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Sudarshan
03 September 2006, 02:35 PM
wwwavdot1611dotorg/hell.html

That page scared the heck out of me. This God must be a tyrant and his salesmen no better.

DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!

nekozuki
03 September 2006, 04:20 PM
wwwdotav1611dotorg/hell.html

That page scared the heck out of me. This God must be a tyrant and his salesmen no better.

DON'T BE CAUGHT DEAD WITHOUT JESUS!

I've seen this before. It is Christian propaganda. If you want to read about actual NDE reports read the books by Moody.

sarabhanga
03 September 2006, 05:47 PM
Namaste,

I have mentioned this before, but EVERY link to a web-page, whether in praise or in condemnation, actually gives that page more weight in search-engine rankings. Some people will of course stumble across the web-pages that warn away from the untruth and correctly inform, but MORE people will simply be more easily directed to the scum that has consequently risen higher and higher in search-engine results.

Please think about this before gratuitously posting links and creating threads that merely introduce more people to some inflammatory rubbish that will increase the sum total both of anger and of ignorance in the world.

satay
03 September 2006, 06:36 PM
Admin Note:
namaste all!

Please refrain from posting links to adharmic sites. Sarabhanga has tried very hard to make our forum on the top rankings on most of search engines. On some engines we are number 1 already! This type of adharmic link affects our search engine ranking and not to mention leads people away from dharmic site to adharmic one. Not something we want to do.

Thanks,

sarabhanga
03 September 2006, 06:54 PM
Namaste Satay,

It is not any effect on the ranking of HDF that I am concerned about here, but mainly the general effect that such links to misinformation have as their numbers increase (and especially if they appear on web-sites which are themselves well rated by the search engines). And the end effect may easily be that even more internet searchers will more readily find the misinformation. Unless of course the misleading web-site starts providing links back to web-pages that present the true story ~ which is very unlikely!

sarabhanga
03 September 2006, 07:39 PM
Namaste Sudarshan,

Imagine a well-intentioned Hindu activist, who uses multiple IDs on multiple Hindu forums, and regularly posts things like "Have you seen this page, it is full of false information about Dharma" (for example).

After a few short discussions there could be dozens of links to that misinformation placed all over the internet. And they will all be related (in a search index) with the terms "information about Dharma".

Most reasonable people do not search the internet for "false information about Dharma", but the results they get for "information about Dharma" will be tainted by all of those unnecessary links.

Just imagine how much misinformation about Dharma that internet activist could actually promote to high visibility in search-engine results. And imagine the damage that he/she might actually be causing to the original noble intention of defending true Dharma.

:cool1:

sarabhanga
03 September 2006, 09:28 PM
And (while on the subject) if anyone feels that they must point out the existence of Adharma on the internet, it would be best if a fully informative refutation or alternative view is also given in the same place. Or at least provide a link to another page where such a refutation or correct explanation has already been published (rather than just a direct link to the misinformation itself).

If this cannot be done, then it would be better (in public forums) to simply bury the misinformation with total silence.

Sudarshan
04 September 2006, 07:58 AM
Admin Note:
namaste all!

Please refrain from posting links to adharmic sites. Sarabhanga has tried very hard to make our forum on the top rankings on most of search engines. On some engines we are number 1 already! This type of adharmic link affects our search engine ranking and not to mention leads people away from dharmic site to adharmic one. Not something we want to do.

Thanks,


Infact you do not perhaps know of the situation in Tamil Nadu. The missionaries are on an all scale "no holds barred" propaganda, and are ditributing leaflets to every house. I found one such lying on my front yard a few months back with warning!! Repent for your sins and confess to Jesus Christ or else... Poor Hindu maybe frightened. As if this were not enough some of our Hindu gurujis are simply trying to promote peace by equating Jesus and Krishna. Due to such brainwashing, one of my relatives converted to Christianity for some monetary concession. This relative then started trying to convert others in the family, but did not succeed. It is the personal right of an individual to follow a religion, but Hindus seem to be least bothered and the mode in which it is happening. If the trend continues there will be very Hindus left in Tamil Nadu after 20 years. An entire village near Kanyakumari converted 2 years ago, because bible was served with bread and butter. So many fellow Christians are suffering in poverty all over the world, and this christian community is not addressing that but is interested in getting new converts so that more people can be saved. They rarely care about people, just numbers. My relative who converted was duped after conversion - they promised a fixed amount every month, and after some time refused to pay any as she did not visit the church often. I dont think there is any provision in Srivaishnavism to accept "christian converts" again. Maybe they dont it but we must do it. All Hindu sects must have an active conversion and reconversion strategy to accomodate such cases and not look down upon these people.

