….

Krato smar…or don’t cheat your own God and be happy .

Eastern Mind
25 October 2009, 08:08 AM
That is what I want. I have been practicing/living the dharma for 10 years now and I want to advance beyond the beginning stages and begin to move on to more advanced and deeper study, which is why I would like to get into contact witha guru (Goddess willing) so that I can begin to advance with a proper guide who can help me.

I feel like I've had enough milk, where is the whiskey.



Good point.

I ask the "following dead gurus," question because in Shi'a Islam they are to pick and follow a living Imam as their marja, like for example Imam Khameini or Imam Sistani and I was wondering if the tradition of the guru in Hinduism was perhaps similiar or something.

Although I do have a Guru (who more or less picked me) I don't feel the need for this type of deeper relationship, for I am still doing karma yoga, with a little bhakti thrown in here and there. I've been practising Sanatana Dharma since I was 18, or 38 years now. There is no hurry here. This is not a one shot effort, for we do believe in a second and third and even endless more attempts. Impatience with yourself will result in disappointment.

The beginning is to get firmly up to the muladhara chakra. In order for this to happen, we have to be firmly established in the yamas and niyamas, the classic yogic restraints and observances. Besides that, most traditional Gurus would say one has to be celibate.

Having said all this, anyone is clear to believe differently within Hinduism's vastness.

Aum Namasivaya

sunyata07
25 October 2009, 10:53 AM
Namaste everyone,



There's a saying, "When the student is ready the teacher appears." So, in a sense, the Guru finds you. Usually a series of unusual coincidences will lead to finding a Guru. Your life might make a 180 degree u-turn to get there. Just be open.


I don't want to read too deeply into this, but in a sense does this old saying "When the student is ready the teacher appears", mean the student will realise that this should be the guru after which he/she should model him/herself? It sounds like to me that a student should try and keep his eyes open anyway. It could be that an individual may not be so lucky as some people, like EM, to have a guru find and engage with them, in which case can the student go looking for a teacher and ask for tutelage?

Also, does anybody know if there are any ways of telling a true, self-realised guru from a fraud? Maybe it's more a matter of intuition and just knowing?

Abominable Snowman
25 October 2009, 11:40 AM
hmm... 'Abominable Snowman' as the user id,

What does this have to do with anything?


'dude' as the way to address colleagues in the forum,

Come on, the title of this thread was meant to be humerous and I was referrencing the film Dude Where's My Car. Would it have been more proper if I had said "ladies and gentle-men of the forum." I didn't know that formality was the norm here.


the reference to a 'dead guru' (a guru or for that matter no one is ever dead),

I think my question was clear.


and the desire to progress from 'milk to whiskey'!

I was speaking poetically. Milk is for the babes, they drink it until they have aged long enough to not need to drink milk. Whiskey is an adult drink. I was simply saying that I feel that I have the basics down and I want to progress further in the dharma, period.


You have a long way to go, kid, to even get into the right frame of mind about your practice, let alone anticipate a guru.


Excuse me sir? I'm a grown ass man, I am by no means a 'kid' and I will not be referred or addressed in such a manner, thank you. My apologies if this post seems hostile however I find your post to be very insulting and condescending.

Eastern Mind
25 October 2009, 11:42 AM
Also, does anybody know if there are any ways of telling a true, self-realised guru from a fraud? Maybe it's more a matter of intuition and just knowing?

Excellent query, and has been asked many times before. As far as I know, there is no way. But yes, for me it is intuition. The siddhi of reading auras would help, but unfortunately most of us don't have that one. Individuals also 'need' different teachings for their own evolution. Different religions even.

I have met people who got nothing from my Guru, which was obviously not the case with me. Sitting in an airport with Him, there are those who walk right by without noticing, and those who would stop and stare, or come over to touch his feet in respect.

There are some Gurus who I personally consider fraudulent, but I would never mention names publicly as that would have the karmic consequence of same on myself or my Guru. Besides, it's just plain rude.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
25 October 2009, 01:08 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


To what do we owe the contact of a bonifide guru?

puṇya - right , virtuous , meritorious behavior
chance
grace (anugraha- favour , kindness) of Īśvara the Lord, the Divine with form - saguṇa-brahman
the anugraha (grace) of ātmā one is in search of - as the upaniṣads say the Self shows itSelf to itSelf.To this I say I do not know... What I do know is to prepare, or be prepared. I have been taught to 'deserve then desire'. Then one is ready.
And Kṛṣṇa tells us (Bhāgavad gītā 2.40) that 'no effort is ever lost in this yoga'.

praṇām

Eastern Mind
25 October 2009, 05:45 PM
What does this have to do with anything?

