Austerity

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam all:

Tirukkural 267:
"As the intense fire of the furnace refines gold to brilliance, so does the burning suffering of austerity purify the soul to resplendence."
(from Himalayan Academy translation)

So for Sivaratri, we discussed fasting. I am looking for and thinking of ideas for other simple austerities. I think it is always good to have reminders of the nature of the world we live in, and this operates on many levels. (Environmental impact for one. development of personal will for another)

I'm reminded of the truth in a Rolling Stone song "You can't always get what you want."

Being able to do without is a boon to survival and long life. One of the simple things I do on a quasi regular basis is walk. Our temple is about 8k away, and 3 or 4 times a year, I walk. The local mall is about 5 k return, and if I have to pick up only one or two small items, I often walk. Same thing to mail a letter, go to neighbourhood store etc. I am wondering how others remind themselves on a regular basis to practise austerity a bit.

Hopefully others can give some suggestions or testimony of what works.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam EM


Vannakkam all:

Tirukkural 267:
"As the intense fire of the furnace refines gold to brilliance, so does the burning suffering of austerity purify the soul to resplendence."
(from Himalayan Academy translation)



Tapas or austerity Is one off the pillars of Hindu Dharama, in satya yuga emphasis was on tapas, unfortunately we are conditioned for easy life in this age our austerity pales to insignificant in comparison to Rishi of yore. never the less our effort must be measured on our handicap we are fast loosing our ability, in this age of seeking after comfort.
　


I'm reminded of the truth in a Rolling Stone song "You can't always get what you want."

True to a large extent but I am also of the opinion there is nothing that is impossible if you really put your heart in it. Success will always follow just that you need a bit of patience it may take a life time. another form of tapas!




Being able to do without is a boon to survival and long life. One of the simple things I do on a quasi regular basis is walk. Our temple is about 8k away, and 3 or 4 times a year, I walk. The local mall is about 5 k return, and if I have to pick up only one or two small items, I often walk. Same thing to mail a letter, go to neighbourhood store etc. I am wondering how others remind themselves on a regular basis to practise austerity a bit.

You are a man after my own heart, if I can walk I will not use my car. It is sad to notice people have forgotten that we have these legs that takes us from one place to another.

I think on average I must walk about 20km a wk.

on Sivratri day I must have walked about 25km visiting 4 temples but the beauty about walking, for me is I automatically I start chanting mantra in my mind. Hard part was 2hr wait in the queue.

In India people take vows to go to a particular temple either because their wish had been fulfilled or have their wish come true, its kind of bargain they make.some do it for the love of it. If you notice they walked for miles to go to their chosen temple, some walk some rolls and others do danvat . It is amazing, I came across all of these when I did Govardhan parikrama barefoot twice, the hard bit was the blazing sun, the last few kilo meters, of 21 km walk, ones resolve is really tested.

I like to walk to our Kula devi temple Ashapura maa residing on a hill top near Porbandar, it is about 56 kilo meter walk, this is when I go to my ancestors home town in India.

I suppose going on pilgrimage could also be counted as austerity or not?

A lot of Hindus go to Tirupati and have their head shaved.

I must say Zain’s fast are extremely difficult.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

You are a man after my own heart, if I can walk I will not use my car.

Namaste GP: Thanks for the input. If you think its bad in India, you should come to Canada. I guess we have one valid excuse, and that is extreme cold weather. But I know people who will drive a block to a store. No wonder we have obesity problems. I do walk a lot more myself in the summer.

I have rolled and done tonsuring as well. I really like tonsuring. It sort of puts you 'out there' like a full prostration, South Indian style. Some days IO think I need to take fast from HDF.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jivattatva]

Hare krishna

I was reading a booklet I recently got from Vrindavan. Its about scriptural injunctions against meat eating. However there was a quote there about austerity and I thought I should post it here.

Mahabharata santi pharva 111.6

O calm ones! Understand that austerity does not mean torturing the body. It means practice of ahimsa (non-violence) truthfulness of speech, mercy, control of senses and non-hatred.