This propaganda is now being done openly on walls, trees, billboards and what not and Hindus are simply wondering what to do. Hindus cannot do the same thing because Government will ban any such thing. I suggest we take these issues very seriously. Our think tank should come up with something. If somebody could take a busride from Kanyakumari to Madras, they will know immediately what I am saying...the bus route shows it all.

saidevo
04 September 2006, 08:22 AM
I live in Tamilnadu too.

There are cases where people who work as housemaids (their husbands having very meager income or unemployed) are lured into Christianity whereby the school education of their children is taken care of, and one person in a family gets employed by the missionaries. All the family members are given Christian name prefixes to their Hindu names and are strictly advised to abstain from their Hindu culture. Such housemaids don't even take the special food prepared on Hindu festival days, because they have got jnanasnanam. And finally they realize that nothing comes really free, for they are asked to remit a fixed percent of their income (at least Rs.100) every month to the church!

And there are cases of educated youth who are employed well and are enjoying a hi-profile life falling in love with their Christian workmates, leading to the beginning of diaster in their Hindu familes, the worst of such diaster being their Hindu family tree is truncated for ever.

Sudarshan
04 September 2006, 08:56 AM
And there are cases of educated youth who are employed well and are enjoying a hi-profile life falling in love with their Christian workmates, leading to the beginning of diaster in their Hindu familes, the worst of such diaster being their Hindu family tree is truncated for ever.

Yes, invariably a mixed marriage means conversion and sometimes mass conversion of the family.

Are you getting any of these missionary leaflets too? I found that one morning a copy of the "new testament" was thrown into my house at night, which should be called by the name of trespassing. with some nice words in it- We pray for your safety. They throw their nets like this expecting some catch. When they get one, it is not only a new convert but another agent for future conversions.(within his family)

sarabhanga
04 September 2006, 09:07 AM
To my mind, it is impossible for anyone to ever actually be converted from one faith to another, unless of course their original faith was not well founded in the first place ~ in which case, is it conversion or merely an attempt at education?

"Conversions" and "re-conversions" ~ really, what is actually being converted here? Certainly not anything to do with true devotion or firm conviction or complete faith! As far as I can see it is only switching between Avidya and Ignorance ~ and switching only for social convenience or a desire for financial gain. :(

Where are the wise Brahmans of Tamil Nadu? It is clear that (in general) properly advising the people on spiritual matters has not been their major concern. And perhaps an even more important question is where is their next generation, armed with proper knowledge of Dharma and actively supporting the faith in their local communities??

sm78
04 September 2006, 09:18 AM
I have seen areas which were almost fully converted by chiristians and seen how a single Hindu sadhu can turn the table and make entire areas fully Hindu again. But there are very few such Karma Yogis in our hindu communities. We mostly hava jnana yogis.

Hard to believe but if eben some hindu's deciede they want to stop aggretion to their dharmas we can do it. Most of us are not willing to risk it all for dharma. We are more happy to be intellectual about it.

I think divine plan is simple if we can't live by our dharma, people will leave for easier brainwashing religions. Main threat to hinduism is ultimately Islam. If we are not going to stand upto the Islamic challenge, I see large scale conversion to Xianity as blessing in disguise. With Islam we will loose it all and there will be no dharma in the world. With modern Xianity, I'm not sure, few dharmics will be allowed to live. And Islam has a very poor trac record against Xianity owing to similarity in beliefs.

Sudarshan
04 September 2006, 09:31 AM
Where are the wise Brahmans of Tamil Nadu? It is clear that (in general) properly advising the people on spiritual matters has not been their major concern. And perhaps an even more important question is where is their next generation, armed with proper knowledge of Dharma and actively supporting the faith in their local communities??

