shankaracharya was a vaishnav in disguise

[SANT]

as per jagadguru kripalu ji maharaj he was a rasika
look at what he says


kAmyopAsana yArthayanty anudinaM kincit phalaM svepsitam,
kecit svargam athApavargam apare yogAdi yajnAdibhiH,
asmAkaM yadunandanAMghri yugala dhyAnAvadhAnArthinAm,
kiM lokena damena kiM nRpatinA svargApavargaizca kiM?

Those who perform righteous actions with the selfish desire for the attainment of heaven may do so.Those who desire liberation via the path of jnana or yoga may pursue that goal,but i want nothing of these two paths.i wish to engross myself in the nectar of shri krishna's lotus feet.I do not desire wordly or heavenly pleasures,not do i desire liberation.I am a rasika who relishes the bliss of divine love.


prabodha sudakam
Prem ras siddhant by kripalu maharaj

[atanu]

as per jagadguru kripalu ji maharaj he was a rasika
look at what he says


kAmyopAsana yArthayanty anudinaM kincit phalaM svepsitam,
kecit svargam athApavargam apare yogAdi yajnAdibhiH,
asmAkaM yadunandanAMghri yugala dhyAnAvadhAnArthinAm,
kiM lokena damena kiM nRpatinA svargApavargaizca kiM?

Those who perform righteous actions with the selfish desire for the attainment of heaven may do so.Those who desire liberation via the path of jnana or yoga may pursue that goal,but i want nothing of these two paths.i wish to engross myself in the nectar of shri krishna's lotus feet.I do not desire wordly or heavenly pleasures,not do i desire liberation.I am a rasika who relishes the bliss of divine love.


prabodha sudakam
Prem ras siddhant by kripalu maharaj

Namaste bandhu,

But actually Shankara sung "Shivo hum".

Vishnu is Vibhu -- all pervading, omnipresent. Human minds limit themselves within categories. But true spiritualists who have the infinite Vibhu as the only goal are all vaisnavas. They are saivas also, since will all pervading Vibhu be of any use if it was not auspicious?

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

as per jagadguru kripalu ji maharaj he was a rasika
look at what he says


kAmyopAsana yArthayanty anudinaM kincit phalaM svepsitam,
kecit svargam athApavargam apare yogAdi yajnAdibhiH,
asmAkaM yadunandanAMghri yugala dhyAnAvadhAnArthinAm,
kiM lokena damena kiM nRpatinA svargApavargaizca kiM?

Those who perform righteous actions with the selfish desire for the attainment of heaven may do so.Those who desire liberation via the path of jnana or yoga may pursue that goal,but i want nothing of these two paths.i wish to engross myself in the nectar of shri krishna's lotus feet.I do not desire wordly or heavenly pleasures,not do i desire liberation.I am a rasika who relishes the bliss of divine love.


prabodha sudakam
Prem ras siddhant by kripalu maharaj

Namaste sant,

With all respects to Kripalu ji, I ask, whether he has taught what "I am" is? Some may feel that knowing "I am" is not essential But Shri Krishna has taught so:

13.12 Adhyaatma jnaana nityatwam tattwa jnaanaartha darshanam;
Etajjnaanamiti proktam ajnaanam yadato’nyathaa.

13.13 Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;
Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate.

Om

[satay]

namaskar,


Namaste bandhu,

But actually Shankara sung "Shivo hum".

Om Namah Shivaya

and also Baj Govind. Actually, if you listen to the lectures of some of the advaitin Indian scholars on Hindu studies at the Oxford site, they are not shy to say that Sankaracarya gave as much importance to bhakti as he did to Gyana. He seemed to have said that Bhakti is an essential part for liberation as it prepares the mind.

So saying that he sang 'shivo hum' I am not sure what you are implying. Are you implying that he advocated shiva as supreme? That might be a post sankara view.

[satay]

Namaskar,



Namaste sant,

With all respects to Kripalu ji, I ask, whether he has taught what "I am" is? Some may feel that knowing "I am" is not essential But Shri Krishna has taught so:
Om

What does this have to do with the topic of the thread in this vaisnava forum? Kripalu is a vaisnava. Are you expecting him to teach advaita vedanta?