Come on, the title of this thread was meant to be humerous and I was referrencing the film Dude Where's My Car. Would it have been more proper if I had said "ladies and gentle-men of the forum." I didn't know that formality was the norm here.

I think my question was clear.

I was speaking poetically. Milk is for the babes, they drink it until they have aged long enough to not need to drink milk. Whiskey is an adult drink. I was simply saying that I feel that I have the basics down and I want to progress further in the dharma, period.

Excuse me sir? I'm a grown ass man, I am by no means a 'kid' and I will not be referred or addressed in such a manner, thank you. My apologies if this post seems hostile however I find your post to be very insulting and condescending.


Namaste Abominable:

There is a lot to learn on these forums, from a wide variety of people coming from totally different backgrounds, and ages. Quite a few people here are very knowledgable. Please look at a person's age and place for a hint to this. It is doubtful that many Indian born people would catch the reference to 'Dude, where's my car?' In fact, I didn't until you mentioned it. Many posters would have English as their second language, and English idioms or references to pop culture simply won't be understood.

Formality may not be the norm here, but due respect and tolerance is. It is followed by 90% of posters.

As to the reference to whiskey, drinking is outside dharma for most, so that could easily be construed as insulting.

Your response to Saidevo's final post speaks for itself. Controlling of anger or emotion is definitely a yogic principle. Personally, if a poster upsets me, I breathe a bit before I post back, or if after awhile I continue to get flamed back, I just 'give up' on discussion with that person.

I have politely tried to engage you in discussion, as you initially indicated your shyness. Hopefully this shall be taken not as offensive, but as encouraging, for that is my intent.

Aum Namasivaya

DavidC
25 October 2009, 06:09 PM
I agree with the original poster. Duuuude, dude, dude! Where is my guru? Hold on a second--I have to do some chalas to Shiva. Dude, this is so groovyl; I want to go to the Kumbh Mela! Maybe I could have a joint Rasta-Jnana Yoga 'reasoning session' and 'kill the "Buddha" on the road' to the 'banks of the "Ganga."'



You have a long way to go, kid, to even get into the right frame of mind about your practice, let alone anticipate a guru.Excuse me sir? I'm a grown ass man, I am by no means a 'kid' and I will not be referred or addressed in such a manner, thank you. My apologies if this post seems hostile however I find your post to be very insulting and condescending.

According to Socrates & Plato youth lasts until age 30. They were great gurus. Now I wonder what people would think where some may live to 120 or supposedly much longer. From that viewpoint I am a kid.

Abominable Snowman
25 October 2009, 07:24 PM
Namaste


There is a lot to learn on these forums, from a wide variety of people coming from totally different backgrounds, and ages. Quite
a few people here are very knowledgeable. Please look at a person's age and place for a hint to this.

I understand this and I am not being hostile towards her/him or saying that s/he isn't knowledgeable however what I was commenting on is the picking of pieces of my thread/posts and responding to it/me in a insulting/condescending way (atleast that's how it came off to me). I would also like to say that age doesn't necessarily equal wisdom, that is an ageist statement, while I do admit age usually is a good indicator.


It is doubtful that many Indian born people would catch the reference to 'Dude, where's my car?' In fact, I didn't until you mentioned it. Many posters would have English as their second language, and English idioms or references to pop culture simply won't be understood.

I understand this, which is why I explained where I got the idea for the name of my thread. Again I was commenting on how the member seemed to use this as an insult.


As to the reference to whiskey, drinking is outside dharma for most, so that could easily be construed as insulting.

I understand this as well, I know very well that drinking and alcohol is a no-no and if this was insulting then my apologies. Again I was speaking poetically, perhaps it was a mistake. My apologies.

saidevo
25 October 2009, 08:52 PM
namaste Snowman.

IMSO, American slang that smacks of vulgarity and fans the arrogance of ego, should be avoided by everyone who wants to be a seeker through Hinduism. This is the yama--restraint of words of yogic practice that EM referred in one of his posts. Even mental associations with such slang is bound to be hurdles in serious sAdhana--spiritual practice.

You opened a thread on a serious topic in a serious sub forum (you can be quite humourous and rant out in the Canteen forum). You can't deny the distinctive tone of sneer in the the words, phrases and idioms you used repeatedly, even after your initial post was politely replied to. If this sneer was unintentional, it only shows that you are too young.

