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vcindiana
08 March 2010, 07:15 PM
Dear Yaj:

I spent some time in India experimenting on myself and returned here recently.

Under the thread Swami exposed You quote BG chapter 3 verse 17 which says “ But for the man whose delight is in the Self alone, who is content in the Self, who rejoices only in the Self, for him there is no action he need to do” and you find it perplexing.

Also Ch 3 18 says A self-realized man has no purpose to fulfill in the
discharge of his prescribed duties, nor has he any reason not to perform such work. Nor has he any need to depend on any other living being.


My humble explanation: Is “self realizing” a domain of a few God men, Saints, Sanyasis, Gurus or saints? Geeta does not think that way; it is for every one to experience. The action or the duty that is described in these verses are based on the fruit of action and is loaded with the weight of the Karma. Self realized person still has to work as we read in Ch2 verse 47 (One cannot be attached to inaction), but the work he does is not based on the fruit, it is not conditional and it is pure Love. Any thing I do in Love does not carry the weight of the Karma and so to say it is Akarma, I do not feel the weight of the action I render in love (No fruit of action) A true mother who selflessly takes care of her child is self realized and indeed a Karma yogi and she never feels tired in her actions.



Love......................... VC

yajvan
08 March 2010, 08:06 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté VC,

nice to see you back...

Dear Yaj:
Under the thread Swami exposed You quote BG chapter 3 verse 17 which says “ But for the man whose delight is in the Self alone, who is content in the Self, who rejoices only in the Self, for him there is no action he need to do” and you find it perplexing.

To avoid any confusion, I do not find the śloka at all perplexing as Kṛṣṇa's words cuts though any mala on this matter. My doubts arise from the notion of a person of high stature that is purportedly possessed of the Self would not be filled to the brim with Self and all that it brings. That is my quandary.

Yet a person fully possessed/engaged with the Self has no prescribed duties to attend to , for all has been gained; yet many still work for the goodness/upliftment of the world.

In fact if we went deeper and wider into this matter we can look at the many views kaśmir śaivism offers on the person possessed of the Self - from teaching others to perfect health, to withdrawing and just being in the Silence of the Self. We can leave this for another post.

praṇām

vcindiana
08 March 2010, 09:55 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

To avoid any confusion, I do not find the śloka at all perplexing as Kṛṣṇa's words cuts though any mala on this matter. My doubts arise from the notion of a person of high stature that is purportedly possessed of the Self would not be filled to the brim with Self and all that it brings. That is my quandary.

praṇām

May I ask you is it possible for any one to always stay at high stature? Here I want to introduce the time element. Personally I do not believe any one can reach a permanent state of complete self awareness for a simple reason that there is no growth in it. There are times I am really good and there are times I am bad. I am not sure there are people with exception to this. May be the proportions of good and bad may differ from person to person. Several stories in MB can attest to that. I find this is the very purpose behind 10 avatars. The person who is possessed with self (love) is filled to the brim for a particular moment or a period of time. There is no guarantee he would remain that way for ever. What it matters is that moment of goodness.
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~
Yet a person fully possessed/engaged with the Self has no prescribed duties to attend to, for all has been gained; yet many still work for the goodness/upliftment of the world.


The person in self or love still works ( He is not attached to Inaction BG 2 47) but does not consider as a duty expecting a fruit of action.

These are just my humble understandings.

Love... VC

vcindiana
11 March 2010, 06:09 PM
Dear Fellow Forum members:

I thanked God for the wonderful opportunity for me to recently visit Trichy, in Tamil Nad India. It was indeed one of the challenging times in my life and experiment myself to experience Love/God.

