I love Krishna..

[Tirisilex]

I love Krishna sooooo much.. The more I think about him the more I believe in him.. He makes so much sense to me.. I'm so glad I chose to follow him.. or was it he who chose me?? I remember the day I decided to start following him.. I was in my Living room and I had a vision of him standing there.. He said "I will never Judge you. I will never dictate to you on how to live your life like how your "voices" do." Thats all what I needed.. I called the Boston ISKCON and I went down the week after and spoke to someone there.. He told me that Krishna would have said that.. I just feel so comfortable with Krishna and I'm not in fear or guilt.. I LOVE KRISHNA

I just needed to say that..

[Spiritualseeker]

Namaste,

hehe,I am glad you found a path that you love. I hope it allows you to grow into Self Realization here and now. Don't forget us in your prayers.

[Krsna Das]

Trisilex,

You love Krsna, you said? - Then you are my friend.

It doesen't really matter if you haven't read vedas and upanishads.

You know the essense of it.

Your Servant
Krsna Das

[grames]

You are the best of the best Prabhu!
You are the master of all devotees and my obeisances to you.


I love Krishna sooooo much.. The more I think about him the more I believe in him.. He makes so much sense to me.. I'm so glad I chose to follow him.. or was it he who chose me?? I remember the day I decided to start following him.. I was in my Living room and I had a vision of him standing there.. He said "I will never Judge you. I will never dictate to you on how to live your life like how your "voices" do." Thats all what I needed.. I called the Boston ISKCON and I went down the week after and spoke to someone there.. He told me that Krishna would have said that.. I just feel so comfortable with Krishna and I'm not in fear or guilt.. I LOVE KRISHNA

I just needed to say that..

[smaranam]

I love Krishna sooooo much.. The more I think about him the more I believe in him.. He makes so much sense to me.. I'm so glad I chose to follow him.. or was it he who chose me?? I remember the day I decided to start following him.. I was in my Living room and I had a vision of him standing there.. He said "I will never Judge you. I will never dictate to you on how to live your life ...

That is exactly Him. Krshna does not judge, even when one wants Him to.
He drives any fear , worry instantly out of the window. He is the resting place, all comfort and all that He promises in the Gita.

I am happy you found KRshna. He was always there, waiting for you to turn to Him.

My story is so similar.

At the time He walked up to me when I was looking for someone but did not know Who. I was lying in a desert, and He pulled me out of it, into a place of falling leaves.... and then to a steep road upto a gate .... and the rest is history.

VAsudevah sarvam iti . He is right beside each jiva, in and out, He is the SELF. If the jiva walks into His heart , blinds her by the light at the end of the tunnel of His heart , till nothing else can be seen - VAsudevah sarvam iti.

[Krsna Das]

Smaranam Ji,

Dandavat Pranamas.

So pl share with us, what is your story? How did you turn to Krsna?

My story is like this:

My spiritual journey in this life started when I was in school, in 12th standard. I had hobby of reading books before sleeping and most specifically stories. Once, I was looking for books and I realized there is none which I have not finished reading. Suddenly, my eyes glanced geeta, and it was Geet by Gorakhpur press, which also contained mahatamya for each chapter. I started reading mahatamya because they were like stories only. When i read mahatamya of all the chapters, i developed faith in Geeta and then started reading the chapters of geeta, and there it was, I developed faith in Krsna.

However, I was drawn later to the impersonal theory of brahma and at that time, I found this theory "all-encompassing" and very exciting also. So I started reading books related to advaita-philosophy, and even got diksa from a well known guru of advaita. I always used to perform dhyaan, in order to achieve a thought-less state. The realization of turiya-vastha was my goal. I used to think, once this turiya-vastha is realized, one can come to know that "I AM THAT"; And we already are, but we do not realize this..........................so on and so forth.

How-ever, In 1997, I attended a satsang which was organized by ISKCON. I liked kirtan of mahamantar - my all time favourite. I also purchased GB AS IT IS, and started reading it, but then kept it aside since I thought -"The explanation given by swami ji is not of my taste". I even used to think that when everything is brahm, there is actually no difference between Krsna and me because Krsna's real self is same as that of my real self, and so we both are actually one (my misconception at that time).

But I did used to visit ISKCON often, for hearing sankirtan. as the time went by, I gradually started reading books. When i came to know of mahaprabhu, i was really amazed that how Lord fulfills his promise to us "dharma sansthaapnarthaya sambhavami yuge yuge". I started reading about mahaprabhu and other books, and it was then that I realized the fallacy of shudhha-advaita-vada.

Then I started devoting more time to ISKCON, even house programmes. I started doing service in the temple, and used to get 03:00 early morning to attend the mangal arti.

However, in these 8-9 years in ISKCON, there were some questions, of which I was not able to find the answer, and more specifically, i was not able to accept somebody as my Guru-Maharaj, though there are so many nice maharajs over there.

Then I came across my Guru Maharaj, SriSrimad B.V Narayana Goswami maharaj and attended his satsang 6 years back in Noida. I also purchased some books compiled by him. When I read the books, I realized that he alone was my Guru, whome I had been searching for so many years. Surely Krsna arranged everything very mercifully for me.

Last year only, In 2009, I was initiated by his grace, and since then I am reading his books and doing whatever service my schedule allows (I am in a Grihastha-ashrama now).

I have now received all the answers to my spiritual questions, and I am feeling satisfied in my heart.

