A Proposal to All HDF members

[Hiwaunis]

Pranam All,
As I look at the news around the world I am deeply sadden. Air pollution, earth pollution and destruction, water pollution. Natural disasters and massive death. Wars are everywhere.

We are taught that we all came from one. The sky is Father and the Earth is Mother.

I would like to propose to the members of this forum a day and time to chant the Gayatri Mantra 108 times.

I've always known the meaning of the Gayatri, but lately I have felt the need to make chanting it about everyone instead of just myself. Not only for the lives on earth but also for Pita AdiDev and Mata AdiShakti. I feel that it is a horrible thing to hurt ones' own parents the way we have been doing so far.

There is no doubt in my mind that most of us here on HDF were brought here together for a specific reason. We are not average souls. Just from reading the post it is obvious that we are above average. That being so we have a duty to humanity.

By chanting the Gayatri consistantly we are not only lifting ourselves up but also the whole world. One translation of the last line of the Gayatri is: Guide US, enlighten US.

I know by chanting the Gayatri regularly and at the same time we as individuals and the HDF will be lifted up to a new level. Please join me on this journey.

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

Yajvanji, you being a knowledgable senior member, I humbly request your assistance.

[ScottMalaysia]

I read that by chanting the Gayatri mantra once, all the sins you have committed that day are forgiven.

[Hiwaunis]

I read that by chanting the Gayatri mantra once, all the sins you have committed that day are forgiven.

Pranam,
Yes, I read that also. The third line (or second if you don't count the preamble) of the Gayatri is: (translation) Sin destroying God we meditate on you. Last line": (translation) guide us, enlighten us.

It really doesn't matter who you believe God is The Gayatri is a sincere request to Tat Savitur (life giver) to remove our sins, enlighten us and guide us.

Please make a committment to join us in chanting this mantra for world welfare.

Namaste,

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Every man is a creature of the age in which he lives, and few are able to raise themselves above the ideas of the time. -Voltaire, philosopher

This may be true, yet in our sanātana dharma we are blessed with gāyatrī which occurs in the ṛg veda (3.62.10) . This hymn allows us to raise themselves (ourselves) above the ideas of the time.
Not only the individual , but our society overall. For me, I will be happy to participate in this svādhyāya¹ . Perhaps others may wish to participate:

tat saviturvarenyam |
bhargo devasya dhīmahi |
dhiyo yo nah pracodayāt ||

Much more can be said, yet I think this reference post may be of value: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=7693&postcount=2 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=7693&postcount=2)


praṇām

words

svādhyāya स्वाध्याय- reciting or repeating or rehearsing to one's self; repetition or recitation of the veda in a low voice ( or even ajapa - easily within one's awareness, internally to one's self).

[NayaSurya]

I will join you. This mantra is done for me a few times a week already, but rarely do a full 108. I will start tonight. <3

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakam: I too will join in an informal way. I'll chant it on the way to temple, or while at temple when I'm working. Usually I do the 'gananaam tva ganapatigum hava mahe.. chant, but a switch up will be good.

The other day I was rototilling the temple garden and belting out a bhajan of "Aum Namasivaya" , one of several variations. I though that no one would hear me over the engine of the rototiller, but then when a devotee came into the parking lot, he came over because he said he thought he heard a radio playing. So I guess I have to tone it down. Maybe the neighbours will think odd things about 'that guy'.. as if they don't already.

About how long in time would 108 be?

Aum Namasivaya

[Sahasranama]

This is a good idea. Anyone who has done Upanayana sanskaar should do gayatri japa with Sandhyavandana trice, twice or at least once in the morning.

[NayaSurya]

Vannakam: I too will join in an informal way. I'll chant it on the way to temple, or while at temple when I'm working. Usually I do the 'gananaam tva ganapatigum hava mahe.. chant, but a switch up will be good.

The other day I was rototilling the temple garden and belting out a bhajan of "Aum Namasivaya" , one of several variations. I though that no one would hear me over the engine of the rototiller, but then when a devotee came into the parking lot, he came over because he said he thought he heard a radio playing. So I guess I have to tone it down. Maybe the neighbours will think odd things about 'that guy'.. as if they don't already.

About how long in time would 108 be?

Aum Namasivaya


Very good question which I now have the answer. I never have timed it before because I usually sing it. Since it was quiet in the house(kids in school) I decided to do it while it was peaceful. I just finished as you posted. I started directly after I post. I started out singing it the way Deva Premal sings it. This is much slower than direct counting and I quickly lost count so I decided to chant it directly. It took me 30 minutes. To chant directly without singing it.

