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sambya
26 March 2010, 03:46 AM
In Bengal (and possibly the eastern side of India) there's a rule that one who is not born into brahmin caste is not allowed to offer cooked food to god as naivedyam . instead they are welcomed to offer foods like cut fruits , uncooked rice , vegtables etc to gods .

some other food items like fried breads(puri) , fried sweets etc are also considered as not belonging to the 'cooked' category .
hence they are also permitted .

but offering of boiled rice( anna bhoga ) or cooked sabji remains strictly forbidden .

i am curious to know the traditional rules in prevailing in other parts of the nation ...........

Eastern Mind
26 March 2010, 07:36 AM
sambya: Yes it will vary. Good question. Here at my multi-tradition temple, run by Sri Lankan Saivas, only the Brahmin can cook food that is offered to the deities. They have a special little kitchen for it just off the temple. However, there is a larger kitchen downstairs for cooking of Sunday lunch, or special lunches. This food is not offered to the deities, and can be cooked by anyone. The temple has a rule that food cannot be brought in from outside, but it is so difficult to enforce that it is allowed a bit when groups rent the space.

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
26 March 2010, 01:53 PM
I don't see why non-Brahmins couldn't offer cooked food to God. Do Brahmins have a monopoly on God?

As far as traditions go, strangely in my family (we're Brahmin), we don't offer cooked foods to God during pujas. Granted, mostly we only perform Satyanarayana puja, in which the prescribed prasadams aren't cooked anyway. But at the puja group in my hometown, there was never any cooked prasadam either.

sambya
26 March 2010, 03:54 PM
I don't see why non-Brahmins couldn't offer cooked food to God. Do Brahmins have a monopoly on God?

As far as traditions go, strangely in my family (we're Brahmin), we don't offer cooked foods to God during pujas. Granted, mostly we only perform Satyanarayana puja, in which the prescribed prasadams aren't cooked anyway. But at the puja group in my hometown, there was never any cooked prasadam either.

i dont think that brahmins have a monopoly in god , but that's the way it has been here for thousands of years . just as eastern mind said , only a brahmin is allowed to cook , serve or offer cooked food to the deity !

a non brahmin is not even allowed to carry the plates to the sanctum .

i think this practice has its origins in the vedantic verse ' ahar suddhau sattvasudhau " which sri ramanujacharya interpreted as -- one who intakes purified food attains to purity . impure food includes non-vegetarian items as well as pungent items like onion and food touched or cooked by materialistic or impure men . since brahmins are considered the best of men , it natuarally followed that food cooked by them are best suited to bhoga offering . hence in bengal there is a practice of hiring brahmins as cooks even by shudra rich families !!!!


you said that in you hometown there's no cooked food offering to gods . well thats something new for me ! thanks for sharing . but is that the rule for big temples too ?!

LALKAR
28 March 2010, 08:14 AM
Namaste All,

I don't think it is a big issue, most of the Avtar were non brahmans
Ram was Ikshvaku, Krishan was Yaday, but rule is rule.

Brahmans (only by Varna not birth) can do this.

There is an old rule of that (not very old, but few centuries old)
Brahman Kicthen is pure because they never cook non-veg, so only they were allowed.

Here there is no issue, we always offer fruits and other food like this, during some bhoj, anybody can cook the meal. There are already some news from different parts that, people get ill after taking polluted food

The Rule is same, food offered as prasad must be pure, if somebody dose not cook it properly they have no right do do it, no matter if they are Brahman by birth or whatever

sambya
28 March 2010, 12:14 PM
Namaste All,

I don't think it is a big issue, most of the Avtar were non brahmans
Ram was Ikshvaku, Krishan was Yaday, but rule is rule.

Brahmans (only by Varna not birth) can do this.

There is an old rule of that (not very old, but few centuries old)
Brahman Kicthen is pure because they never cook non-veg, so only they were allowed.

