Silk

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam all: I (my wife moreso) have completely renounced silk because of the violation of ahimsa. We will not be tossing her saris out, but neither will we be buying any more, or accepting any as gifts. I would like to know other peoples' views on this custom. I may have posed this as amoral dilemma, but its not to me ... any more.. it's been resolved. No more hypocrisy for us.

I realise that in a sense, the act of living is himsa. But still we should do what we can, no?

Aum Namasivaya

[devotee]

Namaste EM,


Vannakkam all: I (my wife moreso) have completely renounced silk because of the violation of ahimsa. We will not be tossing her saris out, but neither will we be buying any more, or accepting any as gifts. I would like to know other peoples' views on this custom. I may have posed this as amoral dilemma, but its not to me ... any more.. it's been resolved. No more hypocrisy for us.

I realise that in a sense, the act of living is himsa. But still we should do what we can, no?


The way silk yarn is taken out by killing innocent worms in boiling water, every Hindu should discard Silk. If God is in all beings ... how can we kill simply to satisfy our taste buds or to satisfy our visual hunger ?

You have taken a noble vow. I never buy silk but can't stop my wife ! :(

OM

[smaranam]

Namaste

I am Vegan , although not picky as rest of the family and world are not.

I don't use pearls ,silk or leather. Try to stay away from these wherever possible. I use vegan handbag/shoes kind of accessaries.

Diet is common sense, but these other things (silk, pearls) - I would not have noticed had someone not pointed them out. Hence education is necesssary.

Silk that I was gifted with love, I keep, and one day shall give it to someone, not discard it, but take every chance to talk about ahimsa.

I shall make it clear in advance to loved ones who may want to gift pearls/silk/leather in future , that I do not use these things and WHY.

The most important thing , obviously , is gentle reminder-like information.
If we have a good argument on ahimsa, people in whose karma it is to listen, will understand and spread the message.

I think the role of silk is so deep rooted in Indian culture, traditions and fashion trends , that one has to be a totally dettached person to stand up to people and go against the trend and flow, setting an example in the process.

Oh yes, and as long as I cannot forgive 'myself' for accidentally hurting the ants, I am attached to BMI. The Self does not judge, yet a reminder to be careful next time.

PraNAm

[Eastern Mind]

I think the role of silk is so deep rooted in Indian culture, traditions and fashion trends , that one has to be a totally dettached person to stand up to people and go against the trend and flow, setting an example in the process.

PraNAm

Absolutely! But a few of us will stand up and be counted! Thanks for being one. BTW, I believe weddings are the worst (best) examples of the above.

Aum Namasivaya

[smaranam]

Vannakam

I could not attend my cousin's wedding or else my aunt would insist I accept her gift - made of some kind of silk of course, which she would take efforts to select for each one of us. It would have been hard to refuse.

[NetiNeti]

I agree and applaud you. Silk comes from violence and goes deeply against ahimsa. When we take the time to analyze the aspects of our lives that may seem small we are showing God our devotion to his rule. Making changes like this will help mankind evolve as a whole. Good for you and I hope many will follow.

[ScottMalaysia]

I never knew that silk involved the killing of silkworms. I thought that they spun themselves a cocoon and that the silk came from the cocoon.

A Hindu on another forum told me that silk is always considered pure in Hinduism and cannot be made unclean (muci).

My wife has a sari which I assume is made from silk, and I have a kurta shalwar made from synthetic silk. I didn't know that there was anything wrong with it. However, I don't use leather - when I bought my wallet and my shoes, I specifically made sure that they weren't real leather.

[ScottMalaysia]

I just looked up Wikipedia, and there is such a thing as ahimsa silk, which is wild silk that comes from the cocoons of wild and semi-wild silk moths. It is promoted in parts of southern India.

[Eastern Mind]

I never knew that silk involved the killing of silkworms. I thought that they spun themselves a cocoon and that the silk came from the cocoon.

A Hindu on another forum told me that silk is always considered pure in Hinduism and cannot be made unclean (muci).

