Looking to align/interface/match concepts

[MarkMe]

Namaste,
Perhaps not unlike others here, I have in the process of experiencing personal development also forged my own terms and concepts. I have some Hindu background, going back 20 years, but I have also walked a very independent path (since). Now, I am wondering if I can fix or align or interface the terms and concepts that I have developed with existing Hindu concepts and terms.

I recall the "five sheaths", and I would like to draw a picture, and I would like to understand things in ways that work in my mind as well. I wrote about my latest experiences, and how I am trying to understand it.

I found a place to put text and pictures...
http://bwsgames.org/mm-philosophy.html

Altogether, about 10 paragraphs.

The terms and concepts I am most curious about - ego-awareness, soul and the self picture as put.

Thank you for welcoming me here. And thank you for your time.

If you go to the home page at the same site, there are some games there, too. I love them, now, and I have played them for many years.
http://bwsgames.org

Namaste,
Mark Me

[NayaSurya]

Hello, I read your thoughts several times when I took breaks from writing and I do understand the concepts you are trying to explain for yourself.

Congrats on you finding the formula which settles your spirit<3

It reminded me of something I study a lot lately.

http://www.saivism.net/articles/tattvas.asp

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Markme:

Welcome to these forums.

Aum Namasivaya

[MarkMe]

Naya Surya, thank you for the link to the nice site. I will pour over that the next chance I get.

Eastern Mind, Thank you for the welcome.

And I wanted to say, this morning I updated the text at the link. It's been quite a state change, with plenty of adjustments. (Basically the same thing).

Namaste,
Mark Me

[MarkMe]

Namaste,
It's been quite a few years since I've seen these, but now I remember having looked at them before. The first 5 are the ones I would be most interested in.

I am curious, amongst the atma tattvas there are both maya and manas, and I am wondering exactly how that breaks down between the two?

[MarkMe]

Here's a pic. I still haven't got the part about individuation and A-self such that A-Self (individual soul, buddhi) transcends I (individuation), however; individuation only precedes (in scale) individuated A and E. Like I have two individuations....

http://bwsgames.org/aie-system.gif

The first is the internalized I-self, and the second is the total I, inclusive of soul, knowledge/thought, and body - total individual. Is this like saying atma precedes buddhi?

A-Self: My Awareness
I-Self: Active knowing
E-Self: Body (and I believe "Knowledge")

[Ekanta]

As stated in the article linked by NaraSurya:
"The Vedanta school of philosophy accepts these 24 tattvas with some improvements. They also recognize a supreme or divine tattva which is absent in the Samkhya"

24 Tattvas according to vedānta:

5 jñānendriyas (organs of knowledge)
5 karmendriyas (organs of action)
5 prāṇas (vital airs)
5 tanmātras (subtle elements/sensations)
antaḥkaraṇa "(inner instrument"/ 4 functions of mind) i.e. ahaṃkāra (ego), buddhi (intellect), citta (memory), manas (mind). [note that citta in vedanta is memory, but in yoga/samkya it equals the totality of antaḥkaraṇa]

puruṣa (cit) is added as 25th when it enters (identifies) these 24 (these 24 are modifications of prakṛti) and jīva (individual) emerges as a combo of conscousness (cit) & prakṛti (note that by prakṛti is meant not only gross matter but also anything objective, like mental functions and sensations etc.). So the whole creation is a combination of puruṣa/prakṛti (Śiva/Śakti).

[I hope I got that right]

Another nice link is "vedanta for beginners" by Sivananda:
http://www.dlshq.org/download/vedbegin.htm

I also wonder from what śruti Saivism derives their 36 tattvas? Perhaps anyone know? Or is it more of sectarian doctrines? (no offence I just want to know)

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~


namast&#233;


As stated in the article linked by NaraSurya:
"The Vedanta school of philosophy accepts these 24 tattvas with some improvements. They also recognize a supreme or divine tattva which is absent in the Samkhya"

24 Tattvas according to vedānta:

5 j&#241;ānendriyas (organs of knowledge)
5 karmendriyas (organs of action)
5 prāṇas (vital airs)
5 tanmātras (subtle elements/sensations)
antaḥkaraṇa "(inner instrument"/ 4 functions of mind) i.e. ahaṃkāra (ego), buddhi (intellect), citta (memory), manas (mind). [note that citta in vedanta is memory, but in yoga/samkya it equals the totality of antaḥkaraṇa]

puruṣa (cit) is added as 25th when it enters (identifies) these 24 (these 24 are modifications of prakṛti) and jīva (individual) emerges as a combo of conscousness (cit) & prakṛti (note that by prakṛti is meant not only gross matter but also anything objective, like mental functions and sensations etc.). So the whole creation is a combination of puruṣa/prakṛti (Śiva/Śakti). [I hope I got that right]


I wrote the following in another string:

When we talk of tattva-s or these 36 elements ( again the kaśmir śaivism POV), we have them in groups:

pa&#241;ca mahābhūta-s - 5 (pa&#241;ca) great (mahā) elements (bhūta-s)
pa&#241;ca tanmātra-s - 5 (pa&#241;ca) merely that , only a trifle, ~subtle~ (tanmātra-s) elements
pa&#241;ca j&#241;ānendriya-s - 5 (pa&#241;ca) organs of sense, of cognition (j&#241;āna + indriya-s)
pa&#241;ca karmendriya-s - 5 (pa&#241;ca) organs of action (karma + indriya-s)
antaḥkaraṇa-s - internal organs (antaḥ + karaṇa-s); this is mind, intellect and ego.
ṣaṭ ka&#241;cuka-s - 6 (ṣaṭ = ṣad = 6) coverings,husk, shell (ka&#241;cuka-s)
śuddha tattva-s - pure (śuddha) elements (tattva-s)A very in-depth review can be made on this matter... yet the knowledge is not casual and requires sone thinking and study. It also belongs in the Uttara folder. If there is interest we can reivew it there.

praṇām

[Ekanta]

Alright Yajvan... Im not into Shaivism and Vaishnaism etc so I cant reply. But would it be possible to request (if you like) an exposition of suddha-sattva and malina-sattva? Perhaps its connected to these tattvas? Perhaps in another thread?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté Ekanta


Alright Yajvan... Im not into Shaivism and Vaishnaism etc so I cant reply. But would it be possible to request (if you like) an exposition of suddha-sattva and malina-sattva? Perhaps its connected to these tattvas? Perhaps in another thread?

Perhaps you starting the thread would be good... here is a suggestion on some of the content you may wish to offer in whole or in part:


definitions i.e. śuddha = pure, simple, complete, etc.
what you know of the topic
what ideas you have on the matter
how these may ( or may not) connect to the tattva-s you are familuar with
what questions you are thinking ofthings like that will help start and garner the conversation by inviting others to offer their undertandings and knowledge.

Sound reasonable?

praṇām

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;


This was part of the conversation above:


As stated in the article linked by NaraSurya:
"The Vedanta school of philosophy accepts these 24 tattvas with some improvements. They also recognize a supreme or divine tattva which is absent in the Samkhya"

Please consider the following ... there are a few views on this matter.

We are informed that kapila-ji wrote the sāṁkhya pravacana sūtras and hence known as the sāṁkhyapravacana. Some call this nirtīśvara-sāṁkhya or without a God (nirtīśvara), a Creator.

Now its very closely connected cousin in views and philosophy ( darśana ) is the Yoga sūtras. it is sometimes referred to as seśvara sāṁkhya , that is with a God (seśvara).

So we have one with (seśvara&#185;) and one without (nirtīśvara&#185;) God .

In sāṁkhya the cause of creation is prakṛiti, some call it pradhāṅa&#185;, with its 24 tattva-s or building blocks for this Universe. Yet there is still a Supreme , it is puruṣa, but not a personal God.
This puruṣa may be thought of as the SELF. Its essence , its-SELF is pure conciousness . This is not a quality, IT is pure consciousness.
If I were talking at this moment as an advaita vedāntin i'd say this puruṣa is also blissful consciousness (ānandasvarūpa), yet this is not the position of the sāṁkhya POV.

Now to also offer one other view, kaśmir śaivism see's this puruṣa differently, and we can attend to this at another time ; yet there is the recognition of God (seśvara).

And here's one more idea just to insure that the sāṁkhya system is a bit different ( not wrong, just different) then the vedānta view or kaśmir śaivism view ( and there are many others) is this: Sāṁkhya does not see one SELF but multiple Selfs. They say there cannot be one SELF and give multiple reasons for this.
We can reivew this if one wishes. I thought it may be worthy to start a new string on this here http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5680 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5680) if some of our HDF members wish to participate.

praṇām

words

nirtīśvara - godless , atheistic
seśvara - with god
pradhāṅa - 'the Originator' , primary germ , original source of the visible or material universe i.e. prakṛti

[MarkMe]

Here's another picture. This time, I got the "I" into between "A" and "E", and "A" winds up being the outermost, wrapped around "I", wrapped around "E". Previously, it was "I" outside of "A".

http://bwsgames.org/aie-system2.gif

Translating: "A" as Purusha and Buddhi, "I" as Aham, "E" as Prakriti.
Intel: Evolved, highest lower intelligence

[MarkMe]

Namaste is a word,
I just re-did the page with all new text for and as "unified individual". I'm not done here. I am very excited about more. There is always more.
I have re-used the same link:
http://bwsgames.org/mm-philosophy.html

This is the most peaceful thing, but it has its caveats. The people all around just warped into "defcon 5" - like some kind of epic disaster.

Nature is more beautiful than I could could have ever imagined, and people seem remarkable preoccupied. I feel like I never asked for this. Everyone seems totally busy. There's nothing but running going on. Running to... Running from... Busy, busy, busy! Working very hard. Working overtime!

Working night and day. Working through rest, and working through play. A ball of rules, if you may. And I don't have any.

Have a peace sandwich.

Eat Me!

- Mark :-)