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Mysticnaut
29 November 2009, 01:26 PM
Hey this is my first post, ive recently started to research hindu teachings and have been reading up their meanings/meditation techniques. i love the hindu theology on everything from your spirit to your diet, everything makes amazing sense and i can feel a connection with the hindu way

my question first is, why is faith necessary as a prerequisite to learn from a guru? in every religion it seams that faith is a necessity for it to work. but why? i dont want to put my faith in to something until i have tested the waters, my faith should be earned not thrown around wildly. but if every religion demands faith then it is obvious that it is truly a necessity. anybody know the reason, logically of course?

p.s. a little about me, im 19 currently in school in CT. im going through a great phycological and soul searching phase. my mind is by far in it's clearest state of thinking it has ever been in my life, so i want to expand on that rapidly. my name is Mysticnaut because i have great appreciation for the Mystics (i think they created Christianity) and i also have a profound appreciation for psychedelics (however i am not yet a true phyconaut) and the effects they have had on my study of religion and the universe. therefore, mystic + phyconaut = Mysticnaut. my goal for the next 3 years is to really go to the depths of what the earth holds for me both physically and mentally. i want to practice meditation, do as much research in as many important areas as a can to find as many connections as i can within the human system and its correlation with the universe and the almighty. i am extremely interested in moksha, a phyconaut calls this "ego-death" and i hav experienced slightly an ego-death but it was in a dreamstate not a psychedelic state but it was EXTREMELY blissful.

i expect to have good conversations and deep discussions with all of you! i want to push our concepts to the edge. help me learn all i can about moksha and s

Harjas Kaur
30 November 2009, 04:15 AM
why is faith necessary as a prerequisite to learn from a guru? If you have a crush on a young girl or boy, she/he will always be on your mind. Everyday in so many ways you'll be thinking of her/him, what you'd like to say, how you want him/her to respond, etc.

If you don't believe in something, you give it no consideration. It isn't active in your mind at all, because it's like rubbish to you. Only something you think about can influence your desires and decisions. If you don't believe in a Guru, what power does he/she have to influence your life? Everything in the nature of your relationship will be controversy and contradiction. It will be your will and your belief versus whatever the Guru says. The operative word here isn't really like a blind faith, but shraddha, that trusting recognition which arises from deep within the soul. You recognize your Guru, you don't simply decide to blindly follow and believe in one. And sometimes the learning isn't like learning. Maybe words will not even be spoken, but there is the transmission of understanding that passes between you and the Guru. A true Guru forms a bond in your very atma so Guru is the most intimate relationship you will ever have with any human being.


i dont want to put my faith in to something until i have tested the waters, my faith should be earned not thrown around wildly. :p A Guru's job description is to throw your world inside-out. However, you have a legitimate responsibility to be sure you find a true Guru and not just blindly and wildly follow just anyone. I sincerely hope you find a true Guru because such a one is the most precious cherished being one could ever hope to find.



i am extremely interested in moksha, a phyconaut calls this "ego-death" and i hav experienced slightly an ego-death but it was in a dreamstate not a psychedelic state but it was EXTREMELY blissful.Don't worry about mukti/moksha, just concern yourself with becoming a true disciple of a true spiritual Master. The discipleship itself is a process of liberation.

Welcome to HDF!

brahman
30 November 2009, 05:30 AM
Hey this is my first post, ive recently started to research hindu teachings and have been reading up their meanings/meditation techniques. i love the hindu theology on everything from your spirit to your diet, everything makes amazing sense and i can feel a connection with the hindu way

my question first is, why is faith necessary as a prerequisite to learn from a guru? in every religion it seams that faith is a necessity for it to work. but why? i dont want to put my faith in to something until i have tested the waters, my faith should be earned not thrown around wildly. but if every religion demands faith then it is obvious that it is truly a necessity. anybody know the reason, logically of course?

