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ScottMalaysia
16 January 2010, 07:37 PM
Namaste all,

How strict are you when it comes to vegetarian food? Do you simply not eat meat and eggs, or do you check the ingredients of every food item you buy, making sure that there aren't any animal products in it? Who checks the E numbers on food packets to make sure that they're vegetarian? And if something has an additive that can be derived either from plants or animals (like E442) but it's not stated which, would you eat the product or not?

In short, which method do you use to determine whether you will eat something?

1. Vegetarian until proven non-vegetarian, or
2. Non-vegetarian until proven vegetarian

I use Number 2.

Please share your thoughts.

Jivattatva
16 January 2010, 09:43 PM
Namaste Scott

Number 2 for me. I always read the ingredients.

But you know it is hard because even if you read the ingredients there are stuff that you dont know from which it is derived . And you have to decide while holding the foodstuff if you will buy it. No time to google about the ingredient !!

I have been a vegetarian for a long time so I have accumulated some knowledge about some ingredients. I also have a background in food science so it helps.

My advice is to read the details in the packet and make a decision hoping for the best.

Eastern Mind
17 January 2010, 07:39 AM
Vanakkam Scott:

I always read ingredients,too. There are a few notable exceptions, that I just don't worry about. One is rennet in cheese, although I eat very little cheese. Another is hidden gelatin. It is in ice cream sometimes, but I would only encounter that if it was an outside the house or a treat on the road. Another is gelatin medicine capsules. Still I try for tablets, but some prescriptions come in no other ways. There is a 'vegetable' gelatin available though, but you never know when it's used. Another situation is cookies or muffins at a restaurant or a western friend's house and you are avoiding being rude by eating it.

I figure my intake of non veg is maybe once in ten days, and then it would be about 50 milligrams at the most. I just think its incredibly difficult, and I don't want to get wrapped up in vegetarianism becoming the focus. God Siva is my focus.

Aum Namasivaya

Jivattatva
17 January 2010, 02:42 PM
Vanakkam Scott:

I always read ingredients,too. There are a few notable exceptions, that I just don't worry about. One is rennet in cheese, although I eat very little cheese. Another is hidden gelatin. It is in ice cream sometimes, but I would only encounter that if it was an outside the house or a treat on the road. Another is gelatin medicine capsules. Still I try for tablets, but some prescriptions come in no other ways. There is a 'vegetable' gelatin available though, but you never know when it's used. Another situation is cookies or muffins at a restaurant or a western friend's house and you are avoiding being rude by eating it.

I figure my intake of non veg is maybe once in ten days, and then it would be about 50 milligrams at the most. I just think its incredibly difficult, and I don't want to get wrapped up in vegetarianism becoming the focus. God Siva is my focus.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste EasternMind

The vegetable gelatin you are talking about is "agar" and I know that they use the word agar to describe it in the ingredient list, no other name.

Eastern Mind
17 January 2010, 03:31 PM
Namaste EasternMind

The vegetable gelatin you are talking about is "agar" and I know that they use the word agar to describe it in the ingredient list, no other name.

I know about agar from high school science, but do you know if the capsules for medicine are also agar? Here's hoping.

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
18 January 2010, 04:34 AM
Vanakkam Scott:

I always read ingredients,too. There are a few notable exceptions, that I just don't worry about. One is rennet in cheese, although I eat very little cheese.

You are aware that rennet comes from the stomachs of slaughtered calves, right? I was very upset tonight because I discovered that whey powder contains rennet (it's a by-product of cheese manufacture) which means that I can't eat it since it's made from dead calves. The Rig Veda states: "Do not harm the cow, for in so doing, you are harming the earth and all of humanity." (Rig Veda 8.101.15)


Another is hidden gelatin. It is in ice cream sometimes, but I would only encounter that if it was an outside the house or a treat on the road. Another is gelatin medicine capsules. Still I try for tablets, but some prescriptions come in no other ways. There is a 'vegetable' gelatin available though, but you never know when it's used. Another situation is cookies or muffins at a restaurant or a western friend's house and you are avoiding being rude by eating it.

So you would eat food containing non-veg ingredients if you were served it at a friend's house? I would say "Sorry, I'm vegetarian".


I figure my intake of non veg is maybe once in ten days, and then it would be about 50 milligrams at the most. I just think its incredibly difficult, and I don't want to get wrapped up in vegetarianism becoming the focus. God Siva is my focus.

It's very difficult. I don't understand why companies don't just write "Suitable for vegetarians" or "Not suitable for vegetarians" on the packaging. I've only seen one company (RJ Licorice) that does such a thing. It only takes a couple of inches of packet space.

Eastern Mind
18 January 2010, 08:36 AM
You are aware that rennet comes from the stomachs of slaughtered calves, right? I was very upset tonight because I discovered that whey powder contains rennet (it's a by-product of cheese manufacture) which means that I can't eat it since it's made from dead calves. The Rig Veda states: "Do not harm the cow, for in so doing, you are harming the earth and all of humanity." (Rig Veda 8.101.15)


So you would eat food containing non-veg ingredients if you were served it at a friend's house? I would say "Sorry, I'm vegetarian".


It's very difficult. I don't understand why companies don't just write "Suitable for vegetarians" or "Not suitable for vegetarians" on the packaging. I've only seen one company (RJ Licorice) that does such a thing. It only takes a couple of inches of packet space.


Vannakkam Scottji: I tried to explain in another post how I just don't consider this part of ahimsa as absolute. That's too Christian for me .. thinking in those terms of absolutes. If we get into absolute ahimsa, we couldn't drive cars because of hitting insects, go for walks, or in fact, even breathe. So there is some middle area that each of us has to discover. I've found mine.

Yes, I'm very aware of what rennet is, and how they try to hide it by using other terms like microbial enzyme.

The other houses situation was mainly my mother-in-law before she passed away and it was egg in cookies. In that case it was weighing two dharmas, and one of them was 'Respect Your Elders' which we've already discussed. If it was blatantly obvious, like meat, of course I'd say "I'm a vegetarian and refuse.

Although the packaging laws are there, I don't completely trust them. Same thing for restaurants that serve both. For example, when we're travelling in the west, sometimes we'll stop for a veggie burger. (Across midwestern America, it would be very hard to find Indian vegetarian restaurants anywhere.) Now I don't ask to go to the kitchen to see if there is a separate griddle for veggie burgers. They probably just do a good wiping of the grease before starting. There could easily be micro amounts of lard, but like I said, it wouldn't bother me. I just don't have the time to spend my life overly worrying about such things.

Aum Namasivaya

Sherab
18 January 2010, 11:25 AM
EM,

great posts. I am still non-veg, but of course, i am slowly progressing on this path...

namaste

Chris
24 January 2010, 09:30 AM
I know about agar from high school science, but do you know if the capsules for medicine are also agar? Here's hoping.

Aum Namasivaya

Unfortunately usually not (http://www.holistic-herbalist.com/vegetarian-capsules.html). Sometimes vegetarian capsules are used, but that is more likely for vitamins and supplements than for actual medicine. I have to admit that though I check food ingredients and vitamins I don't check medicines.

LALKAR
24 January 2010, 10:36 AM
Namaste All,

I am Hardcore Vegitarian, but it is difficult now to difine

for example during my childhood days when I come to know that Cake and Pastries contains egg, I become coutious, I eat them only if it come from vegitarian bakery
Those days anything containing egg costed more,so even ordinary bakery can not sell egg cakes for less profit
Now these things need more creem and eggless cakes become costly, so anybody can claim their product eggless. I become coutious so stopped eating them, now I eat only home made cakes, as I am sure about it

NetiNeti
27 January 2010, 03:24 PM
Number 2. Unless I am sure it is Veg, I dont eat it! Part of Ahimsa is the effort it takes to make sure you are not participating in the slaugther of animals. Not doing so shows a shaky moral foundation. Caring about the welfare of all creatures means sometimes going hungry until you find something that is 100% vegetarian,.

Einherjar
16 February 2010, 03:36 PM
I've actually just recently decided to become vegetarian and I've been thinking about how to deal with issues like this. It's never something I'd even considered before so I'm having a hard time figuring out what contains by-products of animal death and what does not.

So for now I'm trying to stick to fruits, and vegetables mostly.

ScottMalaysia
16 February 2010, 04:15 PM
I've actually just recently decided to become vegetarian and I've been thinking about how to deal with issues like this. It's never something I'd even considered before so I'm having a hard time figuring out what contains by-products of animal death and what does not.

So for now I'm trying to stick to fruits, and vegetables mostly.

I know, it's hard. However, there are resources to help you. Food additives are classified with E numbers. Here is a list of E numbers that may not be vegetarian.

http://www.vegsoc.org/info/enumbers.html

E120 (Cochineal) is always non-vegetarian (and also non-halal). So is gelatine (441). There are vegetarian alternatives to gelatine such as agar-agar, but these won't be caled "gelatine" on food packets. If it says "halal gelatine" then avoid it like the plague - halal gelatine is made from slaughtered cows because Muslims can't eat pigs. Always check packets to see if there is any gelatine in the product.

The other E numbers on the list may be made from either plant or animal sources. The products from both sources are often chemically identical so they are not differentiated on the packaging. If you are in doubt, write to the manufacturer to ask him if their additives are from plant or animal origin. I recently received a reply from Streets about the Vienetta ice cream - their E471 is vegetarian.