The word 'kid' also means a young person; I first used the words 'my friend', but then immediately changed it to 'kid' looking at your age; now that we have become friends, I wouldn't use it any more! I used each one of the words and phrases you mentioned as "insulting and condescending" only to indicate the kind of mental frame they highlight, which is not at all suitable for serious yogic practice. I never used any of them as personal references, but if you felt so with any, I am really sorry. My point is, why use words and phrases that are habitual to a person without thinking about their ramifications and then apologize profusely later on?

Finally, I am of course much older than you, but my spiritual knowledge and accomplishments are only sketchy, so age may not be an indicator of wisdom; and as for respect and courtesy, it should be extended to everyone irrespective of age, specially in a Hindu Forum, because as a great subhAShita says

"The wise should honor the proper words even of a child.
Does not a lamp illuminate a place where the sun cannot reach?"

I wish you all the best in your spiritual and worldy pursuits.

Harjas Kaur
25 October 2009, 08:53 PM
I find it somewhat amusing that the people most in need of a Guru as considered as not worthy of having one. What a conundrum! It's like all the tasty things in life are bad for you. And all the medicinal things are, you know medicinal.

What's the point of a Guru only for the people who are already advanced?

Anyway, all views here are containing some sort of truth. As to age, well it's my observation that many white-haired people are profoundly immature. Why I respect the general experience and wisdom of elders, it's not a given that age alone gives you this. But elders should ALWAYS be shown deference and respect.

And as for youth, all brashness and hip hop-ness aside, the atma is still the atma, and it's always longing for its true face in Guru.

No need for any sensitivity, we can be gentle with each other. Even if a rude and unruly child who was behaving badly but still crying after the God, why would anyone discourage? Perhaps we are ashamed of the unruly child within ourselves.

But the unruly child (I'm just illustrating, not saying you are that Snowman), as also the worst sinner, is still beloved of Bhagavan. Is it not so? So grace is the greater factor here which should make us all desire nirmata/humility in that Presence.

Abominable Snowman
25 October 2009, 09:08 PM
IMSO, American slang

Namaste Saidevo.

Are you calling me an American? Those are fighting words good sir. :p

You said that I respond without thinking, this isn't so, perhaps my posts may convey that to you but I assure you this isn't the case. The rest of your post has been duly noted and so has EMs and will be taken into account in my following posts on this forum.

Now, back to the topic. Are you saying that I should not seek out various gurus? What is wrong with this? I don't understand this, it's like having a second volume of a book series and waiting for it to open itself. If I don't seek then how would I honestly come across a guru in Europe or North America?

saidevo
25 October 2009, 09:55 PM
namaste Snowman.

Since I don't have (or seek for now) a guru, I have no firsthand knowledge to answer your questions. However, I understand that there is nothing wrong in seeking one or more gurus--even Yogananda did it, but as the other posters have put it, one must prepare oneself to receive a guru, and when one is ready, the guru would seek the disciple or at least the disciple would readily find a way to his guru.

Bishop CW Leadbeater has some points about the qualities of a guru and what he incurs by choosing a disciple. In his book Masters and the Path, he says:

"A Chela is a person who has offered himself to a master as a pupil to learn practically the hidden mysteries of nature and the psychical powers latent in man. The master who accepts him is called in India a Guru; and the real Guru is always an Adept in the Occult Science. A man of profound knowledge, exoteric and esoteric, especially the latter, and one who has brought his carnal nature under the subjection of the will; who has developed in himself both the power (Siddhi) to control the forces of Nature, and the capacity to probe her secrets by the help of the formerly latent but now active powers of his being-- this is the real Guru." (p.133)

"There is one important fact with which the student should be made acquainted, namely, the enormous, almost limitless, responsibility assumed by the Teacher for the sake of the pupil. From the Gurus of the East who teach openly or secretly, down to the few Kabalists in Western lands who undertake to teach the rudiments of the Sacred Science to their disciples-- those western Hierophants being often themselves ignorant of the danger they incur-- one and all of these Teachers are subject to the same inviolable law. From the moment they begin really to teach, from the instant they confer any power-- whether psychic, mental or physical-- on their pupils, they take upon themselves all the sins of that pupil, in connection with the Occult Sciences, whether of omission or commission, until the moment when initiation makes the pupil a Master and responsible in his turn. . . .Thus it is clear why the Teachers are so reticent, and why chelas are required to serve a seven years' probation to prove their fitness, and develop the qualities necessary to the security of both Master and pupil." (p.224)

By the bye, you don't have to address me as 'sir' or be too formal, so long as you don't use American slang!

TatTvamAsi
26 October 2009, 12:22 PM
The question is not whether it is a requirement to have a guru or not, it is whether you are ready to receive a guru or not. And, as Ramana Maharishi stated, one's guru may be of bodily form, may be of subtler forms, and also may be inside.