Oh, and I should add, that if I swallow, get distracted with things like hiccup or sneeze I do several extra properly so it may add a few minutes.

[Sahasranama]

It depends on how fast you chant. I always repeat the mantra in my mind, instead of chanting out loud. If I pay close attention to the udgita, the repetition is much fluent and faster. If I don't I hold the letters much longer in my mind. I have not measured this with a watch though.

[NayaSurya]

lol this conversation made me wonder how fast I could do it, I never timed and also I never do quickly. I can do 8 in a minute using my computer to time. I never do this fast though because once I read..I think it was Gurudeva who say it...he said chant slowly, don't be rushed. So if I even think about rushing or even the slightest distraction I will make myself do two more times and not count them. (this can make the time extremely long for japa. This goes for all my japa.) It's a little tough love from the Guru even though I do not have one yet:P

[Sahasranama]

It is said in the smritis that rishis have obtained a long life by doing long Sandhya (Gayatri) worship. I don't think it means doing everything very slowly though. You can elongate your practice by adding more malas. But either doing the japa very fast in a hurried manner or too slow (manda) is not optimal. Ideally there would be a certain rythm and tempo.

[NayaSurya]

I do feel this rhythm you speak of, especially in the morning during my routine.

Thank you for explaining this, it is very very helpful<3

[satay]

namaskar,
I will join in and do this on sat. this week in one sitting.

[smaranam]

Pranam All,
As I look at the news around the world I am deeply sadden. Air pollution, earth pollution and destruction......

I would like to propose to the members of this forum a day and time to chant the Gayatri Mantra 108 times......

There is no doubt in my mind that most of us here on HDF were brought here together for a specific reason. We are not average souls. Just from reading the post it is obvious that we are above average. That being so we have a duty to humanity.

By chanting the Gayatri consistantly we are not only lifting ourselves up but also the whole world. One translation of the last line of the Gayatri is: Guide US, enlighten US.

I know by chanting the Gayatri regularly and at the same time we as individuals and the HDF will be lifted up to a new level. Please join me on this journey.

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

Yajvanji, you being a knowledgable senior member, I humbly request your assistance.


NArAyaNA !
GovindA !

praNAm HiwaunisJi

I am too dumbfound to read your proposal about Gayatri Japa. Something's going on...

Yesterday morning, BalKRshNa amazed me. I was carrying Him (8 months old). He pointed in the other direction , <"let's go there">. We went thru' a big crowd of people and suddenly into a very quiet place that was a hilltop. A flat hill with a sharp edge, and the sun right in front, much bigger than usual morning sun.

We stopped. I understood it was supposed to be our picnic spot for the day so spreading a cloth we sat down. The baby kept looking at the Sun. I said "SuryaNarAyaN"
He said "SulyanAlAyan mmmm " and folded His palms in prayer closed His eyes <"like this">.
As if He wasn't cute enough as it is. So He wanted me to meditate on the Sun at this spot. I couldn't understand why when He was in my lap, but of course i took it very seriously.

~~~~ Less than 24 hours later you start this thread asking HDF members to do GAyatri Japa ~~~~ Morning SandhyA ? Yet, the connection did not register in the mind of this dumb jiva.

This morning He wanted to have a picnic again at the same spot, and was least interested in breakfast. Sat on my lap like a yogi to meditate. I was afraid to close my eyes lest He starts crawling towards the edge, it was deep......

In the past KRshNa has asked me to do DhyAna...

----------*------------~------------*-------------~-----------*---------

Just one question : Women do not chant GAyatri as per Vedic tradition for valid reasons which i accept. Yet, women today do, which is OK especially when their Guru asks them to. I guess i can join you in silent Japa - probably that's what most people do.
The Divine Baby taught me silent meditation, so i shall do just that.

Finding one time worldwide on a Sunday may not be hard. If not we may have to split into 2 groups. Western Hemisphere, and Eastern. What is day for one set of yogis is night for the other :)

Chhoti Chhoti Gaiyyan chhote chhote gwAl
chhotoso mero Madana GopAl ~

Jai Shri KRshNa !

[amith vikram]

Namaste,
Everyone should not chant gayatri mantra.One needs to have upadesham from the guru to do that.for those who chant mantra,they should do so without any intentions. "karmanyevaadhikaraste maa phaleshu kadachana...."-krishna.

[smaranam]

Namaste,
Everyone should not chant gayatri mantra.One needs to have upadesham from the guru to do that.for those who chant mantra,they should do so without any intentions. "karmanyevaadhikaraste maa phaleshu kadachana...."-krishna.

Namaste Amit

I thought, that at least women don't chant GAyatri (unless Guru bends that rule) , but again had AnurAdha PaudwAl not stepped forward to sing it in her sweet voice, would we have been so fortunate ? Looks like her Guru had a good vision about this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDnamSM3Z3s

In any case, the gist of HiwaunisJi's proposal is very auspicious, and a common time for prayer is a divine idea we should go forward with.

-----------------------------------

This is the prayer i learnt from my mother that has stayed with me for years as a part of the evening prayer (Sandhya kaal) :

Sarvetra sukhina: santu
sarve santu nirAmaya:
sarve bhadrAni pashyantu:
mA kashchit dukhha mapnuyaat

Om shanti:, shanti:, shanti:

May All [beings] be happy and peaceful,
May all be touched by the auspicious
let there be no miseries or ailments
Let there be peace

-----

In the morning, sometimes "all" people on the globe (in saffron, yellow, white, blue(from church) , and multi-color) bow down in unision to the Beloved ParamAtmA , there are aarati lamps being waved, sometimes He is on a Hill with a lush green meadow and people at the foothills .... (Govardhan and vicinity)

[satay]

namaste,


Namaste,
Everyone should not chant gayatri mantra.One needs to have upadesham from the guru to do that.for those who chant mantra,they should do so without any intentions. "karmanyevaadhikaraste maa phaleshu kadachana...."-krishna.

Is that true?

I ask because from grade 5 to 8 I went to an arya samaz school in punjab. Every morning the whole school would gather in the compound and chant gayatri along with other things. The school had kids from all hindu varnas, girls, sikhs, and even muslims. I know atleast one teacher was from actual shudra jati and several teachers sikhs, one was muslim. They were all chanting gayatri and encouraging us to sing louder and louder! :)

Why shouldn't it be chanted by everyone? Any particular reason?

[Ashvati]

All I know is Manu said for them not to, but personally that doesn't bother me for women or sudras to sing it.

[NayaSurya]

It would be wonderful to know the scripture which instructs this...as I have never found it in all my wanderings.

I find it hard to understand how our goal is to understand that this gross physical shell is nothing more than distraction from our true purpose to realize God...if such things are placed upon specific vessels. It would be as if there were rules to say only whites could say certain things, or only persons with brown eyes could read something. Because I am not a woman anymore than anyone of you is the gender you rest inside this lifetime. It's all just fodder to stumble over.

The eternal Guru Siva MahaYogi helped me find this mantra when I was pregnant with my 7th and 8th child.

Since I have been chanting this mantra for seven years with only blessings, I feel in my heart that it is a blessed activity.

http://books.google.com/books?id=8zrxlH1Tl24C&pg=PA36#v=onepage&q&f=false

Perhaps...if you feel like a woman, identify with the gender so wholely. Then perhaps you should obey whatever laws restrict such activity.

As for the mantra making a female more masculine, my photo is on my profile...this shell is female to the utmost...but then again I was born very strong in the knowledge that this outter shell is not me. It is a beautiful illusion...of a much more beautiful creature, broken off from God himself to serve.

Om Namah Sivaya

[amith vikram]

namaste smaranamji and satayji and all,
Gayatri mantra is not a tool you keep in a toolkit and use it to repair things.My grandpa who instructed gayatri mantra told me about the restrictions.Women should not chant it,no matter how sweet their voice is.However i dont want to be naive towards anyone,but i just said what i know.before i make any more statements,i will get back to you with reasons and exactly where its mentioned.
