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Abominable Snowman
03 November 2009, 05:38 PM
Is there a sect which specifically worships Hanuman as the supreme deity like the Ganapatya do Ganesha? What are they called? What is the history of specific worship of Hanuman? If one become a devotee to Hanuman what specific sect would that fall under? Thank you. :)

devotee
03 November 2009, 10:31 PM
Namaste Snowman,


Is there a sect which specifically worships Hanuman as the supreme deity like the Ganapatya do Ganesha? What are they called? What is the history of specific worship of Hanuman? If one become a devotee to Hanuman what specific sect would that fall under? Thank you. :)

There are millions of Hanuman devotees but I don't think there is any particular sect which does only Hanuman worshipping. The strict Hanuman devotees are highly disciplined & stay away from wine, women & meat. However, Hanuman devotees are basically Vaishnavas & worship Lord Rama, as Hanuman ji is a devotee of Lord Rama.

OM

Abominable Snowman
03 November 2009, 11:20 PM
Namaste Snowman,



There are millions of Hanuman devotees but I don't think there is any particular sect which does only Hanuman worshipping. The strict Hanuman devotees are highly disciplined & stay away from wine, women & meat. However, Hanuman devotees are basically Vaishnavas & worship Lord Rama, as Hanuman ji is a devotee of Lord Rama.

OM

Namaste devotee,

Then what about Hanuman being an avatar of Shiva? Could a devotee of Hanuman also be a Shaivite? Do you have any sources on the worship of Hanuman and so on?

devotee
04 November 2009, 12:22 AM
Namaste Snowman,



Then what about Hanuman being an avatar of Shiva? Could a devotee of Hanuman also be a Shaivite? Do you have any sources on the worship of Hanuman and so on?

He is not exactly avatar of Lord Shiva but he is an incarnation of one of the eleven Rudras who was born to help Sri Vishnu , born as as Rama, to accomplish his task.

Hindus don't normally think in a sectarian way. A normal born Hindu worships all forms of God but may have special inclination to one form. So, I don't know why a Hanuman devotee cannot be a Shiva devotee too. But see, Lord Hanuman cannot be pleased unless you please Lord Rama ... you just cannot separate Hanuman from Rama. So, a Hanuman devotee is by default a Vaishnavite too.

Hanuman is considered a great destroyer of all evils. All evil spirits are afraid of Hanuman. So, whenever anyone is afraid of evil spirits, he chants the name of Hanuman & starts reciting Hanuman ChAlisA (the forty verses in praise of Hanuman). Hanuman is also appeased to grant physical power as he is MaHabali (who is extremely powerful). So the wrestlers normally seek his blessings. On RAmnavami (the birth day of Lord Rama), Hanuman devotees worship Lord Hanuman & Lord Rama with a lot of enthusiasm.

Normally, the devotees recite Hanuman ChAlisa & other bhajans in his praise. He is also worshipped by TAntriks for getting powers against evil spirits.

OM

Abominable Snowman
04 November 2009, 12:51 AM
I see, thank you very much. :)

Eastern Mind
04 November 2009, 06:40 AM
Namaste Snowman,



He is not exactly avatar of Lord Shiva but he is an incarnation of one of the eleven Rudras who was born to help Sri Vishnu , born as as Rama, to accomplish his task.

Hindus don't normally think in a sectarian way. A normal born Hindu worships all forms of God but may have special inclination to one form. So, I don't know why a Hanuman devotee cannot be a Shiva devotee too. But see, Lord Hanuman cannot be pleased unless you please Lord Rama ... you just cannot separate Hanuman from Rama. So, a Hanuman devotee is by default a Vaishnavite too.

Hanuman is considered a great destroyer of all evils. All evil spirits are afraid of Hanuman. So, whenever anyone is afraid of evil spirits, he chants the name of Hanuman & starts reciting Hanuman ChAlisA (the forty verses in praise of Hanuman). Hanuman is also appeased to grant physical power as he is MaHabali (who is extremely powerful). So the wrestlers normally seek his blessings. On RAmnavami (the birth day of Lord Rama), Hanuman devotees worship Lord Hanuman & Lord Rama with a lot of enthusiasm.