I think what is happening is the traditional hold is getting lost. The previous generation of Brahmins and others were usually versed in vedas and knoweldgeable about the tradition and Hindu Dharma in general. Nowadays, there is no such thing taking place - and young people are either never introduced to religion or dont take any interest. Such people find it far more easier to understand the 100 page bible than our voluminous literature. It is even more easier to understand the 3 page versions of bible that are distributed. Not only that, Christian missionaries in rural areas spread lies about Hinduism by quoting parts of it out of context and distributing it. How will rural folk understand this deciet? We can do the same thing with the bible, but Hindu will go to jail.

Perhaps Christianity has simplified everything with its mantra of "know nothing, do nothing, just Jesus" and Hinduism is more complex to understand? I still find Smartas and Srivaishnavas knowledgeable( the two main traditions of TN) regarding their own beleifs and not too many will convert for any reason. The same is not true of the lower strata of the society, and with some Hindus proclaiming that all religions are one and the same, and if our people beleive that , they are more than happy to forsake their original ways in exchange for some money.

You are right. The firm faith and beleif is not there in the first place, else no conversion will take place. But Christianity does not care for beleif, their sole aim is numbers. So we cannot afford to be indifferent, and we have to reconvert even if the issue of faith is not important. It preserves the tradition and the future generations.

On CF I found myself challenged by some christians that they can convert every Hindu in India and it was only a matter of time. The Southern Baptist Church of India was involved in serious controversies a while ago for mocking at other beleifs in public and refusing to take back their words. How could we let this happen, with the government taking no notice of these public slander of majority religion by minority faiths? They are actually issuing an open challenege at Hindu Dharma, while our secular parties are not bothered to step in. Countries like Singapore have banned Christian Missioanaries in toto - we should precisely do that if the trend continues.

sm78
04 September 2006, 09:32 AM
To my mind, it is impossible for anyone to ever actually be converted from one faith to another, unless of course their original faith was not well founded in the first place ~ in which case, is it conversion or merely an attempt at education?

"Conversions" and "re-conversions" ~ really, what is actually being converted here? Certainly not anything to do with true devotion or firm conviction or complete faith! As far as I can see it is only switching between Avidya and Ignorance ~ and switching only for social convenience or a desire for financial gain. :(

This is true at a personal level. When I look at a single convert, I will give the same logic. re-converting a Xian may not directly mean that this person is switching to vidya from avidya. I'm sure that their beliefs and understanding are at such a level that it makes no difference. For these peoples their personal understanding of God must have been similar in both Traditions.

However forces are acting at a societal level here and consiquences are not what you say. We are seeing disappearence of advanced understanding of religion from this part of the world. Nature of Xianity is aggression and intolerance. Thus loosing one guy is not merely loosing one guy but one more enemy. Vivekananda told this long long back. If ultimately this indicates to a time where there will no more be any dharma in this part of the world ~ it can't be a good thing!!!. When we look at it from societies point of view and not merely "I-You" persons there is a lot and lot to be done on the part of the hindu's. This falls in the domain of social duty and those with Kshatriya mind-set must jump in.

And I have seen in real life that even a single Hindu can turn the table against many churches for there is not comparisson between the power of dharma and adharma.

If only I had such power and fire of sacrifice!!! :dunno:



here are the wise Brahmans of Tamil Nadu? It is clear that (in general) properly advising the people on spiritual matters has not been their major concern. And perhaps an even more important question is where is their next generation, armed with proper knowledge of Dharma and actively supporting the faith in their local communities??

Where are the brahmanas in general?? I think they stopped advicing the general lot in spiritual matters long long back and had been interested in amassing property under their lineage.