But ofcourse, I must say that srila Prabhupada, the founder of Iskcon has a speacial place in my heart, and will always be, because it is only by his grace I have reached this point. After getting initiated by srila Narayana Maharaj, i have developed even more faith for Srila Prabhupada.

I beg aplogies because my english is not very good and you people must be finding lots of grammatical and spelling mistakes in my posts.

All glories to our Guru-parampara, all glories to all the vaisnavas, to mahaprabhu and his associates, and Sri Sri Radha Krsna !

[smaranam]

Smaranam Ji,

Dandavat Pranamas.

So pl share with us, what is your story? How did you turn to Krsna?





praNAms Krshna Das Ji

I am sorry if I spoke too much in yesterday's post.

About yr qn - How did you turn to Krshna ?

I was always sort of allergic to the mainstream worldliness, and drawn to spirituality - like when I saw an ashram at 15, I wanted to live there, for instance.

The usual Hindu Faith in God was there since childhood , but quite a bit of it was dormant ; faith in KRshna as the supreme Lord arose the moment I learnt that from the Gita - it was more of knowledge that was lacking rather than faith.
The Bhagavad Gita was first presented to me by my aunt. At 25 I started reading it , was drawn to it as a source of comfort. Again and again I would be awed by all Krshna said, His desc. of sthitapradnya etc. and especially the "such people are very dear to Me" verses. Actually , the entire Gita was my close friend.

Any discourses by sadhus that I read all talked about how to get interested in paramartha and not obsess over prapancha. My problem , on the other hand, had always been - how to keep prapancha going , how to stay pragmatic.

As I was living life with indifference .... once I watched a new Mahabharat and heard BhAgvat Katha on TV - by Mrdul Krshna Goswami , all of which made me sort of infatuated with Him.
Then one day KRshna came into my life, and things changed a lot. I was in love and a major chunk of "the world" vanished, I did not care anymore. I started living with KRshna and He amazed me day by day.

Things recently seen/conveyed to me internally , I was surprised to find them later in the Bhagvat stories, or as events. My search for BhAgvat led to Srila PrabhupAd , his books.

First of all let me clarify : I do not think that my mind is the same as Krshna's Self. No. Its that only one SELF is eternal.

Really, I never cared to 'be' one with Krshna at all , just wanted to be with Him.
Over the years He made it evident that He is my own SELF.

Knowing well that I am not an action oriented and very outgoing person, it was Krshna who instructed me : DhyAna DhyAna DhyAna , not an external Guru .

What I don't like is external impositions of being the servant of servant of nth servant of mth servant of Krshna which may have nothing to do with what Krshna already is to you. Its like trying to fit a square peg in a round hole.

I have heard/read statements like "Any direct relationship with KRshna is condemned" - in NOD for instance (Nectar of Devotion). It was clear this is not my path. Only by being in direct one-on-one relationship with Krshna can I be a servant of one and all.

I was drawn to Swami Shivananda's descriptions of Para Bhakti and Jnana.
The qn, "How can a jiva have eternal spiritual individuality (with no traces of material mind/intellect) ?" bothered me too.

*Personal experience - internal
*logical fallacies I found in eternal-jivaness and fall-from-Vaikuntha theory,
*other things
drove me towards Advaita Jnana , not association with Advaitins !

Advaita does not mean losing Krshna or losing sight of Krshna, it means losing jiva-individual existence (ego) - eventually, and also seeing Him in all beings thru' oneness.

~*~*~*~

Wishing everyone a wonderful MahAShivratri

[Ramakrishna]

Thank you for sharing. I am glad to see you are so devoted to the Lord! :)

[Krsna Das]

I have heard/read statements like "Any direct relationship with KRshna is condemned" - in NOD for instance (Nectar of Devotion). It was clear this is not my path.



mad-bhakta-pujabhyadhika sarva-bhuteshu man-matih - Bhagwatam

"Worshiping My devotees is better than worshiping Me directly.That is My opinion."

:) Yes , that is our sidhhanta, our tattva. We do not accept direct relation ship with Krsna, nor with Srimati Radhika, nor with any of her 8 manjaris or 8 sakhis.

We accept relationship with him by relationship to our Guru Maharaj, who is the maid servant of one of the 8 majaris or sakhis or still one of there maid servants.

But yes, it is upto you whatsoever path you may choose for yourself, Lord has given this independance to everybody. It is upto us, in what way we use this independance.

Radhe !

[saidevo]

Yes , that is our sidhhanta, our tattva. We do not accept direct relation ship with Krsna, nor with Srimati Radhika, nor with any of her 8 manjaris or 8 sakhis.

We accept relationship with him by relationship to our Guru Maharaj, who is the maid servant of one of the 8 majaris or sakhis or still one of there maid servants.

But yes, it is upto you whatsoever path you may choose for yourself, Lord has given this independance to everybody. It is upto us, in what way we use this independance.

Radhe !


This sounds like the laity--clergy--Christ relationship in Christianity. Certainly, a devotee/disciple relates to BhagavAn in a devotee/disciple--guru--BhagavAn relationship in all sampradAyas, but when the devotee is spiritually mature and advanced, or after a guru confers the state of guruhood to a shiShya, he obtains the status to directly relate to BhagavAn. Thank God, we have that independence in almost all sampradAyas.