Ch 2 verse 47 in Bhagwad Geeta was the deep inspiration to me. I really wanted to experience the action alone without fruit. Volunteering is relatively new thing for me. First I need to give credit to a friend of mine in my home town to stir up my soul and providing an opportunity in serving in a homeless shelter right in my own town. I initially hesitated much. It was not my comfort zone. Having enjoyed the fellowship with the least of the community I decided to volunteer at a palliative/hospice center that cared for indigent people with terminally illness. This is located in the heart of temple city Trichy, Tamil Nad. It was an experiment to stretch my uncomfortable zone for several days. It proved to be a heartwarming experience. I guess I received much more than the people I served received. My heart goes to each one of them who are labeled “Terminal”. But the truth I realized is despite such label, Love is not terminal and it is eternal. I listened to their life stories, shared some of my own with them. We had fun taking pictures and laughing looking at those pictures of ours looking funny. I played some music using my lap top. I played “Bingo” with them. I had to make Bingo Cards just with whatever blank pages I had there. I held them and prayed silently. I tried to comfort them including some of their families. I had incredible opportunities to help not only physically but also emotionally. One lady afflicted with an advanced cancer told me how unbearable to feel the separateness as both her son and daughter have cut off their relationship with her. She was in full of tears; her physical pain was her least of the problem. I hugged her, consoled her and tried to dry her eyes.

I came to know the angels behind the scene. Lydia and Kavita are the two nurses. Saroja is an aid doing the house keeping job. Ishwari is the cook and Gannesh is the driver. Not but least VL is the one who voluntarily and tirelessly coordinates the day to day smooth function of the organization. I thank God for the opportunity in listening to the testimony of VL herself and how her own tragedy in losing her young boy transformed her life. It is incredible how God works in our lives. These were the sweet memories I will never forget.

As a pleasant surprise I had the opportunity to attend a banquet highlighted with Barat natyam (South Indian Classical dance) performed by very talented young girls clad in colorful traditional attire. The food and the fireworks were enjoyable.

I pray God to continue to help us to discover His presence in each of us all the time. I pray for those people at Hospice to have strength and courage to endure their difficult times. Each one of us is precious. I pray for VJ, Lidy, Kavi, Saro and the rest of the staff at the center not to get “Burn out’ in their work but to continue to spread Love and kindness through their respective roles.

It was indeed a beautiful time of memory and experience to share with the people at the center and realized Geeta is very much correct in saying to keep discovering God is all about unconditional action. For me that is nothing to do with any doctrines and rituals. I look forward to more similar chances to touch people. God is the experience of Love clearly stated in Geeta 2: 47.

Love VC

Eastern Mind
11 March 2010, 06:27 PM
I spent some time in India experimenting on myself and returned here recently.



Vannakkamm VC: I am seeing a mad scientist in a lab putting various liquids on his arm to test their acidity to flesh. There are test tubes everywhere with samples of said experimentation. Perhaps you could elaborate so I don't see this any more.

Aum namasivaya

vcindiana
11 March 2010, 06:59 PM
Vannakkamm VC: I am seeing a mad scientist in a lab putting various liquids on his arm to test their acidity to flesh. There are test tubes everywhere with samples of said experimentation. Perhaps you could elaborate so I don't see this any more.

Aum namasivaya

Dear EM: Your admit in your quote answering Mr. Nara “I am not being judgmental. ….. My belief is mostly from experience and as a projection of that, I also believe that most people's beliefs are from that individual's experience. If you have no experience that would lead you to believe in God, then so be it”

My answer is your quote itself. “If you have no experience in unconditional Love/God then so be it” You be the judge whether you really are advaitist. As I know an advaitist cannot compare or criticize

Love…VC

Eastern Mind
11 March 2010, 07:13 PM
Namaste VC: I'm sorry. I only was skimming, and mistakenly only read the one post, not the one about Trichy. So I totally missed the point. Won't be the last time.

Aum namasivaya

yajvan
11 March 2010, 08:03 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~
namasté VC,



May I ask you is it possible for any one to always stay at high stature? Here I want to introduce the time element. Personally I do not believe any one can reach a permanent state of complete self awareness for a simple reason that there is no growth in it. There are times I am really good and there are times I am bad. I am not sure there are people with exception to this. May be the proportions of good and bad may differ from person to person. Several stories in MB can attest to that. I find this is the very purpose behind 10 avatars. The person who is possessed with self (love) is filled to the brim for a particular moment or a period of time. There is no guarantee he would remain that way for ever. What it matters is that moment of goodness.