M S P 162.9

O great king! Ahimsa, truthfulness of speech, charity and control of senses are supreme austerities; mere fasting is not austerity.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Jivattatva:

Thank you for pointing this out. Ahimsa, truthfulness, mercy etc are all addressed in the Tirukkural as well.

Over the years, I have come to see that different sects etc view austerity in different lights. In general austerities are more Saiva or those on the renunciate path. For the Murugan bhaktar doing kavadi, or the pilgrim walking from Kashmir to Kanyakumari, or even up to Kedarnath, it is in addition to ahimsa, truthfulness, etc, not as a replacement for. Of course there might be exceptions, those who are deceitful about any or all of it.

Religion aside, austerity has its benefits. For example, many naturopaths or ayurveda doctors will have patients undergo fasting of some sort.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam All

Pranam All

Mahabharata santi pharva 111.6

We do not know the context with which the quote was made.

There is no doubt in my mind the 4 Pillars of Hindu Dharma stands on and they are in no particular order, are

Tapa, Satya, Ahimsa and Pavitrata ie Austerity,Truthfulness, Nonviolence and Purity. These are all interconnected.
For instance Tapas performed to harm some one will fall foul of Ahimsa and so on, but Tapa of young DruvMaharaj is exemplary.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

duplicated

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

I have always wondered at the relaxed, swan-like walk of BhagavAn Sathya Sai Baba, with a gentle impression of the entire feet toe to heel for every step! He appears floating as he walks, reflecting the thoughtless fullness of his mind.

I have also thought about as to why walking is usually spoken of as the best form of exercise. Now I understand the why, and here it is:

516

Keep Walking.....
Just to check this out......
The Organs of your body have their sensory touches at the bottom of your foot, if you massage these points you will find relief from aches and pains as you can see the heart is on the left foot.

Typically they are shown as points and arrows to show which organ it connects to.

It is indeed correct since the nerves connected to these organs terminate here.

This is covered in great details in Acupressure studies or textbooks.

God created our body so well that he thought of even this. He made us walk so that we will always be pressing these pressure points and thus keeping these organs activated at all times.

So, keep walking...

So, more than the distance the manner of walking is important, isn't it?

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Saidevo:

Thank you for the knowledge, and also for the motivation for me to get offa my _____ and walk to the mall. (about 6K return) It was clear and pristine here.

Aum Namasivaya

[Jivattatva]

I'm sorry if I didnt explain myself.

My point is this: if you walked that is not austerity. Afterall even atheists or agnostics do that all the time.

Walking and thinking , as you say, about the impermanence of this world and the environment, to me is not what the Bhagavad Gita means by the goal of austerity. We may torture our body by walking 80 miles

but (Bhagavad Gita 18.24) action performed with great effort by one seeking to gratify his desires, and enacted from a sense of false ego, is called action in the mode of passion.

And (B.G. 18.23) that action whoch is regulated and which is performed without attachment, without love and hatred, and without desire for fruitive results is said to be in the mode of goodness.

So my question to E M is : what is your state of mind when you sweat it out on your 6 km walk?

As a Gaudiya Vaishnava, real austery is when you dovetail it to Krishna, because

B.G. 18.48 Every endeavour is covered by some fault, just as fire is covered by smoke. Therefore one should not give up the work born of his nature, O son of Kunti, even if such work is full of fault.

[Eastern Mind]

So my question to E M is : what is your state of mind when you sweat it out on your 6 km walk?


Namaste Jivattatva:

Firstly, I am not a Gaudiya Vaishnava. I am a Saiva of the Natha Sampradaya. So right from there, our views will and should be different. I do not accept the Gita as scriptural authority in the same way you would. That does not mean I don't revere it. It just wouldn't hold the same import to me as it would to you, just as the Christian Bible would not hold the same importance to you or me as it would to the Christians. The Agamas, the Vedas, the hymns of the Tamil Nayanars, and especially the writings of my own Gurus are my primary scriptures.