Sudarshan
04 September 2006, 09:49 AM
This was one of them:

wwwdotreligioustolerancedotorg/sbc_pray2.htm

sm78
04 September 2006, 10:16 AM
> Hindus seek power and blessing through the worship of gods and goddesses and the demonic powers that lay behind them."
> Hindus lack a concept of sin or personal responsibility."
> ...the darkness in their Hindu hearts that no lamp can dispel.''
> ...demonic powers lie behind Hindu gods."
> ...more than 900 million people lost in the hopeless darkness of Hinduism."
> Walking through the streets of India during Divali is a sobering reminder of the power of darkness that lies over this land."
>Mumbai [India] is a city of spiritual darkness. Eight out of every 10 people are Hindu, slaves bound by fear and tradition to false gods."
> Satan has retained his hold on Calcutta through Kali and other gods and goddesses of Hinduism. It's time for Christ's salvation to come to Calcutta."
> Hindus live under ''the power of Satan.''



It is indeed amazing to see, how hateful they are to a religion which has nothing against them and no relation to them.

If I didn't had the idea about Asurik mindset and Asruk dogmas I'd have remained baffled at this ~ non-abrahamic religions just cannot understand this level of hate speech. It is close to maddness.

When the hate is a reaction to adverse treatment by others, it is a natural reaction. Such hate can be controlled by love as love is what they want.

But when hate has no basis other than self-determinism and maddness, no love can cure it. Tolerance to this mindset only makes them more powerful and determined.

Sudarshan
04 September 2006, 10:44 AM
In Tamil, Brahmins are called by the name "parppAn" which means a seer or sage. In olden days the Brahmin was synomous with a sage with awakened consciousness through the practice of Yoga. Unfortunately, this has degenerated into a myth.

Hinduism is loosing out because of loss of Yoga. We have remained bookish and in the absence of transcendendal knowledge, we have no more proof than Adharmic religions. We must revive the Yogic cult to revive true Dharma - a handful of true Yogis in day to day life is more than enough to shut out adharmis. An adharmi will shudder to even look at such a person, leave alone abuse our tradition.

Hindus must believe in verifying God right here rather than going to some distant planet like the adharmic religions. That is the only fool proof way of preserving the tradition. Hindus have always been scientific even in matters of religion and we must keep that tradition going somehow. A few such people can transform the faith of entire masses by their grace.

indianx
04 September 2006, 12:00 PM
Countries like Singapore have banned Christian Missioanaries in toto - we should precisely do that if the trend continues.
Hi Sudharshan,

I was reading an article about religion in Singapore earlier and I thought these parts were somewhat relevant:






The growth of Christianity and of those professing no religion was greatest in the Chinese community, with most of the Christian converts being young, well-educated people in secure white-collar and professional jobs. Most converts joined evangelical and charismatic Protestant churches worshiping in English. About one-third of the members of Parliament were Christians, as were many cabinet ministers and members of the ruling party, which was dominated by well-educated, Englishspeaking Chinese. The association of Christianity with elite social and political status may have helped attract some converts.


By the late 1980s, some Buddhist organizations were winning converts by following the Protestant churches in offering services, hymnbooks, and counseling in English and Mandarin. A Buddhist Society at the National University of Singapore offered lectures and social activities similar to those of the popular Christian Fellowship. Some Chinese secondary students chose Buddhism as their compulsory religious studies subject, regarding Confucianism as too distant and abstract and Bible study as too Western and too difficult. They then were likely to join Buddhist organizations, which offered congenial groups, use of English, and a link with Asian cultural traditions. In the late 1980s, other Chinese whitecollar and skilled workers were joining the Japan-based Soka Gakkai (Value Creation Society, an organization based on Nichiren Buddhism), which provided a simple, direct style of worship featuring chanting of a few texts and formulas and a wide range of social activities. The more successful religious groups, Christian and Buddhist, offered directly accessible religious practice with no elaborate ritual or difficult doctrine and a supportive social group.
...