The person in self or love still works ( He is not attached to Inaction BG 2 47) but does not consider as a duty expecting a fruit of action.
These are just my humble understandings.


You mention

Personally I do not believe any one can reach a permanent state of complete self awareness for a simple reason that there is no growth in it.
While I see this is your personal opinion, this is not what our śāstra-s say. And since you are familiar with the Bhāgavad gītā, I would ask you to reconsider chapter 5. If more references are needed I will be happy to point you in the direction of several upaniṣad-s for your consideration.

praṇām

yajvan
11 March 2010, 10:02 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté

VC writes,


May I ask you is it possible for any one to always stay at high stature? The wisdom of the ages to be comprehended though knowledge and experience is this:

There is no difference between samādhi¹ and vyutthāna¹ when the world of duality is completely consumed in one's own full conciousness.

This is the ah-haa! experienced when one fully wakes up.

praṇām

words

samādhi - completion , accomplishment , conclusion ; perfect balance as we see in the word samā - balance, even-ness, constant, unchanged
vyutthāna - action; the world of action; independent action ; rising up. We note that vyu is to urge on , incite , animate

atanu
12 March 2010, 01:11 AM
---Personally I do not believe any one can reach a permanent state of complete self awareness for a simple reason that there is no growth in it. ---
Love... VC


Namaste Vc,

My regards for your work at Trichy.

However, I am not able to visualise how one who has attained purna will still grow and have the desire to grow. Is not that kind of desire a rajasic desire and hence indicative of not purna?

Om

yajvan
12 March 2010, 09:43 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté


If this state of stabilizing the Self, brahman, in our daily experience was fleeting, on again off again, there would be no need for Kṛṣṇa to advise us of the following:

He whose self is untouched by external contacts knows that happiness which is in the Self. His self joined in union with brahman, he enjoys eternal happiness¹.

The Self is now forever established. It does not indicate any type of temporary time.

praṇām

1.Bhāgavad gītā, Chapt 5, 21st verse

vcindiana
12 March 2010, 08:58 PM
Dear Yaj and Atanu:

Thank you for your posts. I do understand and respect your points. Please let me humbly explain how I understand, I am not telling that you need to think like me.

Samadhi, perfection, Moksha etc are in general considered fruits of action. If those were to be the end points (fruits) Geeta would have given an easier formula to reach that. But BG 2 47 makes it clear that I have no guarantee to the fruit regardless of what I consider “perfectly” executed action of mine. The point is the very action itself is Samadhi. Only thing is it has to be unattached or unconditional (Love). As I mentioned in previous post this cannot be domain of a few Rishis or Sadhus or Gurus as most of us imagine. A housewife lovingly taking care of her children and attending the daily household chores, a hard working farmer in a field or a factory worker can equally experience that bliss. I agree that the experience of that bliss itself is eternal; there is no spatial or temporal dimension. But the person who is a human being who experiences such bliss has such dimensions for the simple reason he is a material. When I factored God as an experience not as theistic person up in the sky this became clearer to me. I consider “Self” described in Geeta is the experience of Love with no dimension

In Chapter 5, verses 27 and 28 mention about physical and mental (? forced) conditions for one to get liberated. I think it may be possible in those moments, but who in the world can sit like that forever forgetting the daily chores? Does that mean Moksha is exclusive only to such people? Verse 29 very nicely concludes that to know Him in terms of sacrifice and austerity which are the very ingredients of Love.

Love…. VC

vcindiana
13 March 2010, 07:27 AM
Namaste Vc,

However, I am not able to visualise how one who has attained purna will still grow and have the desire to grow. Is not that kind of desire a rajasic desire and hence indicative of not purna?