Here there is no issue, we always offer fruits and other food like this, during some bhoj, anybody can cook the meal. There are already some news from different parts that, people get ill after taking polluted food

The Rule is same, food offered as prasad must be pure, if somebody dose not cook it properly they have no right do do it, no matter if they are Brahman by birth or whatever
thanks for your opinion . personally i do not face any problem from this rule since im born into a brahmin family .

i must add that this rule applicable only when it comes to ritually consecrated(prana-pratishtha) deities , as in a temple . offering cooked food before non-consecrated deities or pictures are not considered a problem .
however is someone is a non-brahmin(by birth) and wants to have prana pratishtha done , he cannot offer anna-bhoga to the deity .

im eager for more views on this matter .

upsydownyupsy mv ss
10 April 2010, 05:27 AM
hmmmm.... interesting...o.k o.k.... hmmm....
I'm a brahmin. What I think is any pure hearted devotee can offer food to god. KANNAPPA proved this by offering raw deer meat to shiva(even though he is the decomposer, destroyer and described as eater of all, just like fire during pralaya and also described as the man who consumes nothing). Anyone belonging to any varna(not caste) can offer food to god, as long as the devotion is pure with innocence. Devotion is the main theme not the food.
All of us are offering food to god every second, while breathing, while eating, while digesting, while decomposing(for decomposing animals), which assimilating, we all offer the food of devotion (= butter which krishna steals), we all offer our papas and punyas and beg to reach him, He doesn't need to eat, but eats all that we offer with a pure devoted heart, for our own benefit. Take the inner subtle meaning of offering food. Rules were set to avoid non-vegetarianism even in temples.
Om namah shivaya.

vsharma
10 April 2010, 07:28 AM
In my village temple (both Siva and Vishnu), outside cooked food is not allowed neivedyam. Only food cooked inside the temple are only allowed as offering to the deity. It is irrespective of caste and every body has to follow the rules.

However fruits, coconut etc are allowed to be brought by everybody.

sambya
10 April 2010, 09:08 AM
upsydownyupsy mv ss (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/member.php?u=1694) , thanks for your input .
i totally agree that true devotion to god can break all barriers . then it becomes irrelevant as to which caste you are in . i will narrate and interesting story in this aspect . it is not a fictional one but seen with my own eyes ---------

in a rural village in bengal there lived a low caste(tribal caste) devotee boy of kali . the local zamindars of the same village used to organise for a lavish kali puja every year at their palace . however the zamindars were of brahmin blood and didnt allow any one of non-brahmin origins to step into the main mandap . this little boy did step in by mistake and was promptly thrown out .

he went back sad and dejected and decided to have his own kali puja . he built a clay deity of mother kali with his own hands and started his own puja . the brahmins objected vehemently , but since his puja was a private affair , the voices subsided after a few years . slowly his devotion and dedication formed a small group of admirers around him . he didnt marry and lived his life like a saint . slowly monetary donations started coming in .

today the same clay deity that used to sit in his mud hut sits on a big stone temple on the same spot . the entire area of his home is converted into the likeness of an ashram , with trees and creepers surrounding the place . it also has a seprate radha krishna and shiva temples . it organises a lavish durga puja for public and public spiritual festivals . devotees come to sing at mangal arati in five o clock in morning and in sandhya arati during 6 oclock in evening ! every amvasya of every month about 1000 devotees and poor people take prasad from the temple !!
all these are funded by public donations . the temple is now a hit !!!

and today those same zamidars come to seek his blessings ! and man himself is about 60 years old and lives in a modest room below the garbhagriha of the temple --as if residing below his mothers feet .






but when it comes to ritualistic worship traditional rules prevail . that is what i was asking for .. whether the traditional rules are same in other parts also . as of now i see its mostly similar ......

Sahasranama
04 May 2010, 04:50 PM
I am also a brahmin and I do not agree with this. I believe that food that is offered has to be pure, cooked when having showered, in clean pots and pans that are only used for prasada with only pure foods according to the scriptures. I have not read anywhere in the sciptures that only brahmanas can offer cooked food. Above all rules and regulations is bhakti. In the Ramayana shabari put the berries in her own mouth before she gave them to Sri Rama.

sambya
05 May 2010, 10:48 AM
I am also a brahmin and I do not agree with this. I believe that food that is offered has to be pure, cooked when having showered, in clean pots and pans that are only used for prasada with only pure foods according to the scriptures. I have not read anywhere in the sciptures that only brahmanas can offer cooked food. Above all rules and regulations is bhakti. In the Ramayana shabari put the berries in her own mouth before she gave them to Sri Rama.


thanks for your input sahasranama . even i believe that food cooked with hygine and love is sufficent to qualify as bhoga(offerable) . but at the same time im not too keen on breaking what has been going on as a rule .

not just cooked food , non brahmins arent even allowed to touch naivedyams in temple across india .

can you tell me anything about rules in your part ? (assuming that you r from india )

thanks

satay
05 May 2010, 04:00 PM
namaskar,

I didn't know about this rule but now that you mention it it makes sense. Yes, only brahmins are allowed to offer cooked food.