My wife has a sari which I assume is made from silk, and I have a kurta shalwar made from synthetic silk. I didn't know that there was anything wrong with it. However, I don't use leather - when I bought my wallet and my shoes, I specifically made sure that they weren't real leather.

Scott: This is from an article from the latest edition of Hinduism Today.

When they are ready to spin their cocoons, the worms are transferred to a fresh set of bamboo trays. Silkworms possess a pair of specially modified salivary glands called sericteries, which are used for the production of a clear, viscous, proteinaceous fluid that is forced through openings called spinnerets on the mouthpart of the larva. As the fluid comes into contact with the air, it hardens into thread which the worm uses to spin the cocoon. The diameter of the spinneret determines the thickness of the thread, which emerges as a long, continuous filament.
After several days in the cocoon, it is harvest time. To unravel the thread as one single strand, the cocoon must be harvested before the pupa matures and emerges as a moth. If the moth naturally emerges from the cocoon, it cuts the filament, just as you might take a pair of scissors and cut up a ball of yarn.
To prevent this, the pupae are killed by a process euphemistically called "stifling." This is generally done by boiling, steaming or baking. If water or steam is used, the cocoon must be worked immediately; otherwise, the pupae inside will putrify during storage and contaminate the filament. If baked and dried, the cocoons can be stored for later use.

So I think we should all move to synthetic.

Aum Namasivaya

[Arjuni]

Namasté, all,

I haven't (knowingly) bought new silk in years, since learning how it is made, though I don't eschew silk-containing clothing from vintage or second-hand shops.

However, I remembered ScottMalaysia's post when I read this article today, and thought I'd update the thread. (Update the thread! Cause it's a new kind of silk, hahaha! Haha! Ha...)

http://www.theweekendleader.com/page.php?id=299&title=Silk-sans-guilt (http://www.theweekendleader.com/page.php?id=299&title=Silk-sans-guilt)

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.

[Jainarayan]

I've wondered how people reconciled how silk is obtained and wearing it. Of course I have silk ties from back in the day. I wear them, but I wouldn't buy one now.

Of course, the whole thing is a slippery slope. If you're a professional, you're going to wear leather shoes and belts. I'd like to think the leather for my shoes came from cattle that died of natural causes, but even I'm not that naive.

Would I ever buy a leather jacket (again)? Not likely, but the shoes thing is a problem. Someone here pointed out that even using milk, butter, cream, etc. is supporting an industry that slaughters the cows when they no longer produce milk.

I think all we can do is minimize the damage.

[Jainarayan]

http://www.theweekendleader.com/page.php?id=299&title=Silk-sans-guilt (http://www.theweekendleader.com/page.php?id=299&title=Silk-sans-guilt)

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.


That's great. I wondered about that too... why the couldn't silk be obtained from the cocoon after the moth leaves it. I figured, as the article states, the silk would not be a continuous thread and have to be re-spun. So what, and so it's more expensive? Gold is expensive too.

[Caltha]

I didn't know that about silk :eek:

No more silk for me.

[Jainarayan]

I've worn silk shirts, and quite honestly, I prefer cotton. Linen is in 2nd place for me. Indian cotton is probably the finest in the world. Cotton can be spun to mimic virtually any fabric. And cotton is cheaper and more plentiful.

[smaranam]

Of course, the whole thing is a slippery slope. If you're a professional, you're going to wear leather shoes and belts. I'd like to think the leather for my shoes came from cattle that died of natural causes, but even I'm not that naive.

Would I ever buy a leather jacket (again)? Not likely, but the shoes thing is a problem. Someone here pointed out that even using milk, butter, cream, etc. is supporting an industry that slaughters the cows when they no longer produce milk.

I think all we can do is minimize the damage.

Namaste,

A search on "vegan shoes, accessories" will show a whole list of alternatives.
Like this one: http://www.ahimsafootwear.com/

Nowadays, it is not hard to find vegan items in the regular stores either - just have to look for them.

About milk products, you are all set with the panchamRt as it was offered to KRshNa and that is the very purpose of its existence - because KrshNa likes it and will blessed those gomata towards salvation. Not because you want to eat it. That is the difference. Partaking prasadam from the altar Vs eating a tub of ice-cream.

