Defilement

[ScottMalaysia]

I've got a few questions to ask about defilement and uncleanliness (muci) in Hinduism. I've been told that when a woman is having her period, everything she touches becomes unclean. Do bodily fluids (blood, urine, semen etc) defile something as well as make it physically unclean?

Secondly, does Hinduism believe in transferred defilement? For example, my wife is having her period. She touches Object A. I pick up Object A and place it next to Object B, touching it. Is Object B unclean now? Then I move Object B and place it on Object C. Is Object C unclean as well? (I was told something along these lines by an ISKCON devotee)

Or what about a cloth with, say, some urine on it. If the corner of the cloth (without urine) touches something else, is that something else unclean as well?

And lastly, are there any acts or sins that make everything in the room they were committed unclean?

Thanks for your help.

[Spiritualseeker]

Immaculate or defilement
Increasing or decreasing
These concepts exist only in the mind
the Reality of Interbeing is unsurpassed -Thich Nhat hanh a Monastic Gatha

[devotee]

Dear Scott,

Most of what you say is followed by most of the Hindus. Cleanliness is emphasized in all religious activities. However, it is not good to be fanatic. You must observe anything which is practical & doesn't create problem for you or others.

You should also not hurt someone's feelings in your zeal to observe cleanliness. The cleanliness of your heart is much more important than cleanliness your body & clothes. I may take bath in Ganga river everyday & keep away from all things I think can defile me & also keep chanting God's holy name but if I have not kept my heart clean then it is only superficial cleanliness .... everything whatever I do for keeping myself clean is of no use.

In Hinduism it is said, "Man na rangaave rangaave jogi kapadaa" : The (fake) yogi changes the color of his clothes & doesn't change his heart !

The cleanliness of heart alone is important Scott, everything else is for showing to this world or for our own mental satisfaction. God is not interested in your superficial cleanliness. He is interested in purity of your heart.

OM

[kshama]

Namaskar ScottMalaysia Ji,

In my humble opinion, being clean is ok. Outer cleanliness one can make sure it's ultra clean, how about inner cleanliness? Think about it. Namaste.

[saidevo]

namaste Everyone.

I have a slightly different and inclusive view on the subject of defilement. Firstly, I have great regard for the maDi (Tamil)--ceremonial purity and AchAram--religious and spiritual purity of orthodox Hindus, and there are many of them today among the South Indian brahmins. Although I am one of that community, our family has not been not that orthdox, except that we try to observe the minimum that is inculcated in our culture. I am against fanaticism in the area though.

Secondly, it is not correct to say that mental purity is more important than physical. They go hand in hand. Unless the body is clean, and the surroundings are tidy, they will grossly influence the mental process of thinking. Some points I have read on the subject:

• Bodily fluids, finger nails, dirt from them and other body parts, hair, etc. ARE INDEED sources of negative astral energy. Biship Leadbeater with his clairvoyant powers found out that they create what he called "little astral cesspools". Paramahansa YogAnanda also talks about negative and positive spirits.

• Since the above items are gross in their physical vibration, they easily attract astral negative forces--called pIDA in Sanskrit. Hinduism requires people in the first three ashrams (except in the fourth--sannyAsa) to be meticulously clean, pure and regulated in their habits relating to these items.

• For example, among the traditional Hindus, men and women, the hair is never left flowing or billowing. Women neatly tie up their hair in plaits and tie up the ends of such plaits with a ribbon (since the ends are the connecting points). Men wearing tufts of hair, neatly tie them up; and men who do not sport tufts wear their hair short.

• Finger nails are kept trimmed to the finger tips, and were never allowed to gather dirt. Children are chided if they dip their finger tips in their mouth and then touch other things (such as the pages of a book). The left hand is never used to eat food with. Even today, the illiterate Hindu villager calls his left hand pIchchAngai--hand used to wash the anus, and his right hand sOththukkai--hand used to eat cooked rice.

• It is also remembered that a strand of hair, a cut finger nail and such other things come in handy for the black magician, so they are discared safely.

• The latrine in the house of traditional Hindus is at the farthest end of the backyard. Keeping an attached toilet is unthinkable to them. People coming out of the latrine and before entering home after going out on some errand, invariably wash their feet thoroughly and gorgle their mouth.

