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orlando
29 August 2006, 12:02 PM
Namaste all.
What is the right age of marriage for a hindu man?
Regards,
Orlando.

sarabhanga
29 August 2006, 10:37 PM
Namaste,




What is the right age of marriage?




When education is complete (after at least 6 years, but preferably after 12 years of studentship) the fruits of their parent’s inspiration are ready for their own marriage, and Grihastha Ashrama.

orlando
30 August 2006, 09:37 AM
Namaste Shri Sharabhanga Giri.
I have not been able to understand your reply.
What do you mean by "studentship"?Material studenship at school or Brahmacharya ashrama?
Studenship under the guide of a guru?
Please,I request you to explain better what you did mean to tell me.
P.S:folks,please note that I am contrary to arranged marriage!
Regards,
Orlando.

sarabhanga
30 August 2006, 07:33 PM
Namaste Orlando,

What is the varna of this hypothetical Hindu man?

orlando
31 August 2006, 10:30 AM
Namaste Orlando,

What is the varna of this hypothetical Hindu man?

Namaste Shri Sarabhanga Giri.
Since I am only 19 years old,I am more an hindu boy than an hindu man.
I am a shudra.
In my life I always worked in shudra jobs like bricklayer,barber,etc.
In these days I am without a job.
But of course I will find again a shudra job.
Of course I belong to shudra varna.
Regards,
Orlando.

sarabhanga
01 September 2006, 09:08 PM
Namaste Orlando,

From a superficial reckoning, your manual labor may mark you as Shudra; but if you have been schooled (in whatever fashion) and you have a firm belief (despite all of the confusion and suffering of worldly existence) in the ultimate existence of a sole Divinity that is the creative source, the animating principle, and the final return of all THIS, then your (spiritual) varna would be Vaishya.

If you are satisfied with that lot, then you should marry soon after your schooling is completed, establish some means of financial support from some suitable employment, raise a family together with your wife, and live happily ever after (following your Dharma, of course).

If you devote yourself to a Brahmana Guru, and follow his/her wise example and instructions, then you will immediately take the spiritual varna of a Kshatriya.

If you intend to be recognized as a Brahmana in this life, then there is no time to lose. Devote yourself to sacred study and practice, and do not expect marriage at any stage.

Bhakti Yoga Seeker
02 September 2006, 07:59 PM
Namaste Shri Sarabhanga Giri.
Since I am only 19 years old,I am more an hindu boy than an hindu man.
I am a shudra.
In my life I always worked in shudra jobs like bricklayer,barber,etc.
In these days I am without a job.
But of course I will find again a shudra job.
Of course I belong to shudra varna.
Regards,
Orlando.

I am curious as to why you consider yourself a Shudra although I don't want to change the topic here. Is this a combination of circumstances as well as personal preference? Anyway, good luck finding another job. I disagree with you that you say because you are 19 you are more of a boy than a man. What makes a person an adult in my opinion is their maturity level with a very small emphasis on their actual age. Anyway, I can't really give you any advice on your original question about marriage for a Hindu man except for the fact that if you meet the right woman and the circumstances are right, then I would go for it. Namaste. ;) ~BYS~

mblova
02 September 2006, 09:46 PM
do you feel you are mature enough get married?

orlando
04 September 2006, 10:21 AM
Namaste all.
Mblova said:

do you feel you are mature enough get married?
No,I am not yet ready yo get marriage.

I my-self found the answer in the book
http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/dws/images/dws_cover.jpg

By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/dws/dws_mandala-16.html
What Is the Basis for a Happy Marriage?
SLOKA 76

A happy marriage is based first and foremost on a mature love, not a romantic ideal of love. It requires selflessness and constant attention. A successful marriage is one which both partners work at making successful. Aum.


A woman finishes painting her eyebrows as her sister adjusts a sash. She is preparing for her husband's return from tending sheep. He brings a garland and places it around her neck. The Gods look on, subtly guiding their maturing marriage.
BHASHYA

While not all marriages must be arranged, there is wisdom in arranged marriages, which have always been an important part of Hindu culture. Their success lies in the families' judgment to base the union on pragmatic matters which will outlast the sweetest infatuation and endure through the years. The ideal age for women is from 18 to 25, men from 21 to 30. Stability is enhanced if the boy has completed his education, established earnings through a profession and is at least five years older than the girl. Mature love includes accepting obligations, duties and even difficulties. The couple should be prepared to work with their marriage, not expecting it to take care of itself. It is good for bride and groom to write out a covenant by hand, each pledging to fulfill certain duties and promises. They should approach the marriage as holy, advancing both partners spiritually. It is important to marry a spouse who is dependable, chaste and serious about raising children in the Hindu way, and then worship and pray together. The Vedas say, "Devoted to sacrifice, gathering wealth, they serve the Immortal and honor the Gods, united in mutual love." Aum Namah Sivaya.