Normally, the devotees recite Hanuman ChAlisa & other bhajans in his praise. He is also worshipped by TAntriks for getting powers against evil spirits.

OM

Not that I know anything, but I'd like to add a little of what I have heard. Hanuman is also 'the mover' esoterically of large things. So shippers, people moving homes etc., may invoke this power of His.

Re: "Hindus don't normally think in a sectarian way." I'm not so sure. Certainly some do. My experience has been that most do think in a localised way. So if all the local temples follow a particular sect, then without knowing, a Hindu can be sectarian. An example of this is how Hindus from the north may have never heard of Ayyyapan or Murugan, and those from the south may not know Kali. However, I doubt if there has been any great research on this either way.

And also, the whole concept of Avatar falls into Vaishnavite philosophy, not traditional Saiva philosophy. So anyone who says that is taking their Vaishnava concepts, and applying it across the board. But all this is quite understandable given the diversity and wide expanse of belief.

Aum Namasivaya

devotee
04 November 2009, 07:07 AM
Namaste EM,


Not that I know anything, but I'd like to add a little of what I have heard. Hanuman is also 'the mover' esoterically of large things. So shippers, people moving homes etc., may invoke this power of His.

Yes, you are right. :)


Re: "Hindus don't normally think in a sectarian way." I'm not so sure. Certainly some do. My experience has been that most do think in a localised way. So if all the local temples follow a particular sect, then without knowing, a Hindu can be sectarian. An example of this is how Hindus from the north may have never heard of Ayyyapan or Murugan, and those from the south may not know Kali. However, I doubt if there has been any great research on this either way.

Yes, "certainly some do" ... that is why I used the term, "normally". Actually, it is a very-very small section within the whole Hindu society. I am not talking about the saints who belong to some sect or the other. I am talking about an ordinary, "born" Hindu.

Actually, you are forming your opinion on your experience in your country. The situation in India cannot be compared with what may be there in a foreign country due to various reasons. Just try to have statistics : how many people from North India visit Lord Venkateshwara, how many go to Rameshwaram etc. It is quite a large number & similarly, you may also try to find out how many go to Gaya,Varanasi, Kedar Nath and other religious places every year.

Many people in North may not be aware of Lord Ayappa ... true .... but it is not because they are sectarian in belief ... because it needs a lot of money for travelling to South for a common North Indian. They have not enough time & money to visit the religious places in the North ... how can do so in South ?? If a person is sectarian in belief he will not go to any temple of deity who is not from his sect.

If you don't believe me, I shall tell you one thing. You catch hold of any Hindu in India ... just randomly ... take him to South to any temple of any deity (let us imagine that there is no problem of money or time) ... & see yourself how devotedly he worships the deity he had never heard of before ! And you can repeat the same experiment with a South Indian by taking him to North ... rest assured, the results would be same.

OM

Eastern Mind
04 November 2009, 07:39 AM
Devotee: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif I'm not wishing to argue. I just said I wasn't sure. And my experience is from here, yes. I have met all kinds:

A Tamilian who went to Amarnath
North Indians who adore our South Indian Ganesha temple, etc.

I think places such as Kanya Kumari, Rameswaram, Kasi, Amarnath, Hardwar, are special in that they are pilgrim towns or places. In Rameswaram practically all other states have guest houses for pilgrims, owned by the state governments. So I am saying you are most likely correct. I;m sure in Kasi, withion an hour, you could find 15 different languages being spoken.

On the other hand, as I have mentioned before, I have also met a few people who have said, or would say, "This place is not a real temple." quite emphatically and in a narrow way. Some have even vowed to "Never go there." But hopefully, you are correct, and they are in the minority. But my take has always been not so much sectarian as the cause, but rather political, or linguistic. Certainly there is no denying some southern resentment to the Hindi - isation of India.

