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Eastern Mind
26 March 2010, 10:09 AM
Vannakkam:

I am wondering if anyone here has faced similar problems. The other day our temple manager shared this story:

We have a sign at the entrance that prohibits cameras, cell phones, encourages silence, says no shoes, etc. The other day, not during a crowded time, this guy is taking pictures with his camera. The manager politely goes up to him and mentions that we don't allow the taking pictures, and says there's a sign outside about it.

The fellow basically says, "I don't care. I'm taking pictures anyway," and continues.

Besides the obvious rudeness and disrespect, I wonder what temples do or can do within the law when this happens. If you wear your shoes blatantly into a mosque or light up a cigarette inside a Christian church, is there any legal precedent. Do we have the right to call the cops and/or ban people?

I sort of felt like taking down the guys license plate, finding a lawyer, and doing something. At the very least some letter reprimand by the board of trustees. At least that might keep the guy away in the future.

Aum Namasivaya

sambya
26 March 2010, 03:44 PM
obviously the guy deserved to be kicked out .

sorry if im going into a bit different topic , but your thread prompted me to ask this question to all .

im always intrigued by this 'no photography' thing !

why cant we take pictures of our loved gods ? some temples obviously house ancient deities which demand 'protection' from illegal antique dealers and thieves . so their case can be considered .

but what about the other temples ?

i think this is one among those injunctions that developed in 19th century as a result of contact with british and european ideals . just like cotton threads are not allowed in garlands coz they were from european firms !!!

does anyone have a logical explanation to this norm of not allowing photography ?

Eastern Mind
26 March 2010, 04:15 PM
sambya: I can think of several reasons, of which none or all may be valid..

1) it is disruptive to other worshippers
2) it destroys the mystical sanctity of the temple
3) it does not respect the privacy of the Gods
4) its like paparazzi, just plain rude
5) British took pictures to mock Hinduism.
6) You have to be there in person to get darshan correctly. A picture doesn't cut it.


Of course we do have in some instances, 'approved' pictures when the overseers of a temple take a really high quality picture to give as souvenirs or to devotees to take home.

Aum Namasivaya

saidevo
26 March 2010, 08:25 PM
Photographs of Hindu temple images in many cases do not bring out their glorious details as do portraits. Check, for example, the fabulous portraits of an artist called Silpi from Tamilnadu in this Website: http://artistshilpi.blogspot.com/

Type Silpi in google image search for a ready glance at his portraits. There were other famous artists like KoNdaiah RAju and Gopulu whose portraits of Gods and Goddesses are framed and used in pujas at Hindu homes.

Ashvati
26 March 2010, 09:03 PM
I'll have to keep this thread in mind and ask about taking pictures next time I visit a temple, I'm planning on bringing a camera and showing the pictures to a friend of mine who says they may end up becoming hindu eventually from exposure to me. I'd hate to find out I can't take pictures to show them.

Eastern Mind
26 March 2010, 11:30 PM
Ashvati:

Temples will vary. Please ask the management before taking pictures. That would be the courteous thing. Lots of temples wouldn't mind, I'm sure. I was just speaking about mine. But the issue goes farther than cameras. My belief is you respect the protocol in any given temple. For example, in my temple or in any South Indian style temple, I prostrate fukll out, bt when I go to a North Indian style temple, I just go on my knees. I know some temples that insist on Hindu dress, although hey are rare here. At Tiruchendur in India men arwe required to remove shirts, as if they were shoes. They won't let you in unless you do.

Aum Namasivaya

LALKAR
28 March 2010, 07:45 AM
Namaste All,

EM G,

I accept your thoughts mostly the sixth point

6) You have to be there in person to get darshan correctly. A picture doesn't cut it.

But soory to say that I do not understand other points


Mostly that are prohibited to photography are available in shops and stores, like If you go to Vaishno Devi in Jammu, you will find the Pindi Darshan photos in the market

dose this

destroys the mystical sanctity of the temple or
it does not respect the privacy of the Gods or
its like paparazzi, just plain rude or
British took pictures to mock Hinduism. :o

But this type of


3) it does not respect the privacy of the Gods

is more embressing


Sorry for this but I am writing about those points that I can't understand

Eastern Mind
28 March 2010, 08:11 AM
Vannakkam Lalkar:

I was just expressing reasons that I have heard of. I wasn't speaking for myself as if I believed in each one.

As I understand it, it is a bigger issue in South Indian temples. Since you are from the North, it may not be so prevalent there. Perhaps Devoteeji can help as he has lived in both areas.

Regardless of what I personally think, I certainly believe in respecting the rules of a particular temple, home, or country. When in Rome, .... .

I'll look around a bit on the net for answers.

Aum Namasivaya

LALKAR
28 March 2010, 08:17 AM
Namaste

EM G :hug:



and Thanks for your reply

sambya
28 March 2010, 11:59 AM
in many cases , as i have seen in north , the dictum( no photography ) is simply a way to promote the sales of the deities picture from temple commitee's office !!

NayaSurya
28 March 2010, 12:23 PM
I recently watched the documentary called "What Remains Of Us" is very good story about beautiful Canadian Tibetan Buddhist who travel home to Tibet with secret message from his holiness the 14th Dalai Lama.

It showed earnest praying Buddhist laying flat on ground while Chinese tourist ran around taking photos of them and lauging. It really upset me...that they were so disrespectful the humble servant of God.

Then it remind me of a year ago...Google Earth send hired freelance, amature photographer to photo every place. Our gated community they were also trying to get in and take pictures of our homes. We found a lady in a car on our private drive trying to take those 360 photos.

We had our private security police kick her out immediately. She was put on a banned list. If a person is on private property, you have every right to tell them to leave...and call the police if they will not.

Just last week the Buddhist temple here in Louisville was vandalized and the perp spray painted the holy statues...and then in black paint spray horrible words about the Buddha on Temple sign. It's a sad day, but be wary of those taking pictures. Perhaps to see what security there is...or to post publicly as the woman working freelance for Google.

Lucrosus
29 March 2010, 08:59 AM
Vannakkam:
Besides the obvious rudeness and disrespect, I wonder what temples do or can do within the law when this happens. If you wear your shoes blatantly into a mosque or light up a cigarette inside a Christian church, is there any legal precedent. Do we have the right to call the cops and/or ban people?


You may ask your temple manager to check with local officials as to any ordinances regarding access to religious institutions. They would be your first point of contact. Churches, temples, mosques, etc. may have additional protections that common private property does not.

Eastern Mind
29 March 2010, 10:24 AM
Lucrosus: Welcome to HDF.

The problem doesn't happen a lot, but I do have a Hindu lawyer friend who would be interested. Next time I talk to him, I''ll see what he has to say. Part of the problem is Hindu temples are non-congregational and just 'open' a lot. I think if this chap would have tried his stunt when others were in the temple, he may well have been shown the door.

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
02 April 2010, 06:13 PM
I've never had anyone tell me it's disrespectful to take pictures inside temples. In fact, I have a whole Picasa album of Hindu temple photos in Malaysia (and one in Singapore). http://picasaweb.google.com/scottymalaysia/HinduTemples#

Eastern Mind
03 April 2010, 01:32 PM
Vannakkam: So I asked my lawyer friend about this. Turns out at least in Canada we have a lot of legal rights. Basically it is private property, but we 'grant access' to individuals. If said individual is breaking the rules or guidelines of the temple, we can ask him to leave, call the police to get him to leave, and even ban him from coming again. The law is very much on the side of religious institutions. The person asking him to leave has to be in a position of authority, which could mean a trustee of the temple, a manager, or the priest. So who knows the next time someone comes in and is disobeying the rules. I am grateful at least that the law would side with the temple, very clearly.

Thank you, Lucrosus, for the suggestion.

I hope it never comes to that. But it does show you in a way the strength of the South-North divide in Hinduism.

Aum Namasivaya

Eastern Mind
03 April 2010, 01:58 PM
I've never had anyone tell me it's disrespectful to take pictures inside temples. In fact, I have a whole Picasa album of Hindu temple photos in Malaysia (and one in Singapore). http://picasaweb.google.com/scottymalaysia/HinduTemples#


Vannakkam Scott: You do have a nice collection there. I know if it were me, I would probably ask first, especially in the South Indian style temples. But then I wouldn't be taking pictures anyway because I'm just not a picture kind of guy.

Aum Namasivaya

rcscwc
14 September 2010, 08:35 AM
A temple is not exactly a secular, public place like a town hall. Even a town hall has certain rules which you must observe. Temples have a right to frame and enforce the rules they deem fit. If you do not like those rules, then don't visit them.

Photography at every odd hour does tend to be disruptive. Those camera happy people will never dream of a click inside a mosque when namaz is going on. They dare not enter a mosque with shoes on.

When you visit a religious place, you must observe certain rules.

Jodhaa
28 August 2012, 07:01 PM
Namaste!