p.s. a little about me, im 19 currently in school in CT. im going through a great phycological and soul searching phase. my mind is by far in it's clearest state of thinking it has ever been in my life, so i want to expand on that rapidly. my name is Mysticnaut because i have great appreciation for the Mystics (i think they created Christianity) and i also have a profound appreciation for psychedelics (however i am not yet a true phyconaut) and the effects they have had on my study of religion and the universe. therefore, mystic + phyconaut = Mysticnaut.

my goal for the next 3 years is to really go to the depths of what the earth holds for me both physically and mentally.

i want to practice meditation, do as much research in as many important areas as a can to find as many connections as i can within the human system and its correlation with the universe and the almighty. i am extremely interested in moksha, a phyconaut calls this "ego-death" and i hav experienced slightly an ego-death but it was in a dreamstate not a psychedelic state but it was EXTREMELY blissful.

i expect to have good conversations and deep discussions with all of you! i want to push our concepts to the edge. help me learn all i can about moksha and s


Welcome Mysticnaut,


Can you define the word ‘faith’ in detail please?




.

sm78
30 November 2009, 07:38 AM
my question first is, why is faith necessary as a prerequisite to learn from a guru? in every religion it seams that faith is a necessity for it to work. but why? i dont want to put my faith in to something until i have tested the waters, my faith should be earned not thrown around wildly. but if every religion demands faith then it is obvious that it is truly a necessity. anybody know the reason, logically of course?

Faith on a God, a book, a teaching, a prophet (in the sense that it is a unquestionable) is be thrown as far away as one could. But *sincerity* is very much needed.Without due sincerity and a discriminating *rational mind* it is not possible to really make any progress with anything.

You may need other tools than just a rational mind (like *compassion*, *understanding*, *peace*, *duty* bla bla bla, all of which should come naturally to you as a human) ... but not blind faith on a man-made thing. NEVER.

Those who preach unquestionable faith generally are doing so to retain their followers and continue to exploit them. Be it in established mega-religions or small obscure cults.

saidevo
30 November 2009, 12:14 PM
namaste Mysticnaut.



my question first is, why is faith necessary as a prerequisite to learn from a guru? in every religion it seams that faith is a necessity for it to work. but why? i dont want to put my faith in to something until i have tested the waters, my faith should be earned not thrown around wildly. but if every religion demands faith then it is obvious that it is truly a necessity. anybody know the reason, logically of course?


Is there anything that we do, even in our routine activities that does not require some kind of 'investment' of our faith and hope? Is there a day we don't use the word 'I hope' in our conversation even once?

We blindly put our faith on the laundry shop without testing the waters first; we blindly put our faith in an emergency in the skills of a doctor who is practically a stranger to us; we believe that our school teacher and college lecturer will bring the best in us and put us in a good shape to face the future; we have implicit faith in people, machines and the office machinery when we walk or drive on the road; yet, when it comes to religion and spirituality, we feel we have a need to test the waters and put our faith in a god we cannot know and a guru that we don't know as yet: strange isn't it?

Although death is totally unpredictable as to its nature and moment, how many people of the total population of the world have untimely deaths--like this man who died in a lodge watching TV; or that orthodox brahmin whose body had to be kept in a hospital mortuary for two days as his son had to come back from overseas; or this young man who died of electric shock as he inserted the plug of his electric iron? Don't we have an implicit belief, faith and hope that our own end will be peaceful, just as we wish our every day to be? The more faithful among us, specially the Hindus, know of shlokas that can be chanted to avoid 'akAla maraNam'--untimely death and chant them with shraddha--sincerity and belief; the wise among us try to regulate our niyama--life routine in such a way that we live in harmony with nature, and consciously avoid impure things in our physical and mental intake.

The whole visvam--universe, runs on vishvAs--faith, implicit and explicit, for the forthcoming day and moment.

Ganeshprasad
30 November 2009, 12:30 PM
Pranam SM, Mysticnaut and all


Faith on a God, a book, a teaching, a prophet (in the sense that it is a unquestionable) is be thrown as far away as one could. But *sincerity* is very much needed.Without due sincerity and a discriminating *rational mind* it is not possible to really make any progress with anything.

.


There really is no escaping faith, it develops according to circumstances we are born in.

I am glad you qualified your opinion with, as in bold.