Aum Namasivaya

saidevo
04 November 2009, 08:11 AM
HanumAn is a god loved by all Hindus. His image is found in all vaiShNava temples and most shiva temples. Every Hindu sage of whatever religious lineage speak about the glory of HanumAn, who is the emobiment of 'buddhi--intellect, dhairyam--courage, nirbhayatvam--fearlessness, arogata--diseaseless health, ajADyaM--brightness of intellect, and vAkpaTutvaM--eloquence in speech. The following shloka says that he should be remembered, prayed to and worship for these virtues:

buddhirbalaM yasho dhairyaM nirbhayatvamarogatA |
ajADyaM vAkpaTutvaM cha hanUmat smaraNAt bhavet ||

Several images of HanumAn are huge in size, such as the one at NanganallUr, Chennai; NAmakkal, Tamilnadu; PanchavaTi, en route Chennai-Pondicherry where the images are over 40 feet tall and abhiShekams are performed by the priest standing on a three-tier structure. On special and festive occasions related to him, devotees garland him with 'vadAmAlA', while he is always garlanded with tulasimAlA.

Interesting Links:
History of Lord Sri Hanuman
http://www.jayahanuman.org/jayahanuman/history.htm

Hanuman: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanuman
Hanuman temples: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Hanuman_temples

Hanuman World: http://www.hanuman.org/

ScottMalaysia
09 November 2009, 07:35 PM
I was reading about this Hanuman temple (http://mysticaltemplesofmalaysia.blogspot.com/2008/09/arulmigu-sree-veera-hanuman-temple.html) in KL last night. The blogger relates a story about a Muslim lorry driver. He was driving along Scott Road, where the temple is, at 2am, when he saw an apparition of a huge monkey dressed in warrior garments walking along the road.

Abominable Snowman
09 November 2009, 08:43 PM
I was reading about this Hanuman temple (http://mysticaltemplesofmalaysia.blogspot.com/2008/09/arulmigu-sree-veera-hanuman-temple.html) in KL last night. The blogger relates a story about a Muslim lorry driver. He was driving along Scott Road, where the temple is, at 2am, when he saw an apparition of a huge monkey dressed in warrior garments walking along the road.

That's very interesting indeed, I wonder if that was really Lord Hanuman or perhaps a hallucination triggered by outer stimuli and other various factors. Was that it for the driver? Did he ever visit the temple afterwards?

saidevo
09 November 2009, 11:29 PM
Here is a true-life story about Hanuman:
'anubhavam Ayiram' (Experiences, a Thousand): Did Anjaneya Come?
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=24434&postcount=10

Abominable Snowman
09 November 2009, 11:34 PM
deleted

sm78
12 November 2009, 02:34 AM
Namaste devotee,

Then what about Hanuman being an avatar of Shiva? Could a devotee of Hanuman also be a Shaivite? Do you have any sources on the worship of Hanuman and so on?

Human is an pauranic character, I don't know of any cult around hanuman upasana in these texts.

The popular cult of hanuman in India orginates from tulsi dasa, ramacharitmanas and hanuman chalisa. This essentially emotional (dubbed as devotional) cult is extension of the emotion cult around lord rama. This seems to be most popular expression of hinduism in North India where rituals are almost forgotten or completely left to a greedy priest and common people pay money and time to listen to kathas (stories) of saints. Not too different from a sunday church gathering, but here one person is usually making the profit.

But upasana of hanuman is also part of tantra, but not as the primary deity (as far as I know, but I have heard about persona who are primarily anjneya worshippers, so I could be wrong).

Present hinduism must be understood as 3 distinct streams (my understanding).

> Shrauta (and later smarta)/ancient ritualistic tradition that is mostly dead now and is very difficult to practice
> Popular Hinduism - has lot of puranic influence but can have influence from anything really (including modern saints)...characterized by lack of ritual and a lot of words.
> Tantra/Agama- This is the mainstay of real ritualistic and philosophical hinduism. However I suspect there is very few (or none at all) authentic teachers in the kaula tantra subclass of agamic hinduism~ most have skin deep depth in understanding and character.