The temple I attend has a posted sign for "No Photography", and despite the incredible temptation to take photos, I have resisted the urge. However, on large festival days and during privately sponsored pujas, devotees and family members will take photos quite openly. Despite this, I still feel as though I should respect the temple policy. I may ask permission in the future (for a project I want to work on) but until then I think the respectful thing to do is let the deities have their privacy:) In the end I doubt God cares, but I think it's out of respect for the worshipers more then anything else.

Peace!

Eastern Mind
29 August 2012, 09:13 AM
Vannakkam Jodhaa: Putting up the rules and enforcing them can be a tough call. Perhaps the board there has made a conscious decision to not enforce the rules because that sometimes comes across as being more disruptive than the photography itself. There is also the question of who is to enforce. Here, you have to have someone who is willing to enforce the rules present. If not, then yes, people will get away with it. Normally the intent is to not take photos of the deities, so they just put up a sign for 'no photography at all'. Perhaps they don't take such a harsh stand on the family pictures. Still, its easy to step outside. Unless the individuals cannot read English, and I know it, I do get annoyed at someone breaking the rules, just as speeders whizzing past you on a highway are annoying. Personally, I would never consider taking a picture inside a temple.

Certainly, its difficult for most of us Hindus who are shy by nature to walk up to a total stranger and say something. I have done it though ... on the wearing of hats, on talking on a cellphone, on talking too much during a puja, etc. In the legal sense, the temple is considered private property, and are within their rights to have someone removed, by calling the police, if necessary. We haven't yet had to do that, but we have had to deal with minor levels of beligerence. One guy taking pictures, after being asked to stop politely, asked to see the temple president, and got told off even worse. I haven't see him come back, but quite frankly, our religion doesn't need people like that.

Aum Namasivaya

Jodhaa
29 August 2012, 09:37 AM
Namaste,


There have been times when people have been unable to control their children. (and I don't mean infants -that's out of most people's control). But often devotees will let their children run around and scream loudly in the worship area, which always bothers me. Some devotees will also answer cell phones during pujas. I think it's not too much to ask for someone to turn off their phone for the brief time they are in the temple. I try my best to ignore it and tell myself I don't know what their situation is. Perhaps they have an ill relative and they are waiting for updates on their condition.

I think ultimately we have to look to ourselves for how to behave. We can't really say "Well, they were breaking the rules, so it's okay for me to." We are responsible for how we conduct ourselves.

Peace!

Equinox
29 August 2012, 11:04 AM
Vannakkam Eastern Mind, everyone




Certainly, its difficult for most of us Hindus who are shy by nature to walk up to a total stranger and say something. I have done it though ... on the wearing of hats, on talking on a cellphone, on talking too much during a puja, etc.

Aum Namasivaya

I guess you're already familiar with what I've been forced to do at temples from my rantings in other threads. The weirdest thing is that besides being shy, I'm also only 20. This makes me uncertain to warn or not. But when they get out of my nerves, like wearing footwear in temple grounds despite having been warned, or try to enter the sanctum sanctorum, besides blocking the view of other devotees with cameras and stuff, then I feel I'm obliged to warn these people, if the temple workers aren't around.

Sometimes, adult Hindus themselves misbehave, what more the tourists.

But luckily most would get to a quiet corner if their cellphone rings, and scold their children if they get noisy. If I'm not in the mood to warn, I just give them a sidelong glance, and they usually get the message. :D

Aum Namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
29 August 2012, 11:36 AM
like wearing footwear in temple grounds despite having been warned, or try to enter the sanctum sanctorum, besides blocking the view of other devotees with cameras and stuff,



Vannakkam: And then some people wonder why temples ban westerners? ... this is exactly why. I'm going to Mauritius for an extended period, staying near a Sivan koyil, but also near a European tourist town, so we'll see how it goes. I might have to become the local enforcer, :mad:
because most likely I'll be spending an hour or more a day there sitting.

Aum Namasivaya

ShivaFan
29 August 2012, 11:53 AM
Namaste

I specifically make a point of avoiding carrying cameras in such environs abroad at temples etc., and always try to "blend in" with respectful attire and footware that is appropriate or even local dress of the region. I do not bother others with questions, and am also politely open to any questions from others to me. If I can, I try to have a local accompany me. I especially am respectful and mindful of elders, priests, and children. I try to learn regional basic communication skills if possible, such as Tamil when I go to South India in the future, a place I have not visited yet.

I hate tourists with cameras who ruin the reputation of all Westerners. I also hate smart alec Westerners who think they are "yogis" and then try to tell some local elderly gentleman something about "Brahman" and such. I always worship with respect the local presiding Deva or Devi of the region, provence, county or village. I only listen and do not volunteer any preaching or viewpoint.

Om Namah Sivaya