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ScottMalaysia
08 December 2009, 12:05 AM
I'm curious to know if there are any Hindus here who celebrate Christmas.

There are some Hindus who accept Jesus Christ to be an incarnation of God. Ed Viswanathan, author of Am I a Hindu? holds to this view, as do I. Is there anyone on this board who holds the same views, or anyone who doesn't but just celebrates Christmas anyway?

I've been thinking about going to a Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve after I finish work at 10pm. Even though I'm now a Hindu, I still love the rituals and services of Christianity. I just don't like its teachings of exclusivity, accept-Jesus-or-you're-going-to-hell and intolerance.

kshama
08 December 2009, 03:15 AM
Namaste everyone,

Nice topic. In my humble opinion, I believe there's no harm at all. I really do not know how the learned persons (swamis) view this though.

I believe many people, even some who are not Christians, are fascinated with Santa when they were a child. So Christmas tree, Santa, Christmas presents, cartoons, movies and Christmas sales all seems exciting. So when they grow up perhaps for some of them , the fondness of Christmas is still there. I find it not surprising if they celebrate Christmas even when they are not Christians.

saidevo
08 December 2009, 06:26 AM
namste SM and kshama,

A Hindu who is placed in a Christian country or colony in the native country or otherwise might choose to celebrate Christimas as a gesture of fraternal goodwill, but NOT as a Hindu Festival.

A Hindu DOES NOT need to celebrate Christmas, although he might accept Jesus Christ as an avatara of God. Ed Viswanathan is clear in his statement that "Christ can be considered as an AVATAR, even though there is no mention about Jesus Christ in any of the Hindu scriptures." This means that Hindus might accept Jesus as an avatAra of God, but only that much. A Hindu does NOT accept Jesus in the place of a Hindu God that he/she prays to, as otherwise there would have been ISJCON clubs vieing with with ISKCON!

That said, satguru sivAyasubramunIyasvAmi of the famous Himalayan Academy is very clear as to what Hindus should celebrate in the place of Christmas:

Daddy, Do We Get Toys for Christmas, too?
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/pamphlets/Pancha_Ganapati.pdf

He is very emphatic in his following statement about the topic of this thread:

"Quite honestly, however, many Hindus do celebrate Christmas and would ask, "What's wrong with that?" My answer is that it dilutes and weakens our noble tradition and leads children astray. Each religion educates its young in a sectarian way, for religionists believe that to learn one specific path is sufficient and necessary. Therefore, education should not be diluted by taking in all religions under one banner."

IMO, this should settle the issue for the Hindus.

kshama
08 December 2009, 06:37 AM
namste SM and kshama,

A Hindu who is placed in a Christian country or colony in the native country or otherwise might choose to celebrate Christimas as a gesture of fraternal goodwill, but NOT as a Hindu Festival.

A Hindu DOES NOT need to celebrate Christmas, although he might accept Jesus Christ as an avatara of God. Ed Viswanathan is clear in his statement that "Christ can be considered as an AVATAR, even though there is no mention about Jesus Christ in any of the Hindu scriptures." This means that Hindus might accept Jesus as an avatAra of God, but only that much. A Hindu does NOT accept Jesus in the place of a Hindu God that he/she prays to, as otherwise there would have been ISJCON clubs vieing with with ISKCON!

That said, satguru sivAyasubramunIyasvAmi of the famous Himalayan Academy is very clear as to what Hindus should celebrate in the place of Christmas:

Daddy, Do We Get Toys for Christmas, too?
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/pamphlets/Pancha_Ganapati.pdf

He is very emphatic in his following statement about the topic of this thread:

"Quite honestly, however, many Hindus do celebrate Christmas and would ask, "What's wrong with that?" My answer is that it dilutes and weakens our noble tradition and leads children astray. Each religion educates its young in a sectarian way, for religionists believe that to learn one specific path is sufficient and necessary. Therefore, education should not be diluted by taking in all religions under one banner."

IMO, this should settle the issue for the Hindus.

Namaste Saidevo Ji and All,

That was a nice post. Thank you.

ScottMalaysia
08 December 2009, 06:45 AM
namste SM and kshama,

A Hindu who is placed in a Christian country or colony in the native country or otherwise might choose to celebrate Christimas as a gesture of fraternal goodwill, but NOT as a Hindu Festival.

Good point. It's not a Hindu festival, but in New Zealand, where I'm from and will be returning to soon, it's hard to escape from it.


A Hindu DOES NOT need to celebrate Christmas, although he might accept Jesus Christ as an avatara of God. Ed Viswanathan is clear in his statement that "Christ can be considered as an AVATAR, even though there is no mention about Jesus Christ in any of the Hindu scriptures." This means that Hindus might accept Jesus as an avatAra of God, but only that much. A Hindu does NOT accept Jesus in the place of a Hindu God that he/she prays to, as otherwise there would have been ISJCON clubs vieing with with ISKCON!

I understand that Hindus don't need to celebrate Christmas - we have enough lovely festivals as it is.