This is all much over what you asked and perhaves completely off-topic, but thought you might find it useful coming from someone who has always stayed in India.

ScottMalaysia
15 November 2009, 11:26 AM
That's very interesting indeed, I wonder if that was really Lord Hanuman or perhaps a hallucination triggered by outer stimuli and other various factors. Was that it for the driver? Did he ever visit the temple afterwards?

The lorry driver was a Malay Muslim (all Malays in Malaysia are Muslims since they cannot leave Islam). The temple is quite a small structure (although a bigger one is being constructed beside it (or it was when I was there last year, I don't know if it is finished yet) and apart from the sign (which I cannot remember clearly - I think it may have a picture; it says "Jai Hanuman" I think), there is nothing else to indicate that it is a Hanuman temple. In fact, you need to look closely at it to see that it is a temple at all (it looks like it could be any kind of roadside building here in Malaysia). It would be very hard to make out any detail of the temple in the dark at all. A Muslim would most likely not know who Hanuman is or that he is the monkey god.

Also, there is a huge Murugan Temple (Sri Kandaswamy Kovil) in the same street. If one's eyes would be drawn to any temple, then it would be this one, not some little ramshackle temple by the side of the road.

Here's a picture of the Murugan temple.

http://lh5.ggpht.com/_6EGjAQ-bw7o/SVtZiIFN_SI/AAAAAAAAAa8/F4JnElOlM7o/s400/Twin%20Towers%20033.jpg

I don't have a picture of the Hanuman temple, but if you read the blog entry (http://mysticaltemplesofmalaysia.blogspot.com/2008/09/arulmigu-sree-veera-hanuman-temple.html), then there are two pictures of the interior.

sambya
15 November 2009, 11:48 AM
The popular cult of hanuman in India orginates from tulsi dasa, ramacharitmanas and hanuman chalisa. This essentially emotional (dubbed as devotional) cult is extension of the emotion cult around lord rama. This seems to be most popular expression of hinduism in North India where rituals are almost forgotten or completely left to a greedy priest and common people pay money and time to listen to kathas (stories) of saints. Not too different from a sunday church gathering, but here one person is usually making the profit.


well, your post have been a very interesting one with detailed analysis of the hindu structure . but i want to clarify one single point here . is devotion and emotion mutually exclusive ? arent both of them intricately linked together ?

secondly , tulsidas was indeed a saintly individual whose work did not have anything to do with monetary gain . does the later day works of hinduism hold no relevence at all on account of their recent origin ?

in other words , what are the criteria for testing a scripture's validity ? merely its age ?

just as a thought in my mind...........

sm78
16 November 2009, 04:52 AM
in other words , what are the criteria for testing a scripture's validity ? merely its age ?

just as a thought in my mind...........

There is no universal validity of scripture - that effort has always lead to stagnancy of society & mischeif in name of religion. Traditionally validity is only w.r.t to the sampradaya (though brahmanical miscreants tried to control that by titles as ved-bhaya and bhrasta, outcaste etc). It can even be at a more personal level in the current times.

sambya
16 November 2009, 07:16 AM
There is no universal validity of scripture - that effort has always lead to stagnancy of society & mischeif in name of religion. Traditionally validity is only w.r.t to the sampradaya (though brahmanical miscreants tried to control that by titles as ved-bhaya and bhrasta, outcaste etc). It can even be at a more personal level in the current times.


yes , i agree with you completely that there can be no universal validity of any particular scripture . just as there can not be a monopoly in ways to reach god .

but are you equating tulsidas with a brahminical miscreant ? your post gives an indication of that although i might be wrong in my understanding .

secondly you have not clarified whether devotion and emotion are two mutually exclusive terms without any relation atall .

Eastern Mind
16 November 2009, 07:44 AM
Here is a link to a beautiful new stone carving of Hanuman. Scroll down to near the bottom. He will one day be in America.

http://himalayanacademy.com/blog/taka/2009/11/12/

Aum Namasivaya

atanu
16 November 2009, 08:26 AM
yes , i agree with you completely that there can be no universal validity of any particular scripture . just as there can not be a monopoly in ways to reach god .



Namaste sambya,

If a top view is taken that Gauri (vak) is infinite in the highest heaven of Soma (Vachaspati - the bliss), wherefrom she comes, becoming two, four and many, it is found that one gauri has only assumed many forms. There are not many Gauris, you see.

However, there may not be any universal application, as we cannot see the vak in fullness unless situated in the highest heaven. This is not given as an argument but only for you to consider.

Om Namah Shivaya

sambya
16 November 2009, 10:10 AM
Namaste sambya,

If a top view is taken that Gauri (vak) is infinite in the highest heaven of Soma (Vachaspati - the bliss), wherefrom she comes, becoming two, four and many, it is found that one gauri has only assumed many forms. There are not many Gauris, you see.

However, there may not be any universal application, as we cannot see the vak in fullness unless situated in the highest heaven. This is not given as an argument but only for you to consider.

Om Namah Shivaya


yeah , this is correct . true knowledge is universally applicable . but we have only a fragment of it , which is why it cannot be made universally applicable .................

nice point , thanks

sunyata07
16 November 2009, 04:57 PM
Namaste,

It's very interesting to hear all these responses on the worship and attributes of Lord Hanuman. For myself, I have always felt like I've known Sri Hanuman, or at least, feel like I'm well acquainted with his character and what he represents to those who worship and respect him. Hopefully, without offending any Hanuman bhaktars by the reasons why, I can explain myself. My mother's side of the family is Chinese, and I grew up with the classical epic tale "Journey to the West", in which Sun Wukong (the Monkey King) is one of the main characters. He's not just a literary character either, but is still worshipped in many parts of East Asia to this day. Probably some of you have heard or seen something to do with the Chinese tale (a favourite even by contemporary times) in some of the Beijing Olympic game featurettes? You could probably google it very easily and see what I mean by the similarities. I am almost very certain that Sri Hanuman was the inspiration for this character, who shares the same traits of intelligence, wisdom, strength and utter loyalty to his master and teacher - effectively, the ideal student and devotee of God. However, I get the feeling that the Chinese interpretation of Hanuman is a little naughtier and a bit of a rebel prankster. :) But I can still see the connection and it's amazing that, thanks to my background, I already have some notion of what Hanuman represents which I wouldn't have otherwise had. I know it's still debated by some scholars - no one actually knows for sure if Sun Wukong is the Chinese Hanuman - but nevertheless, if it were just possible, and I'm inclined to say it is very much possible considering some of the other ideas East Asia later borrowed from India, it is amazing to see how some characters like Hanuman have the ability to spread through to other cultures and seem to have appeal to millions. Just thought I'd share that.



Here is a link to a beautiful new stone carving of Hanuman. Scroll down to near the bottom. He will one day be in America.

http://himalayanacademy.com/blog/taka/2009/11/12/ (http://himalayanacademy.com/blog/taka/2009/11/12/)


Amazing statue. It must be well over 15ft! Are Hanuman statues always this large and imposing?

OM Shanti

sm78
17 November 2009, 03:32 AM
but are you equating tulsidas with a brahminical miscreant ?

No I am not. But I don't have high regards for the bhakti cult as well, and perhaves that lead to the confusion.



secondly you have not clarified whether devotion and emotion are two mutually exclusive terms without any relation atall .