Sincerity is good and it is required in any endeavours without which success may not be guarantee but faith is equally important and yes it has to be questionable or else we have situation like jihadi killing themselves with no apparent reason other then a promise of some fancy idea readily available in this world.

We bemoan sometimes that there is no central authority in Hinduís but how can there be? Faith is not something that can be dictated but has to be developed and understood. That is not to say there are no yam and Niyam (rules and regulations) but it is self regulated and therefore we become author of our own destination.
 
 
Bhagvat Gitaís Chapter 17: is titled: Threefold Faith., makes a good read.

According to one's existence under the various modes of nature, one evolves a particular kind of faith. The living being is said to be of a particular faith according to the modes he has acquired. 17.3
 
Faith:
One begins with faith in their parents that they will protect them, you have to have faith to make any discovery, to move around, to board a plane. We put our faith in doctor who prescribe medicine and hope it will cure us, or put faith in almost anything really, without which things just comes to a standstill.

In the matter of God or creation there is a lot of thing to consider, but the faith develops from within, after many lifetime of experience (here again one requires a faith that this is not the only life) one may question what it is this all about, where do I come from and where will I go?
In our quest to know the truth we stumble upon(not accidentally) various path according to our desires, that had been traversed, we use our discriminately mind to understand them and develop our faith to sincerely follow to achieve our goal.

sraddhaval labhate jnanam
tat-parah samyatendriyah
jnanam labdhva param santim
acirenadhigacchati

The one who has faith, and is sincere, and has mastery over the senses, gains this knowledge. Having gained this, one at once attains the supreme peace. (4.39)

ajnas casraddadhanas ca
samsayatma vinasyati
nayam loko 'sti na paro
na sukham samsayatmanah
But the ignorant, who has no faith and is full of doubt (about the Self), perishes. There is neither this world nor the world beyond nor happiness for the one who doubts. (4.40)

Jai Shree Krishna

TatTvamAsi
30 November 2009, 12:34 PM
Namaste Saidevo,

Excellent post!


namaste Mysticnaut.



Is there anything that we do, even in our routine activities that does not require some kind of 'investment' of our faith and hope? Is there a day we don't use the word 'I hope' in our conversation even once?

We blindly put our faith on the laundry shop without testing the waters first; we blindly put our faith in an emergency in the skills of a doctor who is practically a stranger to us; we believe that our school teacher and college lecturer will bring the best in us and put us in a good shape to face the future; we have implicit faith in people, machines and the office machinery when we walk or drive on the road; yet, when it comes to religion and spirituality, we feel we have a need to test the waters and put our faith in a god we cannot know and a guru that we don't know as yet: strange isn't it?

Although death is totally unpredictable as to its nature and moment, how many people of the total population of the world have untimely deaths--like this man who died in a lodge watching TV; or that orthodox brahmin whose body had to be kept in a hospital mortuary for two days as his son had to come back from overseas; or this young man who died of electric shock as he inserted the plug of his electric iron? Don't we have an implicit belief, faith and hope that our own end will be peaceful, just as we wish our every day to be? The more faithful among us, specially the Hindus, know of shlokas that can be chanted to avoid 'akAla maraNam'--untimely death and chant them with shraddha--sincerity and belief; the wise among us try to regulate our niyama--life routine in such a way that we live in harmony with nature, and consciously avoid impure things in our physical and mental intake.

The whole visvam--universe, runs on vishvAs--faith, implicit and explicit, for the forthcoming day and moment.

TatTvamAsi
30 November 2009, 12:35 PM
Namaste Harjas Kaur ji,

Very well explained!


If you have a crush on a young girl or boy, she/he will always be on your mind. Everyday in so many ways you'll be thinking of her/him, what you'd like to say, how you want him/her to respond, etc.