I am not from a brhamin family. I have no problem with this rule.

Now that I think about it, I have noticed that non-brhamin families offer cooked foods to the brhamins instead of god. Perhaps this is done because of this rule?

A few years ago, I was talking to someone in the local temple here in Canada and the person told me to go downstairs and eat the food. I told him that I am waiting for the pundit to offer food to the dieties first. He said, "no, that food from downstairs is not offered here. so let's just go and eat." I thought to myself that's strange. Normallly, in punjab the food is offered to the deities and then everyone eats as parsadam. I thought to myself this canadian temple is making up strange rules but now it makes sense...

Well, in my own case, at home, I have offered cooked food to the deities. They don't seem to mind. ;)

satay
05 May 2010, 04:06 PM
namaste sanjay,
No, it's not that brhamins have the monoply on God. It makes sense that offering of sudha food falls under the brahmin dharma. No?

sambya
06 May 2010, 12:34 AM
Well, in my own case, at home, I have offered cooked food to the deities. They don't seem to mind. ;)

even i dont think that they would mind . after all how many people in present age takes the pain of doing that much for him ??? bhavagrahi janardana !

and also , speaking from the viewpoint of shastra , the rule is applicable only to installed deities . :)

Ganeshprasad
06 May 2010, 05:33 AM
Pranam all

Can a non Brahmin offer food to gods? Why not as Satay says does Brahmin have a monopoly? Certainly not, here is my take on it, we should all offer what we eat and we should only eat that which is acceptable to Our dear Lord, because he explicitly ask for it.

yat karosi yad asnasi
yaj juhosi dadasi yat
yat tapasyasi kaunteya
tat kurusva mad-arpanam

O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me. (9.27)

In fact those who do not offer their food verily eats sin

yajna-sistasinah santo
mucyante sarva-kilbisaih
bhunjate te tv agham papa
ye pacanty atma-karanat

So there is no question as to who can offer bhoga it is a must for everyone regardless of status, but there are certain protocol one has to follow because what we offer and eat impact our lives,
therefore when it comes to offering in the temple there are certain rules one follows which may vary from temple to temple, only Brahmins would cook and offer here because the offering to gods should be done in mode of goodness, the Parsad is distributed to masses so the responsibility is higher, where else for an individual to offer at home would only effect the person in what ever mode the food was cooked and offered. But there is no bar in offering and as Krishna says offer him with love a leaf, a flower, fruit, water he would accept it.
 
Bg 9.26
patram puspam phalam toyam
yo me bhaktya prayacchati
tad aham bhakty-upahrtam
asnami prayatatmanah

Jai Shree Krishna

Eastern Mind
06 May 2010, 07:11 AM
Vannakkam:

This is another of those practices that varies from region to region, sect top sect, sampradaya to sampradaya, maybe even temple to temple within the same small village.

I remember a day here at our temple where a sincere fellow from the North of India came with his cooked prasadam of sweets, etc. to offer. The priest refused it on the grounds that at our temple doesn't allow it. Only food cooked by the resident priest is allowed as offering to the deity. The man went away offended and complained to me on the way out, unwilling to accept the principle of "when in Rome..."

Sunday lunch downstairs, as with Satay's temple, is never offered to the deities upstairs. It is cooked downstairs and stays downstairs. The temple prasadam is brought down from the temple and small amount are taken by each devotee.

Similarly, we (meaning the priests mostly) are careful about what is used for abhishekam that is given by devotees, mostly yoghurt. If the priest sees a brand name he is unfamiliar with, he takes a good look to see that it does not contain gelatin.

Aum Namasivaya

satay
06 May 2010, 08:35 AM
namaskar,


yat karosi yad asnasi
yaj juhosi dadasi yat
yat tapasyasi kaunteya
tat kurusva mad-arpanam

O son of Kunti, all that you do, all that you eat, all that you offer and give away, as well as all austerities that you may perform, should be done as an offering unto Me. (9.27)

Jai Shree Krishna

That's true too. Well...

