will i get moksha?

[amith vikram]

hi.
i have so many questions but dont know where to start.only six months ago,i didnt know the real meaning or objective of the sanatana dharma.i thought the vedas were just verses or hymns for chanting and/or sacrifices.I knew there was something called the upanishads but i thought they were merely some stories.one fine day i came across the editorial of the monthly magazine of the ramakrishna mission,viveka prabha,which contained the yaagnavalkya-maitreyi samvaada.my mind was blown away instantly.without wasting much time i flipped through the e-pages of the upanishads and now it is raining questions inside my head.

first Q:where should i start?no matter where i start,my ahankaara seems to grow even more.how to contain this?

[Eastern Mind]

Namaste amith.
Welcome to these forums.
You already started! The wise advise to start a spiritual practise small and let it grow. Maybe 5 minutes a day sitting still in a sacred place (which cam be any place) and 3 minutes of reading some scripture. Soon the forces of nature will guide you to which path you, as an individual, are best suited to. Yes, you will attain moksha, if not in this lifetime, the next, or the next. it is each soul's destiny.

Aum Namasivaya

[devotee]

Namaste Amith,

Welcome to this forum ! :)



You already started! The wise advise to start a spiritual practise small and let it grow. Maybe 5 minutes a day sitting still in a sacred place (which cam be any place) and 3 minutes of reading some scripture. Soon the forces of nature will guide you to which path you, as an individual, are best suited to. Yes, you will attain moksha, if not in this lifetime, the next, or the next. it is each soul's destiny.


Well said, EM ! Every soul is destined to attain Moksha. We all are going towards that knowingly or unknowingly. That is the ONLY final destination for all of us. Now, how much time it would take, depends on whether we are making efforts in that direction or in opposite direction.

OM

[Spiritualseeker]

OM OM OM !

[kd gupta]

Moksha is being discussed again . Ganesh pd.ji hinted to 8.21 of gita and Saidevoji also explained nicely . EMji boldly says , today or tomorrow every soul is destined to get moksha . I agree with the point , because gita 8.21 is conditional and condition is YO MAM SMARATI , then what with other souls which are other than human form . So I find that moksha , which explained as per shruti , is a myth .

[amith vikram]

namaste all,
I have already started with a bit of dhyana everyday,chanting aum and i have also resumed with my gayathri japa.
i have my second question:
If the 'I' and all the otherthings are born out of 'agnana' or ignorance,when was this ignorance first born?
thanks

[devotee]

Namaste Amith,



If the 'I' and all the other things are born out of 'agnana' or ignorance,when was this ignorance first born?
thanks

The questions like, "When did this creation happen ?", "When was this ignorance first born ?", "When will this creation end ?" are actually invalid questions.

These questions arise from our conditioned way of thinking. It is like, "when I am there, I must be born at some point of time" ! And when you come to know that you were actually never born, it appears so ridiculous to accept ! But if everything has an origin then how come there be an unborn God ?

The SELF, the Reality has, had & will always have four parts : Waking state, Dreaming state, Prajna state & the untainted Turiya state. The ignorance is the characteristic of the SELF within the first two states. There is nothing which was ever created & there is nothing which will be ever destroyed (Sounds too much Physics than spirituality ?). The forms & the states will keep on changing .... apparently ..... but there is actually nothing changing.

OM

[kd gupta]

namaste all,
I have already started with a bit of dhyana everyday,chanting aum and i have also resumed with my gayathri japa.
i have my second question:
If the 'I' and all the otherthings are born out of 'agnana' or ignorance,when was this ignorance first born?
thanks


You and your all friends of the same age group are supposed for performing duty as said below . The gyan and dhyan [ knowledge and meditation ] comes automatically...
Tasmaad asaktah satatam kaaryam karma samaachara;
Asakto hyaacharan karma param aapnoti poorushah.
Therefore, without attachment, do thou always perform action which should be done;
for, by performing action without attachment man reaches the Supreme. gita 19/3

[amith vikram]

You and your all friends of the same age group are supposed for performing duty as said below . The gyan and dhyan [ knowledge and meditation ] comes automatically...
Tasmaad asaktah satatam kaaryam karma samaachara;
Asakto hyaacharan karma param aapnoti poorushah.
Therefore, without attachment, do thou always perform action which should be done;
for, by performing action without attachment man reaches the Supreme. gita 19/3

I agree.but what about my question?they say clear your doubts by asking the guru.only that way can we get some knowledge..

[Onkara]

I agree.but what about my question?they say clear your doubts by asking the guru.only that way can we get some knowledge..
Welcome Amith Vikram.
Which question remains, is it this one "first Q:where should i start?no matter where i start,my ahankaara seems to grow even more.how to contain this? "

If so then do not add concern to your challange. I suggest you watch ahankaara, it grows as your attention falls on it. For example you say "what now?" and it replies "reading the post" and so on. It appears to be growing because you have become more aware of yourself. This is good. There is no reason to fight it for the moment. Instead watch it as you go about your daily life.