there are many mudras and other pranayamas that one has to do before chanting.one should have yagnopaveetha also.also there are a few other procedures.

[smaranam]

Namaste Amitji,

I for one, am not opposing or questioning what you are saying, in fact , saying that that was my understanding too. If someone else tells otherwise , that's fine too.

My post above is not well written , the thing about Anuradha Paudwal was just musing : her Guru must have asked her to sing it. That's all.

In any case, BAl GopAl wants me to meditate quietly on SulyanAlAyan :)

[amith vikram]

Namaste Amitji,

I for one, am not opposing or questioning what you are saying, in fact , saying that that was my understanding too. If someone else tells otherwise , that's fine too.

My post above is not well written , the thing about Anuradha Paudwal was just musing : her Guru must have asked her to sing it. That's all.

In any case, BAl GopAl wants me to meditate quietly on SulyanAlAyan :)
ya u have mentioned that in ur previous post,i noticed.
and about women singing or chanting,my mother have a few friends who do chant it,but my mother also tells the same thing,that it should not be chanted by women.

[NayaSurya]

Well then we have some things we do agree about, and some we do not. I respect your upbringing, but it will not change this Mother's attitude.

I agree with you very much that mantra is not a tool in a tool kit. I would never pray for the world in such a way. There is no need for a tool, the world is as it is for a reason.

This world is full of disgusting filthy things, and happy wonderful things.

In all my life I could never hope to fix our prooving ground. It would be like taking the bumps from a BMX course...or the sand traps from a golf course. Of course it would be easier, but then we would all be having handicapp like Tiger Woods (Pre sex scandal).

I do not pray for money, my own health. There's a reason for this but too long for this forum:P

I am not saying your parents are wrong. For you they are right. It's good to see a child who remembers and follows their parents.

Parents teach what they know, you accept the teaching and you are good child to do so.

But I will tell you that my parents told me that only by the blood of jesus christ could I be going to heaven...and here I am 38 years later...not ever going to believe this.

It's okay to learn that other ways are out there. Thank goodness I was given other angles of this world so that I could find the way home.

This Mother...teaches her daughter to sing it. Not for the world, not for herself...but simply to worship God.

Swami Dayananda Saraswati, the founder of the Arya Samaj was where I first read the Gayatri Mantra. His teachings say that no soul should be denied the truth of it.

[ScottMalaysia]

Namaste,
Everyone should not chant gayatri mantra.One needs to have upadesham from the guru to do that.for those who chant mantra,they should do so without any intentions. "karmanyevaadhikaraste maa phaleshu kadachana...."-krishna.

This is typical ISKCON propaganda. They believe that you can't chant the Gayatri Mantra unless you've been 'given' it by a guru during the second (Brahmanical) initiation. Even if you know it and chant it, they say, it will not bring any effect.

However, from what I've seen people post on here, I would say that is NOT the case for non-Gaudiya Hindus.

[Hiwaunis]

Vannakam: I too will join in an informal way. I'll chant it on the way to temple, or while at temple when I'm working. Usually I do the 'gananaam tva ganapatigum hava mahe.. chant, but a switch up will be good.

The other day I was rototilling the temple garden and belting out a bhajan of "Aum Namasivaya" , one of several variations. I though that no one would hear me over the engine of the rototiller, but then when a devotee came into the parking lot, he came over because he said he thought he heard a radio playing. So I guess I have to tone it down. Maybe the neighbours will think odd things about 'that guy'.. as if they don't already.

About how long in time would 108 be?

Aum Namasivaya

Pranam EM and All,
I chant the Gayatri Mantra along with Anuradha Paudwal. The CD is 55 minutes long. I can chant over 216 within that time. When I chant by myself it takes about 30 minutes to complete 108.

If you chant it along with the cd there are several musical pauses, you can get an extra 2 in between or you can use that time to do a little pranayama.

You will start to see a positive change in your life. However, remember the Gayatri is also a prayer to God for all of our enlightenment.

It has been suggested to chant during sunrise, noon and sunset. This is what I do. Please feel free to join me.
Namaste,

[Hiwaunis]

ya u have mentioned that in ur previous post,i noticed.
and about women singing or chanting,my mother have a few friends who do chant it,but my mother also tells the same thing,that it should not be chanted by women.

Pranam,
I've done a little research on this topic of women not chanting the Gayatri. Like NayaSurya said there is a possibility that we may loose some of our womanhood, ie the vibrations created by chanting may have an effect on our hormones. Well I just chanted over 1200 today! I have been chanting the Gayatri consistantly for over 2 years at least 2 hours a day.

This is how it has changed me. I now have retrospection. I have no fear of not making enough money, meaning I accept whatever my karma brings. The Gayatri Mantra creates many virtues in the chanter prosperity being one of them. I consider praying for humanity and self-realization as my real job. I am able to be detached from the world while still surviving in it. I have received more spiritual knowledge and esoteric understanding in the last 2 years than in my entire life. Most of the 24 virtues received from chanting the Gayatri I do now have.

