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ScottMalaysia
29 April 2010, 07:26 AM
My mother told me last Friday that she saw a group of protesters outside the New Zealand Parliament Buildings. They were protesting about the Japanese whaling operation and want the Prime Minister to do something to stop it (although he doesn't seem to be doing anything).

I thought it very ironic that these people who are campaigning against whaling would most likely have no problem going home and having a steak or lamb chops or chicken for dinner. It's inconsistent to protest against the killing of one animal yet engage in the killing of others.

What do you think would happen if a large number of Hindus got together to protest about the beef industry killing cows? Do you think people would even take them seriously?

Eastern Mind
29 April 2010, 07:51 AM
Vannakkam Scott:

If it was Greenpeace, they also heavily promote vegetarianism, and are very committed to the cause so I sincerely doubt there is much irony.

http://www.greenpeace.org/usa/getinvolved/green-guide/green-lifestyle/go-vegetarian

Aum Namasivaya

Ashvati
29 April 2010, 10:21 AM
If it helps put anything in a better perspective, I think those whales might also be endangered.

Sadly, if hindus were to protest the beef industry, we wouldn't be taken seriously because overall the west really doesn't seem to take us seriously. It also would depend on our demands I think. Like if we were asking for more humane treatment of the cattle, that would be taken more seriously than trying to take down the industry entirely for example. As much as I would love to see the cows treated more humanely, I think such a campaign would make the west less likely to take us seriously. Its a matter of which result you like better I suppose.

Eastern Mind
29 April 2010, 11:55 AM
Vannakkam:

I believe the beef industry sees that the end is in sight. The proof is in the money they are pouring into advertising. This is a new thing. Twenty years ago they didn't have to advertise. They're just trying to fend off the trend to a healthier diet. But it won't work, unless they drastically get the government to cut education funding, because as soon as you get educated, the more likely you are to see through the stupidity of beef ... in many ways.

The sad thing is that just as tobacco and banned herbicide industries before them, they will move the marketing to countries (like India and China) where their marketing money goes further.

Maybe another 50 years...

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
01 May 2010, 08:47 PM
If it was Greenpeace, they also heavily promote vegetarianism, and are very committed to the cause so I sincerely doubt there is much irony.

The protest was by the Green Party of New Zealand (http://www.greens.org.nz), but they were addressed by the Greenpeace Executive Director before marching to Parliament. The Green Party does not actively promote vegetarianism but does promote healthy and organic food.



I believe the beef industry sees that the end is in sight. The proof is in the money they are pouring into advertising. This is a new thing. Twenty years ago they didn't have to advertise. They're just trying to fend off the trend to a healthier diet. But it won't work, unless they drastically get the government to cut education funding, because as soon as you get educated, the more likely you are to see through the stupidity of beef ... in many ways.

While many people are making the change to a healthy diet, there are still many out there who eat all kinds of meat, including beef. I seriously doubt my father would ever stop eating beef and other kinds of meat unless his doctor told him to for serious health reasons. My mother considers herself a healthy eater but stil eats meat on occasion. So it's not true for many people that eating healthy = vegetarianism. They believe that they can eat healthy while still eating a certain amount of meat.


The sad thing is that just as tobacco and banned herbicide industries before them, they will move the marketing to countries (like India and China) where their marketing money goes further.

I don't think that the beef industry would have much success in most of India (except the Muslism areas and possibly Kerala, where there are a large amount of Christians).


Like if we were asking for more humane treatment of the cattle, that would be taken more seriously than trying to take down the industry entirely for example.

I see your point, but the cattle shouldn't be in that situation in the first place. I've heard that many vegetarians become vegetarians because they dislike factory farming. This basic premise is flawed.

Imagine someone who said "I'm totally opposed to child prostitution in Asia. Those child prostitutes are kept in horrible, squalid conditions and are forced to work long hours for no pay." While the opposition to child prostitution is correct, the premise on which the people are opposed is faulty. They are basically saying that if child prostitutes are kept in nice conditions, work a reasonable amount of hours and get paid, then child prostitution is all right. They are missing the point: child prostitution is WRONG because sex with children is wrong and disgusting.

So the people who are vegetarian because of factory farming are basically saying "If the chickens, cows, pigs and lambs are kept on a nice farm with lots of room to move about, then it's all right to kill them and eat them". They don't get the point that killing animals itself is WRONG.

Ashvati
01 May 2010, 09:47 PM
I agree that ideally meat would not be consumed- which is ironic from me since I haven't taken the steps to being a full vegetarian yet- but I'm just trying to be more realistic than to say that we'de be able to get the meat industry shut down completely.