I don't understand what you mean by "Hindus might accept Jesus as an Avatar of God, but only that much". Isn't there nothing higher than God?

I don't accept Jesus in the place of a Hindu God. I am a devotee of the Holy Mother who is called Parvati, Durga, Mariamman, Kali and many more names. I accept the Virgin Mary and the Chinese Goddess Guan Yin to also be forms of the same Holy Mother.


That said, satguru sivAyasubramunIyasvAmi of the famous Himalayan Academy is very clear as to what Hindus should celebrate in the place of Christmas:

Daddy, Do We Get Toys for Christmas, too?
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/pamphlets/Pancha_Ganapati.pdf

He is very emphatic in his following statement about the topic of this thread:

"Quite honestly, however, many Hindus do celebrate Christmas and would ask, "What's wrong with that?" My answer is that it dilutes and weakens our noble tradition and leads children astray. Each religion educates its young in a sectarian way, for religionists believe that to learn one specific path is sufficient and necessary. Therefore, education should not be diluted by taking in all religions under one banner."

IMO, this should settle the issue for the Hindus.[/quote]

Except that Subramuniyaswami doesn't speak for all of Hinduism.

Eastern Mind
08 December 2009, 07:43 AM
Vannakkam:

BTW, didn't we have this discussion last year? Are we all forgetting stuff or is it just me?

I am with Saidevo mostly. We Hindus have to be very careful with such things. Christianity can be like a cancer in the way it can spread. Its a slow creep in. During this season, here in the west especially, it is everywhere. We can't help but acknowledge it. On the news last night the carolers were guests.

The most difficulty comes when you raise children. They need answers. "Why did all my friends get gifts, and I didn't?" "Who is Santa Claus?" Mostly just all the seasonal stuff, not the Jesus stuff. That's when I found it hard.

I 'celebrate' Christmas by going to the Hindu temple. Right now I'm celebrating Vinayaka Vitrayam, the 21 day Ganesha festival. On the last day of Vinataka Vitrayam, Tiruvembavai, a ten day festival for Nataraja starts. Then soon in January, February, there are Thai Pongal, Thai Pusam, and Maha Sivaratri. I acknowledge my Christian friends and relatives (don't have many) right to celebrate, and wish them happiness for the New Year. That's just being polite.

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
08 December 2009, 09:53 AM
I am with Saidevo mostly. We Hindus have to be very careful with such things. Christianity can be like a cancer in the way it can spread. Its a slow creep in. During this season, here in the west especially, it is everywhere. We can't help but acknowledge it. On the news last night the carolers were guests.

Yes, I understand. The Christians are trying to convert the whole world to Christianity, and possibly getting people to celebrate Christmas is just the start.


The most difficulty comes when you raise children. They need answers. "Why did all my friends get gifts, and I didn't?" "Who is Santa Claus?" Mostly just all the seasonal stuff, not the Jesus stuff. That's when I found it hard.

Why not give them presents? Or why don't you give then presents on Deepavali instead? Here in Malaysia people give money as gifts on Deepavali, in similar style packets to those that the Chinese give out on Chinese New Year (called ang pow in Hokkien and hong bao in Mandarin)


I 'celebrate' Christmas by going to the Hindu temple. Right now I'm celebrating Vinayaka Vitrayam, the 21 day Ganesha festival. On the last day of Vinataka Vitrayam, Tiruvembavai, a ten day festival for Nataraja starts. Then soon in January, February, there are Thai Pongal, Thai Pusam, and Maha Sivaratri. I acknowledge my Christian friends and relatives (don't have many) right to celebrate, and wish them happiness for the New Year. That's just being polite.

When is the last day of Vinataka Vitrayam? I've never heard of such a festival before.

Does anyone here have a Christmas dinner on Christmas day, without celebrating the religious nature of the festival? My wife's parents, secular Hindus who know and care little about religion, take the family out for a Christmas buffet on Christmas Day. Does anyone here have a similar custom?

BTW, can you buy vegetarian turkey roasts?

Eastern Mind
08 December 2009, 10:40 AM
ScottM:
Vanakkam: I got the spelling wrong. Its Viratham. The last day is December 22 this year. Try googling it. Not much came up when I tried, but I didn't browse a whole lot. I'll ask more of the significance with my Tamil friends in a day or two and get back to you. There is one family here who comes just to sing a particular song for the 21 days. Kind of like the Skanda Shasthi song. Perhaps someone like Saidevo knows more about it. I beleive its probably uniquely Tamil. Perhaps your own local Ganesha temple priest would know more.

Yes, I did buy my kids gifts. Never went overboard though. Not my style. Actually for me, as a born agnostic, Christmas never did have any Christian meaning.

I`m assuming the Buddhist fake meat guys would have some sort of vegetarian turkey roast, but its sort of a joke in my mind. Fake meat, that is. As if we`re missing it.