Om

Dear Atanu:

Let me please explain my understanding. May be I am wrong. I consider Purna ( Isa Upanishad) or wholesome or Advaita are synonyms and I try to make it simple for my own understanding. All these are the experiences through which so called God is realized. In duality there is no freedom. Without freedom, fear and ego in me make my mind to compare, criticize and condemn. There is no love in duality. These “Purnic” experiences have no spatial or temporal dimensions unlike material fleeting experiences which are based on the fruits (BG 2 47). A person can only experience and he himself cannot become an experience, he is only a material with dimensions. But he keeps growing forever (eternal) with very enriching “Purnic” experiences. Rajasic desires you mention are desires in the actions based on the fruits (duality)

I do not know whether I made any sense here

Love VC

kd gupta
15 March 2010, 12:08 AM
Dear Yaj:

I spent some time in India experimenting on myself and returned here recently.

Under the thread Swami exposed You quote BG chapter 3 verse 17 which says “ But for the man whose delight is in the Self alone, who is content in the Self, who rejoices only in the Self, for him there is no action he need to do” and you find it perplexing.

Also Ch 3 18 says A self-realized man has no purpose to fulfill in the
discharge of his prescribed duties, nor has he any reason not to perform such work. Nor has he any need to depend on any other living being.


My humble explanation: Is “self realizing” a domain of a few God men, Saints, Sanyasis, Gurus or saints? Geeta does not think that way; it is for every one to experience. The action or the duty that is described in these verses are based on the fruit of action and is loaded with the weight of the Karma. Self realized person still has to work as we read in Ch2 verse 47 (One cannot be attached to inaction), but the work he does is not based on the fruit, it is not conditional and it is pure Love. Any thing I do in Love does not carry the weight of the Karma and so to say it is Akarma, I do not feel the weight of the action I render in love (No fruit of action) A true mother who selflessly takes care of her child is self realized and indeed a Karma yogi and she never feels tired in her actions.



Love......................... VC
Namaste VCji
What about these two shloka from gita….
Yadaa hi nendriyaartheshu na karmaswanushajjate;
Sarvasankalpasannyaasee yogaaroodhas tadochyate.
When a man is not attached to the sense-objects or to actions, having renounced all
thoughts, then he is said to have attained to Yoga.
Yoginaamapi sarveshaam madgatenaantaraatmanaa;
Shraddhaavaan bhajate yo maam sa me yuktatamo matah.
And among all the Yogis, he who, full of faith and with his inner self merged in Me,
worships Me, he is deemed by Me to be the most devout.

In this case everybody is free from all bondages and all limitations and is attached to parmatma and his work only .

atanu
15 March 2010, 02:39 AM
Dear Yaj and Atanu:

Samadhi, perfection, Moksha etc are in general considered fruits of action. Love…. VC

Namaste VC,

That, IMO, is the mistake. Shri Krishna does not teach it as fruit of action but as the Knowledge and the Goal of the Knowledge. Without this experience, I am afraid, the all inclusive love cannot survive in the Mind.

Om Namah Shivaya

yajvan
16 March 2010, 11:13 AM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

namasté

atanu writes,


Shri Krishna does not teach it as fruit of action but as the Knowledge and the Goal of the Knowledge. Without this experience, I am afraid, the all inclusive love cannot survive in the Mind.
Om Namah Shivaya

If one pursues knowledge as only 2+2=4 then the notion of 'perfect' knowledge will be lost looking in books. Knowing is the direct and personal knowledge, & direct experience of the Self ( ātman, brahman, the Supreme) - and we know this as svatāsiddha or svatā +siddha.

svatā = the state of belonging to one's self , ownership as sva स्व = one's own , my own.
siddha = accomplished , fulfilled , effected , gained , acquired, well-known Thus svatāsiddha is the notion of being self-revealed, self-known on a personal-subjective-intimate level .

This is the Grand ah-haaa! when the Self, reveals it-Self to it-Self.
This is His grace ( anuttara).

praṇām

vcindiana
16 March 2010, 07:01 PM
Namaste VC,

That, IMO, is the mistake. Shri Krishna does not teach it as fruit of action but as the Knowledge and the Goal of the Knowledge. Without this experience, I am afraid, the all inclusive love cannot survive in the Mind.