Ramakrishna
10 May 2010, 11:24 PM
It is inconsistent and even hypocritical to protest the killing of one animal and yet engage in the killing of others, but I guess that is still better than nothing. That is still better than not protesting the killing of any animals. But I do agree that it is hypocritical and flawed.

I know a lady who doesn't eat meat because she feels bad for the animals, but she still eats fish. I have tried talking to her and explaining the hypocrisy and how fish are animals just like the cows and chickens that she feels sorry for are. But she just says that she loves sushi :rolleyes:. But again, I guess just the fact that she is opposed to the killing of cows, chickens, turkeys, etc. is better than being opposed to nothing.

Sahasranama
11 May 2010, 06:26 AM
What do you think would happen if a large number of Hindus got together to protest about the beef industry killing cows? Do you think people would even take them seriously?

This is not likely to happen in the west. It has to start in India. Cow slaughter has been banned in Gujarat, that's one step forward. If you can't expect India to ban cow slaughter completely, there's nothing we can expect from western countries.

In the west many people are "into" yoga. I talked to someone who was so much "into" yoga that she was following a teacher program. Next thing she does after yoga is, having a steak dinner! Hypocracy at it's finest.

People in the west can understand why it's bad to kill whales, pandas and tigers. That's a good thing in my opinion. If that's their level of understanding, let them protest against the killing of these endagered species. Some of them will also understand it's bad to kill cows, pigs, sheep, chickens and fish.

TatTvamAsi
03 June 2010, 03:00 PM
Yes, the whaling protest is indeed ironic.

Btw, ALL states in India except Kerala and West Bengal have banned cow slaughter. It happens illegally in most states however due to the rat-bastard muslims/christians.




This is not likely to happen in the west. It has to start in India. Cow slaughter has been banned in Gujarat, that's one step forward. If you can't expect India to ban cow slaughter completely, there's nothing we can expect from western countries.

In the west many people are "into" yoga. I talked to someone who was so much "into" yoga that she was following a teacher program. Next thing she does after yoga is, having a steak dinner! Hypocracy at it's finest.

People in the west can understand why it's bad to kill whales, pandas and tigers. That's a good thing in my opinion. If that's their level of understanding, let them protest against the killing of these endagered species. Some of them will also understand it's bad to kill cows, pigs, sheep, chickens and fish.

Ramakrishna
03 June 2010, 09:43 PM
Yes, the whaling protest is indeed ironic.

Btw, ALL states in India except Kerala and West Bengal have banned cow slaughter. It happens illegally in most states however due to the rat-bastard muslims/christians.

Very true. Also, a lot of cows are being smuggled over the border into Bangladesh, where they are then slaughtered for the Muslims to eat beef :po:

bp789
04 June 2010, 11:08 AM
Yes, the whaling protest is indeed ironic.

Btw, ALL states in India except Kerala and West Bengal have banned cow slaughter. It happens illegally in most states however due to the rat-bastard muslims/christians.

Does that mean cow slaughter is illegal in Jammu and Kashmir?

Ramakrishna
04 June 2010, 07:32 PM
Does that mean cow slaughter is illegal in Jammu and Kashmir?

Namaste bp789,

Yes, cow slaughter is illegal in Jammu and Kashmir. I'm sure it still goes on illegally, though.

Hare Krishna

Eastern Mind
04 June 2010, 09:14 PM
Vannakkam:

I read somewhere that a lot of the 'beef' illegally sold in India is actually buffalo.

Wondering if this is true.

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
04 June 2010, 11:05 PM
Would most Hindus in India who keep cows for milk bury them after they die naturally? Or would they send them to an illegal slaughterhouse when they're no longer able to produce milk?

isavasya
04 June 2010, 11:29 PM
Would most Hindus in India who keep cows for milk bury them after they die naturally? Or would they send them to an illegal slaughterhouse when they're no longer able to produce milk?


Namaste scott,

Almost all hindus bury the cow with a great respect, now a days it has become tradition of having milk from diary farm, but in rural india or small towns many people still do keep 1 cow in their house as it is a old custom, that serving cow is like serving devta. I have myself seen death of many cows in my house, we bury them in the nearby river (it's dry river) with great respect. Even people who keep cows for selling milk have a great respect for cows, they dont send it to slaughterhouse even if cows stop giving milk. I can't say anything about big diary farms.

BryonMorrigan
06 June 2010, 10:41 AM
Anyone else here watch "Whale Wars?"

It follows a group of anti-whaling activists who harass the Japanese whaling fleet. And yes, the kitchen on the boat is completely vegan. ;)

While their tactics don't necessarily stop the Japanese from conducting their killing of endangered whales, they have made a lot more people aware of what's going on...and that's good at least.

