can someone explain this please?

[wcrow]

I am doing some research into the many forms of Devi, and I have come across something that is interesting, which is the relationship between Parvati, Kali, Durga. They way I have understood it is that it goes from the lighter, gentler aspect of Devi, Parvati, through to Durga, who is motherly yet defends with force, and kali, who is desruction. But in other places I have read that Kali and Parvati are manifestations of Durga, and in others that Durga and parvati are manifestations of Kali and so on. So, can someone please exlain the relationship these godesses have with each other?

Thanks,

Wilfred.

[Eastern Mind]

They way I have understood it is that it goes from the lighter, gentler aspect of Devi, Parvati, through to Durga, who is motherly yet defends with force, and kali, who is desruction. But in other places I have read that Kali and Parvati are manifestations of Durga, and in others that Durga and parvati are manifestations of Kali and so on. So, can someone please exlain the relationship these godesses have with each other?

Thanks,

Wilfred.

Namaste wcrow: Of course, of course. There is no single explanation. There are always many. This is part of the religions of Hinduism. (I use the term religions because I believe it better reflects reality.)

If someone 'explains' what you are wishing them to do, it will be their interpretation, not necessarily.

From my point of view, they are all one and the same, with each highlighting an aspect. But that's just my point of view.

Aum Namasivaya

[MahaHrada]

I am doing some research into the many forms of Devi, and I have come across something that is interesting, which is the relationship between Parvati, Kali, Durga. They way I have understood it is that it goes from the lighter, gentler aspect of Devi, Parvati, through to Durga, who is motherly yet defends with force, and kali, who is desruction. But in other places I have read that Kali and Parvati are manifestations of Durga, and in others that Durga and parvati are manifestations of Kali and so on. So, can someone please exlain the relationship these godesses have with each other?

Thanks,

Wilfred.

Contrary to EM´s opinion the roles of the devis are generallly quite well definend in traditional Hinduism. There is not much room for ambiguity or interpretations in the tradition. But i admit there is a lack of knowledge. A lot of confusion is caused by indologists and new age or other western appropriations and deformations of Shakta related subjects, often due to a sociological, psychological or comparative religious, folkloristic, or ethnological approach. These confusing elements are absent in the traditional shakta religion.

Since all devis are a manifestation of one primal Shakti each of the more important aspects can be worshipped as being the central shakti, that is giving rise to all the others, for the devotee of Kali she will give rise to Parvati and Durga and for the devotee of Durga she will give rise to Parvati and Kali etc. That is the common way a tantric will gain access to all other devata without the need to sway around and worship different devas, and that way stay one pointed and dedicated to one devata even when worshipping another.

Since in agamic philosophy the supreme power is contained in every distinct element everything can become an aspect of everything else, even if it is only a heap of ash it can become the center of attention, the ultimate, the brahman. My gurus guru used to say "we can turn ashes into gods and gods into ashes"

Parvati is Gauri which means the golden or light one and Kali is Gauri turned into her opposite a dark (kali) color. This is a duality of the two aspects of devi the protective and fierce warrior and the nourishing mother and dedicated wife. The light full moon and the dark new moon.

Durga is the form of Devi, that combines all shaktis of the diverse devata, this is shown by their weapons which she carries, representing the destructive power of all devas, she was manifested as a warrior with a special misson, to destroy the rule of Mahisa a powerful asura. Kali aided her in this battle.

Parvati is mostly depicted together with Shiva as his loving wife. She is the reincarnation of Sati, that incarnation of Devi that was able by her dedication and tapas to move Shiva to marry and procreate, as the greatest Mahayogi he was disinclined to marry, thats why only the creatrix of all the worlds was able to infatuate him and no other woman. Other names of her in this aspect are Uma and Gauri. Parvati is rarely if ever, an aspect of devi employed for spiritual sadhana or upasana, because she is solely dedicated to Shiva.