If you don't believe in something, you give it no consideration. It isn't active in your mind at all, because it's like rubbish to you. Only something you think about can influence your desires and decisions. If you don't believe in a Guru, what power does he/she have to influence your life? Everything in the nature of your relationship will be controversy and contradiction. It will be your will and your belief versus whatever the Guru says. The operative word here isn't really like a blind faith, but shraddha, that trusting recognition which arises from deep within the soul. You recognize your Guru, you don't simply decide to blindly follow and believe in one. And sometimes the learning isn't like learning. Maybe words will not even be spoken, but there is the transmission of understanding that passes between you and the Guru. A true Guru forms a bond in your very atma so Guru is the most intimate relationship you will ever have with any human being.

:p A Guru's job description is to throw your world inside-out. However, you have a legitimate responsibility to be sure you find a true Guru and not just blindly and wildly follow just anyone. I sincerely hope you find a true Guru because such a one is the most precious cherished being one could ever hope to find.


Don't worry about mukti/moksha, just concern yourself with becoming a true disciple of a true spiritual Master. The discipleship itself is a process of liberation.

Welcome to HDF!

TatTvamAsi
30 November 2009, 12:37 PM
Here we go again! :rolleyes:


... i also have a profound appreciation for psychedelics (however i am not yet a true phyconaut)

yajvan
30 November 2009, 01:40 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

Namastť


Here we go again! :rolleyes:

...very good! :)

What I have seen and been taught , this whole notion on 'altered states' is the desire for expansion. The desire to be connected to the whole , to be more then aṇu ( finite, limited, 'atomic' ). One then can explore perhaps? Feel 'progress' is occuring?

IMHO the intent is fine, yet the path can be challanging. One may think , to get to this expansion I can injest something, consume something... then I will see what the wholeness, fullness of Being (bhūman) is all about.

Yet, one must ask is this sustainable? Is healthy for the body-mind connection?

For this Being to be experienced it is just the opposite - to do less and less until one does nothing (transcends) and arrives at the expansion of fullness of Being. Why so? this full awareness, Being, is at perfect rest outside of action ( the grind of doing)... More 'doing' brings more action, more layers of moha to deal with.


As I see it skill in action is the correct 'prescription' not a drug IMHO.

praṇām

sanjaya
30 November 2009, 02:51 PM
Everything I know about Hinduism suggests that the use of drugs would not be particularly dharmic. Given the emphasis we place on physical health as well as spiritual health, it seems to me that we should stay away from harmful drugs. Whatever "altered state" they produce is purely illusory. It does not constitute anything so profound as transcendence of the Maya (or whatever it is drug users call it). It's merely the perception of a nutrient-starved brain. I don't think drugs should ever be recommended for anyone's spiritual progress.

Maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone know of Hindu Scriptures that address drug use?

Ganeshprasad
30 November 2009, 03:54 PM
Pranam Sanjaya


Everything I know about Hinduism suggests that the use of drugs would not be particularly dharmic. Given the emphasis we place on physical health as well as spiritual health, it seems to me that we should stay away from harmful drugs. Whatever "altered state" they produce is purely illusory. It does not constitute anything so profound as transcendence of the Maya (or whatever it is drug users call it). It's merely the perception of a nutrient-starved brain. I don't think drugs should ever be recommended for anyone's spiritual progress.

Could not agree with you more.To me if were to describe drug use, it would be like quick send, made of Maya.



Maybe I'm wrong. Does anyone know of Hindu Scriptures that address drug use?

I know off no scripture that sanctions such drug use.
having said that Naga bavas use drugs, i don't know what to think of that.

Jai Shree Krishna

amith vikram
01 December 2009, 12:18 AM
hi,
they say,without faith one cant attain knowledge.but why should a person A have faith in another person B ?its simple.if A thinks/acts according to his strong convictions,say C.and if B too expresses the same C,then naturally A and B will be bound.
i suggest you read the yaagnavalkya-maitreyi conversation.

sm78
01 December 2009, 04:04 AM
Pranam SM, Mysticnaut and all




There really is no escaping faith, it develops according to circumstances we are born in.

I am glad you qualified your opinion with, as in bold.

Sincerity is good and it is required in any endeavours without which success may not be guarantee but faith is equally important and yes it has to be questionable or else we have situation like jihadi killing themselves with no apparent reason other then a promise of some fancy idea readily available in this world.

We bemoan sometimes that there is no central authority in Hinduís but how can there be? Faith is not something that can be dictated but has to be developed and understood. That is not to say there are no yam and Niyam (rules and regulations) but it is self regulated and therefore we become author of our own destination.
 
 
Bhagvat Gitaís Chapter 17: is titled: Threefold Faith., makes a good read.

According to one's existence under the various modes of nature, one evolves a particular kind of faith. The living being is said to be of a particular faith according to the modes he has acquired. 17.3
 
Faith:
One begins with faith in their parents that they will protect them, you have to have faith to make any discovery, to move around, to board a plane. We put our faith in doctor who prescribe medicine and hope it will cure us, or put faith in almost anything really, without which things just comes to a standstill.

In the matter of God or creation there is a lot of thing to consider, but the faith develops from within, after many lifetime of experience (here again one requires a faith that this is not the only life) one may question what it is this all about, where do I come from and where will I go?
In our quest to know the truth we stumble upon(not accidentally) various path according to our desires, that had been traversed, we use our discriminately mind to understand them and develop our faith to sincerely follow to achieve our goal.

sraddhaval labhate jnanam
tat-parah samyatendriyah
jnanam labdhva param santim
acirenadhigacchati

The one who has faith, and is sincere, and has mastery over the senses, gains this knowledge. Having gained this, one at once attains the supreme peace. (4.39)

ajnas casraddadhanas ca
samsayatma vinasyati
nayam loko 'sti na paro
na sukham samsayatmanah
But the ignorant, who has no faith and is full of doubt (about the Self), perishes. There is neither this world nor the world beyond nor happiness for the one who doubts. (4.40)

Jai Shree Krishna

Dear GP, I agree with you. The faith you and Krishna talks about comes from understanding, from inside. Infact I feel understaning is the correct word for *faith*, since doubt means one is not understanding something. With understanding doubt is dispelled and sraddha automatically flows in. Nothing for us to invent and imbibe - these are god gifted qualities.

Faith in the modern world means a different thing which generally means killing any chance of understanding, killing one's mind. The world has already witnessed the dangers of auto-suggestion and destroying the doubting mind without providing a solution and understanding to it. The doubting mind is really a friend, when it tickles, it is a signal that something has been misunderstood. Provide the correct understanding, it will cool down...and the faith you are talking about will automatically fill in.

Regards,

sm78
01 December 2009, 04:26 AM
Pranam Sanjaya



Could not agree with you more.To me if were to describe drug use, it would be like quick send, made of Maya.



I know off no scripture that sanctions such drug use.
having said that Naga bavas use drugs, i don't know what to think of that.

Jai Shree Krishna

Any means is just a means. Why meditation or bhakti is not Maya?

Use of drugs/aushadha is sanctioned, and used by some people who are not too concerned of being wraped up in a white satvic robe, internally full of disgust for this thing or that drug.

One has to analyse that if there is any real & permanent benefit from a practice. If no, discard it, if yes, use it.

That said, most drug use seems to lead to an addiction with no real benefit.

However ritual of drug use in sadhus is not known to us, so it might be different from what you or I are imagining at the moment.

Ganeshprasad
01 December 2009, 06:33 AM
Pranam SM


Any means is just a means. Why meditation or bhakti is not Maya?


Good question, but then neither above is detrimental to my health and well being, besides in both case peace ensues, well that is my experience, can we say same for the hard core drugs?



Use of drugs/aushadha is sanctioned, and used by some people who are not too concerned of being wraped up in a white satvic robe, internally full of disgust for this thing or that drug.

May be Ayurveda talks off many benefit of aushadha use, under physician guide but any drug that dulls the mind and purely for pleasure purpose would not be sanctioned.




One has to analyse that if there is any real & permanent benefit from a practice. If no, discard it, if yes, use it.

Lets face when we say Psychedelic drugs we mean those hard core drugs that are extremely addictive which distort the mind and one becomes dependent on it, there is no benefit from it, unfortunately before you have chance to analyze its affect it might be too late.
 



That said, most drug use seems to lead to an addiction with no real benefit.