On this new season there's a guy who claims he's going to shoot tainted arrows from a speedboat into the whale carcasses to make the meat inedible. We'll have to see how that works out.

(Episodes available here for free: http://animal.discovery.com/videos/whale-wars/)

TatTvamAsi
09 June 2010, 12:49 AM
Does that mean cow slaughter is illegal in Jammu and Kashmir?

What do you think?

As I stated, ALL states except Kerala & West Bengal, both COMMUNIST I should add, have banned cow slaughter.

Filth (christians/muslims) continue to defy Indian law and do it anyway.

TatTvamAsi
09 June 2010, 12:53 AM
Anyone else here watch "Whale Wars?"



I've seen parts of a few episodes. It is quite hilarious. It is typical in the fact that it brings the hypocrisy to the forefront. Just by having a 'vegan' canteen on board doesn't mean anything. There are FAR more cows, chickens, goats, etc. being killed for meat than whales.

Also, I am surprised Japan doesn't use live ammunition to ward off these people. They just spray them with water! LOL...Oh, and they use that super-high frequency "horn" to disorient them as well.

BryonMorrigan
09 June 2010, 11:37 AM
I've seen parts of a few episodes. It is quite hilarious. It is typical in the fact that it brings the hypocrisy to the forefront. Just by having a 'vegan' canteen on board doesn't mean anything. There are FAR more cows, chickens, goats, etc. being killed for meat than whales.

I don't disagree...but the whales are in danger of extinction, and this show brings to light the way the Japanese gov't has been using the cover of "research" in order to slaughter them for food. My point about the vegan canteen was that I believe all of the members of Sea Shepherd are vegetarian or vegan, and at least they're trying not to be hypocrites.

I mean, this kind of activism has to begin with animals like whales and seals. You really think they'd be able to get away with trying to stop the American beef industry? They'd be arrested on episode 1 and spend the next few years in prison. At least here, they can do something that raises awareness...and is a little bit more than just putting a bumper-sticker on their car or holding up a sign....or sitting around smoking pot wishing they could do something important.


Also, I am surprised Japan doesn't use live ammunition to ward off these people. They just spray them with water! LOL...Oh, and they use that super-high frequency "horn" to disorient them as well.

Well, they did shoot Paul Watson in the chest in season 1, but it hit his bulletproof vest. Of course they deny it though... They'd probably do a lot more if the cameras weren't rolling.

TatTvamAsi
11 June 2010, 02:36 AM
I don't disagree...but the whales are in danger of extinction, and this show brings to light the way the Japanese gov't has been using the cover of "research" in order to slaughter them for food. My point about the vegan canteen was that I believe all of the members of Sea Shepherd are vegetarian or vegan, and at least they're trying not to be hypocrites.

That's true. They have to start somewhere.



I mean, this kind of activism has to begin with animals like whales and seals. You really think they'd be able to get away with trying to stop the American beef industry? They'd be arrested on episode 1 and spend the next few years in prison. At least here, they can do something that raises awareness...and is a little bit more than just putting a bumper-sticker on their car or holding up a sign....or sitting around smoking pot wishing they could do something important.

LOL! That's definitely true! I remember reading a while back about how Oprah said something about becoming vegetarian or avoiding beef and she was sued by the beef industry!




Well, they did shoot Paul Watson in the chest in season 1, but it hit his bulletproof vest. Of course they deny it though... They'd probably do a lot more if the cameras weren't rolling.

Wow! Didn't know they actually shot someone. Hmm.. that's pretty darn serious too.

A korean friend of mine from high-school ate dogs.. not sure if he still does....but I still remember the cold stares he got from EVERYONE on campus. funniest thing ever.. and nobody there except myself was vegetarian. hahaha..

Eastern Mind
11 June 2010, 06:46 AM
Vannakkam:

Beef industry is incredibly powerful, but percentage of vegetarians is still on the rise. They will eventually lose as the older die-hards die off.

But the dog story brings out memories. besides the same reaction every year when we studied China, I once had an immigrant student from Thailand. He was Tony from Thailand. He'd had an 'independent' childhood, and had been adopted by a Canadian citizen who had married a Thai woman, Tony's mother. But Tony ate snakes. He and his kid buddies would go our after school (not sure if he even went to school, the English wasn't great) and hunt them down with long forked sticks. Big ones too. His ability to tell another snake story won him instant popularity in my class, especially amongst the squeamish girls. Good thing too, because often immigrant (FOB) kids have a tough time socially.

Aum Namasivaya