I am a KRShNa premin too, but I relate to him and his consorts directly, as well as through the satsangha of gurus.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Saidevo ji




I am a KRShNa premin too, but I relate to him and his consorts directly, as well as through the satsangha of gurus.



It's OK people follow different protocol and worship the Lord.
all depends on circumstances, i suppose when one is performing puja we do have certain Niyams to follow.

My understanding is when we chant the holy name then we are directly invoking the the Ista so i do not understand the objection.

Mirabai the Bhakta par excellence, for her it was Govind and no other.

Nice dilemma to have if we are lucky,

Guru Govind dono Khade Kisko lagu Pai...balihari Gurudev ki jisne Govind hai Dikhai.

If both Guru and Govind are standing who to bow first?

Jai Shree Krishna

[saidevo]

namaste Ganeshprasad ji.

Interesting dilemma indeed!

I think the verse is from Kabir. And you have also given the answer, right? Since Guru is the one who shows the God to the disciple, he is one to be bowed to first is the answer, right?

As you said, for MiraBai it was all Govinda, so no problem. For AnDAL too the same thing.

But this man Arjuna, had both Guru and Govinda, and Govinda as Guru as well as Guru as Govinda, yet he took such liberties with his Govinda-Guru and moved so freely with him; tremendous bhAgya--divine fortune for him!

I am just a bookworm who can only relate to and know Govinda emotionally, mentally, and intellectually, not knowing him yet experientially. And I am yet to have a guru too, so no problem in relating to Govinda directly through many of the roles he played during his avatAra time.

Perhaps there is one more point: if Govinda stands besides the Guru, then Guru himself will bow to Govinda, and so the disciple will also bow to Govinda first!

What dimensions and possibilities and bhAvas does bhakti give us!



It's OK people follow different protocol and worship the Lord.
all depends on circumstances, i suppose when one is performing puja we do have certain Niyams to follow.

My understanding is when we chant the holy name then we are directly invoking the the Ista so i do not understand the objection.

Mirabai the Bhakta par excellence, for her it was Govind and no other.

Nice dilemma to have if we are lucky,

Guru Govind dono Khade Kisko lagu Pai...balihari Gurudev ki jisne Govind hai Dikhai.

If both Guru and Govind are standing who to bow first?

Jai Shree Krishna

[Tirisilex]

I'm confused.. Are you saying that we are not to have a direct relationship with Krishna?

[Onkara]

But this man Arjuna, had both Guru and Govinda, and Govinda as Guru as well as Guru as Govinda, yet he took such liberties with his Govinda-Guru and moved so freely with him; tremendous bhAgya--divine fortune for him!

Namaste Saidevo Ji
Forgive me creating a tangent on these two points, the first of which tugged on something I am currently considering.

Is it not that everything is perfect, as the Lord knows Arjuna's heart before Ajuna has passed the question from his lips.

I find this most profound and fascinating. Although omniscient the Lord still acts and action still appears to occur to us. We see it in the Srimad Bhagatam most vividly:

"(12) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter8.html#Text 12) O chief of the munis [S'aunaka], seeing the glaring brahmâstra heading towards them, the Pândavas each took up their own five weapons. (13) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter8.html#Text 13) Seeing that they were in great danger with no other means available, the Almighty One took up His Sudars'ana disc for the protection of His devotees. (14) (http://www.srimadbhagavatam.org/canto1/chapter8.html#Text 14) From within the soul of all living beings, the Supreme Lord of Yoga, by means of His personal energy, shielded the embryo of Uttarâ in order to protect the progeny of the Kuru dynasty"

How beautiful the riddle of His divine play!



I am just a bookworm who can only relate to and know Govinda emotionally, mentally, and intellectually, not knowing him yet experientially. And I am yet to have a guru too, so no problem in relating to Govinda directly through many of the roles he played during his avatAra time.


Sir, you are more than the modest description above. :) Knowing itself is the substratum in which the experiential takes place.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Saidevo ji


namaste Ganeshprasad ji.
But this man Arjuna, had both Guru and Govinda, and Govinda as Guru as well as Guru as Govinda, yet he took such liberties with his Govinda-Guru and moved so freely with him; tremendous bhAgya--divine fortune for him!

　
　
To a large extent we are our own bhAgaya Vidhata, his Karuna is always there we just have to accept it, that is the hard bit.




I am just a bookworm who can only relate to and know Govinda emotionally, mentally, and intellectually, not knowing him yet experientially. And I am yet to have a guru too, so no problem in relating to Govinda directly through many of the roles he played during his avatAra time.
　
　
I think you are being modest here, your knowledge is greatly appreciated here, I am sure it does not get unnoticed with Krishna.
　
　


Perhaps there is one more point: if Govinda stands besides the Guru, then Guru himself will bow to Govinda, and so the disciple will also bow to Govinda first!
　
　
Your point is well taken.
　
　
Slightly different take on Guru.
Kabir ji says
Kabira Hari ke ruthke Guru ke Saran jat, Kahat Kabir Guru ruthKe Hari na hot Sahai.

meaning if Hari is not pleased one can approach the Guru but if Guru is annoyed Hari would not help.



What dimensions and possibilities and bhAvas does bhakti give us!

Indeed possibilities are enormous , this is an individual thing, each relation is unique.

People like Surdas, Kabir, NarshiMehta, PanBai, to name but a few but especially MiraBai so inspiring in Bhakti , their Bhajan Speaks volume.


Mirabai bhajan Jo tum todo piya,
sung by Lata those who might want to listen here it is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJSDoHnV8SA (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HJSDoHnV8SA)
　
But this one played on ndtv recent serial on Meera I simply love it
It touches the cord of my heart

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bth0KC-g7Ls&feature=related (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bth0KC-g7Ls&feature=related)

Jai Shree Krishna

[smaranam]

mad-bhakta-pujabhyadhika sarva-bhuteshu man-matih - Bhagwatam

[COLOR=black]"Worshiping My devotees is better than worshiping Me directly.That is My opinion."


praNAm Krshna Das Ji

"mad-bhakta-pujabhyadhika sarva-bhuteshu man-matih" does not get translated as
"Worshiping My devotees is better than worshiping Me directly.That is My opinion."

it is in the list of things that help one develop love and devotion for Him, 2 of which are

1. devotion towards my devotees (mad-bhakta-pujabhyadhika)
2. seeing Me in all beings (sarva bhuteshu man-matih)
S. BhAgvatam 11.19.20-24

Where does He say "its better than worshipping Me directly" ?



But yes, it is upto you whatsoever path you may choose for yourself, Lord has given this independance to everybody. It is upto us, in what way we use this independance.

Radhe !


Also, the Lord drives some of that independance sometimes, when jiva may not know how to or not want to drive it entirely.
Krshna overrides shAstra.
Within shAstra, Bh. GitA overrides BhAgvat - except Krshna's own words.
Shastra overrides parampara.
Jiva's innocence also overrides unknown parampara

namaste

[Mohini Shakti Devi]

Krshna overrides shAstra.
Within shAstra, Bh. GitA overrides BhAgvat.
Shastra overrides parampara.
Jiva's innocence also overrides unknown parampara


I do not agree with this.
"GitA overrides BhAgvat" desolves the very presence of the teacher to a mile stone to step over and proceed without the presence of the teacher; which does not occur in the Gita.

It an issue of interpersonal exchanges that reciprocate mutually and elevate the relationships to act in concert.

A little inspiration goes along way in spiritual life:



BG 18.26 TRANSLATION By A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami:

For one who explains this supreme secret to the devotees, pure devotional service is guaranteed, and at the end he will come back to Me.

PURPORT By A.C. Bhaktivedanta Swami:
Generally it is advised that Bhagavad-gétä be discussed amongst the devotees only, for those who are not devotees will understand neither Kåñëa nor Bhagavad-gétä. Those who do not accept Kåñëa as He is and Bhagavad-gétä as it is should not try to explain Bhagavad-gétä whimsically. Bhagavad-gétä should be explained to persons who are ready to accept Kåñëa as the Supreme Personality of Godhead. It is a subject matter for the devotees of Krsna. Anyone, however, who tries sincerely to present Bhagavad-gétä as it is will advance in devotional activities and reach the pure devotional state of life. As a result of such pure devotion, he is sure to go back home, back to Godhead.

[smaranam]

I do not agree with this.
[FONT=Times New Roman][SIZE=3]"GitA overrides BhAgvat"

Well , with the exception where its Krshna's words (like in this case, Uddhav Gita Canto 11). Uddhav Gita of course is not overriden. Also, haven't read/remember the entire Bhagvat cover to cover, but do not forsee anything in it which will contradict Gita.
I meant that as a general rule : Gita supercedes Puranas.

I was just saying "first class worship of My devotees" does not rule out direct relationship with BhagvAn, as long as one sees Him in all.

I do not want to argue , Mataji, just saw the wording where the translation "better than worshipping Me" showed something that wasn't there in the shloka.

praNAm

[Krsna Das]

"........GitA overrides BhAgvat..........."



My opinion is this:

Geeta is the summary of vedic literature. (........Sarvopnishdo gavo dogdha gopal nandanah.....All upanishads are the cows and Gopal is the cowherd who milks these cows and milk is Geeta itself........)

However, Geeta is a part of Mahabharat, which is itself called pancham veda (or fifth veda).

But when Srila Vyass deva compiled Mahabharat, he was still not satisfied.

When did he felt satisfaction?

=======



mad-bhakta-pujabhy-adhika


Lord says "adhika" (superior to). Lord gives an indication.


=======



Mirabai the Bhakta par excellence, for her it was Govind and no other.


"No other" means she was devoted to Krsna only, and no one else (anya-devta) - doesen't mean she was without a guru, as she said herself that her Guru is Sri Ravidas Ji.

Meera Ne Govind Milya Ji, Guru Miliya Raidas....

Guru miliya Raidasji, dinhi jnanki gutki.....




Guru Govind dono Khade Kisko lagu Pai...balihari Gurudev ki jisne Govind hai Dikhai.




There is one more explanation of this :

Guru Govind dono Khade (Sri Guru and the Supreme Lord are both standing in front of me)
Kisko lagu Pai (Whome should i pay my obesciences first?)
balihari Gurudev ki (I pay my first obesciences to that gurudev)
jisne Govind hai Dikhai (who gesticulated or pointed towards Govinda -> meaning who pointed that I should first pay obesciences to Govinda, not him)




But this man Arjuna, had both Guru and Govinda, and Govinda as Guru as well as Guru as Govinda, yet he took such liberties with his Govinda-Guru and moved so freely with him; tremendous bhAgya--divine fortune for him!



And why is that for Arjuna? because a Guru is required for the the Badhha-Jivas, not the Nitya-Sidha-parikaras of Lord, for there was no time when they came in contact with Maya-Sakti of Lord, so there is no need for them to accept a Guru. Still, in the prakat-leela of Lord (manifest - pasttimes), in oder to set an example, Lord himself accepts a guru, Like Krsna also accepted Sandipani Rishi, also like Meera Bai accepted.

Radhe !

[Krsna Das]

Information:

The vaisnava tilaka worn by GV's also gives an indication of this (that we do not accept direct relation with Krsna and Radha-Rani)


http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/6c/Brosen_brahmatilaka.png/35px-Brosen_brahmatilaka.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brosen_brahmatilaka.png)

and that is why it is different from the tilaka of vaishnavas of Sri Sampradaya, because they accept direct relationship with Radha-Krsna.

and frankly there is nothing wrong in it....the sanskaras of previous lives and philosophical understanding also push a Jiva to follow a particular path.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/Brosen_sritilaka.png/50px-Brosen_sritilaka.png (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Brosen_sritilaka.png)

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam

No one here is arguing, the elementary knowledge, need of a guru or a lack of guru for Meera.
Point was made that Meera’s bhakti was direct with Krishna.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Krsna Das]

Ganesh Prasad Ji,

Dandavat Pranamas !

Your statement that Meera Bai had direct relationship with Krsna is correct, because the gopis can have direct relationship with Krsna. She has herself proclaimed that in her previous birth, she was a gopi in vraja dham:

RanaJi , hu to giridhar ne man bhave !
Purva-Janmani Vrajatani Gopi chuk thata nahin aavi re !

It's we, the followers of GV sampradaya, who serve Krsna, by serving the gopis. Therefore, udhava ji has said in bhagwatam:

Vande nanda-vraja-strinaam pAda renuksmashmashah
Yasam harikathodgItam punati Bhuvanatrayam

Oh Damsels of Vraja ! I beg the the dust of your lotus feet, so that I can be purified. The divine songs sung by all of you are purifying the three worlds !

Therefore Srila Narottam Das has said:

Lalita Vishakha adi yata sakhi vrnda |
ajnaya koribo seva, charanArvinda ||

I will perform service under the guidance of sakhis- lalita and vishakha. What ever order they will give me, I will perform, to please them.

Radhe !

[kd gupta]

Well , with the exception where its Krshna's words (like in this case, Uddhav Gita Canto 11). Uddhav Gita of course is not overriden. Also, haven't read/remember the entire Bhagvat cover to cover, but do not forsee anything in it which will contradict Gita.
I meant that as a general rule : Gita supercedes Puranas.

I was just saying "first class worship of My devotees" does not rule out direct relationship with BhagvAn, as long as one sees Him in all.

I do not want to argue , Mataji, just saw the wording where the translation "better than worshipping Me" showed something that wasn't there in the shloka.

praNAm
Translation by our foreign friends....
% Prepared by Hiroko Nagasaki, Osaka University of Foreign Studies
% Tulasiidaasa's Vinaya-Patrika
% based on the Gita Press edition
%
% ;sriigosvaamiitulasiidasajiiracita
% vinaya-paatrikaa
% (saralabhaavaarthasahita)
% ;srii siitaaraamaabhyaa.m nama.h
% vinaya-patrikaa
% raaga bilaavala
% ;sriiga.ne;sa-stuti
%
{ViP 1.1:1} gaaiye ganapati jagabandana. sa:nkara-suvana bhavaanii-nandana..1..
{ViP 1.1:2} siddhi-sadana, gaja-badana, binaayaka. k.rpaa-sindhu, sundara, saba-laayaka ..2..
{ViP 1.1:3} modaka-priya, muda-ma:ngala-daataa. abidyaa-baaridhi, abuddhi-bidhaataa..3..
{ViP 1.1:4} maa~gata tulasidaasa kara jore. basahi.m raamasiya maanasa more..4..

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Krsna Das ji


Ganesh Prasad Ji,

Dandavat Pranamas !

Your statement that Meera Bai had direct relationship with Krsna is correct, because the gopis can have direct relationship with Krsna. She has herself proclaimed that in her previous birth, she was a gopi in vraja dham:

RanaJi , hu to giridhar ne man bhave !
Purva-Janmani Vrajatani Gopi chuk thata nahin aavi re !



I really am surprised at your accepting Meerabai as Gopi!

because GV do not recognize bhakta like Tulsidas or Meera as sudha bhakti.

http://www.gosai.com/krishna-talk/vraja-bhava.html

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Gupta ji


Translation by our foreign friends....
% Prepared by Hiroko Nagasaki, Osaka University of Foreign Studies
% Tulasiidaasa's Vinaya-Patrika
% based on the Gita Press edition
%
% ;sriigosvaamiitulasiidasajiiracita
% vinaya-paatrikaa
% (saralabhaavaarthasahita)
% ;srii siitaaraamaabhyaa.m nama.h
% vinaya-patrikaa
% raaga bilaavala
% ;sriiga.ne;sa-stuti
%
{ViP 1.1:1} gaaiye ganapati jagabandana. sa:nkara-suvana bhavaanii-nandana..1..
{ViP 1.1:2} siddhi-sadana, gaja-badana, binaayaka. k.rpaa-sindhu, sundara, saba-laayaka ..2..
{ViP 1.1:3} modaka-priya, muda-ma:ngala-daataa. abidyaa-baaridhi, abuddhi-bidhaataa..3..
{ViP 1.1:4} maa~gata tulasidaasa kara jore. basahi.m raamasiya maanasa more..4..

Please provide translation

Jai Shree Krishna

[Krsna Das]

Dandavat Ganesh Prasad Ji !

You have raised a very good point.

The link you have provided confirms to my understanding that Mira Bai related to Krsna directly, as I have stated in my previous thread.

I have stated what Mira Bai said about herself (I was a Gopi in my previous birth). Not what we accept.

GV rejects Meerabai (actually the style or path of bhakti, not her devotion) in the sense that she was deeply in love with Krsna, but not following the path of "mahat-PAda-rajo-abhishekam", which is our GV sidhhanta.

This does not mean that Meera Bai was not a devotee, she was a wonderful devotee, but the way she did bhakti is not what the GV's are expected to do bhakti. That is not our path.

However, I must also accept that I have heard number of bhajans being sung in ISKCON composed by Mira Bai. Our book of Bhajans "Sri Gaudiya Giti Guchha" also contains 1-2 songs related to Meera Bai, and so our God-brothers (including me) sing these songs from time to time, during public programs or house programs, amongst the hindi-speaking people.

So why this contradiction?

My understanding is that singing songs does not mean that we are also necessarily following the mood of a person who has composed this song.

Also, in north India, where we are preaching, it is difficult to present songs in bengali in public programs (all our vaisnava songs are in bengali) because people do not understand the language.

It is for these reasons Srila Prabhupada has not objected to singing Mira's bhajans, as also my Guru Maharaj.

Therefore, it is not considered apradha to sing the bhajans compiled by other vaishnava saints. But yes, vaisnava bengali bhajans are considered standard bhajans in our sampradaya.

However, singing the songs of impersonalists is not accepted in our sampradaya, because impersonalism is accepted as anti-thesis to Bhakti in our sampradaya.

Radhe Radhe !

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Krsna das ji


How shallow one minute Meerabai is a Gopi and therefore it was ok for direct worship, unfortunately we can't justify that any more, sorry Meerabai we will only use you because it is convenient.

Thankfully most of Hindus will listen to her Bhajan because it conveys deep love of Lord Shree Krishna

We will also quote Bhaja Govinda!

Jai Shree Krishna

[Krsna Das]

How shallow one minute Meerabai is a Gopi and therefore it was ok for direct worship, unfortunately we can't justify that any more, sorry Meerabai we will only use you because it is convenient.


Ganesh Prasad Ji , you loose your calm every time I have discussion with you.

We are not using any body anywhere. We sing bhajans of Mirabai as well sing of other vaishnava saints including Tulsidas ji because they are not anti-thesis to bhakti.

Lets take an example, the Sri Vaishnavas perform devotional service directly to Radha-Krsna, but that does not mean we reject them, but that also does not mean we follow there path. We have our own philosophy to follow. We accept them as an authentic vaishnava sampradaya.

Another example, Tulsi Das ji has said that one who differentiates b/w Siva and Visnu is an offender. He said this because the saivas and vaisnavites were quarreling at that point of time to establish the superiority of there dieties. Though he himself knew the truth that who is supreme, at that point of time he mentioned what was favorable for the circumstances.

Our main motive is to preach. If singing mira bhajans is favourable for preaching, we should do that. there is no doubt about this. Once Bhakti sidhhanta sarasvati thakura prabhupada accepted grains on ekadashi day because they had to travel a long journey for a programme to be conducted somewhere.

[saidevo]

namaste GP.



How shallow one minute Meerabai is a Gopi and therefore it was ok for direct worship, unfortunately we can't justify that any more, sorry Meerabai we will only use you because it is convenient.

Thankfully most of Hindus will listen to her Bhajan because it conveys deep love of Lord Shree Krishna

We will also quote Bhaja Govinda!


The famous 8th century VaiShNava Woman AzhvAr--saint, ANDAL, the author of one of the famous VaiShNava granthas in Tamilnadu, the TiruppAvai, is another KRShNa bhakta who like Mirabai directly related to shrI KRShNa. She was dreaming to marry only MahAViShNu in the form of shrI RanganAtha. The Lord assured her father, PeriyAzhvAr, another famous VaiShNava saint that he would marry the girl, commanded the priests of the Srirangam temple to prepare for the wedding and absorbed the girl into him, calling her into his sanctum, proving that ViShNu and KRShNa are one and the same. ANDAL used to string a garland every day for her consort RanganAtha, wear it on her looking into the mirror, and then offer it to BhagavAn, much to the dismay of her father, yet BhagavAn accepted it, assuring her father that he took no offense. It is for this reason she is adored as 'chUDikkoDuththa nAchiyAr'--the female saint who gave it after wearing it.

ANDAL's TiruppAvai has 30 songs wherein she sings the praise of shrI KRShNa and pines for him to serve him as a Gopi not just in this birth but eternally. The thirty songs in this VaiShNava Tamil grantha are sung one per day in the month of MArgazhi in all the VaiShNava temples, and most people in TN including small children know them by heart, as the children are encouraged in TiruppAvai reciting competitions. In all the VaiShNava temples in Tamilnadu, there is a sannadhi for ANDAL where she is adored with grand annual and seasonal festivities and celebrations.

Thus, there are several KRShNa bhaktas who directly related and merged with BhagavAn, proving the unity and identity of KRShNa and ViShNu. ANDAL's devotees don't need the ISKCON to sanction or sanctify her divine status.

[kd gupta]

Pranam Gupta ji



Please provide translation

Jai Shree Krishna
Pranam G prasadji
gaaiye ganapati jagabandana.. Worship with prayers to Ganeshji [ aum Namaste ganapataye ], who is worshipped by all [ gananam twa ganapatim havamahe ]
shankara-suvana bhavaanii-nandana..He is son of Shankara-Parvatiji
siddhi-sadana, gaja-badana, vinaayaka..He is abode of all blessings , has the head of elephant[ Nidhinam twa nidhipatim ]
kripaa-sindhu, sundara, saba-laayaka..He is like a beautiful ocean of mercy and equally capable [ Twamahur vipratamam ]
modaka-priya, muda-mangala-daataa..He loves eating laddus [ round shape sweets ] and is a donor of joy , falicity .
vidyaa-vaaridhi, buddhi-vidhaataa.. He is ocean of knowledge and creator of wisdom.
maangata tulasidaasa kara jore..This Tulasidas demands from you with folded hands basahin raamasiya maanasa more..That Shri Rama with mata Sita be always in my mind [ A similar prayer like Tanme manah Shivasankalpamastu ]

In Ganeshji pujan Grass is also offered . It was 1995-96 when Ganeshji drank Milk and you believe I myself offered milk and with no confusion there was NO scientific mistake . On the next day I went again and there was no such miracle .

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Krsna das ji


Ganesh Prasad Ji , you loose your calm every time I have discussion with you.

.

Well I don’t know how you worked that out, is it because I pointed the facts to you?
Until that point Meera was a Gopi. Who is loosing the plot?



We are not using any body anywhere. We sing bhajans of Mirabai as well sing of other vaishnava saints including Tulsidas ji because they are not anti-thesis to bhakti.

Wow you must be a rebel because in my experience with Iskcon and believe me it goes back a long time, I have never heard her Bhajan sung in the temple or her Bhakti being praised.



Lets take an example, the Sri Vaishnavas perform devotional service directly to Radha-Krsna, but that does not mean we reject them, but that also does not mean we follow there path. We have our own philosophy to follow. We accept them as an authentic vaishnava sampradaya.

I don’t think they or for that matter anyone requires your approval.
For the record, for them Lord Vishnu is the source of all avatars.



Another example, Tulsi Das ji has said that one who differentiates b/w Siva and Visnu is an offender. He said this because the saivas and vaisnavites were quarreling at that point of time to establish the superiority of there dieties. Though he himself knew the truth that who is supreme, at that point of time he mentioned what was favorable for the circumstances.

Are you a victim of circumstance? How do you know what you learn now is a big lie? You seem to know motives of Tulsidas, had it ever occurred to you that he actually was speaking the truth?
　


Our main motive is to preach. If singing mira bhajans is favourable for preaching, we should do that. there is no doubt about this. Once Bhakti sidhhanta sarasvati thakura prabhupada accepted grains on ekadashi day because they had to travel a long journey for a programme to be conducted somewhere.

　
So you don’t mind going against your Gurus and I quote extracts form the link I had provided


Mirabai is not accepted as a suddha-vaisnavi by the followers of Bhaktivinoda Thakura and Sri Siddhanta Saraswati Thakura. Therefore the followers of Bhaktivinoda and Saraswati Thakura never teach their disciples to sing the bhajans of Mirabai. To teach one's disciple to sing the bhajans of Mirabai is equal to putting a kerosene rag in the mouth of that disciple.



Mirabai has been rejected by the Gaudiya-sampradaya as a psuedo-vaisnavi. There are some people who say that Mirabai was a half disciple of Srila Jiva Goswami but this is a concoction. Some say that simply by placing her hands over the eyes of the Rana of Mewar that he obtained Krsna darsana. Also some devotees are saying that Mirabai merged into the body of Krsna in Dwaraka and never came out again. But these are simply stories which have no ontological backing. These stories are rejected by the suddha-bhakti school.

Are you also suggesting you can break the rules of Ekadasi so that it allows you to preach?

isn’t that a tacit admittance that you are actually using Meera’s bhajan, how honest are you guys?

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Gupta ji, Saidevo ji
Thanks for your post,

Yes Tulsidas did offer his prayers to Ganesh and maa Sarsvati, is that the point you are making?

saidevo thanks for the info, i must admit i have very little knowledge of South and their great Bhaktas. i know i should read more on it.

Jai Shree Krishna

[saidevo]

Under the ShaNmata--six religions, established by Adi Shankara, we have so many sampradAyas under each that have their own form of Brahman as the very Brahman. Although the KRShNa bhakti tradition is as old as the Vedas, it was established as a major popular tradition only in the 8th century CE, started possibly by ANDAL. It came to the North India from the South in the 12th century CE, possibly through Jayadeva's work Gita Govinda. It became influential due the foundation work of Nimbarka (11th c), and VallabhAchArya (15th c). Chaitanya and MIrAbai, who were contemporaries in the 16th century, fostered it further in their own ways. Compared to all this hoary tradition, the sampradAya of ISKCON, formed in 1966 is, as Jivattatva has put it (post #36), probably not more than a cult.

The point is that no sampradAya can claim exclusivity of their deity, doctrine and methods of worship and seek to revile another. Where it is so, it becomes a negative force with questionable credentials.

[Krsna Das]

Thanks to all those who have replied.

By the way, Mirabai has composed bhajans related to Mahaprabhu as well, admitting that he is none other than Krsna himself.

So I hope all the "generous hindus" who have posted in this forum accept Mira Bai's words?

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?p=39821#post39821

Oh Sankirtan ! Sankirtan ! and Sankirtan !

[Onkara]

Namasté
Why not learn from ISKON and others? It appears we all are :) There is no obligation to reject or accept, doing so just gives strength to the dualistic mind, which is all part of the Lord's mAyA, being prakriti in essence. Any statement is like bate on a fishing line, the mind just wants to snap at it and take it up as an opinion, exactly as my mind has done here :)

It is from tolerance that unconditional love has space to grow. It is from unconditional love that we come closer to the divine.

There is no offence taken if another philosophy must first reject the predecesor, even if it was the predecesor which lead me to the divine. The rejection of predecesors appears to be acceptable in Vedanta and helps place the philosopher's argument into perspective. This leads to cutting through the doubts which the mind is so susceptable to create.

This rejeciton, albeit repugnant at times, is all a part of the duality in which we find ourselves living. In order for Worshiper (you and me) and Worshipped (the Lord) to exist there must be duality, so any school or sect will naturally wish to justify this duality in their philosophy if they wish to maintain that relationship; even at complete denial of the nondual. With the acceptance of dualism comes rejection and embrace. Granted, that approach is not for all minds, so what about the nondualist?

As a nondualist one could see both vehement rejection and zealous embrace and also see beyond both. This "seeing beyond the dualistic argument" is unconditional love for all and it is the same unconditional love that our friend Tirisilex first shared with us for the Lord.


I love Krishna sooooo much.. The more I think about him the more I believe in him.. He makes so much sense to me.. I'm so glad I chose to follow him.. or was it he who chose me?? I remember the day I decided to start following him.. I was in my Living room and I had a vision of him standing there.. He said "I will never Judge you. I will never dictate to you on how to live your life like how your "voices" do." Thats all what I needed.. I called the Boston ISKCON and I went down the week after and spoke to someone there.. He told me that Krishna would have said that.. I just feel so comfortable with Krishna and I'm not in fear or guilt.. I LOVE KRISHNA

I just needed to say that..

AUM

[Krsna Das]

So Trisilex, what have you thought about yourself, and about your faith.

How are you going to go about it?

[amith vikram]

I'm confused.. Are you saying that we are not to have a direct relationship with Krishna?
you can have what ever sort of relation u want to.
there r no rules and regulations or 'specific path' type.
narada says,one should treat hari as a friend.
anyway its your wish.at the end of the day,its the contentment that matters.

[shian]

http://blog.eaglespace.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/krishna89af0895-e53f-4dc4-b62d-1171756f17a6.jpg


HARE KRSNA HARE KRSNA
KRSNA KRSNA HARE HARE

HARE RAMA HARE RAMA
RAMA RAMA HARE HARE

I LOVE KRSNA

in my own way to love HIM

[Krsna Das]

Wanted to share this verse with all of you:


naham vipro na ca nara-patir napi vaisyo na sudro
naham varni na ca grha-patir no vanastho yatir va
kintu prodyan nikhila-paramananda-purnamrtabdher
gopi-bhartuh pada-kamalayor dasa-dasanudasah


(Padyavali, 74):


[“I am not a brahmana (priest or Vedic scholar), ksatriya (warrior or administrator), vaisya (agriculturalist or businessman), or sudra (worker), nor a brahmacari (celibate student), grhastha (householder), vanaprastha (renounced householder) or sannyasi (full renunciate). Being transcendental to this gross and subtle body, I am the servant of the servant of the servant of the lotus feet of the master of the gopis, Sri Krsna, who is the ultimate shelter of everyone, full of transcendental bliss and an ocean of unlimited nectar.”]


So who is saying this verse? and to whome?

Chaitanya Mhaprabhu is saying this to his eternal associate, Sri Swarupa Damodara (who is none other than incarnation of Vishakha Sakhi - Sri Gaur Ganodesh Dipika - 160)

[satay]

Admin Note

Namaskar,

Irrelevant posts deleted from this thread. Please keep it on topic. If you must discuss ISKCON, please do it in the ISKCON section.

Thanks for your cooperation.

One post regarding moderation moved to the appropriate thread http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=379

[srinidhi]

Saidevo Ji - Your post about Aandal was beautiful and authentic. We, Sri Vaishnavas, worship Aandal and all the azhwars too with great Bhakti.

[PatrickMB]

I love Krishna sooooo much.. The more I think about him the more I believe in him.. He makes so much sense to me.. I'm so glad I chose to follow him.. or was it he who chose me?? I remember the day I decided to start following him.. I was in my Living room and I had a vision of him standing there.. He said "I will never Judge you. I will never dictate to you on how to live your life like how your "voices" do." Thats all what I needed.. I called the Boston ISKCON and I went down the week after and spoke to someone there.. He told me that Krishna would have said that.. I just feel so comfortable with Krishna and I'm not in fear or guilt.. I LOVE KRISHNA

I just needed to say that..


That is wonderful. I am so happy for you! When I pray to Lord Krishna, it is usually in concert with Sri Radha. Worshipping at her lotus feet pleases Lord Krishna, I believe, so great is his love for Radha.

God bless you on your journey.