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rainycity
18 January 2010, 03:04 AM
How do we determine whether or not the supernatural, the spiritual, the metaphysical, whatever you wish to call it, is objectivley real?
Empirical science has never caught a whiff of any of these metaphysical things. Why do you think that is?
A lot of believers I've noticed disagree with what is considered objective and subjective by western empiricism. No body has been able to show that anything spiritual has any objective reality. Doesn't this mean that nobody should believe in the objective reality of anything spiritual?

sanjaya
18 January 2010, 03:32 AM
I notice that a lot of people in both Eastern and Western religions make statements like "there is no truth." Personally I believe that the abandonment of objective truth is a mistake. The very purpose of Hinduism is to strive towards the ultimate truth, that is, God. This presupposes that there is such a thing as truth. Deciding what's real is another matter, and is complicated by God's maya. But I believe that the acknowledgment of an absolute truth is important.

rainycity
18 January 2010, 03:46 AM
The very purpose of Hinduism is to strive towards the ultimate truth, that is, God. This presupposes that there is such a thing as truth.

It also presupposes that there is such a thing as God.



Deciding what's real is another matter, and is complicated by God's maya.

but how do you decide there is such a thing as God's maya?

Eastern Mind
18 January 2010, 08:19 AM
Vannakam Rainycity:
Faith is so complicated, and so individualised at the same time. I think that science will eventually 'catch up' as it did with the flat earth theory. But that's another discussion. I remember meeting several newcomers to temples. Most just sort of saw the place as a building. But then there were others. These are are actual quotes I remember. "Does your religion believe in some sort of energy?" and "There's 'something' in there."

So if a billion people on the planet can 'feel that energy' I'm guessing there's something to it. In the end I personally don't think it really matters if one thinks its illusion, relatively real, only real to the individual, or absolutely real, which would be the 'truth' that Sanjaya mentioned.

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
18 January 2010, 01:55 PM
It also presupposes that there is such a thing as God.

Yes that's true. But I think that believe in the existence of God is quite a reasonable assumption. For thousands of years God has become incarnate in the form of men, and countless people have talked to him this way. It is possible even to experience God through meditation, yoga, and prayer. For these reasons, the existence of God seems rather apparent to me.




but how do you decide there is such a thing as God's maya?

The maya is mentioned in many Hindu Scriptures. Here is one example:

This divine power (Maya) of Mine, consisting of three states of matter or mind, is very difficult to overcome. Only those who surrender unto Me easily cross over this Maya. (BG 7.14)
Obviously there's no direct test that can be used to deduce the existence of the maya. But if you trust that what God is saying is true, then you'll arrive at this conclusion.