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yajvan
26 October 2009, 07:31 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

I wrote in a previous post,



To what do we owe the contact of a bonifide guru?

puṇya - right , virtuous , meritorious behavior
chance
grace (anugraha- favour , kindness) of Īśvara the Lord, the Divine with form - saguṇa-brahman
the anugraha (grace) of ātmā one is in search of - as the upaniṣads say the Self shows itSelf to itSelf.To this I say I do not know... What I do know is to prepare, or be prepared. I have been taught to 'deserve then desire'. Then one is ready.

Does anyone have an opinion or a POV on what is being prepared? What would one do? What would be some of the qualities ( if any) of one ready to meet the giver of light?


praṇām

Harjas Kaur
26 October 2009, 08:49 PM
"Does anyone have an opinion or a POV on what is being prepared? What would one do? What would be some of the qualities ( if any) of one ready to meet the giver of light?"
I believe what is being prepared is our receptivity. The qualities required are surrender.

Without either receptivity or surrender, the Presence of a Satguru will have no effect on one's consciousness. While I have no connection with Iskcon, I do respect their Swami Prabupada and happened to find a quote about guru-chela relationship:

“If you become disobedient to guru, then your business is finished.”(Srila Prabhupada’s Srimad-Bhagavatam Lecture, August 10th, 1974)


ਸਤਗੁਰ ਕੀ ਸੇਵਾ ਗਾਖੜੀ ਸਿਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਆਪੁ ਗਵਾਇ ॥
sathagur kee saevaa gaakharree sir dheejai aap gavaae ||
It is very difficult to serve the True Guru. Surrender your head; give up your selfishness.

ਸਬਦਿ ਮਿਲਹਿ ਤਾ ਹਰਿ ਮਿਲੈ ਸੇਵਾ ਪਵੈ ਸਭ ਥਾਇ ॥
sabadh milehi thaa har milai saevaa pavai sabh thhaae ||
Realizing the Shabad, one meets with the Lord, and all one's service is accepted.

ਪਾਰਸਿ ਪਰਸਿਐ ਪਾਰਸੁ ਹੋਇ ਜੋਤੀ ਜੋਤਿ ਸਮਾਇ ॥
paaras parasiai paaras hoe jothee joth samaae ||
By personally experiencing the Personality of the Guru, one's own personality is uplifted, and one's light merges into the Light.

ਜਿਨ ਕਉ ਪੂਰਬਿ ਲਿਖਿਆ ਤਿਨ ਸਤਗੁਰੁ ਮਿਲਿਆ ਆਇ ॥੪॥
jin ko poorab likhiaa thin sathagur miliaa aae ||4||
Those who have such pre-ordained destiny come to meet the True Guru.
~SGGS Ji ang 27

And very eloquently put from website of Shri Mataji Nirmala Devi, absolutely everything is Gurprasadi, "Guru's grace."



"What can be said about one's Guru? What words can describe His Compassion and Grace, His Parsaad?

A mere side glance of His transform a sinner into a saint. The cool stream of Ganga flowing from His lotus lips destroys the evil of ignorance, washes away the sins of countless lifetimes and ends the burning sorrows of samsaara.

His lotus feet are the one refuge in the many storms of life. They are the mighty boat, which alone can take us across the samsaara saagara, the ocean of transmigration. Even the devtas, the heavenly denizens, cherish the sacred dust of His feet.

How can one describe or even enumerate the infinite glories of the Guru? The Vedas become silent in Their reverence, the Rishis are choked with emotion and the poetic saints are at a loss for words.

Shri Kabirdaas once said, "SUB DHARTI KAAGAZ KARO, LEKHAN SUB BAN RAI, SAAT SAMUDRA KI MASI KARO, GURU GUN LIKHEEYA NA JA-EE. If the entire earth were turned into paper, all the trees in all the world's forests into pens, and all the seven oceans into ink, still they would not suffice for me to write about the glories of my Guru."

Similarly, Shri Guru Nanakji has said: "JE HAU JAANA AAKHA NAAHI, KAHNA KATHAN NA JA-EE. Even if I knew of Him and all His glories, still I would never be able to describe Him, for He is indescribable."

The greatest Parsaad or 'Grace' of the Guru is that Supreme Knowledge, which reveals to us our true infinite nature, shows us our identity with God and destroys all our karmas, the bondage due to the results of actions gathered through millions of lifetimes.

To surrender in devotion at His lotus feet, is the only one direct means of salvation....

"NA GUROH ADHIKAM TATVAM, NA GUROH ADIKHAM TAPAH, TATVA GYAANAAT PARAM NAASTI, TASMAI SHRI GURAVE NAMAH.

There is no reality higher than the Guru, there is no tapas or austerity greater than service to the Guru, there is no knowledge higher than knowledge of the Truth. To that Teacher who is my all, my humble prostrations." http://www.adishakti.org/forum/guru_granth_gurparsaad_2-23-2007.htm

ਜਉ ਤਉ ਪ੍ਰੇਮ ਖੇਲਣ ਕਾ ਚਾਉ ॥
jo tho praem khaelan kaa chaao ||
If you desire to play this game of love with Me,

ਸਿਰੁ ਧਰਿ ਤਲੀ ਗਲੀ ਮੇਰੀ ਆਉ ॥
sir dhhar thalee galee maeree aao ||
then step onto My Path with your head in hand.