Om Namah Shivaya

Thank you Atanu for correcting me. So Moksha means knowledge. Does that mean it is the knowledge of freedom? Freedom has to be the core of any religion. What Geeta says "unattached" has to do about freedom. That is Freedom from the fruit of any action. As you say Love cannot be survive in the mind (understood) without the knowledge. May I add ... of freedom? Love and lack of freedom are incompatible.

Love..... VC

vcindiana
16 March 2010, 07:05 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~

Thus svatāsiddha is the notion of being self-revealed, self-known on a personal-subjective-intimate level .

This is the Grand ah-haaa! when the Self, reveals it-Self to it-Self.
This is His grace ( anuttara).

praṇām


Dear Yaj : That was your beautiful quote. I may add that Love is internal, it comes from inside in full freedom and not externally forced

Love … VC

vcindiana
16 March 2010, 07:09 PM
Dear Readers:

I mentioned in a previous post Samadhi or perfection (you may call it) cannot be a domain of a few Rishis or Sadhus or Gurus as most of us imagine. There is a strong perception among most Hindus only these God men are holier, enlighted and they have attained permanent state of perfection... What I say is a housewife lovingly taking care of her children and attending the daily household chores, a hard working farmer in a field or a factory worker can equally experience that bliss in whatever “moments” of their lives. These are indeed the experiences of “Grand ah-haaa!” as described by our dear Yaj.

As I mentioned before I did experience the bliss or the working of God when I recently spent my time visiting the institution for dying people. There was nothing to brag about myself to declare the world how good I was. If it motivates other people to experience like them, it certainly brings more joy to me. I agree that the experience of that bliss itself is eternal Grand ah-haaa!” moments, because it is indescribable with no spatial or temporal dimension.

Hope I did not confuse you. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Love ...............VC

smaranam
16 March 2010, 08:41 PM
Namaste VCIndiana

I hear you, A to Z.

Thank You for sharing your experience with us, and the underlying message.

NishkAm karma, unconditional love , working for the Lord, and the resulting bliss are all synonymous phrases.

Love is Love.

smaranam

devotee
16 March 2010, 09:20 PM
Dear VC,

You should not be worried about Samadhi, Self-realisation ... these words are used primarily with "Knowledge of Self". This path is Jnan Yoga. But Gita tells us that the Karma Yoga would also ultimately take you to the same destination. And when none other than Lord Krishna is there to guarantee that why should you bother for other things if this path suits you ??

In fact, Karma Yoga is more practical and easy path for most of us worldly people ... and this is is path recommended by Lord ... so why should I worry for anything else. I will tell you an episode :

When Lord Krishna was going from Gokul to Mathura, the Gopis became uncontrollable & started crying bitterly. Uddhava, Jnani friend of Lord Krishna compassionately thought that the Gopis are suffering due to their attachment with the name and form of Krishna. Krishna sent Uddhava to explain the Jnan Maarg to them. But Gopis were full of Krishna ... there was no place left for any Jnana or anything ... they said :

"Uddhva, we don't have ten or twenty hearts. There was only one & that went away with Krishna. Who is now there to follow the path you are suggesting ?"

Udhhav's pride of Jnana was shattered. He accepted his defeat and came back to Krishna.

OM

atanu
17 March 2010, 12:21 AM
Thank you Atanu for correcting me. So Moksha means knowledge. Does that mean it is the knowledge of freedom? Freedom has to be the core of any religion. What Geeta says "unattached" has to do about freedom. That is Freedom from the fruit of any action. As you say Love cannot be survive in the mind (understood) without the knowledge. May I add ... of freedom? Love and lack of freedom are incompatible.

Love..... VC

Dear VC

If you state that you are 'unattached' then I have nothing more to say, since I agree. But being 'unattached' and 'the desire to grow', which you stated earlier, are not synonymous, IMO.