I was merely thinking in terms of varna dharma. The responsibility of offering sudhha food should rightfully reside in the brhamin dharma. No?

Would we ask a brahmin to pick up astra and protect the non-khatra varnas? But then again there have been brhamins that taugth astra vidya to katra. So...Hmm...I don't know then what's the correct thing to do but I would respect the rules of the temple. However, I can feel the disappointment of the north indian guy who took cooked food to Eastern's temple. I would have been disappointed too but I would have offered the food to the temple priest instead and tell the lord that 'hey lord, I am offering this food to your sevak here since he won't let me offer it to you. Enjoy it through him".

Ganeshprasad
06 May 2010, 10:40 AM
Pranam


namaskar,



That's true too. Well...

I was merely thinking in terms of varna dharma. The responsibility of offering sudhha food should rightfully reside in the brhamin dharma. No?


Yes your thoughts are valid in so far as temple offering is concerned, only a Brahmin would cook and offer the food that much is clear, what to speak of Brahmin, only the ones that belong to certain institute would be allowed in that institute, that is the protocol.

Varna dharma, I remember going to another village on sankirtan years ago, the rule was that other village would feed the congregation according to each varna I.e. a Brahmin would eat at Brahmin and so on. I wanted to eat with my friends but I was told it was not appropraite, there was no malice or discrimination but just respecting the age old tradition.



Would we ask a brahmin to pick up astra and protect the non-khatra varnas? But then again there have been brhamins that taugth astra vidya to katra. So...Hmm...I don't know then what's the correct thing to do but I would respect the rules of the temple. However, I can feel the disappointment of the north indian guy who took cooked food to Eastern's temple. I would have been disappointed too but I would have offered the food to the temple priest instead and tell the lord that 'hey lord, I am offering this food to your sevak here since he won't let me offer it to you. Enjoy it through him".

Brahmins are known to have thought the art of astra but taking up arms is kshatriya dharma, that does not mean as an individual we should not protect our self, offering as an individual and offering in the temple they are two different thing.

I can understand the temple reservation of not accepting the food, why should they, who knows in what mode the food was prepared and if the purity was maintained, what are utensils used ,even if sudha food for the deities were cooked but other times the same utensil are used for other things that might not be acceptable.

There are timings to be considered, the lord in the temples are only offered at certain times. This is why I do not understand why there are so many stalls selling all this paraphernalia to offer to Gods at all the time, is god hungry all the time or want to be adorned by flowers isn’t that the job of temple and pujari to offer them at appropriate time?

Can you imagine having abhiseke all day long? These are my pet peeves, all it creates is a big mess around the temple and does not add to peace and tranquillity at the temple (I go to temple for that).

I would much prefer people donate money and the temple to have a real project from the money received to feed all parsad and help the poor. I think that would be a great offering.

Jai Shree Krishna

satay
06 May 2010, 12:06 PM
namaskar,


Pranam
Yes your thoughts are valid in so far as temple offering is concerned, only a Brahmin would cook and offer the food that much is clear, what to speak of Brahmin, only the ones that belong to certain institute would be allowed in that institute, that is the protocol.


Yes, you are right. I was confusing the two things.



Brahmins are known to have thought the art of astra but taking up arms is kshatriya dharma, that does not mean as an individual we should not protect our self, offering as an individual and offering in the temple they are two different thing.

I can understand the temple reservation of not accepting the food, why should they, who knows in what mode the food was prepared and if the purity was maintained, what are utensils used ,even if sudha food for the deities were cooked but other times the same utensil are used for other things that might not be acceptable.

There are timings to be considered, the lord in the temples are only offered at certain times. This is why I do not understand why there are so many stalls selling all this paraphernalia to offer to Gods at all the time, is god hungry all the time or want to be adorned by flowers isn’t that the job of temple and pujari to offer them at appropriate time?

Can you imagine having abhiseke all day long? These are my pet peeves, all it creates is a big mess around the temple and does not add to peace and tranquillity at the temple (I go to temple for that).

I would much prefer people donate money and the temple to have a real project from the money received to feed all parsad and help the poor. I think that would be a great offering.

Jai Shree Krishna

Amen to that!