Today, I walked straight and relaxed in no hurry. (So I wasn't sweating it out.) I looked around and tried to see God Siva in the trees, in the people, in the blue sky, in the chilly temperature, and His presence being all-pervasive. I mentally chanted the panchakshara as I walked. My end destination was a store that sells decent incense. Of course there were some distractions like traffic lights. But when I returned I felt better like I might after visiting temple or doing puja or seva. It was also a calming time, and some insights came on how I should help with a pair of refugee boys whose educational care is partially in my lap.

Other times for austerity, especially for Murugan (who, as a Gaudiya Vaishnavite, you would likely know less of) things do get more intense for myself and for others. A more common austerity that you might relate to is the cleansing of the 22 wells of Rameswaram. All I know is that I feel better after such austerities. I feel humbled, more spiritualised, and rejuvenated. The spiritual batteries are recharged in a dynamic way.

I appreciate the vastness within Hinduism, but my path is far less intellectual than most. There is often less common ground to stand on for me than for many because of this. I've witnessed several rational intellectually gridded Hindus absolutely deny any kind of miracles for instance. But to me it is just natural.

So when you go for a walk (assuming you do) what are your thoughts?

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

True to a large extent but I am also of the opinion there is nothing that is impossible if you really put your heart in it. Success will always follow just that you need a bit of patience it may take a life time. another form of tapas!



Namaste GP: I'm not sure exactly what you meant, but I feel that the belief that nothing is impossible is one that is continued by so called self-esteem and positive thinkers of the west. As a teacher, I encountered it far too much. Parents had this opinion about their kids when it should have been more to the idea of 'doing your individual best'. I'll give you an example physically. I'm quite sure that with this physical body my karma got me into in this lifetime, even if I would have lifted weights and did sprint training like a madman, my best time in the 100m would never have gotten under 12 seconds. So its obvious physically that you can't always get what you want. But mentally and spiritually, its harder to see. There are certain handicaps emotionally or intellectually that are invisible to the untrained eye. I never got calculus either. I never will. It was beyond my intellectual capacity for this lifetime. Neither did I marry the world's prettiest model.

I prefer honesty towards oneself (and to others - with tact, or course) in all facets of life. Success does not always follow patience. Try teaching a kid with a learning disability for awhile and you'll know what I mean. So you have to redefine success to fit the individual.

Of course, in the grand scheme of things (perhaps this is what you meant) we are all headed to moksha, so that may be the greatest individual 'success' of all.

Aum Namasivaya

[shian]

about walk and reflexiology

today we have shoes, many street or mall is very flat

ancient people is not use shoes, they walk at pebbly street
so the stone will do reflexiology for foot.
That is one reason why life in villages is more health

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté EM,


if I would have lifted weights and did sprint training like a madman, my best time in the 100m would never have gotten under 12 seconds.

Shouldn't you be at the Olympic Games in Vancouver?

http://www.vancouver2010.com/gfx/00/07/33/lg-vancouver2010_16d-aJ.gif (http://www.vancouver2010.com/)

[Eastern Mind]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté EM,



Shouldn't you be at the Olympic Games in Vancouver?

http://www.vancouver2010.com/gfx/00/07/33/lg-vancouver2010_16d-aJ.gif (http://www.vancouver2010.com/)

Yes, come to think of it, on ice skates, on skis, on a horse, or in a car, I probably could do 100 m in less than 10 seconds. I hate to admit this, but I was a curler in earlier days. Only you and a couple of others would get this at all. Maybe if someone from India can take the time to explain the crazy game of cricket, I could explain the crazy game of curling.

First you need ice... then you need beer ... not necessarily in that order.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste,

Yesterday I was talking to one of my best friends, a Catholic, and he was telling me how he was getting ready for Lent. For those of you who don't know, Lent is a Christian tradition of prayer, penitence, asceticism, etc. lasting forty days from Ash Wednesday to Easter. The forty days represent the time Jesus Christ spent fasting in the desert and being tempted by Satan. Christians who take part in Lent usually "give something up" for the forty days and engage in some form of self-denial. Some things include fasting, sleeping on the floor, no television, no sweets, etc.

That really got me thinking about the concept of penance in Hinduism. After reading about penance in the Christian tradition, I read about prayascitta: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pr%C4%81ya%C5%9Bcitta
I know it's not quite the same thing as austerity, but they are similar. I guess when Jivattatva said austerity is not torturing the body, prayascitta can be seen as that. Although I wouldn't quite call it torture. An example of prayascitta would be sleeping on the floor. Prayascitta could also be walking long distances just to take a toll on the body as an act of penance for sins. On the other hand, austerity would be walking long distances and, as Eastern Mind said, seeing God in the trees, in the people, and in the sky.

The two go hand in hand, but I guess prayascitta is more of a type of pennance and takes a physical toll to repay sins. Austerity is doing something ascetically to move closer to God. Not to say you can't move closer to God while doing prayascitta, but austerity usually isn't a type of penance to repay sins that's supposed to take a physical toll on the body.

[Eastern Mind]

a physical toll on the body.


Namaste Ramakrishna: Interesting stuff. Thank you. I think it might be interesting to examine just what is a physical toll on the body.

Walking, unless it is for ridiculously long periods, is no physical toll at all, quite the contrary in fact. Its called exercise and its good for the body. Sure you might be stiff for a day. Professional athletes, especially in sports like ice hockey, rugby, boxing, etc. take a much greater toll on bodies, even risking permanent knee damage, concussion, etc.

Even piercing kavadi, although it takes mental toughness at the time, and may look horrible, has no long-lasting effects.

The other concept besides repayment for sin, and bringing one closer to God, both of which you mentioned, is the idea of 'clearing the way'. Perhaps it is prepayment for sin. The most common example is stopping to break a coconut before undertaking a major task. The whole idea of praying to Ganesha to remove obstacles is this idea in a simple way. The feeling one gets from this is confidence, a sense that God is with me on this one. I used to do 108 prostrations before beginning a school year, for example.

Aum Namasivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam EM


Namaste GP: I'm not sure exactly what you meant, but I feel that the belief that nothing is impossible is one that is continued by so called self-esteem and positive thinkers of the west. As a teacher, I encountered it far too much. Parents had this opinion about their kids when it should have been more to the idea of 'doing your individual best'.

Off course you are looking at from western perspective, I acknowledge the limitation and thus it would be foolish for someone to pursue something that fly against someone natural ability, having said that even here the positive encouragement is something I still value, nothing can be accomplished without dedication and endeavour. How many times do we hear this, oh what a surprise, why? because they may have exceeded their limitation.
　
　


I'll give you an example physically. I'm quite sure that with this physical body my karma got me into in this lifetime, even if I would have lifted weights and did sprint training like a madman, my best time in the 100m would never have gotten under 12 seconds. So its obvious physically that you can't always get what you want. But mentally and spiritually, its harder to see. There are certain handicaps emotionally or intellectually that are invisible to the untrained eye. I never got calculus either. I never will. It was beyond my intellectual capacity for this lifetime. Neither did I marry the world's prettiest model.

All those could be achieved if the desires are there and that is why I said it may take life times. Our desires and karma is what shapes our future and we are afforded suitable body to accommodate those desires.



I prefer honesty towards oneself (and to others - with tact, or course) in all facets of life. Success does not always follow patience. Try teaching a kid with a learning disability for awhile and you'll know what I mean. So you have to redefine success to fit the individual.

I agree our life should be rooted in sat, success or failure is academic but patience is a virtue, and fruits of dhiraj are always sweet. I do not doubt the difficulties in teaching a disable child but one does not give up eventually that does produce results.

Coming back to austerity our focus is not on material achievement although it can lead to that goal if so desired.