• On the other hand, traiditional Hindus wear their robes flowing and billowing, for they know that it allows the free circulation of prANa--life force.

• As for the tidiness of the house, dirt accumulating on the floor, at the wall corners and the cobwebs are considered sources of pIDA and are immediately cleaned. The floors are mopped at least during the days of the week considered most auspicious--Tuesdays and Fridays.

• Clothes to be laundered are dumped into a cane basket. When taking bath, it is the duty of men and women to wash their daily wear. Bedspreads and pillow covers are regularly washed; pillows and blankets which can't be washed are exposed to the hot sun in the open terrace on Sundays. It is also a must that washed clothes are dried in clothlines only, thereby using the heat of the sun.

• Children tearing up pieces of paper, or keeping their books and notebooks wrinked and dirty or treading on a piece of paper were chided, for the paper is a form of Goddess SarasvatI. Young men should keep their money purses only in the side pockets of their trousers--not in the back pocket--for the purse is a form of Goddess LakshmI.

• Where they used brickwork stoves for cooking, the stoves are washed off the remains of spilled food crumbs and decorated with floural designs every night before the housewife goes to bed. Today, many Hindu housewives wash the sullied parts of their gas stoves every night.

• Women in their periods are kept in a separate room, which is usually in the rear part of the house. They are given separate utensils to take food; they are recycled to them after sprinkling them with water. They sleep on a mat and have a wooden plank for pillow and wash them along with any bedspreads used during their first bath after the period.

• When the first lamp is lit or the switch is flicked on every evening, the Hindu taps his/her chin reverentially, as a gesture of gratitude to the light that seems them through the night.

• Traiditonal Hindu streets usually had a temple at the entrance of the street. The dIpa ArAdhanA done every evening to the loud ringing of the temple bell is visible to anyone who comes to the street. While the young and the middle-aged went to the temple daily, the old come out to the streets to pray at this time.

**********

With such gRhasta dharma--rigours of homelife, there is no doubt that our Hindu ancestors were far more emotionally composed, mentally alert and possessed an abundance of real knowledge than we are/do in these modern days.

[kshama]

Namaskar Saidevo Ji,

You are right, physical purity is good. As you have said mental purity and physical purity go hand in hand.

I can relate most to what you have said, as I too am Tamil, some of the above mentioned rules are still followed. In my humble opinion, I think what the other members and I am trying to say to Scott Ji is that mental purity is equally important.

Sometimes too much of particularity to cleanliness can bring about obsessive compulsive disorder in the long run. This is not good.

By the way, there are some meticulously clean people from the outside, but the insides (thoughts, mind and intention) cannot be said the same. So what went wrong? People say...being clean physically will promote goodness....but it cannot be said in all cases, as there are people who are mentally unclean. There are proven cases, in pyschology field that some people from good family and brought up with good values (one of which is cleanliness) end up being people of ill-repute.

Now, I am not refuting your points in any way, just highlighting another perspective to think about. As you said, physical and mental cleanliness goes hand in hand, I agree to that. In my humble opinion, mental purity and cleanliness too should be given importance. Namaste.

[Eastern Mind]

Vanakkam Saidevo: Thanks for the detailed post. I knew some of this stuff but learned a few more today. Here in the west there have been some adaptations of course but many people follow as much as they can. My guru explained that dead cells accumulate everywhere on the body all the time. This is evident when you rub the skin. The whole think is like a thin callous all around. So we are literally covered in 'litle astral cesspools' as you put it. This is especially true in the morning.

Another you failed to mention is the showering versus bathing one. The gross bathing in your own dirt customs of the west (the Greek and other community baths must have been worse) is never done in the Hindu household.

I remember when I learned that one from seeing bathtubs in Tamil houses here that had two buckets, one small, and one large. I had to ask what they were for. Some elders couldn't adjust to showers.

So bathing (showering) justs gets rid of all that and makes us feel so much better.


Thanks again

Aum Namasivaya

[NetiNeti]

I try and keep my home and body clean because God is present in both. I feel that ritualistic cleaning can sometimes go overboard and the best way to look at it is to shower before going into temple or before a shrine. Keep the kitchen clean for prasadam and do not let filth accumulate anywhere in your home.