A quest to "search for a guru" is more of a search within oneself.

You claim to have practiced Sanatana Dharma for years yet you don't seem to grasp the basic principles. This quest is not like going to the mall and "choosing what you want"! Finding a guru can and in most cases will take several lifetimes of sAdhanA and Sraddha.

This reminds me of my relative's experience in some TM "retreat" in the US. Towards the end of the retreat, during a talk, many in the audience apparently raised their hand and asked, "When will I be enlightened?" And, my relative approached them and said, "As long as you hold on to the "I", there is no enlightenment for you!" This was of course much to the chagrin of the audience, who were mostly westerners. LOL! :D


Is it a requirement to have a guru? Is it necessary? I have practiced for years without one and recently I have been wondering this. If it is required to have a guru, do they have to be from your tradition? Do they have to be living? Or is it possible to follow a dead guru?

Thank you.

Abominable Snowman
26 October 2009, 09:44 PM
The question is not whether it is a requirement to have a guru or not, it is whether you are ready to receive a guru or not. And, as Ramana Maharishi stated, one's guru may be of bodily form, may be of subtler forms, and also may be inside.

A quest to "search for a guru" is more of a search within oneself.

I see, I get that much, what I mainly was wondering is following a guru required, which is not, and whether or not searching for a guru and seeking out contacts is permissible and so forth.


You claim to have practiced Sanatana Dharma for years

I am not claiming anything, I am stating a fact, I accepted the Sanatana Dharma as my religion when I was 13, that's 10 years ago.


yet you don't seem to grasp the basic principles .

Elaborate, which basic principles am I not getting based upon the very few posts I've made here? How can you honestly make such a statement?


This quest is not like going to the mall and "choosing what you want"!

I know, I realize that finding and following a guru is a serious thing however I don't see how I would ever come across one if I don't look and search. Who knows along the way I may meet people who will help me greatly in my understanding and practice of the dharma.


Finding a guru can and in most cases will take several lifetimes of sAdhanA and Sraddha.

I don't doubt this.

Onkara
27 October 2009, 04:31 AM
Namasté
I assume Gurus differ depending on the sect or the school? Would you Mr Snowman, be seeking a Guru that is specific to Shakta and Kali? If so then would that define where you are likely to find a guru and the manner in which to approach him/her?

Are there specific videos (online) or resources from which you have used to guide yourself. You could bring questions you find you are up against to the forum for fresh light?

Forgive the innocence of my question; in my humble opinion I understand that all Gurus would lead their disciple to moksha. Isn’t moksha the ultimate goal in all sects and schools but it is the manner and the terminology which is different?

Abominable Snowman
27 October 2009, 02:05 PM
Namasté
I assume Gurus differ depending on the sect or the school?

I would assume so, though I am not well versed so I may be wrong.


Would you Mr Snowman, be seeking a Guru that is specific to Shakta and Kali?

Maybe not specifically a guru who is also a devotee to Kali but I would like to find a guru who is Shakta.


If so then would that define where you are likely to find a guru and the manner in which to approach him/her?

I would assume so.


Are there specific videos (online) or resources from which you have used to guide yourself. You could bring questions you find you are up against to the forum for fresh light?

I will do so later, yes, I am currently busy at the moment.


Forgive the innocence of my question; in my humble opinion I understand that all Gurus would lead their disciple to moksha. Isn’t moksha the ultimate goal in all sects and schools but it is the manner and the terminology which is different?

True, I am not terribly focused on finding on a guru who is specifically Shakta however like another member pointed out, would you want a French teacher to teach you Spanish? I feel this makes sense.

Eastern Mind
27 October 2009, 05:53 PM
AS : By all means go and look. Go see every Swami that passes through town. Go to India to observe the sadhus. Wander the temples and the markets. Go meet with Bengali people. Try to find a local Bengali group. Reach out. Search. That is the way to find. Do not sit back and think one day a Guru will walk in that door.

Watch for the signs. You already know that your Guru is a Shaktite. There will be many signs along this path. You have to watch with the inner eye.

It is a little like the old story of a guy asking God to win the lottery, and then complaining that God did not let him win. Then he asks God directly, and God says, "But you didn't even buy a ticket."

In the meantime do your sadhana. Become prepared. Then one day, while you are sitting with some swami, He may look at you, and you'll just FEEL it. It'll be so strong that you KNOW. He(or she) will get up and come over to sit with you, or beckon you to come over. Every single word that is uttered from that soul's mouth will make absolute sense. There will be no sense of questioning. It'll just all be blatantly obvious, and you will lay yourself down at the feet of this Master in absolute humility and respect. Then you will have met your Guru. To that point in your life, your life has seemed empty. Now there is reason to continue. The door to the light at the end of the tunnel has been opened. For every step you take toward him, it is His DUTY to take 9 steps towards you.

