Language Barriers in Hinduism

[ScottMalaysia]

This thread is sort of a spin-off thread from the "Question for Hindu Converts" thread. Has anyone encountered language barriers in their Hindu community? Has anyone been to a temple where they didn't understand a word of what is going on? How did you cope?

This doesn't just apply to converts, but also to Indians who might have moved to a different place. For example, a Malayalam or Tamil speaker from Southern India who moves to, say, New Zealand, where a large proportion of the Indian population are Gujarati speakers. Or a Bengali speaker from Calcutta who moves to Malaysia, where most Hindus speak Tamil.

Also, has anyone encountered a temple where most of the service, except the bhajans and slokas, was in English? I'm not counting ISKCON because they are mainly Westerners. What I mean is a temple where the majority of devotees are Indian, but where the satsang and Gita class is in English instead of an Indian language.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Scott:

Of the temples I have been to, the only one I know that has lectures in English is the Vishnu Mandir in Toronto. The pundit there figured out that if he was to keep the second and third generations interested, he'd better speak in English. I'm not sure today how it is, but when I was there he spoke Hindi - English - Hindi - English, translating as he went along.

You have so correctly pointed out that it is not just a problem for westerners. It is problem in India itself to some degree. On my pilgrimage my driver was Kannada mother tongue, quite good in Hindi, and less yet in English, Tamil, and Telegu. So when we encountered Tamil only (95% of the time) he was more capable than I was but not by much. I was lucky in some cases where friendly not so shy people would come right up and start talking in English just out of politeness or curiousity or both.

I have seen groups and individuals gravitate to temples solely based on language. Even in the temple I go to, and indeed in many, there are 'language' nights. Here the Andhra Association, the Kerala Association, and the Kannada Association all sponsor one puja a month. So on those nights if I go all I hear is these languages. Of course for me it is always the same because I don't understand any of them.

During the regular Sunday puja, if I were a linguist, I'm guessing I might hear 5 or 6 or more languages. English, French, Hindi, Punjabi, Tamil etc

My personal solution is a focus on it is God's house, not the devotees, so as long as that is why I go I'm fine. Still it is nice to engage in conversation with someone during prasadam time. I do understand your question.

So is this temple entirely Gujurati? Do they at least have a schedule published in English? Perhaps other groups come other nights. I'm happy for the Gujurati community in New Zealand that they have a temple that feels like home to them. There must be a sizable population of Gujarati speakers there.

Aum Namasivaya

[goodlife]

I think the title of the thread is mis leading. There are no barriers in Sanatan Dharm, language or otherwise.

The barrier comes when you have to communicate with people who speak language other than yours. More apt title could be diversity in Indian languages

[saidevo]

namaste EM and SM.

How about Sanskrit? Do the temples abroad have their puja rituals performed using Sanskrit mantras, shlokas and storas? In Tamilnadu, the priest performs archanA--worship in Tamil in most temples (specially those financially administered by the state), where the devotee asks for it. However, in all the temples built according to the Agama shAstra, the main pujas and worship are in Sanskrit only.

[satay]

namaste Sai,

The temple priests in my city (in canada) do their pujas and rituals in sanskrit. However, most if not all discourses whenever that happens are in english.

I am not a temple goer but if I attend on sunday I have seen the priest of one temple, pick a verse from the gita, say it in sanskrit and then give the meaning in english.

I am always on the fence for using english in the temple. On the one hand it is good for those that don't know hindi like the younger generation or non indians but on the other hand, it is not good for those older indians that don't know much english and much rather hear and enjoy the discourse in hindi.

To Scott and EM,
Perhaps you will think that I am anti social but on the rare occassions that I do go to temple, I hardly ever pay attention to other people there and what they are doing or what they are speaking. Mostly people are engaged in personal talks and not at all 'present' in the temple.

Why do you need to talk to others in the temple anyway?



namaste EM and SM.

How about Sanskrit? Do the temples abroad have their puja rituals performed using Sanskrit mantras, shlokas and storas? In Tamilnadu, the priest performs archanA--worship in Tamil in most temples (specially those financially administered by the state), where the devotee asks for it. However, in all the temples built according to the Agama shAstra, the main pujas and worship are in Sanskrit only.

[Eastern Mind]

Satay: Here it is quiet upstairs on the temple, and talking occurs in the basement after the puja during prasadam. In fact often ig people do begin talking upstairs, the manager or a board member (or someone like me on occasion) asks them to move downstairs. So I am with you.

Saideva: Pujas here are all in Sanskrit. There is room in the liturgy at our temple for one singer to sing a couple of Thevarams, but that happens only if a suitable singer is present.