---Personally I do not believe any one can reach a permanent state of complete self awareness for a simple reason that there is no growth in it. ---

Please do not forget the context. I know that I am always wrong, however.

Om Namah Shivaya

vcindiana
17 March 2010, 03:18 AM
Dear VC

If you state that you are 'unattached' then I have nothing more to say, since I agree. But being 'unattached' and 'the desire to grow', which you stated earlier, are not synonymous, IMO.

Please do not forget the context. I know that I am always wrong, however.

Om Namah Shivaya

Thank you Atanu for your humilty. No, you are not always wrong. I think I did not state properly and confused you. I am sorry... I did not mean there is desire in growth. Is it not growth a natural process? Often I resist growing; I do not want to become an old man!

I said “I do not believe any one can reach a permanent state of complete self awareness for a simple reason “ Isn’t self awareness part of ever growing process despite lots of bumpy roads on the way? This is where I have a problem understanding about one has reached permanent enlightenment or some Samadhi or some one has become the God/holy man etc.

Love………………… VC

atanu
17 March 2010, 04:25 AM
Thank you Atanu for your humilty. No, you are not always wrong. I think I did not state properly and confused you. I am sorry... I did not mean there is desire in growth. Is it not growth a natural process? Often I resist growing; I do not want to become an old man!

I said “I do not believe any one can reach a permanent state of complete self awareness for a simple reason “ Isn’t self awareness part of ever growing process despite lots of bumpy roads on the way? This is where I have a problem understanding about one has reached permanent enlightenment or some Samadhi or some one has become the God/holy man etc.

Love………………… VC

Namaste VC ji

Whose growth you are talking about? Self, which is beyond time transcendentally one and also immanent as our core within time, is changeless and full. Growth can only be in awareness of the Self, in intellect-ego - in terms of diminishing avidya or in terms of diminishing vidya. Both are possible.

I suggest, that if possible, you may wish to see the film "The Peaceful Warrior". It is nice film that slowly throws light on the subject. I have seen it twice and I have not found in it anything contradictory to Gita.

Om Namah Shivaya

vcindiana
20 March 2010, 10:12 AM
Namaste VC ji

Whose growth you are talking about? Self, which is beyond time transcendentally one and also immanent as our core within time, is changeless and full. Growth can only be in awareness of the Self, in intellect-ego - in terms of diminishing avidya or in terms of diminishing vidya. Both are possible.

I suggest, that if possible, you may wish to see the film "The Peaceful Warrior". It is nice film that slowly throws light on the subject. I have seen it twice and I have not found in it anything contradictory to Gita.

Om Namah Shivaya

Dear Atanu:

I did watch the movie Peaceful Warrior you suggested. I had the pleasure of watching the movie with my daughter and her b friend who happens to coach Girls soccer at a local college. We all enjoyed the movie and I thank you very much for your suggestion. The movie reminded me of my personal experience of becoming water proof as an adult. This is something previously I posted on this forum. I can write about that later if you are interested.
I guess this may be a good starting movie for me to look at “practical Geeta”, beyond dogma and religious stuffs. I am not telling this movie has every thing to know.
Please let me start with some of the impressive quotes from this movie I noted: Quotes are in bold.

This moment is the only thing that matters.

Past is only the memory and future is only a fantasy

The journey is what brings us happiness not the destination. There is only the journey.
It's the journey, not the destination. There is no starting or stopping - only doing. A warrior is not about perfection or victory or invulnerability. He's about absolute vulnerability.

Bhagwad Geeta comes to life here. It is all about doing only; it is all about action not conditioned on the destination or based on the fruits of action. There is no seeking for perfection or victory. The word vulnerability used here is very interesting. I guess it is to accept my strength in weakness. There is NO ego in my weakness. Arjuna despite being a great warrior became weak at the beginning of the war. I guess this is to prepare him to get his ego out. Krishna never promised he would win the war.

Everything has a purpose, even this, and it's up to you to find it.

