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Tirisilex
17 January 2010, 05:49 PM
I wondered.. Is it a myth or a fact? This site pretty much makes up for it..

http://www.weirdasianews.com/2008/08/31/secret-behind-indian-guru-levitation-revealed/


But I wonder.. There must be an authentic guru / yogi out there who can levitate without wires or sticks..

Eastern Mind
17 January 2010, 07:00 PM
I wondered.. Is it a myth or a fact? This site pretty much makes up for it..

http://www.weirdasianews.com/2008/08/31/secret-behind-indian-guru-levitation-revealed/


But I wonder.. There must be an authentic guru / yogi out there who can levitate without wires or sticks..

Vanakkam Tirisilex; Personally I would be very surprised if a guru who could do it would do it. There would be no point from that level of loss of ego.

Aum Namasivaya

rainycity
18 January 2010, 02:58 AM
if people could levitate, it would be a known fact by now, unless there's a good reason why people who can levitate would never demonstrate it publically like eastern mind is suggesting.

surtibadshah
18 January 2010, 04:11 AM
thats a scam i have seen a video on youtube how they cheat.

thats not impossible.

NetiNeti
27 January 2010, 03:33 PM
Yeah. My thing with all this floating business is that if someone is going out of their way to show me how "holy" the are by doing some trick then that means they aren't holy enogh to convince me through selfless action and conversation.

If someone is full of God they would'nt have to resort to fantastic feats to prove it. Anandamayi Ma didn't have to make ash appear or materialize objects to change the world. She did it through palpable love for God that was felt by many. I am very wary of those who use wonders to get my attention. I am more attracted to devotion and proper actions.

yajvan
27 January 2010, 09:58 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


There is no doubt ( in my mind) that this ability exists... this lightness (laghu¹) is called out in Patañjali’s yogadarśana.
Yet regarding the person in the picture - this has been around now for a few years. What benefit this person sees in pretending to rise in the air I do not know.


praṇām

words
laghu - light , quick , swift; not heavy

sambya
28 January 2010, 03:43 AM
levitation can be achieved and is one of the ashta siddhis -- of eight miraculous powers that a man can aqquire through devoted penance and yogic restraints . it is known as laghima coming from the word laghu which means light .

however , spirituality has nothing to with such miraculous powers . infact such powers are against spritual progress in ones life . it makes one focus more and more on ones own self and forget his true purpose of self realization . this inreases and nurtures ego which automatically brings about his ruin . most genuine gurus , leaders and avatars of mankind have shunned these occult powers . the small miracles that men like buddha and jesus showed in healing diseased etc , was not through ego but as a result of unbound compassion . but for ordinary sadhaks utilising their powers for such activities are bound to drag in ego and stop his progress .

miracles are no measure for spiritual attainment !! this is crucial thing that most in modern world seem to forget ! purity of character is the sole determinant of spritual eligibilty .

a guru who levitates is no guru at all !

yajvan
28 January 2010, 11:42 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté sambya (et.al)




infact such powers are against spritual progress in ones life . it makes one focus more and more on ones own self and forget his true purpose of self realization . this inreases and nurtures ego which automatically brings about his ruin

While your points are reasonable - I disagree. This conversation has come up at HDF again and again¹. It is very in vogue to consider that these abilities in some way harm the (serious) aspirant, and to this again I disagree.

Patañjali’s wisdom is great - why would he offer something that harms? For these siddhi-s to occur , a self-purifying method must be practiced and siddhi-s compliment this. It DOES NOT occur just by repeating the formula in one's mind or on the lips. Much purification must be done before these siddhi-s bear fruit. With this purity comes clarity of mind, keen intellect and discrimination on how or even if to use these abilities.

The core of siddhi-s
What Patañjali offers in his Yogadarśana i.e. formula's for siddhi-s . This formula is called saṁyama. There are multiple HDF posts regarding saṁyama¹, yet let me offer a POV.
Saṁyama (संयम) defined by Monier Williams Dictionary is considered holding together , restraint , control; concentration of mind. Yet I find this a 'clinical' definition, devoid of practice or experience. The sense of control may be mis-leading to many. The word control comes with the following:

dominate, command, to hold in check and more extremely to eliminate or prevent the flourishing or spread ( like in controlling a forest fire perhaps).I not a fan of the word 'control' as it suggests effort. With effort expended saṁyama becomes a fleeting idea that one does not capture. This saṁyama is more towards the notion of holding together, gently, then 'restraining or controlling' . It's a very delicate thing that happens when practiced.