However,as I already said earlier I am contrary to arranged marriages.
BhaktiYogaSeeker said:

I am curious as to why you consider yourself a Shudra although I don't want to change the topic here. Is this a combination of circumstances as well as personal preference? Anyway, good luck finding another job. I disagree with you that you say because you are 19 you are more of a boy than a man. What makes a person an adult in my opinion is their maturity level with a very small emphasis on their actual age. Anyway, I can't really give you any advice on your original question about marriage for a Hindu man except for the fact that if you meet the right woman and the circumstances are right, then I would go for it. Namaste. ~BYS~

I am a shudra because in my life I always worked in shudra jobs.
Shri Sarabhanga,I am surprised to read the following:

If you intend to be recognized as a Brahmana in this life, then there is no time to lose. Devote yourself to sacred study and practice, and do not expect marriage at any stage.
Please note that I want to get married to an hindu woman and I wish to have a normal sexual life with my wife.This means that I will not follow the rule "sex only for procreation".
I decided to take a brahmacharya vrata(chastity vow) until marriage.But when I will get married,I repeat that I will have a normal sexual life.

By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/lws/lws_ch-10.html
Brahmacharya literally means Godly conduct, which in practice and by tradition means celibacy, complete abstinence from sexual relations. Brahmacharya is practiced traditionally by: 1) monastics; 2) young persons living at home with parents prior to entering marriage or a monastery; 3) single persons living alone in the world; and 4) married couples who observe celibacy in later life, generally after age sixty.

Now I belong to number 2.One day,if I will find the right hindu woman and the circumstances will be right,I will belong to number 4.

Shri Sarabhanga,you said:
If you devote yourself to a Brahmana Guru, and follow his/her wise example and instructions, then you will immediately take the spiritual varna of a Kshatriya.

Very strange indeed!Will that make me a Kshatriya?!I have not the qualifications to be a Kshatriya.
Please read what Lord Krishna says in Bhagavad-Gita,Chapter 18.By http://vedabase.net/bg/18/en
41. Brāhmaṇas, kṣatriyas, vaiśyas and śūdras are distinguished by the qualities born of their own natures in accordance with the material modes, O chastiser of the enemy.
42.Peacefulness, self-control, austerity, purity, tolerance, honesty, knowledge, wisdom and religiousness — these are the natural qualities by which the brāhmaṇas work.
43.Heroism, power, determination, resourcefulness, courage in battle, generosity and leadership are the natural qualities of work for the kṣatriyas.
44.Farming, cow protection and business are the natural work for the vaiśyas, and for the śūdras there is labor and service to others.
45.By following his qualities of work, every man can become perfect. Now please hear from Me how this can be done.
46.By worship of the Lord, who is the source of all beings and who is all-pervading, a man can attain perfection through performing his own work.
47.It is better to engage in one's own occupation, even though one may perform it imperfectly, than to accept another's occupation and perform it perfectly. Duties prescribed according to one's nature are never affected by sinful reactions.
48.Every endeavor is covered by some fault, just as fire is covered by smoke. Therefore one should not give up the work born of his nature, O son of Kuntī, even if such work is full of fault.


I am sure to be a shudra.
One day,thanks to the money gained tough my future job,I'd like to open a vegetarian restaurant.Maybe that will make me a Vaishya,since I will be a merchant.However the future is unknown to me.And it will not be easy to open a restaurant.

Regards,
Orlando.

sarabhanga
04 September 2006, 06:42 PM
Orlando,

If you are surprised by my comments, it is only because you have not grasped ANY of my posts on the matter of of Varna, both here and on HinduNet forum.

Yes, it is clear that you are a Shudra, but opening a vegetarian restaurant will NOT make you a Vaisya ~ little knowledge is required, but it does require true faith in Dharma for a Shudra to be raised to the spiritual shade of a Vaishya.

"I have not the qualifications to be a Kshatriya" ~ i.e. (from your accepted definition) you have no determination, no courage, no generosity, and no leadership ~ and yet most of your previous posts have been talking about gaining supernatural powers in order to control the world according to your own wishes!

Perhaps you will not understand even these remarks, but please do not expect any further elaboration (it would only be wasting time for both of us).

orlando
05 September 2006, 09:55 AM
Namaste Shri Sarabhanga.
You said:

I have not the qualifications to be a Kshatriya" ~ i.e. (from your accepted definition) you have no determination, no courage, no generosity, and no leadership ~ and yet most of your previous posts have been talking about gaining supernatural powers in order to control the world according to your own wishes!


Where did I say that I want to control the world?????????????????
I wish to obtain siddhis in order to help people (for example,healing people with some disease) and for my own personal pleasure.To control the world requires to be a powerful being like Hiranyakasipu or Ravana!
You told me that one who wants siddhi can't obtain them tough yoga.Of course I will have to follow other methods:for example mantra-siddhi.Extreme mortification aren't a good idea for me.The chimicanl means(like drugs) are poison for the body and for the soul.
I will have to get initiated from a guru in mantra-siddhi.One mantra will give me a power.Another mantra will give me another power.In order to be a very powerful siddha,I should get initiated in many mantras!!!!
I don't know if this is possible.
And regarding the "control of the world",please note that I am not interested in the "dark side of the force".
I want the light side.
However I don't need further elaboration.I did understand what you mean to say in your post.
Regards,
Orlando.

orlando
05 September 2006, 12:08 PM
Namaste all.
Folks,please read the answer that I had in hindunetforum.
By http://www.hindunet.com/forum/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=69607&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

I dont remember any explanation as to when one belonging to shudra sect is to marry, but if you're talking about "born into a shudra family" please refrain from that.