Glycerin(e) may also be derived from animal products, so avoid it unless you know that it comes from a vegetarian source.

If you're planning to go vegetarian, here are some things to look out for that aren't immediately apparent.

Cheese - most cheese is made with rennet that comes from the stomachs of slaughtered calves. Rennet is used to separate curds from whey. Vegetable rennet is available, so look out for vegetarian cheese which uses this.

Whey powder - mainly found in biscuits. May contain rennet so avoid.

Soap - often made from animal fats and containing glycerin. Look for soaps that say "no animal fats". If you have an Indian grocer in your neighbourhood, they may have some vegetarian soaps imported from India.

Shaving foam - may contain glycerin.

As Hindus, we wish to avoid being part of animal slaughter. Therefore, we don't use any product that came from killing an animal. This rules out leather, lambskin, silk, pearls, and fur. Fortunately all these are available in fake varieites. So if you have genuine leather shoes, wallet and belt, you should get rid of them and get fake leather ones.

ravrajsharma
16 February 2010, 04:18 PM
I always stick to Number2 as well!!!

I have a tendency to critically read the ingredients and keep a lookout for the items mentioned - gelatine, rennet, albumen, egg, etc.

Thanks a lot for mentioning the E*** figures, :headscratch: didnt have an idea about these.

I know that 80% of the yeast that i have encounted in supermarkets "are processed on equipments that handle egg" or "may contain traces of egg". The one which was "clean" was most expensive. Questions arise which ones are utilized in everyday breads....

Eastern Mind has made a very logical point. There does seem to be deliberate misleading of public by using chemical terminology instead of plain English.

I have just seem only a couple of items which are labelled "Suitable for Vegetarians" which i consume without hesitation. As Scott has mentioned companies should be more clear and concise.

This article is a interesting reading

http://www.vrg.org/nutshell/faqingredients.htm

Cheers
Ravi

Eastern Mind
16 February 2010, 04:24 PM
I've actually just recently decided to become vegetarian and I've been thinking about how to deal with issues like this. It's never something I'd even considered before so I'm having a hard time figuring out what contains by-products of animal death and what does not.

So for now I'm trying to stick to fruits, and vegetables mostly.

I wouldn't be overly paranoid or worried initially personally. If you've read the whole thread, you get the idea about diversity. Over time you get to know what you yourself are comfortable with. You could starve yourself that way. In the subtlest most complex sense, everything would contain byproducts of animal death. If the driver of the truck who brought you the rice was non-veg, some would say that his gross vibration may have impacted the rice. Obviously to most , that would be going overboard.

Aum namasivaya

Einherjar
17 February 2010, 05:27 PM
Cheese - most cheese is made with rennet that comes from the stomachs of slaughtered calves. Rennet is used to separate curds from whey. Vegetable rennet is available, so look out for vegetarian cheese which uses this.

Whey powder - mainly found in biscuits. May contain rennet so avoid.

Soap - often made from animal fats and containing glycerin. Look for soaps that say "no animal fats". If you have an Indian grocer in your neighbourhood, they may have some vegetarian soaps imported from India.

Shaving foam - may contain glycerin.

As Hindus, we wish to avoid being part of animal slaughter. Therefore, we don't use any product that came from killing an animal. This rules out leather, lambskin, silk, pearls, and fur. Fortunately all these are available in fake varieites. So if you have genuine leather shoes, wallet and belt, you should get rid of them and get fake leather ones.

I've already read about rennet and it worried me immensely at first. Though I've read from a couple of places that the use of animal rennet is, in this day and age, almost entirely restricted to cheeses produced in Europe. Do you know if there's any truth to that? Once I learned about it I've been looking at the ingredients on the food I have at home and at the homes of friends. So far the only thing I've found on any package of cheese is "Enzymes". Which seems extremely ambiguous.

I don't know why, but I didn't even think of the soap and shaving cream issue. Thanks for the heads up on that.

Eastern Mind
17 February 2010, 06:46 PM
Vannakkam:

"Enzymes' is rennet.

Aum Namasivaya

Einherjar
26 February 2010, 05:23 PM
Thanks for the clarification. I went out and bought some vegetarian cheese. Surprisingly, it tastes just as good as normal cheese that uses animal rennet.

Eastern Mind
26 February 2010, 05:57 PM
Vannakkam:

A long time ago I actually phoned a major cheese distributor and spoke with their PR guy. He said the only reason they use animal rennet (which by the way is a relatively minor ingredient) was that they were in long term contracts with rennet suppliers, and that that was the only reason. It had nothing to do with quality of product, or even price. The meat industry wants to keep their little side industries alive as well, I guess.

Aum Namasivaya