At the temple I attend (South Indian style) there is no pundit speaking like in North Indian style.

Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

Pranam Eastern,

I wish I could say the same for our temples. One of the reasons why I stopped going so often is that people just talk about personal stuff in the puja room. There is of course the dowstairs hall but still people just talk in the puja room too though quietly but still. In my opinion, it gives bad vibrations.

Some even have their phones and bluetooth devices plugged into their ears! Younger generation sitting with their feet pointing towards the murthis. It is really crazy...

I wanted to ask you. In your temple do the women pour water over the shivlingam? Not many women seem to know this tradition that women shouldn't be pouring water or milk right over the lingam. It should be offered to the lower side walls not top. This could be north/south tradition thing though...





Satay: Here it is quiet upstairs on the temple, and talking occurs in the basement after the puja during prasadam. In fact often ig people do begin talking upstairs, the manager or a board member (or someone like me on occasion) asks them to move downstairs. So I am with you.

Saideva: Pujas here are all in Sanskrit. There is room in the liturgy at our temple for one singer to sing a couple of Thevarams, but that happens only if a suitable singer is present.

At the temple I attend (South Indian style) there is no pundit speaking like in North Indian style.

Aum Namasivaya

[Eastern Mind]

Pranam Eastern,

I wish I could say the same for our temples. One of the reasons why I stopped going so often is that people just talk about personal stuff in the puja room. There is of course the dowstairs hall but still people just talk in the puja room too though quietly but still. In my opinion, it gives bad vibrations.

Some even have their phones and bluetooth devices plugged into their ears! Younger generation sitting with their feet pointing towards the murthis. It is really crazy...

I wanted to ask you. In your temple do the women pour water over the shivlingam? Not many women seem to know this tradition that women shouldn't be pouring water or milk right over the lingam. It should be offered to the lower side walls not top. This could be north/south tradition thing though...

Satay: We have a big sign at the front: No cameras, please turn your cellphone off, please be silent, no cooked food etc. To be honest, it doesn't always work, but it sure helps a lot. So when someone's cell phone does go off, they either get embarrassed, or someone kind of gets to them and heads them to the basement or outside. Last year at the festival these two guys were standing visiting beside me for about 5 minutes right during archana. I finally just politely said, "Please, if you must talk, please go downstairs." They shut up.

This is a South Indian style temple so only brahmin priests of the temple are allowed inside the shrines. So it is not just women. We have had to stop a few North Indians unfamiliar with the customs of a South Indian temple from entering on occasion. Usually we try to be polite. There is a sign on the entrance there too, but it is only in English and Tamil, not Hindi, Gujurati, Punjabi as that would make for a large sign I guess.

I have seen outdoor lingams where everyone can do abhishekaham on their own. There was one in Rameswaram for this purpose, there is one on the grounds or Kauai Aadheenam. One day there might be one here. At the sacred lake in Mauritius it is set up where several people can do abhishekam at the same time. There is a round building/structure where half pipe culvert things go down to a central spout which allows the water to flow in the lingam.

Having said all this, I'm sure its one of the reasons I much prefer to go alone. Then surely it is quiet, unless I am muttering things to myself.

Aum Namasivaya

[ScottMalaysia]

So is this temple entirely Gujurati? Do they at least have a schedule published in English? Perhaps other groups come other nights. I'm happy for the Gujurati community in New Zealand that they have a temple that feels like home to them. There must be a sizable population of Gujarati speakers thereFrom what I've seen, the temple is entirely a Gujarati temple. Most of the devotees I've talked to speak good English (many with New Zealand accents!) but Gujarati is most likely their mother tongue and the temple is probably the only place where they can meet up with other Gujaratis and speak their own language. The first time I went I saw a few young women, but I haven't seen many youngsters there except on Maha Shivaratri. Possibly they don't speak Gujarati well so that's why they don't go regularly.

The worship at this temple consists of reciting slokas (which I think are in Sanskrit), listening to a reading from the Gita and a sermon in Gujarati, singing bhajans in Gujarati, and then Arati which is sung in Hindi (Om Jai Jagdish Hare), followed by Kapur Gauram, a couple of other verses, and then the bhajan Raghupati Raghava Raja Ram. More bhajans are sung while prasad is being distributed.

Most Indians in Wellington are Gujarati speakers. Those who speak Tamil probably go to the Kurinji Kumaran Temple, which is about 20 minutes out of the main city. The ISKCON temple is in the same suburb.



I wanted to ask you. In your temple do the women pour water over the shivlingam? Not many women seem to know this tradition that women shouldn't be pouring water or milk right over the lingam. It should be offered to the lower side walls not top. This could be north/south tradition thing though...