I believe this is very true and it is the best attitude one can have under any circumstances. When bad thing happens I wonder why this happened in spite of doing the right action. BG distinguishes action from the fruit of action. Fruit of an action, good or bad happens … …… forgive my practical language “s...t happens”……… regardless of what I consider as perfectly executed action. The fact is only from such experiences I learn. Had Geeta guaranteed the fruits for each of my action there would not have been any learning and growing for me.
I do not know whether I am making sense

That is it for some time. Love……………….VC

atanu
20 March 2010, 11:09 AM
Dear Atanu:

I did watch the movie Peaceful Warrior you suggested. I had the pleasure of watching the movie with my daughter and her b friend who happens to coach Girls soccer at a local college. We all enjoyed the movie and I thank you very much for your suggestion. The movie reminded me of my personal experience of becoming water proof as an adult. This is something previously I posted on this forum. I can write about that later if you are interested.
I guess this may be a good starting movie for me to look at “practical Geeta”, beyond dogma and religious stuffs. I am not telling this movie has every thing to know.
Please let me start with some of the impressive quotes from this movie I noted: Quotes are in bold.

This moment is the only thing that matters.

Past is only the memory and future is only a fantasy

The journey is what brings us happiness not the destination. There is only the journey.
It's the journey, not the destination. There is no starting or stopping - only doing. A warrior is not about perfection or victory or invulnerability. He's about absolute vulnerability.

Bhagwad Geeta comes to life here. It is all about doing only; it is all about action not conditioned on the destination or based on the fruits of action. There is no seeking for perfection or victory. The word vulnerability used here is very interesting. I guess it is to accept my strength in weakness. There is NO ego in my weakness. Arjuna despite being a great warrior became weak at the beginning of the war. I guess this is to prepare him to get his ego out. Krishna never promised he would win the war.

Everything has a purpose, even this, and it's up to you to find it.

I believe this is very true and it is the best attitude one can have under any circumstances. When bad thing happens I wonder why this happened in spite of doing the right action. BG distinguishes action from the fruit of action. Fruit of an action, good or bad happens … …… forgive my practical language “s...t happens”……… regardless of what I consider as perfectly executed action. The fact is only from such experiences I learn. Had Geeta guaranteed the fruits for each of my action there would not have been any learning and growing for me.
I do not know whether I am making sense

That is it for some time. Love……………….VC

Namste VC ji

I feel glad at heart that you watched and liked the movie. You have already summarised the main theme.

Yes, remaining in the Self is remaining in the present 100%. A momentary lapse is said to give rise to a new Universe (well that is a bit esoteric). But, as my Guru teaches that it is life time's hard work (actually many life times are required). And this practise and the ability is an active one and not passive, as some think. It requires 100% attention of mind on mind and ability to draw it back to the centre. You will remember the first occassion (before the accident) when the protagonist performs exceptionally well on horizontal bars and then comes to Socrates to boast that he had demolished the opponents. He then was dwelling in the past, egoistically -- and then Socrates demolishes him.

Some other important messages were "You are as good as anyone but not better than anyone"; " Those you like to hate most are those who you need most"; "Nothing whatsoever is happening" (when actually the protagonist was made to see a stupendous amount of activity all around); and "Service".

You will also remember that finally, when Socrates disappears, our hero says "It does not matter" and after that during the main competition event, when he was on trampoline, voice of Socrates came to him from inside. The hero re-affirms that he (the hero) was the moment. The guru was then within. Socrates' vanishing away did not matter anymore. That I found was the highest teaching, which was given very early in the story when Socrates taught: "Find truth within". This I found most beautiful. And also the knowledge that one is the moment that expands.

It is not about winning or losing, it is not about crying about loss or gloating over win, it is not about seeing anyone as inferior or superior or seeing anyone as worthy of pity or envy -- since one is as good as anyone but not any better. All is same. And it is about just doing with love. The hero, through misfortune learns that the next moment is unknown but that does not stop anyone from being worry free and tranquil in the present.

It is good that you liked the movie. I suggest that our friends may like to see it.

I remember your water proofing story very well. If you wish, you may repeat it or you may link it.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya