saying goodbye to your old religion

[heartfully]

Namaste!

Was it easy or hard for you to say "goodbye" to your old religion? When you knew Hinduism was right for you, was it easy to leave behind your old religion? Do you still practice any parts of it even as a Hindu? Did you miss anything from your old religion or were you happy to move away from it and start practicing Hinduism? Is it better to go cold turkey or have a gradual transition?

Om Shanti!

[Eastern Mind]

heartfully:

Welcome to HDF. I'm not sure how many converts are on here, actually, if any. The question implies that you are one, or in the process, or something.

Perhaps if you explained your situation a bit more we could respond better. My take is that you can't jump around religions like you switch cars or something. You are what you are. Its more a matter of discovering which faith fits your existing beliefs.

Aum Namasivaya

[sanjaya]

Namaste!

Was it easy or hard for you to say "goodbye" to your old religion? When you knew Hinduism was right for you, was it easy to leave behind your old religion? Do you still practice any parts of it even as a Hindu? Did you miss anything from your old religion or were you happy to move away from it and start practicing Hinduism? Is it better to go cold turkey or have a gradual transition?

Om Shanti!

My parents are Indian, and I was born and raised Hindu, however I didn't take it too seriously as a kid. For most of my adult life (which fortunately only amounts to 7 years) I've spent my time exploring other religions, mostly Christianity. So in that sense I'm somewhat new when it comes to Hinduism. Fortunately I don't have the extra burden that a convert would have of adopting a whole new culture and lifestyle. But for me, embracing Hinduism has required quite a shift in my way of thinking about the nature of God, because Hindu theology is quite a bit different from the Western understanding of God that I have grown up with by living here for all my life. A few examples of questions I've been wondering about:

How precisely does Hindu monotheism work? Is God "personal" in the same way as Western religions say he is? Sri Krishna's personal relationship to Arjuna and his dialog in the Gita would suggest that God is quite personal, but there are some Hindus who don't share this view.

In what way does God punish sin (i.e. wrongdoing)? In Hinduism we don't "fear God" the way Westerners do, rather we view him as a friend. However, Hinduism has many stories of the Devas and avatars of God battling Rakshasas and punishing them for the bad things they do. I've found a partial answer in contemplating how Ravana, evil though he was, was actually an incarnation of a guard in Vishnu's palace who was cursed by a Rishi who had gotten angry for being barred from having an audience with him. I'm told that anyone who is killed directly by God receives moksha instantly, so maybe when God punishes people, he isn't really being vindictive. Again, this is something I've been trying to wrap my mind around for awhile.

Why is Hinduism so ritualistic? While I'm very appreciative of the ancient rituals that Hindus have maintained throughout the millenia, and while I enjoy doing them myself, I often wonder how they help us to become one with the Lord. Obviously God, omnipotent as he is, doesn't need anything from humans. When we "offer" prasadam to God during a puja, we don't do it to satiate God's hunger. He is no worse off without the prasadam, and no better off with it. Indeed, we ourselves eat whatever is offered to God. So why do it in the first place? Are we somehow honoring God by doing this? Or is it entirely for our own benefit?

And there are many other questions that I could list. In Western religions these questions can be readily answered by consulting a systematic theology textbook. In Hinduism the answers don't come as easily, and require a good deal more contemplation. Being a practicing Hindu has recently caused me to reorient my entire way of thinking about God. I imagine that someone who came to this faith after being raised in a Western religion would experience this even more strongly. Not that I would generally recommend that a Westerner convert to Hinduism. Hinduism teaches the importance of family solidarity, and I don't believe that anyone should create tension in his family by leaving his religion, especially given that Western religions usually teach that there is a harsh divine punishment for apostasy. But that's just me, and others may have different points of view.

[Abominable Snowman]

Was it easy or hard for you to say "goodbye" to your old religion?

It was a bit tough. I grew up in a Orthodox Jewish community so I felt like I was both betraying my community and my forefathers by not continuing to practice the faith of our people. On top of that I have very fond memories of sitting ad listening to my grandfather say beautiful prayers and blessings in Hebrew during sabbath and other holidays. I however came to terms with this and let go of any negativity I had once I officially accepted the dharma and took it as my new religion. I still sported payot for 4 years afterword though. :D


When you knew Hinduism was right for you, was it easy to leave behind your old religion?

It was but it wasn't. It wasn't for the above reasons and I had just had my bar mitzvah right around the time I began to study and accept the Sanatana Dharma as my religion. It was extremely easy in that it was like choosing between a pile of coal and a pile of diamonds. Immediately, I knew that this is what I had been searching for, this was me, this was the truth and the way to the truth and bless. Though on a nostalgic level I liked Judaism, practicing it and believing it never seemed natural to me, aside from the belief in gilgul (reincarnation) which I believed in ever since I became old enough to contemplate religious concepts.


Do you still practice any parts of it even as a Hindu?

No, aside from continuing to wear payot for 4 years after becoming Hindu I have not practiced any of the rituals or prayers of Judaism aside from attending family holiday celebrations such as pass over or chanukkah but even then it's nothing more than another day and I don't put any religious significance or importance to it at all. I am Hindu 100%.


Did you miss anything from your old religion or were you happy to move away from it and start practicing Hinduism?

I was more than happy to leave it once I came to the conclusion that I was Hindu and immediately starte practicing, prayering, meditating, buying various items for my shrine and books of interest and so on.


Is it better to go cold turkey or have a gradual transition?

Which ever works best for the individual. I stopped cold turkey, lol.

Om Namah Shivaya.

[saidevo]

namaste sanjaya.

Here is my take on some of the questions you have asked:



Why is Hinduism so ritualistic? While I'm very appreciative of the ancient rituals that Hindus have maintained throughout the millenia, and while I enjoy doing them myself, I often wonder how they help us to become one with the Lord. Obviously God, omnipotent as he is, doesn't need anything from humans. When we "offer" prasadam to God during a puja, we don't do it to satiate God's hunger. He is no worse off without the prasadam, and no better off with it. Indeed, we ourselves eat whatever is offered to God. So why do it in the first place? Are we somehow honoring God by doing this? Or is it entirely for our own benefit?


• Hinduism is so ritualistic because people throughout the world live in and adore fanfare. Everyone of us feel important and want to show it off whenever there is occasion. The politician does the best (or worst) of it. Fanfare is forced on even the head of a Hindu religious institution, although many don't take to it personally.

Does God like fanfare then? No. But only if we make him so, the common man seeks Him, adores Him and even fears him. We usually have the smaraNa--remembrance of God only when we have a desire that is beyond us or some suffering that we fear might ruin our health and life. Many of us don't remember Him when we are happy or attribute the cause of our happiness to Him. So, if we have a pUjA room where God is kept on the throne to oversee us, a God's picture on a tile in the kitchen wall or a God's mini-picture in our purse, we are constantly reminded of Him. The imposing devAlayas--temples and mUrtis--images therein are another reminder to the society about God's presence and the need to remember Him in our lives. The whole idea is to make the Hindu society imbibe the saguNa brahman as a personal God so the human mind progresses easier to the next step of realizing that the same SB is the Atman, the Self in us.

• When we chant a mantra or shloka in our pUjA room just like that, we don't feel one with God; when we chant it with the right pronunciation, we create the right vibrations; when we chant it knowing the meaning, the vibrations become more powerful and intense; when we chant it with the contemplation of its meaning and the right bhAva--frame of mind, the vibrations are the most powerful and we become one with the God, the Atman in us, during those moments of time.

When we regularly do this right type of chanting, the mantra of the shloka starts working, by finetuning the receiver in us.

• We don't offer 'prasAdam', only 'nivedanam' to God during pUja. The term 'nivedanam' means 'announcement, communication' that we thank God for the food resources he has given us. And then we take the sample offered as God's 'prasAdam'.



How precisely does Hindu monotheism work? Is God "personal" in the same way as Western religions say he is? Sri Krishna's personal relationship to Arjuna and his dialog in the Gita would suggest that God is quite personal, but there are some Hindus who don't share this view.


• The concept of monotheism in Hinduism is multi-layered: immanent as the substratum is the nirguNa--attributeless brahman; projected over him like the movie on the screen is the saguNa brahman with attributes; and the world and its beings are projected over the SB as concreted layers of matter animated by consciousness.

To cite the analogy of OOPS--object oriented programming software, NB is the abstract or super class; from him are derived the child or sub-classes of SB and others using single multiple inheritances. The world and its beings are the last level of sub-classes where the technical essentials are hidden and only the operating interface is exposed.

• The concept of personal God of Hinduism is differenct from that of the Western Religions in this sense: the WR permit only one relationship with God--that of the master and the slave. Hinduism permits several bhakti bhAvas--devotional relationships, so I can relate to God in the dAsya bhAva--where I am the servant and he is the master; nAyakI bhAva--where I am the wife and he is the husband; sakhin/sakhI bhAva--where God is my boy/girl friend; mitra bhAva--where God is my close friend, to name some bhakti bhAvas.

• Until the time of gItopadesha, Arjuna considered KRShNa only as a royal king, relative and counsellor; the moment KrShNa let Arjuna see his vishvarUpa, Arjuna realized that there is nothing in the world except KrShNa. The vishvarUpa darshanam has a special significance in Hinduism. Everyone of us has that form, for some moments when we wake up in the morning; it is the time when we have the closest communication with the Self. While we can only let that communication just fritter away at our stage of spiritual advacement, the sages let it devolve on their devotees--this is the reason that a Hindu sage is worshipped with Arati when he gets up in the morning.



In what way does God punish sin (i.e. wrongdoing)?


• God does not punish an individual for his/her wrong doing--only the effects of what is caused are set in motion as suffering. God of course intervenes when an individual harasses others by adharmic activities, but again is this subject to the karmic laws; only in extreme cases does God cause the death of the individual.

By the bye, Sanjaya's questions and my replies don't exactly belong to this thread; if Satay prefers, he may move them to another suitable thread.

[sanjaya]

By the bye, Sanjaya's questions and my replies don't exactly belong to this thread; if Satay prefers, he may move them to another suitable thread.

You're quite right. I meant to pose these questions only to answer Heartfully's question about making the transition into Hinduism. However, I am most interested by your lengthy response. You've said a lot of things that I'll have to carefully consider, and I'll likely have a few more questions for you in the next couple of days (if that's all right with you). If my questions are moved, please let me know where they end up, because I would very much like to continue this discussion.


I was more than happy to leave it once I came to the conclusion that I was Hindu and immediately starte practicing, prayering, meditating, buying various items for my shrine and books of interest and so on.

Which ever works best for the individual. I stopped cold turkey, lol.

Om Namah Shivaya.

I have a question for you as well. I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, since I mean no offense. But if I may ask: why did you feel a need to reject Judaism in order to embrace Hinduism? Forgive me if this sounds ignorant, but Judaism seems like a religion that would be at least moderately compatible with Hinduism. Both religions originated with a specific ancient culture, and both acknowledge that truth can be found in other religions. Indeed, my understanding of Judaism is that Torah observance is meant for Jews only, and that non-Jews are free to worship God in other ways. Would an Orthodox Jew not be able to take up Hindu practices and/or a Hindu understanding of God while continuing to practice Judaism? If so, is there any reason you chose not to do this?

[sm78]

Why is Hinduism so ritualistic? While I'm very appreciative of the ancient rituals that Hindus have maintained throughout the millenia, and while I enjoy doing them myself, I often wonder how they help us to become one with the Lord. Obviously God, omnipotent as he is, doesn't need anything from humans. When we "offer" prasadam to God during a puja, we don't do it to satiate God's hunger. He is no worse off without the prasadam, and no better off with it. Indeed, we ourselves eat whatever is offered to God. So why do it in the first place? Are we somehow honoring God by doing this? Or is it entirely for our own benefit?

Rituals are for you and not for God per se. Rituals have deep psychology and science behind them. They are also concrete outer expressions of deeper inner layers of consciousness...rituals are most wonderful form of meditation discovered by man - not all rituals, but most hindu rituals can be classified as such.

Just one word: While performing rituals just concentrate on performing, and not on philosophical speculations like 'why god needs food offering etc'. Any thought (except visualizations/dhyana prescribed for the ritual) or speculation will draw one down to the mental level, while the whole idea is to get beyond that.

[rainycity]

I have a question for you as well. I hope this isn't taken the wrong way, since I mean no offense. But if I may ask: why did you feel a need to reject Judaism in order to embrace Hinduism? Forgive me if this sounds ignorant, but Judaism seems like a religion that would be at least moderately compatible with Hinduism. Both religions originated with a specific ancient culture, and both acknowledge that truth can be found in other religions. Indeed, my understanding of Judaism is that Torah observance is meant for Jews only, and that non-Jews are free to worship God in other ways. Would an Orthodox Jew not be able to take up Hindu practices and/or a Hindu understanding of God while continuing to practice Judaism? If so, is there any reason you chose not to do this?

I could be wrong, so don't quote me on this, but judaism is quite a bit different to christianity in that the torah/tanakh is open for interpretation, and there are no doctrines about metaphysical things like heaven, hell and an afterlife. This is why they have kaballah, because it elaborates on metaphysical matters. Some of the kaballah is pretty similar to hinduism. Jews don't neccessarily believe that the old testament is literal truth, the creation account in genesis is interpreted as just a story and they have no problem with sceintific theories. The old testament is an account of the ancient jewish peoples' worship of God in the past and is not neccessarily believed to literally be an account of what God said, what God wanted etc, but rather books about God and history written by men. Orthodox jews of course would be much more fundamentalist and literal in their interpretations of the bible and I think there are some jewish young earth creationists.

[Onkara]

Was it easy or hard for you to say "goodbye" to your old religion? When you knew Hinduism was right for you, was it easy to leave behind your old religion? Do you still practice any parts of it even as a Hindu? Did you miss anything from your old religion or were you happy to move away from it and start practicing Hinduism? Is it better to go cold turkey or have a gradual transition?

Namasté Heartfully
1) I personally have not had a religion in my life, except RC baptism. As my initiation to Sanatana Dharma was through Advaita Vedanta, I am still not sure if this defines me as a Hindu or more rather an Advaitin or Vedantin, due to the vastness of Sanatana Dharma. What suprised me was althoug I approached it as a philosophical challange in the begining, I now feel that all that exists is God. So in a way it has turned "me" religious.

2) I am starting to believe that one should go 100% with that which comes easiest or more natural. In other words give it a go and don't look back. If a change lies in your future then it will be right when it comes to a certain extent. Change is natural, enjoy your religion now.