Meditation is good. :)

[amith vikram]

Welcome Amith Vikram.
Which question remains, is it this one "first Q:where should i start?no matter where i start,my ahankaara seems to grow even more.how to contain this? "

If so then do not add concern to your challange. I suggest you watch ahankaara, it grows as your attention falls on it. For example you say "what now?" and it replies "reading the post" and so on. It appears to be growing because you have become more aware of yourself. This is good. There is no reason to fight it for the moment. Instead watch it as you go about your daily life.

Meditation is good. :)
yeah,i'll try.but this question is really a nut in my throat:"when was this ignorance of 'i' first born?means tracing back to my previous janmas,where does it actually start?"

[Onkara]

yeah,i'll try.but this question is really a nut in my throat:"when was this ignorance of 'i' first born?means tracing back to my previous janmas,where does it actually start?"
Dear Amith
The responses above are good. I appreciate one might need to approach it from a different angle. Here is my personal approach:

The body and mind are dependent on food. They exist because of food. We know this because if someone takes intoxicants or does not eat then the mind also responds accordingly. For the sake of this question, I take body and mind as one, mutually dependent material.

Body and mind are born. As the body grows so does our mind through education. As a child we had no idea about other countries and languages, we were ignorant (limited by not knowing). It took educaiton for us to understand what we now know so easily.

Education of your mind is required to remove Maya (Ignorance of I). Similar to a foreign language if you have not tackled it before it will take a little paticence. When mind comes to know Maya, Maya will then be known to you. You will surpass Maya by knowing Maya.

Maya can be taken to have started when you were born. Maya started wiith your body-mind in this scenario because it depends on your mind to understand it in this life. In other words not understanding Maya is the same as not understanding a new language. You have to learn it in this life. Past lives will not matter now, neither will the next life, here YOU are. Patience and practice are the answers in this life.

I hope that helps a little bit.

[mukunda20]

Namaste Amith and everyone.
1:where should i start?no matter where i start,my ahankaara seems to grow even more.how to contain this?
2:If the 'I' and all the otherthings are born out of 'agnana' or ignorance,when was this ignorance first born?

If you take a look at this equation, it might be of some help to you.
(Atma -Maya + Jnana)Prakruti = Paramatma
where Prakruti = the entire Cosmos,
Maya is a variable which takes up values from infinity(starting point) to negligible(end point)
Jnana is a variable which takes up values from negligible(starting point) to infinity(end point)
Prakruti is the environment setup where the Atma has infinite opportunities to lessen Maya amount and increase Jnana amount at the same time.
Atma and Paramatma are constants.
you also have a condition that Maya and Jnana about a same topic can never co-exist.
example: you either are aware of a concept, or you are not aware(ignorant) about a concept at the lowest level.
So considering the equation above, we can see that at a starting point. Maya is at its peak and Jnana is least. but Prakruti is all around to make sure that at every step and action(Karma) done by an Atma through an external body, there is scope of knowing(attaining Jnana and removal or ignorance about that concept which makes up the Maya part for that concept).
So once you move forward and increase Jnana towards infinity, then Maya automatically decreases towards zero.
now if we take the last point where in Maya is negligible(0) and Jnana is Infinite, then we can see that the equation becomes
Atma = Paramatma. (please note that Jnana(infinite) has become a part of the Atma at this point)
This is the goal of every Atma.
you can place your above asked questions in the category of Maya and then proceed what actions(Karma) is needed to overcome that Maya(which is gaining Jnana about that concept).
Hope this helps,
correct me if wrong.
mukunda

[amith vikram]

hi,
many thanks to both snip and mukund,
i guess,yeah it matters only in this janma and also the fact that jnana and maya cant co exist.
however, i'll think this over again;thanks.

[atanu]

Dear Amith
The responses above are good. I appreciate one might need to approach it from a different angle. Here is my personal approach:

The body and mind are dependent on food. They exist because of food. We know this because if someone takes intoxicants or does not eat then the mind also responds accordingly. For the sake of this question, I take body and mind as one, mutually dependent material.

Body and mind are born. As the body grows so does our mind through education. As a child we had no idea about other countries and languages, we were ignorant (limited by not knowing). It took educaiton for us to understand what we now know so easily.

Education of your mind is required to remove Maya (Ignorance of I). Similar to a foreign language if you have not tackled it before it will take a little paticence. When mind comes to know Maya, Maya will then be known to you. You will surpass Maya by knowing Maya.