The government, although secular, was concerned, however, with the social consequences of religiously motivated social action and therefore monitored and sometimes prohibited the activities of religious groups. The authorities feared that religion could sometimes lead to social and implicitly political action or to contention between ethnic groups. Islamic fundamentalism, for example, was a very sensitive topic that was seldom publicly discussed. Throughout the 1980s, the authorities were reported to have made unpublicized arrests and expulsions of Islamic activists. The government restricted the activities of some Christian groups, such as the Jehovah's Witnesses who opposed military service, and in 1987 the government detained a group of Roman Catholic social activists, accusing them of using church organizations as cover for a Marxist plot. The charismatic and fundamentalist Protestant groups, though generally apolitical and focused on individuals, aroused official anxiety through their drive for more converts. Authorities feared that Christian proselytization directed at the Malays would generate resentment, tensions, and possible communal conflict. As early as 1974 the government had "advised" the Bible Society of Singapore to stop publishing materials in Malay. In late 1988 and early 1989, a series of leaders, including Prime Minister Lee Kuan Yew, condemned "insensitive evangelization" as a serious threat to racial harmony....

From the same article: In 1988 the Ministry of Community Development reported the religious distribution to be 28.3 percent Buddhist, 18.7 percent Christian, 17.6 percent no religion, 16 percent Islam, 13.4 percent Daoist, 9 percent Hindu, and 1.1 percent other religions (Sikhs, Parsis, Jews).
----
In 2000, more than 40% of Singaporeans professed to be Buddhists according to http://www.singstat.gov.sg/keystats/c2000/religion.pdf and Wikipedia.

satay
04 September 2006, 08:07 PM
Infact you do not perhaps know of the situation in Tamil Nadu.

namaste,
Yes, I know the situation in Tamil. Similiar situation exists in the north.
But please I request you again to not post any links to adharmic sites on this forum. If you must post a link then at least provide a counter link as sarabhanga suggested. Also, if you must post an adharmic link for reference then don't post it as a url. Do what I did with your links...

okay?

Thanks for following the site rules.

vedic_kings
05 September 2006, 12:51 AM
What I don't understand is why would a hindu convert to a religion that is least understanding in life?

In other words, a hindu would be giving up alot!

Sudarshan
05 September 2006, 11:21 AM
What I don't understand is why would a hindu convert to a religion that is least understanding in life?

In other words, a hindu would be giving up alot!

Yes, but the Christian does not understand why the Hindu has least understanding of religion. Similarly, each of us within Hinduism feel a bit like that. This point would be highly relative. We laugh at their views, and they laugh at us. They say that we have to simply believe them on blind faith, but we dont strictly - though without a bit of faith you cant get started.

Sudarshan
05 September 2006, 11:37 AM
namaste,
Yes, I know the situation in Tamil. Similiar situation exists in the north.
But please I request you again to not post any links to adharmic sites on this forum. If you must post a link then at least provide a counter link as sarabhanga suggested. Also, if you must post an adharmic link for reference then don't post it as a url. Do what I did with your links...

okay?

Thanks for following the site rules.

Ok...

I have some other important job now and will see you after a while. Bye till then.
:)

sarabhanga
09 September 2006, 07:42 PM
Namaste,

Sannyasa (or Yati) is the final ashrama of the Brahmana varna, and true sannyasins are devoted ENTIRELY to Brahman. The first ashrama is Brahmacarya (without which no one may truly be classed as a Brahmana). And between initial Brahmacarya and final Sannyasa (when the world is completely renounced), the primary duty of all Brahmans is TRANSMISSION ~ service between immortal Brahman and mortal human. The Brahmana must gain proper education and then USE that special knowledge in guiding and educating others, directing their praise to Brahma and distributing the grace of Brahman (i.e. Shiva) as prasadam to the faithful.

There are (relatively) few wandering saints in South India, and in some places (especially in Tamil Nadu) they are actually unwelcome! But there are very many who call themselves a Brahamana, and I suspect that many Brahmans today have used the privilege afforded to them by society to get an excellent education in Medicine or Engineering or Information Technology or anything else that will bring financial reward to themselves and their family, while neglecting their sacred studies and practices and (especially) their sacred duty to the wider community of Sanatana Dharma.

saidevo
10 September 2006, 01:45 AM
Namaste Sarabhanga,


Namaste,
The Brahmana must gain proper education and then USE that special knowledge in guiding and educating others, directing their praise to Brahma and distributing the grace of Brahman (i.e. Shiva) as prasadam to the faithful.