ਇਤੁ ਮਾਰਗਿ ਪੈਰੁ ਧਰੀਜੈ ॥
eith maarag pair dhhareejai ||
When you place your feet on this Path,

ਸਿਰੁ ਦੀਜੈ ਕਾਣਿ ਨ ਕੀਜੈ ॥੨੦॥
sir dheejai kaan n keejai ||20||
give Me your head, and do not pay any attention to public opinion. ||20||
~SGGS Ji ang 1412

sunyata07
27 October 2009, 07:53 AM
Namaste Yajvan,

I was actually going to make a similar post about this issue of being "ready" to meet a guru. Thanks for getting one started! I am really looking forward to see what other members of the forum will say about their opinions on this, or their own experiences when they found their teachers.

Harjas Kaur, you make a good point on opening your mind and being receptive to a teacher. Willingness to hear what a guru has to say is just as important as a student's capacity to understand the material. Wouldn't that be the crucial ingredient of any student, whether he is seeking a spiritual guide or is sitting in a classroom in school?

I have often wondered if maybe there should be a focus of karma yoga, or in doing good and kind deeds to help the unfortunate or those who need help. This can be as altruistic as doing volunteering work to feed the homeless and nurse the sick back to health, or as simple as giving an elderly neighbour a hand with the chores. Could this help the aspiring student relinquish all ideas of the ego and work for others and thus better prepare him mentally to receive the benefits of instruction from a guru?

Onkara
27 October 2009, 09:12 AM
I enjoyed the reply by Harjas Ji. I would agree there has to be a sense of receptivity and surrender.

What I would like to add as a side point is that these qualities may come from numerous factors in one’s life experience. For some it could be that their personality already contains the qualities outlined by Harjas and Yajvan above. For others it takes time and life’s lessons.

What I find interesting is that these qualities could also come from negative events in one’s life. Such as not achieving the school grades or job opportunities which one so strongly desired for themselves. It could come from questioning the death of someone close. Or being rejected by a person i.e. a broken heart. It is the lesson that we don’t always get what we want most.

I also feel depression, although very unpleasant for the person suffering, can be a catalyst for spiritual growth. I find this interesting because this idea reminds me that there is no such thing as pure bad luck in the grand scheme of things. “There is a silver lining to every cloud”. It is a reminder that we could be being guided.

As with most catalysts both timing and environment can be crucial. If one comes into contact with a good person or a spiritual Guru at their time of greatest need, then there can a wondrous progress. The individual may look back and think “was that sad person really me?”. That is not to say the individual themselves could start looking alone and make great progress, however the event opens our hearts and makes us receptive to surrender the mundane in reward for Truth, humility and wisdom.

yajvan
27 October 2009, 10:39 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté


Harjas Kaur offers,


I believe what is being prepared is our receptivity. The qualities required are surrender.

Yes, I think receptive + surrender = humble ( nīca ).
I also would think that mumukṣutva would be an important ingredient. This mumukṣutva is the desire of liberation or of final emancipation. Well sure yajvan that makes sense, isn't that the intent for meeting the guru? Here is where I see a difference - one can have a desire for liberation, and one can have the desire of liberation. What is the difference? 'a desire ' is one among many other desires; 'the desire' is the main, focused, consuming desire for this liberation.

The mumukṣu is one who strives for this emancipation ; there is little dabbling or window shopping. Now does that mean one needs to live in a cave, wear robes, various garlands of beads? I think not, but that is my view. It is one of intent. Actions are done to support the advancement of the mumukṣutva focus.

Are there other things? Yes, I think yama and niyama, practiced the best one can would be appropriate. This I believe grooms one in body and mind. Another ? Being simple , keeping life as simple as one can.

Are there others? I think Snip and sunyata07 offers some noble ideas.
I am sure others will cover more qualities and behaviors as they post.

praṇām

devotee
27 October 2009, 09:19 PM
Namaste Yajvan ji,


Here is where I see a difference - one can have a desire for liberation, and one can have the desire of liberation. What is the difference? 'a desire ' is one among many other desires; 'the desire' is the main, focused, consuming desire for this liberation.

Thanks for showing the difference. Now I know, I have still a long way to go before "a" becomes "the" ! :)

OM

yajvan
28 October 2009, 11:38 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté devotee,


Thanks for showing the difference. Now I know, I have still a long way to go before "a" becomes "the" ! :)
OM
I have found 'a' turns to 'the' over time. More and more 'the' days happen to less and less 'a' days when one puts their attention on the matter.
Its like a fire at the edge of a forest. In the beginning a few trees and shrubs are burnt , then the wind (mumukṣutva) picks up. Agni/flame( Divine will) begins to move into the forest (living and life) and the flames consume more and more. What is it consuming? Lesser desires.
While some say 'get rid of desires', a noble act indeed , it is most challenging. Replacing smaller desires with a magnanimous desire may just do the trick. This mumukṣutva becomes Self-propelled over time - Divine Will is working with you.

Now your focus goes from 'a' --> 'the' -->'more'. What is this 'more' ? What more can I do to move the process forward ? becomes in front of one's mind. Hence the 'more then the most' comes in the shape of the guru, IMHO.

Now the 'trick' is not to overdue the 'more' - this pushes you back into thinking that acting/karma/actions is the path to freedom - this only binds more. So the trick ? ~do less~ this is the 'more' part.

praṇām

yajvan
29 October 2009, 10:24 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namasté

Yet no matter how much one prepares or prepares not, no one can predict the grace (anugraha- favour , kindness) of Īśvara the Lord.

By Him He may wish to move one along on the path with the gift of unfoldment or insight. This is this Beings prerogative His svātantrya , complete independent will to do as He pleases.


praṇām

goodlife
29 October 2009, 11:28 AM
Namaste Yajvan ji,



Thanks for showing the difference. Now I know, I have still a long way to go before "a" becomes "the" ! :)

OM

Second That +1

Thanks