Durga

[C.K.]

Namaste;
I was a long time Buddhist & during a grad seminar on buddhism found out everything I really loved came from Hinduism, which made me pretty happy as I had issues with 'no soul' and other things.

Anyway, I'm just starting as a devotee of Durga & any info, to her mantras, pujas, what a normal bhakta would do would be really helpful & appreciated. Any special scholarly books I'd love to read.

My uni Hindu Society meets once a week for puja, but now term is ending & I don't have a car to get to the local temples. So I'd really appreciate the help.

[Sahasranama]

Namaste,

I can definitely recommend Swami Satyananda video lectures:
http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal/?q=taxonomy_menu/58/157

There are many ways to worship Durga. The chanting of the story of Durga, the Devi Mahatmyam, is very popular. There are also many stotras (hymns). These are sometimes very lengthy and difficult to chant. A very basic stotra for Durga Devi is this one: it's the essence of the Devi Mahatmyam:http://sanskritdocuments.org/doc_1_index.html You can find the audio on raaga.com

The lalita sahasranama stotras is a very beautiful summations of the thousand names of the godess. This is a really beautiful rendition from the Bangalore sisters, if you cannot chant it, listening will also give all benefits: http://www.kannadaaudio.com/Songs/Devotional/home/SriLalithaSahasranamaStothram-BangaloreSisters.php

More links of interest:
http://www.shaktisadhana.org/
http://www.ambahouse.org/

[sambya]

namaskar C.K. ,

well, the rule of thumb in hinduism is that their are no fixed rules for anything !! rituals , mantras and everything else vaires with place , region , individual etc . so long as you do not have your deity installed through prana-pratishtha , you are free to conduct your worship in a manner you please . this may include offering of food , flowers , incense , light a lamp or candle , chanting some basic mantras etc .

devi mahatmyam is a very important and basic book for all shaktas . you can give it a mental read to know the leelas of the mother . perhaps a reading into the life of ramakrishna paramahamsa would be a source of immense inspiration , since he was also a matri-bhakta .

google the word ' durga mantra ' or 'durga stotra' to get access to hundreds of mantras ......dont recite mantras that have bija-mantras in them . bija-mantras like hrim , krim etc are extremely powerfull and are not chanted without a guru . you can chant stavas or stotras which are like praises to mother.

the sharat and vasant navaratris are special times to mother . at these times the vibrations are high and its really conducive to her sadhana . ashtami and navami tithi of every month and amavasya are also specially important for devi . saturday and tuesday are considered as asupicious days for devi in bengal -- the shakta land .

maa bless us always .............

[sambya]

by sahasranama----There are many ways to worship Durga. The chanting of the story of Durga, the Devi Mahatmyam, is very popular.

hi . chanting of devi mahatmyam aloud is not allowed unless you have the gayatri initiation(that is , a brahmin) or have been elevated to the status of kaulabhishikta or purnabhishikta in kaula tantra .

however mere reading of the text doesnt cause any harm . reading out certain stavas from the text(like narayani stuti or brahmkritah devi-stava) also doesnt harm .

but if someone desires to chant aloud the entire devi mahatmyam then he need to qualify the critereas . a minimum of pancha-upachaara puja to goddess chandi ought to performed before the chanting can start too .

[Sahasranama]

I have read about these things before, but I don't know where that comes from. I have initiation in Gayatri, but not in Sri Vidya. What about other stotras like the lalitha sahasranama and the lalitha trishati?

[smaranam]

Namaste

There is Durga Kavach stotra from Mahabharat. I do not know if it is chanted unless someone asks us to. Best - go to your Temple priest and ask about it.

It brings peace and confidence.

[sambya]

I have read about these things before, but I don't know where that comes from. I have initiation in Gayatri, but not in Sri Vidya. What about other stotras like the lalitha sahasranama and the lalitha trishati?
hello .

well , if you have a gayatri intiation and have a upavita you can easily go forward with chanting of durga saptashati . well the instructions are strictly followed in the northern and eastern belts of india . durga saptashati is called by the another common name 'sri sri chandi' and its procedural reading is called chandi path . this can only be done by brahmins . i think the original instructions are codified in the tantras in imitation of the vedic texts . permission to read vedic texts are also given to brahmins only . shudras and women are not even allowed to chant pranava !!!

im more aqquainted with the kalikula sampradaya of tantra prevalent in north and east . lalitha shasranama and others are primarily of south which comes under influence of srikula . therefore i cannot give you a proper answer on that thing . laitha sahasranamas are not popular here in north .

[Sahasranama]

Thank you for the information. Personally, I believe that any sincere devotee should be able to learn the Vedas. I do respect the tradition of which the Vedas were delivered to us. But we are living in different circumstances, time period than our ancestors.

The late scholar Sri Krishnamacharya (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Krishnamacharya), the great yoga teacher, for example was born in a very orthodox culture. He wouldn't even allow women to practice yogasana. The king requested him to teach a western female friend of him though. In the beginning he was not happy about this and tried to discourage her. She wouldn't be discouraged and then she became one of his best students who later spread his teachings to the west.

Krishnamacharya's son deshikacharya has written in his book "Vedic Chant Companion" that we have to follow the dharma of aapatta kaala:"If we don't teach those who are coming to learn, but insist that only certain people who should learn, but who don't, this precious teaching will die."

[C.K.]

the advice & links are wonderful. This is just what I need as well as the warnings as I took Devi Mahatmyam out from the library and I didn't realize it was a tantric text that needs initiation.

I received preliminary initiations for esoteric tantra in my Japanese buddhist sect, so I understand the prohibitions.
I am going to make just a simple altar so would this general mantra be okay to chant: Om Sri Dugayay namah.

I have read about the Southern Sri Vidya tradition, which focuses on Sri and Lalita TripuraSundari but not about the North which concerns Kali. Can you tell me from the outside what this tradition is like?
many thanks for all these great suggestions & practical help!
C.K.

[Sahasranama]

There is also a distinction between using texts in specific prescribed rituals and studying or reading the text. You should ever feel any hesitation to do the latter even without initiation.

Nama mantras like AUM Durgayai namah are great for everyone.

when I was a child I used to chant the Durga Chalisa amongst other chalisas, very easy to learn, but still very beautiful:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwPdADAHWtE
http://www.durga-puja.org/durga-chalisa.html

[sambya]

hi C.K. ,

you can always give devi mahatmyam a thorough reading . that cannot cause you any harm . its only the loud chanting of the entire book thats forbidden . you can even chant out the selected sotras in devi's parise loudly . like the narayani stuti . there no harm if you chant only that part loud . having said that i must also add that i also believe that no harm can ever come from spiritual matters . not follwoing any injuctions cannot condemn you to the darkest regions of hell or something like that . mother is daya-mayi and always benevolent . she is simply unable to cause us any harm . whenever we suffer its for our own karma .

well, the kalikula sampradaya has its base in eastern india and northern india . here the adhisthatri devi is kali . the tantra has two wings here the left handed form and the right handed form .
the left handed tantra are considered as a corrupted version and not particularly suited to this age as its involves use of wine meat , fish and sex etc . the right handed tantra is the usual tantra free from all such things .the basics however remains the same between kalikula and srikula .

kalikula generaly worships the more ugra forms of devi --kali chamunda durga etc . while in srikula stress is on the benevolent or calmer forms of devi --- lakshmi , srividya , saraswati etc . though kali and chamunda are worshipped in kali kula , they are not coinsidered as terrifying . they are also thought of as benevolent and motherly just like the srikula deities .

[C.K.]

Sahasranama, that were great links, as you say Durga Chalisa is easy enough, so I started chanting along. It's very helpful to someone starting out.

I understand the difference between studying a text vs using it for ritual, so no problem then to study with commentary Devi Mahatmyam. So I'm glad I can chant a verse or two. Sambya I'd agree with you. I think people can misuse powerful tantric practices, wanting money, power etc..Devi wouldn't harm her children.

I know Kalikula sampradya flourishes in Bengal but where else? I didn't know there were shaktas in the north I thought the Kasmiri Shaivism died out, but I'd be happy to be wrong. Previously I'd been put off by the ugra form, until I participated in Acala worship - a wrathful Buddhist deity.

I know see these forms as strong, helping a person attain wisdom, overcome all difficulties, so maybe this is why I am attracted to this sampradya as opposed to Srikula. So as you say then the tantric methods would be ritual texts such as Devi Mahatmyam (in Srikula there is Khadgamala) and then the yantra with associated mudras and mantras for those initiated.
All this information is really wonderful.

[sambya]

well, kashmir was once an important seat of tantra , and tantric buddhism . however all that have dies out now . vaishno devi is an important shakta pilgrimage in north , but i think it would be incorrect to call it a seat of tantra . kalikula has its influence all over north , but the strongest is at bengal and assam . kamakhya in assam and tarapith in bengal are important centers . manikarnika ghat in varanasi is also an important site . however here the sadhkas are more dispersed within the vast city and hence hard to locate . then there is the chhinnamasta temple at rajarappa .

however the problem that many would face is finding a true tantric guru who is just a seeker and not an occult practitioner . ofcourse such sadhaks does exist , but many times they chose to remain hidden from public eyes . the rest are astrologers and bluffing occult practitioners .

ugra forms are fierce but very compassionate . there's a verse in devi mahatmyam itself about chamunda ( probably the most terrifying of all goddesses in this world ever) where it is described how she offers the nectar of her breast to her devotee like a moving mother !

[C.K.]

Interestingly there is a temple devoted to Srikula in upstate New York
http://www.esrividya.org/home.aspx their guru lives in Andhra Pradesh, but it's always difficult with gurus. I am really wary. As you say one wants to avoid the fake occult practitioners etc...

I daresay the best thing to do is devote oneself to bhaki and pray for a fine teacher. And study. It's sad to see lineages die out like in Kashmir, thanks for discussing the various peethams in the North and places.

I appreciate all your information Sambya, and Chamunda is mind-bogglingly ugra so I'll be reading and looking for that verse! In the meantime I have some booklets that I bought coming from I think Ramakrishna Math on Devi Puja and Mahatmyam.

[Stephen]

>...dont recite mantras that have bija-mantras in them . bija-mantras like hrim , krim etc are extremely powerfull and are not chanted without a guru .


Krim is pretty powerful, but I have never had any trouble with Hrim. I have seen people replace Krim with Klim in Kali mantras for the uninitiated. Of course, I am only referring to mula mantras.

[sambya]

>...dont recite mantras that have bija-mantras in them . bija-mantras like hrim , krim etc are extremely powerfull and are not chanted without a guru .


Krim is pretty powerful, but I have never had any trouble with Hrim. I have seen people replace Krim with Klim in Kali mantras for the uninitiated. Of course, I am only referring to mula mantras.


as far as my knowledge goes replacing krim with klim would be wrong . coz krim is krodh bija signifying anger , terrifying aspect etc . while klim bija is kaam bija signifying adi kaama or the primordial acttraction(not the sexual acttraction of material world) . krim is used for kali wheras klim is for krishna .

pranam............. :)

[MahaHrada]

>...dont recite mantras that have bija-mantras in them . bija-mantras like hrim , krim etc are extremely powerfull and are not chanted without a guru .


Krim is pretty powerful, but I have never had any trouble with Hrim. I have seen people replace Krim with Klim in Kali mantras for the uninitiated. Of course, I am only referring to mula mantras.

Mantras that contain Bijas are not suitable for Bhakti marga, because they are a part of Mantra marga and involve a lot of preparatory actions to become useful. Japa of these mantras must also be accompanied by other acts because japa is only one part of Mantra sadhana. All details have to be learnt from an experienced guide.

Japa used in Mantra marga is of dhwani or nada pradhana, where the use of sound and its effect is utilised and of main importance, and the kundalini shakti in the form of internal sound (nada) is activated and also the internal prana shakti is stirred and influenced, kundalini jagaran is an important part of mantra marga. How to prepare oneself for that awakening or where to lead the shakti once activated, with the help of the mantra and the Bijas, this can also only be learned with proper guidance.

Mantras used for nama smarana in Bhakti marga are bhava pradhana, based on the attitude, therefore devotion is of main importance. It is good to chant them without errors, but there is no harm done if there is a break of rules. There are different approaches in Bhakti marga, Mantra marga and Jnana marga towards the use of Mantra.
Each path uses their own mantras rules and methods. It is not correct that tantric mantras that need procedures done according to mantra shastra can be safely used as part of Nama smarana, by a bhakta. A bhakta should use Nama Mantras.



I have seen people replace Krim with Klim in Kali mantras for the uninitiated. Of course, I am only referring to mula mantras.

Mantras should not be tampered with. This is the first time i heard of such a proposal, what kind of "expert" is recommending this?

[sambya]

Interestingly there is a temple devoted to Srikula in upstate New York
http://www.esrividya.org/home.aspx their guru lives in Andhra Pradesh, but it's always difficult with gurus. I am really wary. As you say one wants to avoid the fake occult practitioners etc...

I daresay the best thing to do is devote oneself to bhaki and pray for a fine teacher. And study. It's sad to see lineages die out like in Kashmir, thanks for discussing the various peethams in the North and places.

I appreciate all your information Sambya, and Chamunda is mind-bogglingly ugra so I'll be reading and looking for that verse! In the meantime I have some booklets that I bought coming from I think Ramakrishna Math on Devi Puja and Mahatmyam.



hi C.K.

rmakrishna math booklets on devi and shaktism are good as they lay stress on bhakti marga-- the easiest way to lord . the devi mahatmyam of RKM is also very nice with an elaborate preface . lives of ramprasad sen and ramakrishna paramahamsa would be in inspiring read too .

[Stephen]

I have seen Klim as a seed mantra (bija) for Kama, Krishna, and Kali. Krim is more widely known as Ma Kali's bija, so when I saw various people also ascribing Klim for Kali's mula mantra, I assumed it was a replacement for the more fierce Krim. Anyways, I have seen Klim used in Kali mantras in Thomas Ashley-Farrand's books, and I also read about Klim in a tribe (tribe.net) called "Practical Tantra". Here is the link to the thread I am referring to with the very discussion, but first one of the comments, "KLIM = K (karshanam / to pull or attract) + L (layam / merging into void) + I (indriam / to sense) + M (mokhanam-madhuryam / cleansing and honeyed bliss).
The frequency of centripetal force that takes to the Origin through cleansing senses and reaching the honeyed bliss.

Application:

1. Entering the Origin
2. Kali (Beyand Time), Krishna (The Centripetal attraction to Void / suction / Black hole )
3. amaroli-vajroli-sahajoli
4. Samadhi
5. Love"

http://tribes.tribe.net/practicaltantra/thread/9d383a58-35fb-4603-abd3-edae55a9a955 I still approve the use of bijas when doing japa, one just has to take care of the one he/she uses.

[MahaHrada]

....so when I saw various people also ascribing Klim for Kali's mula mantra, I assumed it was a replacement for the more fierce Krim.

This is a wrong assumption, there are many forms of Kali all with their different mantras, the Madana Bija amongst others, is very often used in shakteya Mantras not only in Kali Mantras.


I still approve the use of bijas when doing japa, one just has to take care of the one he/she uses.

It is not advisable to use tantric mantras containing Bijas without knowlege of the correct way of preparation of these mantras and knowledge of the correct procedures for Japa and without the grace of a Guru parampara or devata.

Like i said in Mantra marga the sound as such is utilised and therefore correct pronounciation and complex procedures must be learned and followed for the mantra to become awakened and benefical. Otherwise it will remain useless or can even become counter productive.

A bhakta is best advised to practice nama smarana without using tantric mantras extrapolated from mantra marga, doing mantra sadhana or upasana is time consuming and a very complex subject which can only be learned with personal guidance.

[Ashvati]

there's a verse in devi mahatmyam itself about chamunda ( probably the most terrifying of all goddesses in this world ever)

I'm intrigued by this Chamunda now and would like to learn more.

[sambya]

I'm intrigued by this Chamunda now and would like to learn more.

well , chamunda is perhaps the most terrifying deity on earth , ever . the only other other deity which is equally ugra would be chhinnamasta , but even then visually chamunda remains the most terrifying .

she is described as having bloodshot eyes and blood complexion and blood red teeths . she is emaciated---asti-charma-saar . thin , emaciated limbs and body with the bones showing from outside . the kind of one would see in a famine victims . her face is terrifying , and with karala-vadana or fierce mouthed . she wears a garland of skulls and a tiger skin . her sounds make the heavens vibrate and fill all the corners of the earth . in devi mahatmyam she was born out of the anger of devi kaushiki to kill the demons chanda and munda . she rushed through the battlefield and ate up chariots , elephants and asuras whole ! after killing chanda and munda she was gifted with the name chamunda by devi kaushiki .

actually the line between kali and chamunda is very thin . many scholars veiw the chamunda of the devi mahatmyam to be kali . but while kali is frequently worshipped , chamunda worship is rarer .

such ugra forms often do not suit householder lifestyles . much like chinnamasta .

[C.K.]

Hi Sambya;
Ramprasad Sen, that's great suggestion. I knew the Vaishnava Mirabai's poetry and Andal but not his,
Stephen stick to bhakti, you should never engage in tantric practices without a reputable master. I had initiations by an accredited sensei (I'd checked with his head temple in Japan) in all the mantras and mudras that I practiced.
Now that I am starting here, I am very careful and mindful of the good advice I receive. Believe me you can go very far with bhakti; it is a great practice.

[Stephen]

MahaHrada said,
>Mantras that contain Bijas are not suitable for Bhakti marga, because they are a part of Mantra marga and involve a lot of preparatory actions to become useful. Japa of these mantras must also be accompanied by other acts because japa is only one part of Mantra sadhana. All details have to be learnt from an experienced guide.

>Japa used in Mantra marga is of dhwani or nada pradhana, where the use of sound and its effect is utilised and of main importance, and the kundalini shakti in the form of internal sound (nada) is activated and also the internal prana shakti is stirred and influenced, kundalini jagaran is an important part of mantra marga. How to prepare oneself for that awakening or where to lead the shakti once activated, with the help of the mantra and the Bijas, this can also only be learned with proper guidance


It is funny you say all that, because whenever I ask one of the local priests what a deity's mantra is, they simply tell it to me, with the bija there and all. Also, for correct pronounciation, with meter, there are CDs with the practioner chanting it so the correct sounds will become aquainted with. Without the "grace of a guru" it may take longer to derive benefits, but I don't believe they will be nonexistent. Anyways, my experience is other than what you describe. I do agree that it is better to have a guru.

[MahaHrada]

MahaHrada said,
>Mantras that contain Bijas are not suitable for Bhakti marga, because they are a part of Mantra marga and involve a lot of preparatory actions to become useful. Japa of these mantras must also be accompanied by other acts because japa is only one part of Mantra sadhana. All details have to be learnt from an experienced guide.

>Japa used in Mantra marga is of dhwani or nada pradhana, where the use of sound and its effect is utilised and of main importance, and the kundalini shakti in the form of internal sound (nada) is activated and also the internal prana shakti is stirred and influenced, kundalini jagaran is an important part of mantra marga. How to prepare oneself for that awakening or where to lead the shakti once activated, with the help of the mantra and the Bijas, this can also only be learned with proper guidance


It is funny you say all that, because whenever I ask one of the local priests what a deity's mantra is, they simply tell it to me, with the bija there and all. Also, for correct pronounciation, with meter, there are CDs with the practioner chanting it so the correct sounds will become aquainted with. Without the "grace of a guru" it may take longer to derive benefits, but I don't believe they will be nonexistent. Anyways, my experience is other than what you describe. I do agree that it is better to have a guru.

What i wrote is what is taught and also laid down and written in the shastras and what is backed up by the word of knowledgeable Gurus.

Mantras taken up only from books will not fructify. We need a connection to a Guru Parampara through diksha, success depends on our effort to correctly apply the rules and instructions we received according to our qualifications.Whereas everybody is qualified for Namasmarana and devotion but only few for tantric sadhana.

These are well known rules, kept by all spiritual traditions in Asia: Hindus, Buddhists, Jains, even Sikhs, it is rather your ideas that are uncommon or "funny" as you choose to express it, not what i wrote.

You are free to follow your own viewpoint, but you should know that what you do is not advised or sanctioned by tantra shastra nor by any valid tradition (Sampradaya).

Judging the adhikaribheda, the proper distinctions based on one´s qualifications for a certain path or practise is a vital step before beginning any practice, more so if it involves tantric mantras and vidyas. Though the correct bhava or attitude is important in any path, other qualifications for choosing a practice or deity have also to be taken into account.

If you think you know all you need about mantra tantra and yantra and have the required qualifications to begin mantra sadhana on your own and you think you can go ahead, what can i say? It is your choice, but as i said i recommend to advance your knowledge about the different paths before taking up mantra japa.

[sambya]

hi stephen . wel, not many priests are learned these days !! so its not uncommon that they give the wrong advice . as regards the cd and cassettes of mantra chanting i would say that they are destroying our hindu culture . for stavas and stotras it is okay . but who give them the right to chant bijas and gayatri ?

do you know how i got gayatri in childhood ? the guru and my head was covered with a long cloth to prevent others from seeing the lip movements , and the guru whispered the mantra clearly in my ears !!! this was gayatri .

and today some idiots like anuradha padwal have destroyed its very essence !!