There are (relatively) few wandering saints in South India, and in some places (especially in Tamil Nadu) they are actually unwelcome! But there are very many who call themselves a Brahamana, and I suspect that many Brahmans today have used the privilege afforded to them by society to get an excellent education in Medicine or Engineering or Information Technology or anything else that will bring financial reward to themselves and their family, while neglecting their sacred studies and practices and (especially) their sacred duty to the wider community of Sanatana Dharma.

1. While it is a fact that less and less Brahmins are choosing the veda patashalas, it is also a fact that the demand of the services of vedic brahmins has gone down drastically in Tamilnadu, specially in the semi-urban and rural areas, thanks to the trend of rational marraiges and decreasing practice in performing vedic ceremonies at home. Even in Mylapore, Chennai, one can find a majority of poor vedic brahmins but then there are some others who are in demand, well paid, own two-wheelers and pay income tax.

2. The practice of conducting homely vedic rituals for the benefit of the family and the society is almost absent, even in brahmin homes. Most vedic rituals are done as a group and in matams.

3. Education in Medicine is a very, very remote chance for brahmins in Tamilnadu! Hardly two or three make it to the selection. Brahmin doctors and lawyers, predominant in the sixtees, is a rarity now. Brahmins get little representation in the state assembly and in government jobs. Government schools and universities employ mostly people from other castes. Brahmin temple priests earn very little in urban and rural areas and their families suffer from poverty. Brahmins are even cleaning toilets in Delhi!

The indifference and neglect Brahmins face in Tamilnadu, specially in the hands of the politicians, is the main reason for the youths venturing into Engineering and IT for education and going abroad for jobs. While it is true that the lure of money is a great influence in a Brahmin's life (like everyone else's), the lack of opportunities and the lack of respect are more predominant reasons for the downward curve in brahminical values.

Sudarshan
10 September 2006, 03:06 AM
Namaste Sarabhanga,



1. While it is a fact that less and less Brahmins are choosing the veda patashalas, it is also a fact that the demand of the services of vedic brahmins has gone down drastically in Tamilnadu, specially in the semi-urban and rural areas, thanks to the trend of rational marraiges and decreasing practice in performing vedic ceremonies at home. Even in Mylapore, Chennai, one can find a majority of poor vedic brahmins but then there are some others who are in demand, well paid, own two-wheelers and pay income tax.

2. The practice of conducting homely vedic rituals for the benefit of the family and the society is almost absent, even in brahmin homes. Most vedic rituals are done as a group and in matams.

3. Education in Medicine is a very, very remote chance for brahmins in Tamilnadu! Hardly two or three make it to the selection. Brahmin doctors and lawyers, predominant in the sixtees, is a rarity now. Brahmins get little representation in the state assembly and in government jobs. Government schools and universities employ mostly people from other castes. Brahmin temple priests earn very little in urban and rural areas and their families suffer from poverty. Brahmins are even cleaning toilets in Delhi!

The indifference and neglect Brahmins face in Tamilnadu, specially in the hands of the politicians, is the main reason for the youths venturing into Engineering and IT for education and going abroad for jobs. While it is true that the lure of money is a great influence in a Brahmin's life (like everyone else's), the lack of opportunities and the lack of respect are more predominant reasons for the downward curve in brahminical values.

I could'nt have said it better...

While a brahmin cant get a seat with 95% score somebody else gets the seat for a 40% score - a trend that will lead science and development to the age of cavemen.

Brahmins certainly have to keep pace with times. They have to adorn these offices and cant become sanyasins. But the spiritual core must keep burning amidst the material life- which is on the decline. Cleaning toilets should not become an excuse for Brahmins to keep away from religion - these two are not connected.

Karma Yoga is all about doing one's own work without motive or expectation of rewards( whatever it is) , and combining this with spiritual side of life..

sarabhanga
10 September 2006, 03:52 AM
Namaste Saidevo

1 & 2. The demand for vaidika Brahmans went down drastically soon after the advent of Buddhism, and the widely perceived importance of sacrificial vaidika rituals has never returned. But that has no bearing on the importance of vedantika Brahmans.