Maya can be taken to have started when you were born. Maya started wiith your body-mind in this scenario because it depends on your mind to understand it in this life. In other words not understanding Maya is the same as not understanding a new language. You have to learn it in this life. Past lives will not matter now,neither will the next life, here YOU are. Patience and practice are the answers in this life.

I hope that helps a little bit.

Namaste Snip,

An excellent reply on the whole. Only on one point my understanding seems to be at little variance. The karma and learnings of past incarnations do matter. The different starting level of each individual is because of that. But I agree that present effort is all that is important now and patience and practice are the answers in this life.

Om

[sambya]

namaskar amith .

with reference to your first question i feel the easiest way is by trying to reduce the ego instead of trying to eliminate it altogether . the bhakti margis generally opt for the first way and advaita margis for the second . however most of us are lack compatibility in advaita sadhana and even advaitins for that matter of fact has to begin from a dual plane of existence . therefore it is wise to follow this first way of reducing the ego . this can be done by identifying the things with which we attach ourselves under illusion and then trying to identify oneself with the divine . say for example if u have to be greedy , be greedy for the suddha prema . if you have to be lusty , lust after lord . take pride in being a devotee of lord . be angry when you hear ishta - ninda etc . this way you will slowly change the direction of mind towards god and gradually overcome ego .

one more thing -- overcoming ego is the last word in sadhana . it doesnt come by in a flash .

in your second question you have asked where did this maya originate from ?

well, this is a rather difficult question . 'x' is a typical human being with mixed qualities of good and bad . the bad in him is the result of bad karma in his previous life which works through the impressions or samskars left in the soul . on the other hand we all know that soul is brahmaswaroop and pure . but when did this degradation began ? when did the maya start working ?

there is no answer to this . hindu faith have been brave enough and have declared that it is not possible to find out the origin of maya .

[Onkara]

Namaste Snip,

An excellent reply on the whole. Only on one point my understanding seems to be at little variance. The karma and learnings of past incarnations do matter. The different starting level of each individual is because of that. But I agree that present effort is all that is important now and patience and practice are the answers in this life.

Om
Thank you Atanu
I would agree, in so much that it explains the variations in people around us and ourself. Would you agree that once one becomes closer to understanding Adviata Vedanta then reincarnation and Karma become more clear?

Paradoxically, karma and reincarnation can perhaps fetter the aspirant if these areas are not approached with the help of greater knowledge, be it a Guru, scriptures or another source combined. IMHO first one needs to understand that they are not limited by the annamayakosha, or physical shealth/body.

Just sharing some ideas, happy for alternatives.

AUM

[amith vikram]

namaskar amith .

with reference to your first question i feel the easiest way is by trying to reduce the ego instead of trying to eliminate it altogether . the bhakti margis generally opt for the first way and advaita margis for the second . however most of us are lack compatibility in advaita sadhana and even advaitins for that matter of fact has to begin from a dual plane of existence . therefore it is wise to follow this first way of reducing the ego . this can be done by identifying the things with which we attach ourselves under illusion and then trying to identify oneself with the divine . say for example if u have to be greedy , be greedy for the suddha prema . if you have to be lusty , lust after lord . take pride in being a devotee of lord . be angry when you hear ishta - ninda etc . this way you will slowly change the direction of mind towards god and gradually overcome ego .

one more thing -- overcoming ego is the last word in sadhana . it doesnt come by in a flash .

in your second question you have asked where did this maya originate from ?

well, this is a rather difficult question . 'x' is a typical human being with mixed qualities of good and bad . the bad in him is the result of bad karma in his previous life which works through the impressions or samskars left in the soul . on the other hand we all know that soul is brahmaswaroop and pure . but when did this degradation began ? when did the maya start working ?

there is no answer to this . hindu faith have been brave enough and have declared that it is not possible to find out the origin of maya .

hi sambya,
true it is.it is impossible to find origin of maya.but any body has to know ,at least to some extent.if not,how to be sure that i wont be born again?you might say that when the ego 'i' reduces and finally becomes only superconciousness,there's no other concept.'who will know whom and by what'.but my question is,it was like that before too.only one brahman.i hope you got my doubt...thanks.

[amith vikram]

Namaste Snip,

An excellent reply on the whole. Only on one point my understanding seems to be at little variance. The karma and learnings of past incarnations do matter. The different starting level of each individual is because of that. But I agree that present effort is all that is important now and patience and practice are the answers in this life.

Om
can you tell me that one point,or can you give me a briefing about one's birth.

[amith vikram]

as a whole,i dont understand this samsaara chakra nor this brahman.
it was only one brahman at first.then all this prakriti sprang up,naturally,effortlessly and again 1 day it will be brahman once again.yes it is still brahman and will always be.
but moving further,we can say that,weather or not we will get moksha,it is not in our hands.