Numerous personality have aceived seemingly impossible task from Bhagirath to bring Ganga on earth, Vishvamitra to chalange Vasistha, 5 year old Druva to have a kingdom bigger then his father, sati Savitri to save her husband from Yamraj to name but a few,

I do believe that desired goal is achieved by application and dedication but not without patience though, because if our bhagya in this life time may stops us, then in the next or the next it should come to fruition.

Success may mean different thing for different people and you rightly pointed the ultimate success is to achieve liberation and this does not come without Tapas of one form or the other. Lord Krishna says, Dhira who is not bewildered.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

GP: Thanks for clarifying you were coming from an Eastern perspective. I wasn't sure, therefore the long winded explanations.

From the Eastern perspective, for myself I would never attain those goals as they are not what I now desire. My main desire now is the Self, so I am in the process of ridding myself of those worldly desires of fame etc. But this is relatively rare. It is true for most of us on HDF, I would guess. I once interviewed a Hindu palmist for a magazine article. He gave me a free reading, and then asked if I had any questions. When I asked something reagrding my spiritual progress, he said it was an odd question as most people asked only about money.

Aum Namasivaya

[kd gupta]

Vannakkam all:

Tirukkural 267:
"As the intense fire of the furnace refines gold to brilliance, so does the burning suffering of austerity purify the soul to resplendence."
(from Himalayan Academy translation)

So for Sivaratri, we discussed fasting. I am looking for and thinking of ideas for other simple austerities. I think it is always good to have reminders of the nature of the world we live in, and this operates on many levels. (Environmental impact for one. development of personal will for another)

I'm reminded of the truth in a Rolling Stone song "You can't always get what you want."

Being able to do without is a boon to survival and long life. One of the simple things I do on a quasi regular basis is walk. Our temple is about 8k away, and 3 or 4 times a year, I walk. The local mall is about 5 k return, and if I have to pick up only one or two small items, I often walk. Same thing to mail a letter, go to neighbourhood store etc. I am wondering how others remind themselves on a regular basis to practise austerity a bit.

Hopefully others can give some suggestions or testimony of what works.

Aum Namasivaya
Great thought in fact , pl see....
Tapaswibhyo’dhiko yogee , The Yogi is thought to be superior to the ascetics .
tapashchaasmi tapaswishu , I am austerity in ascetics.

So what is the difference between Tapa and yoga . Some scriptures place tapa above yoga .

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam all
To go that extra mile is the different between achieving that goal be it material success or to transcend this material world, tapas or perseverance is one off the tool.

I got this in my mail I thought I share, hope it is relevant.

http://www.212movie.com/ (http://www.212movie.com/)

Jai Shree Krishna

[satay]

namaskar,
Do you know where the music is from in the background? I really loved the background music.


Pranam all
To go that extra mile is the different between achieving that goal be it material success or to transcend this material world, tapas or perseverance is one off the tool.

I got this in my mail I thought I share, hope it is relevant.

http://www.212movie.com/ (http://www.212movie.com/)

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam satay


namaskar,
Do you know where the music is from in the background? I really loved the background music.

It sure is very beautiful, unfortunately i have no idea who wrote the music, try contacting simpletruth.com they might be able to help.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Jivattatva]

Great thought in fact , pl see....
Tapaswibhyo’dhiko yogee , The Yogi is thought to be superior to the ascetics .
tapashchaasmi tapaswishu , I am austerity in ascetics.

So what is the difference between Tapa and yoga . Some scriptures place tapa above yoga .





I think Bhagavad Gita 4.18 explains the point you raise.

One who sees inaction in action, and action in inaction, is intelligent among men, and he is in the transcendental position, although engaged in all sorts of activities.

I understand this to mean that, if one engages himself in activities whose goal is to get him fixed on Krishna
consciousness, then there is no question of not doing or doing.

[kd gupta]

That is the shloka , which forced Krsn to address as...
Klaibyam maa sma gamah paartha naitat twayyupapadyate;
Yield not to impotence, O Arjuna, son of Pritha! It does not befit thee.

We all should follow . Thank you .