I think the 2 are separate things, emotion and sentimentalism can at best be the external mental disposition of a person - hardly anything to do with devotion.

kd gupta
17 November 2009, 05:22 AM
Could any member pl. explain about the emblem of Hanumanji , used in Krsn's chariot...thanks a lot .

sambya
17 November 2009, 08:25 AM
I think the 2 are separate things, emotion and sentimentalism can at best be the external mental disposition of a person - hardly anything to do with devotion.


well , emotion has a lot to do with devotion . sentimentalism(in its gross sense) is , of course an individualistic matter and has nothing to do with devotion proper . and this misdirected religious sentimentalism has caused much of worlds sufferings .

but if an individual does not have any emotional attachment with his ishta he cannot be spiritual in the first place . even an advaitin has love towards his shastras and have strong belief(emotion) in a advaita hypothesis without which he cannot progress in sadhana . right at the begining of it all an aspirant needs a guru and a deep personal bond with him . emotion again . towards the end of sadhana the external symptoms are perspiration , goosebumps , shivering , ecstatic tears etc which are nothing but external signs of the deep emotions that are at play within the sadhaks heart . the highest state or brahmaananda deals with ananda or bliss emotion . even in the initial stages of sadhana a sadhak must have some minor realizations to give give a boost to his enthusiasm for practising austerities . such boosts also come in form of emotional experience . infact entire topic of spirituality is centered around emotion .

i would like to understand how can you seperate these two terms by saying that they are not linked to one another in any way whatsoever !!

kd gupta
17 November 2009, 10:13 PM
In case of Hanumanji , it is a fact that any discussion will lead to knowledge then this will lead to devotion and after that any Hanuman bhakt can be recognised by his emotions , but getting Hanuman bhakti is just not that easy .

sm78
18 November 2009, 06:27 AM
well , emotion has a lot to do with devotion . sentimentalism(in its gross sense) is , of course an individualistic matter and has nothing to do with devotion proper . and this misdirected religious sentimentalism has caused much of worlds sufferings .

but if an individual does not have any emotional attachment with his ishta he cannot be spiritual in the first place . even an advaitin has love towards his shastras and have strong belief(emotion) in a advaita hypothesis without which he cannot progress in sadhana . right at the begining of it all an aspirant needs a guru and a deep personal bond with him . emotion again . towards the end of sadhana the external symptoms are perspiration , goosebumps , shivering , ecstatic tears etc which are nothing but external signs of the deep emotions that are at play within the sadhaks heart . the highest state or brahmaananda deals with ananda or bliss emotion . even in the initial stages of sadhana a sadhak must have some minor realizations to give give a boost to his enthusiasm for practising austerities . such boosts also come in form of emotional experience . infact entire topic of spirituality is centered around emotion .

i would like to understand how can you seperate these two terms by saying that they are not linked to one another in any way whatsoever !!

One needs prema (*love* is a very incorrect sort of translation of the word), not emotion. Emotion are always associated with our egoistic existence, our hopes and fears, our loves and hates, our joy and trauma. This is but just mala - things to be excreted out.

What you describe needed can be explained by one of the 5 divine qualities described in gita - truth, love, peace, fearlessness and tejas.
One can have accompanying emotions w.r.t to each of these divine powers acting within us...its part of being human, and part of our expression - we express ourselves by words and emotions and not by changing into subtle tanmatras!! But it is just that- a tool, like my hand typing at the moment. It is not a guide, not a compass of devotion or anything else.

Think youself, how can a person who has less emotion expressiveness, who is unable to write poetry or whose feelings don't seem strong from outside be judge of his devotion?? It is just like saying that person who cannot dance cannot have bhakti. We all have emotions, we won't exist w/o them, but it is a tool and really is classified as an indriya like the 10 external indriyas (the antahkarana chatustaya). Nothing more.

It might be the case that a person in perfect karma-bhakti yoga will have his organs including emotion performing at an optimal level, since it is now vessel of expressing the divine and not his ego. I can agree to this, but often it is dragged to a great extent and as a result only good stage actors become regarded as great bhaktas.

The most safeway to understand a person is by his actions.

SANT
19 November 2009, 05:47 AM
He is not exactly avatar of Lord Shiva but he is an incarnation of one of the eleven Rudras who was born to help Sri Vishnu , born as as Rama, to accomplish his task.
So doesnt that make him an avtar of lord shiva.

harih
05 June 2012, 02:35 AM
Hanuman is the patron deity of Wrestlers, for obvious reasons..