[atanu]

namaskar,

and also Baj Govind. Actually, if you listen to the lectures of some of the advaitin Indian scholars on Hindu studies at the Oxford site, they are not shy to say that Sankaracarya gave as much importance to bhakti as he did to Gyana. He seemed to have said that Bhakti is an essential part for liberation as it prepares the mind.

So saying that he sang 'shivo hum' I am not sure what you are implying. Are you implying that he advocated shiva as supreme? That might be a post sankara view.

I placed my view that Vishnu is not Vishnu if not Shiva, and Shiva will not be Shiva if not Vishnu.


Vishnu is Vibhu -- all pervading, omnipresent. Human minds limit themselves within categories. But true spiritualists who have the infinite Vibhu as the only goal are all vaisnavas. They are saivas also, since will all pervading Vibhu be of any use if it was not auspicious?


Om

[atanu]

Namaskar,

What does this have to do with the topic of the thread in this vaisnava forum? Kripalu is a vaisnava. Are you expecting him to teach advaita vedanta?

Namaste satay,

I personally feel that Adhyaatma jnaana is not preserve of Advaitins. But if you feel it improper the post may please be deleted.

Om

[satay]

namaskar,



Namaste satay,

I personally feel that Adhyaatma jnaana is not preserve of Advaitins. But if you feel it improper the post may please be deleted.

Om

I will leave the post in. I just felt that it is odd for one to expect a vaisnava teach 'self' gyan. Since bhakti (of vishnu) is the only means for liberation for this worldview.

[amith vikram]

can someone please tell me the idea of liberation according to vaishnavas/dvaitas?

[SANT]

yamunA nikaTa taTa sthita
vrindAvana kAnane mahAramye

kalpa druma talabhUmau
caraNaM caraNopari sthApya

tishTaMtaM ghana nIlaM
sva tejasA bhAsayanta miha vizvaM

pItAmbara paridhAnaM
candana karpUra lipta sarvAGgam

Visualize Lord Krishna standing with
one leg crossed over the other,
under the wish-yielding Kalpa. tree,
in a most beautiful flowery bower in Vrindavana,
situated near the banks of the river Yamuna.

His complexion as a dark rain-ladden cloud,
illuminates the whole world with its Luster.
He is dressed in yellow silk garments and
all parts of His transcendental body are anointed
with the paste of sandalwood and camphor.

Akarna pUrna netraM
kuNDala yuga maNDita zravaNaM

manda smita mukha kamalaM
sa kaustubhO dAra maNi hAraM

valayAGgulIya kAdyA nujjvala yantaM svalankArAn
gala vilulita vana mAlaM sva tejasApAsta kali kAlaM

His large captivating eyes seem to reach almost to
His ears which are adorned with glittering earrings.

A sweet, gentle, enchanting smile blooms
from His lotus face. He is wearing jewelery
made of precious stones, pearls and
the celestial jem, Kaustubha.

The radiance of His transcendental body
enhances the splendour of the golden bracelets, rings
and the other ornaments present on Him.

Around His neck, the vanamala garland
made of five heavenly fragrant flowers,
is gently swaying to and fro.
His very brilliance and beauty drives away
the sinful effects of the dark age of Kali.

gunjAravAli kalitaM
gunjA puGjAnvite zirasi

bhuGjAnaM saha gopaiH
kunjAn tar vartinaM hariM smarata

mandAra puSpa vAsita
mandAnila sevita parAnandaM

mandAkinI yuta padaM namata
mahAnanda daM mahA puruSaM

The curly locks of His dark hair surrounded by
the vines and fragrant flowers of the divine bower,
are attracting the intoxicated, noisy, bumble bees.

Fondly remember and contemplate upon Lord Hari
Who is frolicking in the bower along with His
cowherd playmates and eating His midday meal joyfully.

Offering worship and prayers, meditate upon
that Supreme Personality, Sri Krishna,
the Bestower of the highest Bliss!

He is fanned by the gentle breeze, scented with
the fragrance of heavenly 'mandAra' flowers,
and His lotus feet are attended by
the sacred celestial river, Ganges.

surabhIkRta digvalayaM
surabhi zatair AvritaH paritaH

surabhIti kSapaNa mahA
sura bhImaM yAdavaM namata

His Divine fragrance pervades all around
as He is encircled by hundreds of blessed cows
who are attracted by His captivating beauty and
soul-stirring ethereal music pouring from His flute.

Let us offer our humble obeisance to beloved Lord,
Sri Krishna, the Descendent of Yadu dynasty,
Who even drives away the fears of heavenly gods
by terrifying and conquering the demoniac forces
with His supreme valor.

[SANT]

Namaste sant,

With all respects to Kripalu ji, I ask, whether he has taught what "I am" is? Some may feel that knowing "I am" is not essential But Shri Krishna has taught so:

13.12 Adhyaatma jnaana nityatwam tattwa jnaanaartha darshanam;
Etajjnaanamiti proktam ajnaanam yadato’nyathaa.

13.13 Jneyam yattat pravakshyaami yajjnaatwaa’mritamashnute;
Anaadimatparam brahma na sattannaasaduchyate. Yes he teaches what 'I' is,but his 'I' might differ from yours.



Namaste bandhu,

But actually Shankara sung "Shivo hum".

Vishnu is Vibhu -- all pervading, omnipresent. Human minds limit themselves within categories. But true spiritualists who have the infinite Vibhu as the only goal are all vaisnavas. They are saivas also, since will all pervading Vibhu be of any use if it was not auspicious?Yes bandhu im not denying shanakra was an advaitsit.
Maharaj says that those who are situated in impersonal brahman know truly the sweetness of krisna's bhakti.

[SANT]

shuddhayati hi naantaratmaa krishnapadaambhojabhaktimrite
It is very difficult to purify the mind without devotion to shri krishna.

[atanu]

shuddhayati hi naantaratmaa krishnapadaambhojabhaktimrite
It is very difficult to purify the mind without devotion to shri krishna.

:goodpost: :iagree:

Om Namah Shivaya

[ranjeetmore]

shuddhayati hi naantaratmaa krishnapadaambhojabhaktimrite
It is very difficult to purify the mind without devotion to shri krishna.


Helo sant.Sorry to take so long to join. :)


Anyway,a very very nice quote of Sri Shankara.

Here,Sri shankara declares that the mind CANNOT be cleansed unless you attach it to Sri Krsna.

The vedic upanishads maintain that mind is the only reason for bondage and only if it is cleansed,will it be able to grasp divine knowledge and thus moksha.

Further,in Prabodha Sudhakara,he sounds like a pure prema bhakta(I do not want liberation.It is for fools !!! he declares).He says,I just want to serve your lotus feet.

While this applies to any personal form of god be it Naryana,Sadashiva,Durga or Sri Ramchandra,it is Sri Krsna,whom all the literatures declare to be the Purushottamam,the foremost in all Purushas.Further,Brahmadeva affirms Sri Krsna to be the Ishvara of all ishvaras.
However,just as Sri vaishnavas maintain Sriman Narayan to be Supreme and worship His four handed form,so do the Shiva bhaktas say about Sadashiva.
Sri Kripaluji Maharaj says there is should be no fighting,becoz all scriptures maintain the fact that Sri Krsna and Sri Sadashiva are same.
In ramayana(tulsi),the author too affirms this.
There are countless other scriptures.

then comes the siddhanta.It seems the scriptures of Devi,Shankara preach only pure bhakti,that which is laid down by the bhagavata in full detail.Like for eg. the devi bhagavatam describes manidvipa as a solid kingdom of the Devi,while describing how the four vedas etc attend to the devi.This contradicts heavily,the usual philosophies propogated in these sampradayas(all variations of mayavada).
But the siddhanta of achntya bheda-abheda completely accepts the solid,personal Names,Abode,form and Paraphernalia of Sri krsna.

Even the vedas say: Satyam gyanam anantam brahm: Brahm has infinite paraphernalia.

Sri Kripaluji maharaja is of the opinion that the doctrine laid down by Sri Gauranga is self sufficient and veda-mat.It is fully according to the vedas.

[ranjeetmore]

the fabricated nature of mayavada is exposed not only in the vaishnava scriptures but also in the Sakta scripture,notably,devi bhagavatam.

Sri Narayana tells Sri Shankara to fabricate such theories that will appeal to pple of tamo guna.

This above event is mentioned when the devi is addressing the three devas:
She says to visnu,Let Sattva guna be the foremost in you and she says to shiva : Let tamo guna be foremost in you.

It may be some translational faults,but Sri Visnu and sri Shankara are not subject to the modes of nature.the statment implies Sri Vsinu is incharge of Sattva while Shiva,in chrge of tamas.

It should not be confusing that devi,who is called visnu maya is blessing Sri Visnu.

The same scripture explicitly states that the mahaviraat(Mahavishnu) has within His pores,infinte universes.The visnu and shiva Whom the devi orders,are the guna avataras that are found in every universe.

further,it is revealed that Sri Krsna and Sri Radhika are Param bhrahm and Adi prakriti respectively.


We can all make two and two is four.

The bhagavad gita(the most imp. hindu scripture) is delivered by Sri krsna.
The four most holy things for a Hindu : Ganga,Cow,Brahmana and tulsi are dearmost to Sri Krsna.
The four holiest places: chaar dham: Ramesvara,Jagannatha,Badrinath and Dwaraka are the abodes of Sri Krsna.
The vedic scriptures say : Narakritm para brahm: Parabhram has a form resembling that of a human.
The bible famously states the same thing.


this doesn't take away from the Supreme Personalities like Narayana,etc. but only establishes that the leela Purusha-Sri Krsna-is the basis of everything.And it is meant to be so.The Personalities of God that display Leelas viz Sri Krsna and Sri Rama are accepted by the great saints to be the basis of everything.Sri Kripaluji is of the same view and so was every saint(even shankaracharya.)

[SANT]

Sri Kripaluji Maharaj says there is should be no fighting,becoz all scriptures maintain the fact that Sri Krsna and Sri Sadashiva are same.

hi ranjeetmore
Where does maharaj shri say this.
Can i know?



he fabricated nature of mayavada is exposed not only in the vaishnava scriptures but also in the Sakta scripture,notably,devi bhagavatam.

Can i know where you again got this from.
Devi bhagavat on the contrary criticises vishnu and shiva worship and calls it secondary.

[atanu]

namaskar,

I will leave the post in. I just felt that it is odd for one to expect a vaisnava teach 'self' gyan. Since bhakti (of vishnu) is the only means for liberation for this worldview.

Namaste satay,

The following reply to sant was in response to the OP "---shankaracharya was a vaishnav in disguise --".


Namaste bandhu,

But actually Shankara sung "Shivo hum".

Vishnu is Vibhu -- all pervading, omnipresent. Human minds limit themselves within categories. But true spiritualists who have the infinite Vibhu as the only goal are all vaisnavas. They are saivas also, since will all pervading Vibhu be of any use if it was not auspicious?

If being vaisnava is belonging to only a group, then Shankara was not that since He said "Shivo hum". According to shashtra, shivo is Atman, devoid of part. On the other hand, going by the true meaning of vishnu as the all pervading, which again is the Atman, shankara is a vaisnava.

Sant might have got it.

Om

[SANT]

delete

[isavasya]

Shankaracharya was a great sanatani, who was beyond the realms of shaiva,vaishnava,shakta. I find it sad that few people advocate the great acharya according to their own liking.Its improper to take few of his quotes and try to justify one's stance. The same achrya also wrote these lines -

प्रजेशं रमेशं महेशं सुरेशं
दिनेशं निशीथेश्वरं वा कदाचित् ।
न जानामि चान्यत् सदाहं शरण्ये
गतिस्त्वं गतिस्त्वं त्वमेका भवानि (bhavani ashtakam)
Prajesam, Ramesam, Mahesam, Suresam,
Dhinesam, Nisidheswaram vaa kadachit,
Na janami chanyath sadaham saranye,
Gathisthwam, Gathisthwam thwam ekaa Bhavani

Neither Do I know the creator,
Nor the Lord of Lakshmi,
Neither do I know the lord of all,
Nor do I know the lord of devas,
Neither do I know the God who makes the day,
Nor the God who rules at night,
Neither do I know any other Gods,
Oh, Goddess to whom I bow always,
So you are my refuge and my only refuge, Bhavani

what if shakta quotes these lines to prove acharya believed only in meenakshi devi ?

