General Japa/Mantra Question

[sacredsound]

I've been interested in "deeper" spirituality for a few years now, and I'm particularly drawn to to Bhakti Yoga. Obviously, a trademark of bhakti is the constant repetition of the names of God. Now, seeing as I live in the U.S., I don't exactly have many opportunities to receive initiation from a guru into a particular mantra. I've read from some sources that the mantra will be ineffective without the guru's blessing. This however, never really resonated with me. Now, I'm sure that the initiation would help one to make progress a lot quicker, but it never really resonated with me that the mantra will have no effect at all. Surely, God understands if one is unable to find an external guru?:(

[Ashvati]

I was never initiated into anything by a guru, but the mantra Om Namah Shivaaya as well as the mantra Om dum durgayei namaha om aing hring kling chamundaye vichche both help me.

[sacredsound]

Thanks for your reply. I know sometimes there is a concern that the mantra won't be pronounced right, lessening the efficacy, but I'm just repeating a name like "Rama," "Hanuman," etc. I definitely feel better when I chant, so I was somewhat disheartened to see some people saying it's useless.

[Ramakrishna]

It is not absolutely necessary to have a guru assign you a specific mantra and initiate you. I live in the United States also, and I mainly recite the Hare Krishna mantra and the Gayatri mantra. Those are the two most popular mantras, and no guru initiation is necessary. I was not initiated by a guru or had a specific mantra assigned to me. I just chose those two popular mantras to recite as a devotion to God and to draw me closer to God.

While some view guru initiation as beneficial and even necessary, I would think that most Hindus do not view it as absolutely necessary.

[Onkara]

Surely, God understands if one is unable to find an external guru?:(
I would say so, yes! Acceptance is a lesson we can benefit from.

The Bhagavad Gita reminds us that Krishna is both external and internal to all of His creation. One may be guided by the Lord Guru within. The mind and senses look outwards but there are also diamonds and jewels within.

Good luck!

[Ashvati]

I remember that soon soon after I converted I wanted to start chanting but didn't have a mala or know any mantras. SO, I made due by chanting Om Brahma Vishnu Shiva because the sources that initially introduced me to hinduism put a lot of emphasis on the trimurti as being the sum of all things and the Brahman being the sum of the trimurti. And instead of a mala, I actually had to count each repitition on my fingers and keep one finger out for every increment of ten (wiggling that finger slightly every time it was reached rather than skipping it) and then doing another eight repititions when I had reached one hundred. I remember that once I finally bought the supplies to make my first mala that I still wear today (even if the guru bead and one lesser bead have had to be replaced), it was the best thing that had come from my birthday that year. SO keep doing what you're doing until you find mantras that suit you better and hopefully one day our gurus will find us.

[sambya]

I've been interested in "deeper" spirituality for a few years now, and I'm particularly drawn to to Bhakti Yoga. Obviously, a trademark of bhakti is the constant repetition of the names of God. Now, seeing as I live in the U.S., I don't exactly have many opportunities to receive initiation from a guru into a particular mantra. I've read from some sources that the mantra will be ineffective without the guru's blessing. This however, never really resonated with me. Now, I'm sure that the initiation would help one to make progress a lot quicker, but it never really resonated with me that the mantra will have no effect at all. Surely, God understands if one is unable to find an external guru?:(

mantras are effective even without a gurus blessings . ancient mantras have been in use for thousands of years and many sadhaks and saints have been delivered through their japa . the sacred vibrations and energy gets stored in them . they are called siddha mantras . a common example would be "om namah shivaya" . such mantras can be of help to anyone .

however the main thing to be taken into consideration is anuraag(devotion and dedication) to lord and not just mechanical chanting . chanting with concentration and love gets you quick success .

however it would be best to avoid bija mantras like hrim ,klim , houm etc . they are too powerfull and generally require initiation and other critereas .

infact if your dedication is sincere , pronunciation alsi doesnt really matter . there a sloka in bhagavatam " murkho vadati vishnaya ............bhavagrahi janardana " which translates as -----
' a fool utters vishnaya(instead of the correct vishnave) while a wise man utters vishnave . it doesnt matter whatever is the utterence , for janradana hari only takes the bhava ( true feelings behind the words) ' .



but a guru is also needed for the large majortiy of sadhaks . few are competent enough to realize him without guru like mirabai . a guru does most of his prayers and pujas for his shisyas and world at large . his prayers and his positive energy guide you across the material existence easily . with your regular prayers , also pray that you get a true competent guru . when time's ripe he(lord) will send you his grace as a sadguru . meanwhile sustain your bhakti with the help of music(bhajans help a lot) , books , good association and visit to temples .

god bless ...........