Aum Namasivaya

Eastern Mind
08 December 2009, 01:35 PM
Scott: This is from "Loving Ganesha"

"Vinayaka Vratam is a 21 day festival honoring Lord Ganesha beginning on the full moon dauy in the month of Kartikai - November/December. During these days Vinayaka Purana, or stories, are recited in the temples, and special pujas are conducted at every Ganesha temple. Many devotees observe the vrata (vow) of attending daily puja at a Genasha temple and taking only one meal per day, in the evening."

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
08 December 2009, 02:23 PM
Sure, I celebrate Christmas. Until recent years, my family always has. And even now, it's more out of laziness tha they don't (although they're starting to do so again). Christmas here in the West is a very secular holiday, and I imagine I'd be celebrating it even if I were an atheist. To me, it's just an American holiday, much like Halloween, Thanksgiving, Independence Day, etc. So as an Indian American I have no problem celebrating in this context. Since I'm not a Christian I'm obviously not going to go to church or anything of that nature. But the secular aspects of the holiday have almost overwhelmed the religious ones by now, so I don't think there's anything wrong with Hindus celebrating Christmas. I'm also not offended by Hindus who abstain from the holiday. I can see the other posters' points about avoiding Christianization, and I think they have a valid point of view as well. I certainly think we should avoid Christianization. However, given the secular nature of Christmas, I don't feel any threat from the holiday.

As for Jesus, yes I view him as an avatar of God. If Shirdi Sai Baba had no problem praying to Allah in spite of the many bad things we find in the Islamic religion, I see no problem with the fact that Jesus is associated with the comparatively milder Christianity. But this doesn't mean that I waste my time studying the Bible or going to church. Personally I don't feel like I gain anything from these interfaith activities. There's enough Hindu Scriptures in existence that I could spend the rest of my life learning about my own religion and still not scratch the surface of it.

ScottMalaysia
08 December 2009, 10:26 PM
As for Jesus, yes I view him as an avatar of God. If Shirdi Sai Baba had no problem praying to Allah in spite of the many bad things we find in the Islamic religion, I see no problem with the fact that Jesus is associated with the comparatively milder Christianity. But this doesn't mean that I waste my time studying the Bible or going to church. Personally I don't feel like I gain anything from these interfaith activities. There's enough Hindu Scriptures in existence that I could spend the rest of my life learning about my own religion and still not scratch the surface of it.

As the bhajan "Raghupati Raghava Raja Ram" states:

ईश्वर अल्लाह तेरो नाम,
सब को सन्मति दे भगवान
Iishvar Allaah tero naam,
sab ko sanmati de Bhagavaan

God or Allah is Your Name,
Lord, bless everyone with this wisdom.

This basically means that God can be called by many names.

You're right, Sanjaya - there is so much to read about Hinduism - 4 Vedas, 108 Upanishads, 18 Puranas, 2 Itihasas - there's just so much!

DavidC
08 December 2009, 11:45 PM
I'm curious to know if there are any Hindus here who celebrate Christmas.

My grandparents were Christian, but my parents are philosophical and somewhat religious pluralist (except for non-ahmisa religions) from Christian and scientific viewpoints--though not as though Christianity is exclusive: they have studied schools of thought of India and similar ones. I mainly consider myself to practice 'The Perennial Philosophy' ('The Eternal Philosophy;' 'Sanatana Dharma,') though not everyone here considers me one who completely practices the Eternal Philosophy. I guess I have a very Orphic-Pythagorean-Platonic and even (the thing that some people do not like) Theosophist view of it, but I think most of the former was derived from India, because of the meaning and history of 'Indo-Europeans' and other things.


I've been thinking about going to a Midnight Mass on Christmas Eve after I finish work at 10pm. Even though I'm now a Hindu, I still love the rituals and services of Christianity. I just don't like its teachings of exclusivity, accept-Jesus-or-you're-going-to-hell and intolerance.Try to find a Nazarean/Essene (but some are weird--and I do not mean 'Nazarene,' which is probably nonsense unless they are Essene,) Unitarian Universalist, or Unity service, or maybe--if you want an interesting service--an Orthodox one. Some of the Northern European Protestantism (Lutherans, Presbyterians, etc.) also have nice services and are more liberal and do not always say other religions are false, but it depends on the priest, and some Orthodox priests also do not say that. The first three churches I mentioned would be interested in your ideas (though I have not gone to a Unity one yet) and the second three I mentioned would not bother you as long as you did not try to say Hinduism is the only path or maybe (especially in America) as long as you did not even bring it up. These are just some ideas for you....

sanjaya
09 December 2009, 03:02 AM
As the bhajan "Raghupati Raghava Raja Ram" states:

ईश्वर अल्लाह तेरो नाम,
सब को सन्मति दे भगवान
Iishvar Allaah tero naam,
sab ko sanmati de Bhagavaan

God or Allah is Your Name,
Lord, bless everyone with this wisdom.

This basically means that God can be called by many names.

You're right, Sanjaya - there is so much to read about Hinduism - 4 Vedas, 108 Upanishads, 18 Puranas, 2 Itihasas - there's just so much!

Interesting bhajan, thank you for sharing it Scott.