The only thing i will say love the god you like, but not at cost giving pains to others.

[SANT]

They can,he was a shakta also since he prayed to shakti.
Im only giving the opinion of another jagadguru.
How do you feel pain reading my post?

[devotee]

Namaste Ranjeet,


the fabricated nature of mayavada is exposed not only in the vaishnava scriptures but also in the Sakta scripture,notably,devi bhagavatam.

It is painful to see Hindus who are unaware of their own scriptures & their hierarchy. For your information, Mayavad is based on Shruti & it cannot be refuted by Puranas. Shruti is the highest authority. To refute Mayavad, you have to take help of Shruti alone. So, if you want to understand whether anything is fabricated in Mayavad, you must read Vedas (Upanishads). Please read Maandukya Upanishad/Isavasaya Upanishad/Brihdaranyaka upanishad / Katha Upanishad etc. first then we can discuss further & see if there is anything fabricated in what Jagadguru Sankara said !


Sri Narayana tells Sri Shankara to fabricate such theories that will appeal to pple of tamo guna.

Please quote the authority ?


This above event is mentioned when the devi is addressing the three devas:
She says to visnu,Let Sattva guna be the foremost in you and she says to shiva : Let tamo guna be foremost in you.

It may be some translational faults,but Sri Visnu and sri Shankara are not subject to the modes of nature.the statment implies Sri Vsinu is incharge of Sattva while Shiva,in chrge of tamas.

Oh ! So, the Supreme personality of Godhead, Vishnu is not beyond the three Gunas ? Then Bhagwad Gita gets refuted !


The bhagavad gita(the most imp. hindu scripture) is delivered by Sri krsna.

Very Important is OK but "Most Important", even more than Vedas ? Then you have kept one Smriti above Shruti & so have broken the established Sabda Pramana of both Dvaita-Vad & Advaita-Vad of Vedanta Darshana !


The four most holy things for a Hindu : Ganga,Cow,Brahmana and tulsi are dearmost to Sri Krsna.

What about his saying that among all types of Bhaktas, the Jnani the most favoured one to him ?


The four holiest places: chaar dham: Ramesvara,Jagannatha,Badrinath and Dwaraka are the abodes of Sri Krsna.

So, Lord Shiva has been removed from Rameswaram to accommodate Lord Krisna ! I think, you better check up.


The vedic scriptures say : Narakritm para brahm: Parabhram has a form resembling that of a human.

That means the very concept of Niraakaar Brahman must be baseless. In that case, some verses in Bhagwad Gita Chapter 12 gets refuted !


The bible famously states the same thing.

Yes. Bible does say so but not the Hindu scriptures.

OM

[saidevo]

As isavasya has rightly pointed out, Adi Shankara was a true sanAtani. He is essentially a reformer who established the practice of shaNmata comprising worship of six gods: shiva, viShNu, shakti, ganesha, sUrya and skanda. Note that the list does not include kRShNa. This link shows how Shankara sought to reform vaiShNavism of its exclusivity: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/message/14085

Shankara considered bhakti as an initial step in Self-Realization, inasmuch as it purifies the mind. It is usual for jnAnis and sages who visit specific kShetras--sacred places, to sing in praise of the presiding deity, eulogizing it to the exclusion of others. Shankara practically sang highly on every major deity which is proof enough that he is above the sects of Hinduism.

Shanara's bhAShyas and his tattva darshana granthAs are ample proof that he considered the path of jnAna as the ultimate way to realize the Self. But Shankara also knew that not everyone can readily take to it, which is why he taught bhakti yoga in the first place and this practice is a glorious tradition of all Shankara MaThams.