Kali and Tripurasundari are the aspects of Devi that are the foremost amongst the Mahavidyas employed for tantrik sadhana or upasana and are specially suited to grant all achievements, material as well as spiritual. They are representing the dual forces of creation and dissolution, the peaceful and the fierce. Desire and Anger. Devi relates to her devotees either in peaceful or fierce mood, in the relationship of a daughter, sister, wife or mother, and in the forms of a young virgin girl, a 16 year old woman, and an old woman.

[Onkara]

Hi WCrow
I have come across this on a site (http://www.adi-shakti.org/) which I felt gave an interesting explanation, part of which I quote below. I would like to learn more about Goddesses:

Manifestations Of The Divine Mother

The Supreme Lord is represented as Siva and His power is represented as His consort—Sakti, Durga or Kali. Just as the husband and wife look after the well-being of the family, so also Lord Siva and His Sakti are engaged in looking after the affairs of this world.

Divine Mother is everywhere triple. She is endowed with the three Gunas, viz., Sattva, Rajas and Tamas. She manifests Herself as Will (Ichha Sakti), Action (Kriya Sakti) and Knowledge (Jnana Sakti). She is Brahma-Sakti (Sarasvati) in conjunction with Brahma, Vishnu-Sakti (Lakshmi) in conjunction with Vishnu and Siva-Sakti (Gauri) in conjunction with Siva. Hence She is called Tripurasundari.

Radha, Durga, Lakshmi, Sarasvati and Savitri are the five primary forms of Prakriti or Devi. Durga destroyed Madhu and Kaitabha through Vishnu. As Mahalakshmi, She destroyed the Asura Mahisha; and as Sarasvati, she destroyed Sumbha and Nisumbha with their companions Dhumralochana, Chanda, Munda and Raktabija.

[smaranam]

I am doing some research into the many forms of Devi, and I have come across something that is interesting, which is the relationship between Parvati, Kali, Durga. They way I have understood it is that it goes from the lighter, gentler aspect of Devi, Parvati, through to Durga, who is motherly yet defends with force, and kali, who is desruction. But in other places I have read that Kali and Parvati are manifestations of Durga, and in others that Durga and parvati are manifestations of Kali and so on. So, can someone please exlain the relationship these godesses have with each other?

Thanks,

Wilfred.

Namaste Wilfred

Please look forward to detail authentic explanations from a Shakta or Shaiva here, but here is a view.

-----------------
They are all aspects and forms of Shakti , so all under the Umbrella of Shakti for me.

Shakti = Supreme Lord's energy , potency

DurgA-PArvati(UmA)-KAli are the Sat energy - existential potency of God.

The other two are chit and ananda

Sat = existential energy = DurgA , PArvati et all in various forms and moods as you can see , represent prakrti , creative power.

Chit = knowledge energy = Saraswati (VANI)

Ananda (HlAdini) = bliss energy/aspect = Lakshmi( RamA ) (RAdhA, SitA, Rukmini are Lakshmi )


Not to confuse you, but if this does , I am sorry , please ignore, and wait for the Shakta/Shaiva answers.

praNAm

[smaranam]

Looks like MahAhrda , Snip and smaranam posted all at once !

[wcrow]

Thankyou everybody for your answers. I had an idea that there would be a variety of opinions! It is so refreshing to hear this, because I am brought up in a society that views any differing opinions as the work of the devil.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam all: Thanks for all the information. I am an idiot on Shaktism, as I'm not a Shaktite, so thanks for all the clarifictions/viewpoints. My answer was just from my own limited knowledge of other sampradayas/sects I've gleaned over the years from observation into the vastness of what is coined Hinduism. So I have another question. Who is Rajarajeshwari, and which of the above three would she be, if any? Thanks.

Aum Namasivaya

[MahaHrada]

Vannakkam all: Thanks for all the information. I am an idiot on Shaktism, as I'm not a Shaktite, so thanks for all the clarifictions/viewpoints. My answer was just from my own limited knowledge of other sampradayas/sects I've gleaned over the years from observation into the vastness of what is coined Hinduism. So I have another question. Who is Rajarajeshwari, and which of the above three would she be, if any? Thanks.

Aum Namasivaya

Rajarajeswari is Sri Lalita Mahatripurasundari Parabhattarika.

[MahaHrada]

My answer was just from my own limited knowledge of other sampradayas/sects I've gleaned over the years from observation into the vastness of what is coined Hinduism.

Aum Namasivaya

Hinduism is certainly vast and contains countless approaches, but i have the impressions that the functions and role of all the Devas, are quite well definend and more or less similar in all traditions.
An exception are the devas that express advanced generic concepts like Parashakti or Adishakti or Adinath, and on the opposite end those Devas that are very specialized and peculiar to communities, families, sacred places, villages or tribes, there is of course a lot of ambiguity there. The prevailing confusion is rather due to diverse false academic interpretations that originated from the western studies and undue appropriations by those though genuinely interested but that have been mislead, sadly there are even reimports into india of very shallow new age thought that begins to distort the traditional clarity of thought.

Tantra, Shaktism and Yoga has suffered the most, a lot of the westerners that have appropriated some ideas from shakta sources come to india with a demand for something they think is tantra or aghor that never existed, except in their confused mind, and that of some authors, and this demand is met by fake tantrics, who deliver what the tourists look for, these "Gurus" ,once successful, in turn spread the misinformation to indians as well.

[Eastern Mind]

Hinduism is certainly vast and contains countless approaches, but i have the impressions that the functions and role of all the Devas, are quite well definend and more or less similar in all traditions.

antra, Shaktism and Yoga has suffered the most, a lot of the westerners that have appropriated some ideas from shakta sources come to india with a demand for something they think is tantra or aghor that never existed, except in their confused mind, and that of some authors, and this demand is met by fake tantrics, who deliver what the tourists look for, these "Gurus" ,once successful, in turn spread the misinformation to indians as well.

MahaHrada: I agree. Most of the differences are external. The devas are inner and sages who have attained degrees of realisation usually agree on universal truth, at least 99% of the time.

As far as westerners go, I think I totally understand this, even though I am a westerner. Its like going to the end of a trip without going through the work of the trip itself. In the end things get very fuzzy. So I find the new-agers to be from my point of view, mostly just confused. But its all okay, as one day they too will come around.

Aum Namasivaya

[MahaHrada]

MahaHrada: I agree. Most of the differences are external. The devas are inner and sages who have attained degrees of realisation usually agree on universal truth, at least 99% of the time.

As far as westerners go, I think I totally understand this, even though I am a westerner. Its like going to the end of a trip without going through the work of the trip itself. In the end things get very fuzzy. So I find the new-agers to be from my point of view, mostly just confused. But its all okay, as one day they too will come around.

Aum Namasivaya

I am not so much worried about the fate of the new agers, but about the corruption of Bharata from inside by the influence of crooks and fake tantrics empowered by U$.

[smaranam]

Namaste


Thankyou everybody for your answers. I had an idea that there would be a variety of opinions! It is so refreshing to hear this, because I am brought up in a society that views any differing opinions as the work of the devil.

These were not opinions. If one looks carefully at the first few replies to your OP, it is clear that it is information that compliments each other.
There is detail and overview.

Of course, had I seen MahArhadaji's post earlier I would probably not have posted, thinking you don't need extra information or perspective, but now you have it :)

Someone here rightly said - "Hinduism is layered".
Therein lies its beauty. It is also multifaceted.

praNAm

[ranjeetmore]

Durga lives on Manidviap Who has parshads - Kali,Mahakali,Candi,etc.


Parvati/gauri lives with Sri Shankara on Shivloka.Their parshads- Ganesha,Kartikeya,etc.

Laxmi-Narayan Live on Vaikuntha.Their Parshads - Sarasvati,Ganga,etc.

Seeta-Rama live on Saketloka.Their parshads- Laxman,Hanuman,etc.

Radha Krsna live on Goloka.Their parshads- Balaram,etc.


These five Primary forms of God - 3 situated in Chit (Durga,Shiva,Narayana) are called Paramatma due to Their opulence.

2 are situated in Ananda (Ram,Krsna).They do not show opulence like the other three.They display rasas-multifaceted and extraordinary.
Even the Three Supreme Forms (Narayan,Shiva,Durga) are attracted by These rasas.

The others, Ganesha,Kali,Sarasvati,etc. are the associates of These Forms of God and are Their sva-amsas.

[Hiwaunis]

I am doing some research into the many forms of Devi, and I have come across something that is interesting, which is the relationship between Parvati, Kali, Durga. They way I have understood it is that it goes from the lighter, gentler aspect of Devi, Parvati, through to Durga, who is motherly yet defends with force, and kali, who is desruction. But in other places I have read that Kali and Parvati are manifestations of Durga, and in others that Durga and parvati are manifestations of Kali and so on. So, can someone please exlain the relationship these godesses have with each other?

Thanks,

Wilfred.

Pranam Wilford,
Why are you researching Adi-Shakti?

Hiwaunis

[wcrow]

Pranam Wilford,
Why are you researching Adi-Shakti?

Hiwaunis

Thats a good question. I suppose that when I looked into the hindu religions one of the aspects that first struck me is the "feminine divine", which is a concept absent from abrahamic religions but is found in mine, and many other non-abrahamic traditions.
I enjoy learning about religion, and how different people and societies understand the divine. Besides, many of the concepts in the hindu religions are very alien to the europeans and especially so now - and I like understanding things that seem confusing to me at first. I generally don't stop until I find an answer!

[Hiwaunis]

Thats a good question. I suppose that when I looked into the hindu religions one of the aspects that first struck me is the "feminine divine", which is a concept absent from abrahamic religions but is found in mine, and many other non-abrahamic traditions.
I enjoy learning about religion, and how different people and societies understand the divine. Besides, many of the concepts in the hindu religions are very alien to the europeans and especially so now - and I like understanding things that seem confusing to me at first. I generally don't stop until I find an answer!

Pranam,
OMG you sound just like me! So you are a seeker? I used to be a Christian. Here is a little personal info that may help you. I am of Native American and Africian decent. Both of my cultures were destroyed by the British. Native Americans decided to fight rather than surrender. Unfortunately, they lost, were almost exterminated, and forced to live on reservations where they remain today. They did however keep their culture. Africian Americans (former slaves) were not allowed to learn to read. In that period that was against the law. Eventually they did learn to read. The only book they had to learn from was the Bible. Like innocent children they believed what they read. This is the first reason they became Christians. Secondly, during American's civil war the slaves were freed so that they could become soldiers in the war. After the war was over and up until I'd say the 1990's they were treated like "dog ****". So during all that time generation after generation all they knew was what their parents, grandparents and great grandparents had read from the Bible.

A little history lesson for you. My point is many cultures have one way or another had religion forced on them.

Anyway enjoy your research on Devi. I can tell you from experience it is like swimming across the ocean. But don't just read, experiment with her mantras. You will find that Laxmi Devi is very generous. Your prosperity is just waiting for you.

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

[wcrow]

Thankyou for relating that story to me. It is very true that many cultures have a religion forced on them - the destruction of indigenous cultures is a very great crime.


Pranam,
So you are a seeker?

Perhaps. I don't know. My main motivation for learning about devi and religion in general is because I like learning about them. I thought I was happy with my religion, but I just don't know anymore. I love aspects about all religions - that is my problem! I will have to see where the wind takes me, so to speak.

[charlebs]

I remember the story of krishna dealing with durga or kali.
kali was supposed to sit in hell with demon embryo's in her womb, but vishnu asked her to incarnate with him and as she did so she immediately went to heaven.
and those demon embryo's were the first 6 brothers of krishna. they were killed at birth.

but what I like to know is whether people already praised durga and kali before the birth of krishna or that it's all because of him!