3. In any normal population, one should expect that Vaishyas outnumber Brahmans by a ratio of about ten to one. And no true Brahmans should have any desire for election to public (government) office ~ which duty may be accepted, but certainly never sought, making success in modern “democratic” politics quite unlikely. So it should only be expected that the Brahmana varna would be far less represented in politics and government jobs. And since government schools do not seriously teach anything about Dharma, why would any true Brahman wish to work in such an establishment?

There are very many Mandirs and Maths all over India, and many of them collect enormous amounts of money by donation from pious devotees. And some of this should be funding schools that inspire Brahmacaris with true knowledge of Sanatana Dharma and sends them out to inspire others by their true words and devoted actions.

Surely, there are plenty of opportunities for a true Brahman; and any special degree of respect must be deserved (not merely expected as a birth-right that demands nothing in return).

saidevo
10 September 2006, 10:42 AM
There are very many Mandirs and Maths all over India, and many of them collect enormous amounts of money by donation from pious devotees. And some of this should be funding schools that inspire Brahmacaris with true knowledge of Sanatana Dharma and sends them out to inspire others by their true words and devoted actions.


You have raised a million dollar question! As you are aware, the temple funds are controlled by the HR & CE department of the State Governments. And sure, they are misued for political ends and for appeasing the minorities. Swami Dayananda Sarasvati has recently raised his voice against government control of hindu temples, with the support of several other acharyas.

The day the governments, start spending at at least some percentage of the money for establishing Vedic Gurukulas will be a golden day for Hindu Dharma, and I am sure, many brahmins would return to their tradition. As of now, we don't even have the luxury of dreaming it.

sarabhanga
10 September 2006, 06:59 PM
How can an avowed “secular” government justify having special state-government departments for the administration of Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments?

Are there equal departments controlling all of the non-Hindu Religious and Charitable Endowments? And if so, are they not allowed to put their funds back into education and the maintenance of their own institutions?

In Tamil Nadu (at least) the HR & CE department controls all places where public worship occurs ~ including every (active) mandir, sadhu’s samadhi shrine, guru’s ashram, and acarya’s math!

If the property and finances of the very many such places is NOT directed towards the maintenance of Hindu Dharma in the local communities, then this is a scandalous situation that should not be tolerated by any Hindu!

There should be no problem with independent auditing of finances to ensure that the funds are not improperly used, but if the maintenance of temples and other infrastructure is neglected, and the spiritual education and general prosperity of the those who have provided the funds in the first place (the Hindu community) is ignored, then this is surely at the heart of the problem we are discussing!

In the “democratic” political system, the majority wins. So, those who really should understand what is at stake here (i.e. the brahmana and kshatriya) will likely represent less than 20% of the population, and without even convincing the general vaishya, there is little hope of winning an election when even larger numbers of naïve shudras and the followers of other religions will never have any interest in supporting brahmans and brahmana institutions.

This kind of secularism is a virulent poison indeed!

Sudarshan
11 September 2006, 03:22 AM
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23franc.htm

As I always maintained, the Brahmana must rise spiritually by the practice of Japa, otherwise he is non different from others and cant expect any more respect than anybody else, and his plight will continue.

Many Brahmins I know do not perform Sandhya Vandanam. Some of them have moved into Bhajans while completely ignoring mother Gayatri which is a Brahmana's primary duty. He has to perform it sincerely with all dedication three times a day and must do the Gayatri mantra meditation several thousand times a day. Long indulgence in such devout meditation will lead to Gayatri Siddhi - let us see who can insult a Siddha Brahmana. If the entire Brahmanical society becomes such Siddha Brahmanas, the situation will resolve itself.

Gayatri will never desert her devotees. The word Gayatri itself means "one who protects the singer". If you ignore her just because you have other priorities in life, then face the consequences resulting from your Karma.

Sahasranama
08 January 2011, 07:52 AM
http://in.rediff.com/news/2006/may/23franc.htm

As I always maintained, the Brahmana must rise spiritually by the practice of Japa, otherwise he is non different from others and cant expect any more respect than anybody else, and his plight will continue.