[ranjeetmore]

[/quote]Namaste Ranjeet,



It is painful to see Hindus who are unaware of their own scriptures & their hierarchy. For your information, Mayavad is based on Shruti & it cannot be refuted by Puranas. Shruti is the highest authority. To refute Mayavad, you have to take help of Shruti alone. So, if you want to understand whether anything is fabricated in Mayavad, you must read Vedas (Upanishads). Please read Maandukya Upanishad/Isavasaya Upanishad/Brihdaranyaka upanishad / Katha Upanishad etc. first then we can discuss further & see if there is anything fabricated in what Jagadguru Sankara said !
[/quote]

Shruti itself supports the personal form of God.The reference to abheda-indifference between Jiva and Bhagavan are reconciled in Achintya bheda abheda.

Raso vai sah - the famous shruti verse...sah indcates a personal form of God(Sri Prakashananda sarasvati).

ALL vedic verses point towards Sri Krsna/Sri Narayana/Sri Sadashiva.

Their personal forms.


[/quote]
Please quote the authority ?[/quote]

the verse nos are my other PC.Rest assured,I will post them later.


[/quote]
Oh ! So, the Supreme personality of Godhead, Vishnu is not beyond the three Gunas ? Then Bhagwad Gita gets refuted ! [/quote]

I never said He wasn't beyond the three gunas.


[/quote]
Very Important is OK but "Most Important", even more than Vedas ? Then you have kept one Smriti above Shruti & so have broken the established Sabda Pramana of both Dvaita-Vad & Advaita-Vad of Vedanta Darshana ![/quote]

Sri Shankaracharya comments that Gita is the gist/the summary/the soul of ALL the upanishads.He addresses it as GEETOPANISHAD.
so,I am atleast in line with the Shaankar belief.


[/quote]
What about his saying that among all types of Bhaktas, the Jnani the most favoured one to him ? [/quote]

The brahmana in that context(of the bhagavatam) was for gyani.


[/quote]
So, Lord Shiva has been removed from Rameswaram to accommodate Lord Krisna ! I think, you better check up. [/quote]

Just as badrinath is of Sri Narayana(a form of Sri Krsna),we also accept Ramesvaram as His abode.


[/quote]
That means the very concept of Niraakaar Brahman must be baseless. In that case, some verses in Bhagwad Gita Chapter 12 gets refuted ![/quote]

the concept of Niraakar brahm is very much true,but it is true in the sense that Sri Krsna is the basis of Brahm : Brahmano hi pratishtha ham=I am the basis of Brahm-Bhagavad gita.


[/quote]
Yes. Bible does say so but not the Hindu scriptures.[/quote]

Nara kritim parah brahm.

Rest assured i heard this verse from a guileless authritative Vaishnava.

Radhe Radhe

[ranjeetmore]

As isavasya has rightly pointed out, Adi Shankara was a true sanAtani. He is essentially a reformer who established the practice of shaNmata comprising worship of six gods: shiva, viShNu, shakti, ganesha, sUrya and skanda. Note that the list does not include kRShNa. This link shows how Shankara sought to reform vaiShNavism of its exclusivity: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/advaitin/message/14085

Shankara considered bhakti as an initial step in Self-Realization, inasmuch as it purifies the mind. It is usual for jnAnis and sages who visit specific kShetras--sacred places, to sing in praise of the presiding deity, eulogizing it to the exclusion of others. Shankara practically sang highly on every major deity which is proof enough that he is above the sects of Hinduism.

Shanara's bhAShyas and his tattva darshana granthAs are ample proof that he considered the path of jnAna as the ultimate way to realize the Self. But Shankara also knew that not everyone can readily take to it, which is why he taught bhakti yoga in the first place and this practice is a glorious tradition of all Shankara MaThams.


Sri Kripaluji never said he was Vaishnava per se.He said he was a prema bhakta of Sri Krsna.
But that doesn't take away his love for Shiva/Devi.

But there is stil one difference-one huge difference.

He prayed to Mahalaxmi,Shiva and Durga,etc. but he ony asked for Liberation(mutki) and or wealth/health(bhukti).

But to Sri Krsna,He says,I do not want Liberation !! I just want your bhakti.

In gaudiya language,that's a HUGE thing.

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaste,

I have moved some of the posts on this thread to http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=4814

Thanks,