And that is the point.




However ritual of drug use in sadhus is not known to us, so it might be different from what you or I are imagining at the moment.

Exactly, thatís why I tread with caution.

Jai Shree Krishna

sanjaya
01 December 2009, 10:20 AM
Use of drugs/aushadha is sanctioned, and used by some people who are not too concerned of being wraped up in a white satvic robe, internally full of disgust for this thing or that drug.

May I ask whom it is sanctioned by? Again, I'm not aware of any Hindu Scripture which allows drug use, so I would be most interested if someone could show me such a text.


One has to analyse that if there is any real & permanent benefit from a practice. If no, discard it, if yes, use it.

Agreed, but also consider the negative consequences of the practice. All narcotics are bad for you at some level. The pleasure that they give you is temporary. And the "enlightenment" that you get isn't real; it's just the biological effect that the drug is having on you. If you need to get high to reach enlightenment, are you really being illumined by God at all? Truthfully, I do not know where some people get the idea that Hinduism is some sort of a hippie religion. I hope that no one will ever choose to experience the harmful effects of drugs because of an incorrect belief that this is a common Hindu practice.


That said, most drug use seems to lead to an addiction with no real benefit.

Precisely. Is there even one narcotic that does have a real benefit? Marijuana is the only drug I know of that isn't physically addictive. And even this causes some neurological damage, not to mention the ill effects on your pulmonary system from smoking the drug. Enlightenment, I believe, is reached by bhakti and surrender to God. To me drugs seem like an easy way out.


However ritual of drug use in sadhus is not known to us, so it might be different from what you or I are imagining at the moment.

Quite right. Again, I'm unaware of any beneficial use of drugs, but I'd be willing to change my mind if I were actually presented with evidence that some people use them without any ill effects.

Harjas Kaur
01 December 2009, 04:26 PM
I think it is unfair to place Shamanic practices or Left Hand Tantric marg into the same category as recreational hard core drug use. They are totally separate and unrelated. For one thing there is ritual behind it, and worship. Certain sadhus, Aghouris and tribal shaman have used plants for thousands and thousands of years. I don't think we can demonize their practices in the absence of understanding.

I don't believe there is any Sruti which sanctions drug use, and it is scholarly dispute as to the exact nature of Soma. Personally, I have no opinion as it could be some ancient plant with capacity to alter limitation consciousness, or it could refer to yogic amrit from the prana in spinal fluid. Perhaps it is something completely non-material. Regardless, because so many foolish young people think they can try these dangerous drugs while seeking for temporary and delusional pleasures and only go on to develop brain disorders and mental illness is cause enough for alarm. But that is still not fair to shamanic and tantric marg who do utilize a form of plants and drugs in ancient medicinal as well as spiritual practices.

One example I will make is outside of Hinduism, but seems somewhat related and that is the Amazonian plant Ayahuasca. It is one of those consciousness altering plants which the indigenous tribal shaman people worship. I have heard anecdotally that people have been cured of cancer when the wisdom in the plant Deva coursed through their body. So I will not condemn with ignorance or pretended disgust those things which I know little about. I respect proper and right practitioners of their particular paths. Within Sikhism, the Akali Nihang Jatha continues to ingest Sukhnidan bhang tea as coming from a recipe given by tenth Master Guru Gobind Singh Ji. Bhang use along with Jhatka of goats and placing blood tilak on sarbloh shastars is a Shakta carry-over from ancient past. Again, while controversial, certainly disrespected, it has a legitimate purpose it times of war and this was a Kshattriya tradition.

I don't see why we can't have balance in our views. Unless someone has a tantric or shamanic Guru who gives direct instructions, or is amritdhari with Nihang Jatha and conforming to their sadhana and Maryada, use of "drugs" with delusion of obtaining spiritual progress is dangerous.