Jai Shri KRshNa

[Jainarayan]

Namaste smaranam.


Namaste,

A search on "vegan shoes, accessories" will show a whole list of alternatives.
Like this one: http://www.ahimsafootwear.com/

Nowadays, it is not hard to find vegan items in the regular stores either - just have to look for them.

Excellent tip. Nice stuff, actually. I like the black and brown shoes on the men's shoe page. :)


About milk products, you are all set with the panchamRt as it was offered to KRshNa and that is the very purpose of its existence - because KrshNa likes it and will blessed those gomata towards salvation. Not because you want to eat it. That is the difference. Partaking prasadam from the altar Vs eating a tub of ice-cream.

Jai Shri KRshNa

Never thought of it that way.

Thanks. :)

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I'm really not sure about in the US, but here in Canada we have 'hemp' stores, where everything imaginable like wallets, shoes, shirts, jeans are made from industrial hemp. Those stores may be advertising more along the hemp line than along the vegan line, so that's also a useful way to check it out. After several years now of using a leather wallet that was a gift from my dear departed Mother-in-Law, coupled with the fact I'm cheap, I went and bought a hemp wallet. I like it. As to durability, time will tell.

Aum Namasivaya

[c.smith]

Hari Om!

Am reading this thread just in time for making the final Diwali gift purchases to take back with me to India next week. Glad to see the alternatives to silk out there. A Google search lead me several places, but www.mooshoes.com (http://www.mooshoes.com) stood out as an outstanding source, topping my usual one-stop Amazon. Now I have the last few items that I'd like to take with me.

In terms of myself however, I am having a somewhat harder time as a consumer. I need a pair of reasonably priced business dress loafers for work and don't seem to run across much from many of the major shoes sites that list "vegan" as one of their selling points. I have however made the switch to vegan in the wallet and belt departments however and have drawn no attention to myself as a result (a positive).

So, all of this leads to what? ...

What about Modal Silk?

[Eastern Mind]

Hari Om!

Am reading this thread just in time for making the final Diwali gift purchases to take back with me to India next week.

Vannakkam: Didn't know you even went to India.. please share more info on that. Where do you go?

Aum Namasivaya

[c.smith]

Hari Om!

Thanks for asking EM.

I try to make it to India every two or three months as I'm able to Delhi and a suburb just outside where I have friends so close that we've adopted each other as family. My extended family now includes a living Maa, 2 additional sisters and an additional brother - all of whom by chance are Hindu! After some time with them, I venture into the city to view temples, and often make it to the likes of Rishikesh, Haridwar, etc if times and finance permits. This will be the first time in the 5 years that I've known them that we will be celebrating Diwali together. This year I'm also hoping to see Sant Sri Asaramji Bapu
as well. For those that don't know, a tourist Visa for those traveling from the US has a restriction that places visits at least two months apart as part of India's anti-terrorism laws. That's why I don't go more often if I could.

I guess to keep things in the theme of this thread, I would have to truly say that my family makes me richer than the finest silks that one could happen to find.

[smaranam]

Namaste

A website that one must visit for vegan (and spiritual) items is Natural Nirvana (http://www.naturalnirvana.com/). By some KRshNa devotees in Gainsville Florida. (It is not just leather and silk, what about soaps, creams, and cosmetics ? )

Looks like a store by devotees for devotees. Is it not a 'bit of a coincidence' that the new KRshNa-Balaram mandir is in Gainsville ? And also that they are neighbors to the Alachua FL Krishna.com team and Krishna Store ?

Also, this came up: http://www.vegforlife.org/wears_co's.htm

praNAm

[smaranam]

...would not wear those T-shirts however, with Deity paintings.

[Arjuni]

Namasté, all,

In the interest of fairness: I did a little additional reading on the subject, and it seems that the "peace" silk may not be the ideal solution after all.

Counter-point article/explanation is here (http://www.wormspit.com/peacesilk.htm).

Indraneela
===
Oṁ Indrāya Namaḥ.
Oṁ Namaḥ Śivāya.