Many Brahmins I know do not perform Sandhya Vandanam. Some of them have moved into Bhajans while completely ignoring mother Gayatri which is a Brahmana's primary duty. He has to perform it sincerely with all dedication three times a day and must do the Gayatri mantra meditation several thousand times a day. Long indulgence in such devout meditation will lead to Gayatri Siddhi - let us see who can insult a Siddha Brahmana. If the entire Brahmanical society becomes such Siddha Brahmanas, the situation will resolve itself.

Gayatri will never desert her devotees. The word Gayatri itself means "one who protects the singer". If you ignore her just because you have other priorities in life, then face the consequences resulting from your Karma.

Reading this thread kind a makes me sad and wondering what I can do, but this solution of yours is worth all our efforts. The practice of Sandhya Vandana has been declining, traditionally all vaishyas, kshatriyas and brahmins who had undergone upanayana were supposed to perform daily Sandhya. In the Bhagavata Purana, it is described that the warriors performed Sandhya Vandana even during the Mahabharata war. A lot of modern youth and even elders who did undergo upanayana when they were young are now saying this tradition is impractical, outdated, dogmatic, unnecessary, sectarian and comming up with tons of excuses not to do it. There was a story of Kanchi Shankaracharya and the Brahmins who complained that people were teasing them. The Acharya said that this was all because they were neglecting Sandhya, after they started the discipline again, the Brahmins were treated with respect.

Adhvagat
08 January 2011, 10:25 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Well_to_Hell_hoax

All this Hell lore makes me wonder if it has anything to do with the practice of buring people and the overly materialistic view of after-life and spirituality (gross, attached to the most dense material element, Earth) Christians tend to have.

sanjaya
08 January 2011, 01:00 PM
Haha, this is funny, even if it is a four year old thread. I recognize the "AV1611" from my conversations with Christians. Some Christians out there believe that the King James translation of the Bible is specially inspired by God (sort of like the Quran) and that all other translations of the Bible are false. "AV1611" comes from the fact that the King James translation, made in 1611, was called the Authorized Version. This ridiculous Christian behavior is a good thing though, it gets them into fights with other evangelical Christians, and pretty much leaves Hinduism off of their radar. Don't get me wrong, these guys would probably put Hindus in the same category as drug dealers, devil worshipers, and rock stars. But I doubt these people will be going to "heathen India" to convert anyone, lest they have to tolerate our non-Christian stench.

Christian infighting...I can't speak from experience, but I imagine it's like watching an episode of Jerry Springer. That said, I do agree with them on the rock 'n roll issue. :)

charlebs
07 April 2011, 10:08 AM
in the mahabharata they digged the earth to hell. of course this can be interpretated as pretty much anything.

who can say they actually met the lower planetary system. maybe the king of earth actually lives inside earth like the rumours say and kalki will arrive from that place =D

I've discussed the hollow earth theory with intellectuals but they thought gravity somehow always pulled a balloon in space inside itself due to gravity always being to the centre or something awkward like that

but imagine something inside the space balloon being attracted to the fabrik of the balloon. where would it go. (they immediately go OH NO, the balloon would collapse due to its own gravity!!)

funny stuff especially when those intellectuals are stoned as hell. (I'm immune to it for a long time )

would be cool to discuss though, why would the earth collapse if it was hollow and why would you be able to float in it if it were true. neglect the formation of a hollow earth, that's not important to the argument.

Rationalist
07 April 2011, 06:17 PM
in the mahabharata they digged the earth to hell. of course this can be interpretated as pretty much anything.

who can say they actually met the lower planetary system. maybe the king of earth actually lives inside earth like the rumours say and kalki will arrive from that place =D

I've discussed the hollow earth theory with intellectuals but they thought gravity somehow always pulled a balloon in space inside itself due to gravity always being to the centre or something awkward like that

but imagine something inside the space balloon being attracted to the fabrik of the balloon. where would it go. (they immediately go OH NO, the balloon would collapse due to its own gravity!!)

funny stuff especially when those intellectuals are stoned as hell. (I'm immune to it for a long time )

would be cool to discuss though, why would the earth collapse if it was hollow and why would you be able to float in it if it were true. neglect the formation of a hollow earth, that's not important to the argument.

Isn't pseudo-science fascinating? I love your fail knowledge in gravity.