There are Kaula tantric scriptures which go into some very strange things including alcohol, I don't know if it's written about particular drugs. I do know some Jado tuna people have recipes and prescriptions which use them. But again, this is far from the mainstream and far from Sruti. But I refuse to condemn it either. Left hand path is still a part of the One God. But I believe spiritual casualties are greater the farther from Bhakti and Naam Jap. Even Arjuna rejected the yoga given by Sri Bhagavan Krishna saying it was too hard. In Kali Yuga the simplest and surest path is bhakti and Nama Japa...with a GURU! I don't believe any scripture says you can progress spiritually without a Guru. Those sages and saints who did not have physical Guru still had spiritual Guru or were avatars.

No one will get anywhere with a do-it-yourself project except serious problems and possibly even destruction of their faith, their trust, their spirituality. The dangers of self-deception are too great. Delusion is intoxicating, alluring, and pleasant. Sadhana and spiritual discipline is a lot of work and breaks the ego instead of lifting it.
ਕਨਿਕ ਕਾਮਿਨੀ ਸੇਜ ਸੋਹਨੀ ਛੋਡਿ ਖਿਨੈ ਮਹਿ ਜਾਵਤ ਹੇ ॥
kanik kaaminee saej sohanee shhodd khinai mehi jaavath hae ||
You shall have to leave behind your gold, your woman and your beautiful bed; you shall have to depart in an instant.

ਉਰਝਿ ਰਹਿਓ ਇੰਦ੍ਰੀ ਰਸ ਪ੍ਰੇਰਿਓ ਬਿਖੈ ਠਗਉਰੀ ਖਾਵਤ ਹੇ ॥੧॥
ourajh rehiou eindhree ras praeriou bikhai thagouree khaavath hae ||1||
You are entangled in the lures of sexual pleasures, and you are eating poisonous drugs. ||1||

ਤ੍ਰਿਣ ਕੋ ਮੰਦਰੁ ਸਾਜਿ ਸਵਾਰਿਓ ਪਾਵਕੁ ਤਲੈ ਜਰਾਵਤ ਹੇ ॥
thrin ko mandhar saaj savaariou paavak thalai jaraavath hae ||
You have built and adorned a palace of straw, and under it, you light a fire.

ਐਸੇ ਗੜ ਮਹਿ ਐਠਿ ਹਠੀਲੋ ਫੂਲਿ ਫੂਲਿ ਕਿਆ ਪਾਵਤ ਹੇ ॥੨॥
aisae garr mehi aith hatheelo fool fool kiaa paavath hae ||2||
Sitting all puffed-up in such a castle, you stubborn-minded fool, what do you think you will gain? ||2||

ਪੰਚ ਦੂਤ ਮੂਡ ਪਰਿ ਠਾਢੇ ਕੇਸ ਗਹੇ ਫੇਰਾਵਤ ਹੇ ॥
panch dhooth moodd par thaadtae kaes gehae faeraavath hae
The five thieves stand over your head and seize you. Grabbing you by your hair, they will drive you on.
~SGGS Ji ang 821
http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/5038/narkonarkotikar168165c6gu.jpg
Physical deterioration of a crack addict from police photos.

We wouldn't have prostitution, crime, insanely senseless brutal attacks resulting from drug use if it were benign, or if the consciousness were purified by such use. Rather the spectrum of crimes and physical deterioration from misuse of drugs reflects the deepest hellish states of consciousness and criminality lurking in the dark side of our potential. How can darkness like this even pretend to be light?

ਦੁਖੁ ਦਾਰੂ ਸੁਖੁ ਰੋਗੁ ਭਇਆ ਜਾ ਸੁਖੁ ਤਾਮਿ ਨ ਹੋਈ ॥
dhukh dhaaroo sukh rog bhaeiaa jaa sukh thaam n hoee ||
Suffering is the medicine, and pleasure the disease, because where there is pleasure, there is no desire for God.
~SGGS Ji ang 469

Eastern Mind
01 December 2009, 05:50 PM
Vanakkam:

This is just a reminder about the most dangerous drug out there. The one that causes the most harm to families and family members. The one that is legally and socially accepted. The one that has more severe withdrawal symptoms than heroin. The one that affects almost every family in some way or another. The one that causes many significant health problems. The one that gets promoted by lobbyists the most. The one that many are unaware of.

ALCOHOL

Aum Namasivaya