Think of it like you are visiting you grandmother and dressing nicer than usual so as to impress her. By keeping our life clean and our bodys clean before God we show him that we care about his creations and respect his role of absolute authority.

I think trying your best and being mindful is good enough. There is no reason to go overboard and exfoliate daily or change clothes every hour IMO.

[saidevo]

namaste EM.



Another you failed to mention is the showering versus bathing one. The gross bathing in your own dirt customs of the west (the Greek and other community baths must have been worse) is never done in the Hindu household.


• Yes, the way of bathing is important, thanks for bringing it up. In a traiditional Hindu household, the facility of showering in private in a bathroom is usually according to women and the old. Men and children take their baths in the open courtyard. Even in the bathroom there are no shower sprinklers: water is gathered in an iron bucket or a copper/bronze vessel called aNDA and a small brass pot (called chombu) is used to scoop up water.

At frequent intervals of a fortnight or so, everyone took an oil bath, using pure sesame oil and soapnut powder specially ground for such use. Since South India has a tropical climate for most of the year, the oil bath was very pleasant and kept the skin smooth and shiny. For women, using turmeric obtained by rubbing a piece of turmeric against stone, is a must for their face and body while bathing. The turmeric kept away unwanted hair; since the turmeric is also anti carcinogenic, it prevented unwanted growth of skin in the form of warts.

• And then the purging! How we feared the day as children! Once in three months or so, all the grown up children were given a spoon of pure castor oil on a Sunday early morning in empty stomach. Soon there would be a queue towards the bathroom (our Hindu families were joint families with many children). After four or five hours, the children were given a bath in warm water, and given a special course of meal comprising paruppu thogaiyal--an edible paste made from tUr dAhl and miLagu rasam--pepper rasam.

I am reminded of an incident: when I took up my first job, a friend of mine used to take a spoon of refined castor oil every fortnight or so. He told me that it kept his stomach clean. He did not also seem to frequent the bathroom. One day I tried it and had to take leave to office for three days!

• There were only two brands of toothpower (toothpaste was unheard of) during my boyhood days: one was the Gopal paLpoDi--still around today--which was sweet and the other was named Pyorrhea 1431--a white, soft toothpowder pungent in taste. Since the brandnames proved unaffordable for a large household of over 10-15 people with only my grandfather as the sole earning member, my grandfather soon started making our own toothpowder: a heap of paddy husk was let smouldering for days, and to the powder of its black ash, salt, lemon and clove were added; this made a wonderful toothpowder and we children started relishing it! Soon my grandfather found the stock to be depeleting faster than necessary, so he made small packets of the toothpowder and let the children take one each every morning!

• Most families never bought rice from the market. Only paddy was bought in sacks, stacked in lofts and brought to a ricemill when the family needed rice. For iddly-dosa, the paddy was soaked in boiling water and then ground in sone morters with wooden pestles. Grocery items such as tamarind, lentils, red dried chilies, and coriander seeds were bought in bulk and kept in stock for a year or so.

• For wet and dry grinding needs only manual stony devices such as the ammi--spice mixer stone with a roller, ATTukkaL--sone wet grinder, were used. In those days when the electric mixer, grinder and the rice cooker were not in vogue, these manual devices kept the houswife bodily fit and healthy.

**********

I sometimes desire that I should try to live the old kind of life at least one day in a month: no TV, no computer, traditional cooking, and spiritual living with as much niyama-anuShTAna--religious rigours as possible.

[ScottMalaysia]

Thanks for all the replies. However, I still haven't gotten a definite answer. Is defilement transferred? If something defiled touches something else, does it defile it?

And also, how many of you here abide by the principle "whatever you touch in the morning before bathing becomes impure"?

[Eastern Mind]

Vanakkam Scott: Personally I don't abide by the second rule. I often have coffee and do a few things before bathing in the morning. But never enter shrine room or do anything religious.

As for defilement being contagious or transferable, I would think that would only happen in very close proximity. Perhaps the five second rule when you drop food. Clearly there was reason that women in menses were isolated.
I am no expert, obviously.

Saidevo: The toothpaste stuff was funny. We used plain baking soda here. Ahh.. the good old days. Even here we had them. It was a simpler time. Sounds like Grandfather earned his due respect.

Aum Namasivaya