If I had to define it i.e. the Monier Williams Dictionary offer, I would not do much better then their entry, but would add one operative word, formula. This saṁyama is the formula for (gently and with minimum effort) holding together dhāraṅā, dhyāna, and samādhi within the field of consciousness.

I ask the reader to review chapter 3, where Patañjali offers in the 5th sūtra, the fruit of saṁyama - it says by mastering that (saṁyama) the light of knowledge (prajñā) dawns. What does this mean? Saṁyama firmly establishes the purity and the integration that is attained in samādhi.

This is the fruit, the siddhi's are not. If one confuses this message, then one has given up a diamond for the price of spinach.

praṇām

references

More on saṁyama at these HDF posts:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2507&highlight=samyama (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2507&highlight=samyama)

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1382&highlight=samyama (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1382&highlight=samyama)
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=22005&postcount=22 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=22005&postcount=22)

Eastern Mind
28 January 2010, 01:10 PM
Vanakkam Yajvan et al:

My two bits:

Siddhis are normal stages of advanced knowledge, usually coming AFTER self-realisation. However, misuse or adharmic use of them would be unwise.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
28 January 2010, 02:02 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté EM (et.al)


My two bits:
Siddhis are normal stages of advanced knowledge, usually coming AFTER self-realisation. However, misuse or adharmic use of them would be unwise.
Aum Namasivaya

Let me ask you and the HDF reader to consider the following that has a direct bearing on this subject you offer:
One must ask , why is this dharma-megha samādhi found in the 4th chapter and not back in chapter 1 samādhi pāda? Because chapter 4 is kavela pāda:

kevala केवल - brings one to the conclusion, entirely , wholly , absolutely; Kevala is alone , only , mere , sole , one , excluding others . That is, the establishment in the SELF. Kevala is considered liberation and the absolute unity to the Divine. Why call this dharma-megha samādhi ?

dharma धर्म - that which is established or firm steadfast ; virtue
megha मेघ - 'sprinkler' , a cloudWhat's my point?
If siddhi-s came after this expansion i.e. dharma-megha samādhi, then Patañjali would have placed vibhūti¹ pāda as the last chapter...after kavela. His work is sequential, from Chapter 1, samādhi pāda to chapter 4, kavela pāda. That is, each chapter works in concert with the next. Some may call it a prerequisite .
Such is the brilliance of Patañjali-ji who operates, thinks, and acts from enlightened vision, an exponent of Reality.

praṇām

words

vibhūti - great power , consisting of eight faculties i.e. aṇiman , the power of becoming as minute as an atom ; laghiman , extreme lightness ; prākāmya , irresistible will ; mahiman , illimitable bulk ; īśitā , etc.

Eastern Mind
28 January 2010, 04:04 PM
Yajvan: Oh you're probably right. I was just making comments as to someone's suggestion as to the unholiness of it... or ego of it. Having said that, I do believe there are quite a few different siddhis. Perhaps some come before others too. That's a possibility. Masters even speak from their own experience. I don't know. Its all a long ways above me, other that from what I learned from reading books, or listening to other's words.

Clearly you have studied Patanjali more than I have.

I have witnessed someone using siddhis once or twice, quite by accident, I think. You never know. Certainly it wasn't to show off to me. But then again, I wouldn't relate this stuff to many people unless I saw a purpose, and I'm just the observer of the siddhi, not the doer of one.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
28 January 2010, 08:21 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


Why do I comment on this subject? I am hopeful to bring a level of understanding to this matter. Many times what we hear becomes confused, conversations become facts and is taken a truth. This then perpetuates over time, and for me, I see this as a less then desirable condition.


EM offers the following,

Perhaps some (siddhi-s) come before others too


This is true. This is the 'grooming' process. But lets talk about the macro-grooming process. Lets say one is of a tamasic nature and says I wish to pursue these siddhi's - I want to be great, to own this power. What happens? their intent is weak and they give up in a short time because of their nature. But let's say they stay-the-course and keep to the practice. No siddhi's will unfold until there is purification.


Purifcation is the infusion of sattva. What occurs? Tamas is being washed away. One's selfish intent in the beginning is superceded
by the sattvic expansion, and one's intent changes to spiritual unfoldment. Siddhi becomes a vehicle - more specifically Saṁyama is that vehicle. So, if you start with mischief on your mind, you do not end with it, you end in the uplifted condition spurred by sattva.


So all this nervousness of promoting ego or a person getting stuck in some rut of siddhi-possession is for me, something I do not buy into.

praṇām