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Perhaps you will acquire or take-up a sound vibration without instruction (oṁ śivāya namaḥ) ; yet what of the guidance of time¹, place... what of proper technique to guide the mind inward i.e. sādhana = upāya = a means by where one reaches their aim?


What mantra's are best for japa (muttering, whispering) or ajapa , without muttering on the lips (infers internal japa). And what of one's experiences - which ones are fruitful , which are to be dropped or adjusted?

So, the sound vibrating is one part of other considerations that would be addressed.

...well begun is half done, say the wise.

praṇām

words
time - sandhyā - the junction (sandhyā) time

[Ramakrishna]

The Bhagavad Gita reminds us that Krishna is both external and internal to all of His creation. One may be guided by the Lord Guru within. The mind and senses look outwards but there are also diamonds and jewels within.



That is an excellent point. Having an external guru is not necessary at all, but we are all guided by our internal guru, God.

[NayaSurya]

The posts above are very good to get you on your way and beyond. If you have trouble keeping focused and not making it simply a chore there is something that I have practiced for several years which helps temendously.

Every day I pray for a very long time, but often get distracted by my overactive thinking. How it was finally cured was to meditate on Siva's feet. This probably sounds very silly but it really works. For several months I meditate on the big toe and think about what it looks like.

Pretty soon the mala has been rounded many times. I have been meditating on the sole of the feet now for about 2 months as I don't feel ready for the top.:P

Now as I am meditating on foot I do realize that whatever else comes into my mind is a piece of Siva's manifested creation and is infact Siva. But I am trying to devote the time specifically to the blissful Siva and not on the bits scattered upon the earth. Meditating on Siva's feet is very calming.:p

[sacredsound]

NayaSurya,
I too have found it very calming to meditate on the forms of God. I remember reading something by Swami Sivananda about meditating on Shiva, where he said to (in your mind's eye), go over every little detail of his form, starting from his feet on up, while repeating "Om Namah Shivaya." Great way to focus.

[sambya]

Every day I pray for a very long time, but often get distracted by my overactive thinking. How it was finally cured was to meditate on Siva's feet. This probably sounds very silly but it really works. For several months I meditate on the big toe and think about what it looks like.

Meditating on Siva's feet is very calming.:p

that's a recomended way of meditation . not something silly . ramakrishna said to meditate on the lotus feet of your ishta if you are unable to visualize the whole body right at the begining . and to prevent the mind from getting distracted he said to think that you are tied to that feet with a string of silk . why silk? so that it wouldnt hurt on lord's lotus feet .

[NayaSurya]

Please forgive ingnorance. I will read about this teacher tonight once my duties here are done.

[Onkara]

That is an excellent point. Having an external guru is not necessary at all, but we are all guided by our internal guru, God.

Thank you for the positive feedback Ramakrishna. Just a small point, I do think a guru is beneficial (necessary), but the desire to find one can waste the energy which could be being used more constructively. I also feel that the positive opposite of desire is acceptance of our situation and remembering the Lord dwells in the heart of all people (inner guru).

[smaranam]

Now, I'm sure that the initiation would help one to make progress a lot quicker, but it never really resonated with me that the mantra will have no effect at all.

Namaste SacredSound

BhagavAn resides in our heart as SuperSoul, ParamAtmA. He knows us more than we know ourselves.

The mantra will have effect when it was meant to have effect.
You will feel the presence of The Lord - since you have posted under Vaishnav forum, Krshna / Shriman Narayana - when you were meant to feel His presence.


Surely, God understands if one is unable to find an external guru?:(

Absolutely. Especially if we turn to Him and not simply keep looking outward, externally. In fact, He alone knows right up front if we are going to find a Guru soon, or in this life, or not. So, He accordingly either becomes our Guru or makes arrangements so that we meet the Guru.

"So what should I do now ?"

Find Him in your heart, beside you , everywhere around and talk to Him.

----------

Did someone mention Lotus Feet ?

My favorite are in the profile picture although its tiny you can't see it. Here are some more

Krshna's Lotus Feet (http://www.krishnaonline.org/wp-content/uploads/2006/12/img_0779.JPG)

Transcendental beauty (http://www.prabhupadaconnect.com/Madan_Mohan_Lotus_Feet_Vancouver.jpg)

What do Soles of Krshna's Feet Look Like ? (http://nitaaiveda.com/SG_Translated_and_Main_Scriptures/K_Feet_small.jpg)

Radha's Lotus Feet (http://www.gauranitai.nl/wp-content/uploads/2009/08/radhas-lotus-feet.gif)

Shri Shri Radha-Gopinath, Mumbai (http://www.deitydarshan.com/ddfullpic.php?thumbdate=14apr2010&deity=rg)

http://www.lalive.us/

[smaranam]

.....
Kirtans....

Kirtans at Radha-Gopinath - RadioChowpatty (http://radio.iskcondesiretree.info/ISKCONChowpattyBhajans.html)
+01 VaishNav Bhajans

*****+02 Hare Krshna Kirtans by Temple Devotees *****

+03 Damodarashtakam
.... more

[NayaSurya]

The first picture is so beautiful.

Tonight have been reading on RamaKrishna and it makes me so happy that the thing that seemed as just a silly ignorant girl trying to aid her concentration was, in fact, very good practice of RamaKrishna who was such a wonderful learned being.

Gives me much wonderful reading and I thank you.<3

[Eastern Mind]

NayaSurya,
I too have found it very calming to meditate on the forms of God. I remember reading something by Swami Sivananda about meditating on Shiva, where he said to (in your mind's eye), go over every little detail of his form, starting from his feet on up, while repeating "Om Namah Shivaya." Great way to focus.

Vannakkam sacredsound:

Which form of Siva do you mean? Dakshinamurthy, Nataraja, Lingam, or pehaps another such as Ardhinarisvara?

For me personally, meditation comes most naturally when it is Lingam.

Aum Namasivaya

[sambya]

Please forgive ingnorance. I will read about this teacher tonight once my duties here are done.


hey , nayasurya , its nothing about ignorance . it only shows hoe you have dicovered something very important . without external aid all by yourself !!

and moreover we all learn many things from each other till our last day .:)

[sacredsound]

@ Eastern Mind:
Here is the meditation Swami Sivananda recommended: "Move the mind on the various parts of the Murti, the picture or idol of Lord Siva, and meditate. Sit upon your usual Asana. Repeat His name and think of His attributes like bliss, radiance, love, etc., gazing at His picture all the while. Then enthrone Him in the lotus of your heart or between your eyebrows amidst a blazing light. Now mentally think of His lotus-feet, offering your devout salutations. Take the mind to the elephant-skin worn round the waist, then to the necklace of Rudraksha beads, adorning His chest, and the beautiful blue hue of His throat (Nilakantha), serene countenance, radiating the majestic aura of profound meditations, the indrawn half-closed meditative eyes, the mysterious third eye in the centre of the forehead. Next take the mind up to the matted locks, the cool crescent moon, and the sacred Ganga sprouting from the Jata. Rotate your mind on the trident (Trisula) in one hand, and then, the Damaru, in the other. Run your mind over the whole form till you complete all the details. Then fix your mind either on the face or upon the starting point (feet). Repeat the entire process again and again, as many times as you can. By constant practice, you will ultimately be established in meditation and have communion with Siva." http://www.dlshq.org/download/lordsiva.htm#_VPID_79 Great website. I suppose you could do this with any deity.

[smaranam]

The first picture is so beautiful.

Tonight have been reading on RamaKrishna and it makes me so happy that the thing that seemed as just a silly ignorant girl trying to aid her concentration was, in fact, very good practice of RamaKrishna who was such a wonderful learned being.

Gives me much wonderful reading and I thank you.<3

Namaste

Beautiful aren't they ? My profile picture is Lotus Feet of Dwarakadheesh - the first time i saw a few yrs ago - it i grabbed it - these are mine.
Little did i know at the time that the AchAryas gave so much importance to starting at the Lotus Feet. While taking Darshan , one is taught not to look at BhagavAn straight in the face - start with Lotus Feet up. (This rule goes out of the window when i see Him though) These Lotus Feet (in my profile) have generated inspirations and poems. Ganga that flows from them is an ocean-flood of the spiritual seeker's path whose source and sink is the very Lotus Feet. They walk into my heart everyday.


This , about your meditation on the Lotus Feet and toe, is a classic example of SuperSoul - antaryAmi guiding from inside - like instinct and intuition. Well , there are times when He explicitly comes and guides, that's different. Then we would just say "BhagavAn told me this". OR we talk to Him and He answers - that's explicit. But instinct is implicit.

It is said that instinct is SuperSoul i.e. given by Supersoul - paramAtmA from within. Many times we take a step or decision on a hunch , not really knowing why i.e. we cannot come up with a rationalized explanation "How did i know ? " . THAT is paramAtmA guiding from within the heart.

praNAm