On Maha Shivaratri, I watched as people entered the temple, they lined up along the right-hand side of the temple, where the Shiva Lingam was. Each person poured milk over the Shiva Lingam. Women did this too.


This is a South Indian style temple so only brahmin priests of the temple are allowed inside the shrines. So it is not just women. We have had to stop a few North Indians unfamiliar with the customs of a South Indian temple from entering on occasion. Usually we try to be polite. There is a sign on the entrance there too, but it is only in English and Tamil, not Hindi, Gujurati, Punjabi as that would make for a large sign I guess.

At the front of our temple, the area where the Deities are is separated from the main temple by a railing. There is a sign on the railing door saying "No Entry". Only the pujari enters this sacred area. However, the Shiva Lingam is on the right-hand side of the sacred area, and people lean over the railing to perform the Abhisheka.

[sanjaya]

This thread is sort of a spin-off thread from the "Question for Hindu Converts" thread. Has anyone encountered language barriers in their Hindu community? Has anyone been to a temple where they didn't understand a word of what is going on? How did you cope?

This doesn't just apply to converts, but also to Indians who might have moved to a different place. For example, a Malayalam or Tamil speaker from Southern India who moves to, say, New Zealand, where a large proportion of the Indian population are Gujarati speakers. Or a Bengali speaker from Calcutta who moves to Malaysia, where most Hindus speak Tamil.

Also, has anyone encountered a temple where most of the service, except the bhajans and slokas, was in English? I'm not counting ISKCON because they are mainly Westerners. What I mean is a temple where the majority of devotees are Indian, but where the satsang and Gita class is in English instead of an Indian language.

I encounter this on a fairly regular basis, not only at temples, but also when I visit my parents. Sadly my parents did not see it fit to teach me anything besides English, but my Father knows Sanskrit (fluently, I believe), and this is how he performs pujas. If I were to get all my information from the temple or puja liturgy, I would have no idea what's going on.

However, I don't know that I would consider this a "problem," per se. I tend to see the temple primarily as a place of worship of God, rather than learning. It's important for all of us to learn about the pujas and other rituals at home, where we can read books and converse with more knowledgable people in English (or whatever our native language is). And I say this as someone who is quite guilty of ignorance. Perhaps I'm getting to philosophical here, but from a sociological perspective, the purpose of religion is to separate the sacred from the profane. Now it's true that Hinduism is more of a way of life than a religion, but there's a sense in which Hindu rituals help to establish an awareness of the sacred in our lives. I have always believed that performing pujas in Sanskrit helps to maintain that awareness. I can scarcely imagine a puja being conducted entirely in English. I suppose I have no logical reason for saying this, but I don't know that I could take such a puja seriously. I've found that it helps to have a familiarity with the stories of Hinduism. Hindu iconography is rich with symbolism and allusion, and knowing the stories about our gods allows us to perceive the meaning of the pujas and other rituals that take place in temples, even if I don't understand most of what is being spoken.

Of course, from what I'm reading here there seems to be a great diversity in the way temple rituals are conducted. I suppose my experience may not be representative of other Hindus.

[ScottMalaysia]

I can scarcely imagine a puja being conducted entirely in English.

No. But the temple could at least provide a book with the Sanskrit or Hindi on one side and the English on the other. This is what traditional Catholic churches do (traditional missals have Latin on one side and English on the other so you can understand the Mass). Of course modern Catholic churches have the Mass in English or whatever language is spoken, which detracts from the sense of the sacred that is present when the Mass is said in Latin. It would be the same if we sang "O Lord of the Whole Universe" instead of "Om Jai Jagdish Hare".

[MananAtma]

I responded to your "Question for Hindu Converts" thread and mentioned the language barrier problem. Alot of the Aarti and other ceremonies are in either Hindi or Sanskrit. Most of the time it is possible to get translations.

For example, during the recent New Years Havan, booklets were handed out that had the entire, very long, ritual written in Sanskrit, pronounciation of the Sanskrit, and english translation. As an english speaker who is horrible with other languages, I found it easy to follow along, and most of the time it seemed like I was saying the words right.

I also mentioned that the priests at my temple do not speak english. This no longer matters. Once, after Aarti, I was feeling especially alienated and standing in the back of the crowd, Swamy Ji pushed his way through the crowd to bring me Prasad. Some how he must have known I felt out of place, and that I knew what Prasad ment. Despite the language barrier, he knew what to do to make me feel welcomed.

Later, I also realized that he did what he did to let the rest of the temple know that HE accepted me. They got friendlier after that.

Shanti,
Roy