Aum Saravanabhava

Aum Namasivaya

devotee
27 October 2009, 09:21 PM
Namaste EM,


Then one day, while you are sitting with some swami, He may look at you, and you'll just FEEL it. It'll be so strong that you KNOW. He(or she) will get up and come over to sit with you, or beckon you to come over. Every single word that is uttered from that soul's mouth will make absolute sense. There will be no sense of questioning. It'll just all be blatantly obvious, and you will lay yourself down at the feet of this Master in absolute humillity and respect. Then you will have met your Guru. To that point in your life, your life has seemed empty. Now there is reason to continue. The door to the light at the end of the tunnel has been opened. For every step you take toward him, it is His DUTY to take 9 sateps towards you.


That was quote a powerful expression. You moved me into tears ! :)

OM

sm78
28 October 2009, 03:15 AM
Is it a requirement to have a guru? Is it necessary? I have practiced for years without one and recently I have been wondering this. If it is required to have a guru, do they have to be from your tradition? Do they have to be living? Or is it possible to follow a dead guru?

Thank you.

Study, think, practice, keep the 10 indriyas and the anthakarana catustaya's alert - guidence come from unexpected quarters - in the end I have found that it is *me* who is helping *myself*.

Guru in the sense you mention is required only when you enter mantra sadhana. But this too is over-hyped and taken from books which were written for people in another age. In this age, this does not apply - and one's iSta is one's guru anyway. This is not just my opinion. However do have some upadesa and guidence from competent practioners when starting mantra sadhana.

I have a *dead* guru and I never have felt less guided than one's who had living gurus - simply because I found the potency of things I learnt from a dead guru was many many times what the present living guru's (I know of) could provide. That does not mean I don't look out - I am always on the lookout, for gurus and vidyas which are still beyond my grasp. I have come in contact with persons who have been able to provide some suggestive help, but NOT (yet) another person who could be meditated in the same paduka as my *dead* guru.

Hope this helps.

Harjas Kaur
28 October 2009, 07:00 AM
Guru in the sense you mention is required only when you enter mantra sadhana. But this too is over-hyped and taken from books which were written for people in another age.Like the Vedas, Shastras, Puranas? Oh my!


Guru Paduka Stotram - Adi Shankaracharya
"Facing both God and my Guru, whom shall I bow to first?"
"I first bow to my Guru because He's the one who showed me the path to God." ~Kabir Ji
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YNDxkg1sInc

ਜਿਨੀ ਨਾਮੁ ਪਛਾਣਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਵਿਟਹੁ ਬਲਿ ਜਾਉ ॥
जिनी नामु पछाणिआ तिन विटहु बलि जाउ ॥
Jinī nām pacẖẖāṇi▫ā ṯin vitahu bal jā▫o.
I am a sacrifice to those who recognize the Naam, the Name of the Lord.

ਆਪੁ ਛੋਡਿ ਚਰਣੀ ਲਗਾ ਚਲਾ ਤਿਨ ਕੈ ਭਾਇ ॥
आपु छोडि चरणी लगा चला तिन कै भाइ ॥
Āp cẖẖod cẖarṇī lagā cẖalā ṯin kai bẖā▫e.
Renouncing selfishness, I fall at their feet, and walk in harmony with His Will.
~SGGS Ji ang 30

sm78
28 October 2009, 07:22 AM
Like the Vedas, Shastras, Puranas? Oh my!

No, mantric restrictions are mostly in tantras.

While religions are organized around infallibility of every word of certain book(s) - some common sense suggest that this can only mean mischief and power politics. This includes religions organized around vedas as well, which is the smarta paurohityavada.

Veda, Vedanta, Itihasa, Agama and Tantra (and even puranas and smriti and secular shastras like around music or economics) are of great importance and testimony of our culture - but religious dogma sorrounding these may not be always so.

Good Day.

kd gupta
28 October 2009, 09:22 AM
Is it a requirement to have a guru? Is it necessary? I have practiced for years without one and recently I have been wondering this. If it is required to have a guru, do they have to be from your tradition? Do they have to be living? Or is it possible to follow a dead guru?

Thank you.

So this picture is of late mr. Amrish puri , an actor and actors don’t have their original identity . I don’t know they are celebrities or not but Gurus…no, never .

Abominable Snowman
29 October 2009, 02:25 PM
So this picture is of late mr. Amrish puri , an actor and actors don’t have their original identity .

I'm well aware of this.