All dwijas (braahmans - intellectual; kshatriyas - administrative; vaisya - business-minded) are to marry minimum after the age of 24.

orlando
20 September 2006, 10:03 AM
Orlando,

If you are surprised by my comments, it is only because you have not grasped ANY of my posts on the matter of of Varna, both here and on HinduNet forum.



Namaste.
Shri Sarabhanga Giri,I was surprised only because of the following reason:by reading my posts both here and on HinduNet forum you should have understand that a person like me is not made to be a Brahmana.I think that by reading my posts one can understand what kind of person I am.How can you expect that a person like me would wish become a Brahmana????:eek:
To be a Brahmana requires a austere life.I am not still read to leave all wordly pleasures(listening to music,watch film in DVD,sexual life with married partner,etc).
I will never can be a brahmana.
I repeat:How can you expect that a person like me would wish become a Brahmana????
If someone believes that a person like me could become a Brahmana,then one should even believe that Hitler and Stalin were holy people!!:eek: :D

Regards,
Orlando.

Arjuna
20 September 2006, 01:01 PM
To be a Brahmana requires a austere life.I am not still read to leave all wordly pleasures(listening to music,watch film in DVD,sexual life with married partner,etc).

Namaste,

There is no rule that a brahmana must reject all worldly pleasures. Normally he is NOT supposed to, but also have to pass all four ashramas, incl. grihastha. As an exception man can become sannyasi directly from being brahmachari, but this is an exception only.

Vedic brahmana MUST be married. If he is unmarried, he is disqualified from ANY Vedic rituals, including great Yajnas. A Guru or acharya for grihasthis preferrably has to be also married — and usually a brahmana.

In some sects of Hinduism no rejection of the world is implied at all for any upasaka, even a Siddha.

sarabhanga
20 September 2006, 10:26 PM
A Brahmana is one who knows the true word of God, and a Brahmacari is one who faithfully follows the transmitted instruction and aspires to truly know God.


I will never can be a brahmana.

OK Orlando, I give up.

orlando
21 September 2006, 08:46 AM
OK Orlando, I give up.

Thanks Shri Sarabhanga.I am happy to see that finally you did understand the truth about me.
Regards,
Orlando.

Sudarshan
24 September 2006, 02:09 PM
I think with the four fold classification, the religion has confused more people than it has satisfied.

In the modern context,

If you are employed or doing service for somebody you are a sudra, irrespective of what you claim to be. You may be earning a few lakh per month, but you are still a "white collared" sudra only.

If you do some business you can call yourself a Vaishiya.


If your job is the protection of other people in some way, a health worker, a soldier, Red cross etc, you are kind of Kshatriya - more of Karma Yoga, people who works selflessly for others and protect saints and sages.

If your main interest( perhaps the only) is connected with religion and God, you are a Brahmana. A Brahmin is not typically expected to seek employment and work under the orders of somebody, and he has God alone as his master. The thing is such kind of serving two masters, God and a human( who might be a staunch materialist) are not compatoble with a Brahmin. If your "boss' is doing some unfair things related to his business you will inherit the share of this sin, and for this reasons Brahmins do not seek employment. The Brahmana caste we have seen in the last 1000 years or so is a degenerate form of Brahmins, who are somewhat materialistic. A true Upanishadic Brahmin will court poverty, and will observe chastity, truthfulness and non violence of a high order, and will pass all activities in life directed at God Realization and achieve it in his lifetime. This was the only reason Brahmin was highly respected.


Apart from these, the four classes can be considered as various stages of spiritual evolution, and most people in the world are sudras or vaishiyas only. I dont think the caste system based on heredity is wrong, but has been misused and abused in the past, and probably a good idea not to bring out that evil again.

sarabhanga
24 September 2006, 07:44 PM
Serving two masters, God and a human (who might be a staunch materialist), is not compatible with a Brahmin.


The twin duty of every Brahmin is service to God AND service to humanity (indeed, all of God’s creation). And the duty of every Guru is serving between God AND his devotees. And in true practice, there can be no distinction made between the two!

agnimILe purohitaM yajñasya devamRt dvijam | hotAraM ratnadhAtamam ||

Sudarshan
25 September 2006, 03:42 AM
The twin duty of every Brahmin is service to God AND service to humanity (indeed, all of God’s creation). And the duty of every Guru is serving between God AND his devotees. And in true practice, there can be no distinction made between the two!

agnimILe purohitaM yajñasya devamRt dvijam | hotAraM ratnadhAtamam ||

Serving "humanity" and an individual money hungry master are different things. The former will not interfere with the service of God, but augment it. The latter is impossible unless the master shares your inclinations.