As for my womenhood I STILL LOVE PINK! My bedroom is pink as well as my bathroom. I still fix my hair in female fashion. I don't have any facial hairs.
However, I don't wear cutsey dresses. Of course I was never fond of dresses anyway because I have ugly legs.

Now if this sonic vibrations info is really true I will definately keep everyone up to date if anything happens to me. I will say for me chanting anything longer than 2 hours lights a fire in my manipuri area and the Gayatri is no exception. I have a hard time getting to sleep at night so. Mainly, because I am full of energy and know way to burn it off. I can ony sleep for about 5 hours.

I can see why chanting the Gayatri Mantra is ok for females because now days we are just as arrogant as any man. Therefore we have already lost a large portion of our womanhood.http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

Reaching out to our loving Mother/Father for the sake of all souls can only bring upliftment for All souls. Remember Shivay WANTS to reach her Shiv.

Namaste

[atanu]

Namaste,
Everyone should not chant gayatri mantra.One needs to have upadesham from the guru to do that.for those who chant mantra,they should do so without any intentions. "karmanyevaadhikaraste maa phaleshu kadachana...."-krishna.


Namaste Amith

I agree. If everyone was supposed to do only Gayatri then there would not have been other mantras and other paths at all. Mantra japa is a very very personal thing -- it is one's nature actually. It is the signature tune that built up the mind-body.

Just as an order passed by atanu will not be implemented by Indian Judiciary, any random mantra taken up does not work any better than a random song soothes. An effective order can only be passed by an empowered authority.

Women get more benefit by just feeding a meal to the hungry -- that is the highest service of all. It is sad that in rajasic world this simple truth is taken as an insult. What a man does, he does due to pressure of ego. And the modern world forces women also to join this league.

But there is no injunction that a woman will be punished for chanting Gayatri. And if a Guru initiates a woman there is nothing against that. I have not seen any prohibition of this sort.

But for all of us, the goal -- through everything we do -- mantra, meditation, puja, bhakti, study etc etc., are all to impel and teach us to do work without thinking "What is there for me?". I think, most women are naturally beyond this (but for the americanised value of "I-Me-Mine").

I hope I made some sense?

Om Namah Shivaya

[Sahasranama]

This lecture is in Hindi. He makes very interesting points about women and gayatri.

http://gayatrisadhana.com/?cat=27

I learned the gayatri mantra from my mother before I did upanayana sanskaar.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;

If one wished to understand gāyatrī a bit more, you can take a look at

gāyatrī-rahasa upaniṣad - the significance of 24 ( 24 powers, 24 blessings, 24 devatā, etc)
bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad - gāyatrī brāhmaṇa - the 4 feet of gāyatrī ( one of my favorites)
gāyatrī-upaniṣad - sun and savitri ( what is set in motion) + the 3 feet of gāyatrītat saviturvarenyam | 1st foot
bhargo devasya dhīmahi | 2nd foot
dhiyo yo nah pracodayāt || 3rd foot

Now, where is this 4th foot bṛhadaraṇyaka upaniṣad speaks of? Turīya &#185;.

praṇām

words and references

savitri = savīman = setting in motion , instigation , direction , guidance
More on turīya can be found here at these HDF posts: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312) , http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822)

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;




tat saviturvarenyam | 1st foot
bhargo devasya dhīmahi | 2nd foot
dhiyo yo nah pracodayāt || 3rd foot


words
savitri = savīman = setting in motion , instigation , direction , guidance

Lets look at savitṛ , defined as a stimulator , rouser , vivifier. We can see the simularites i.e. to set in motion. What is set in motion? All life.
This savitṛ is of a divine nature and vivifying power of the sun ; sūrya some say is more the concrete conception of the sun, yet the most prominent of planets as all of our earth is just a different form of sūrya's energy.

Savitṛ is considered tvaṣṭṛ. And who is this? The creator of living beings, also known as the maker of divine implements/tools. At times tvaṣṭṛ is associated with or recognized as dhātṛ, prajāpati and pūṣan.

This tvaṣṭṛ is associated with this word taṣṭṛ defined as a carpenter , builder of chariots ; the builder of beings applies nicely.

With gāyatrī you are in fine company.

praṇām

[Ramakrishna]

Namaste,

I would definitely participate in this. If we all could agree on one day and time that would be great and we could do it.

I chant the Gayatri Mantra and the Hare Krishna Mantra everyday, but I have never chanted the Gayatri Mantra 108 times. I have chanted the Hare Krishna Mantra 108 times several times, but usually I just chant the Gayatri Mantra about 15-20 times several times throughout the day.

Again, I think this is an excellent idea and I would love to take part in this. This Saturday or Sunday would be great for me. Please, let me know what is a good day for everybody and then we can find a time.

[Hiwaunis]

Namaste,

I would definitely participate in this. If we all could agree on one day and time that would be great and we could do it.

I chant the Gayatri Mantra and the Hare Krishna Mantra everyday, but I have never chanted the Gayatri Mantra 108 times. I have chanted the Hare Krishna Mantra 108 times several times, but usually I just chant the Gayatri Mantra about 15-20 times several times throughout the day.

Again, I think this is an excellent idea and I would love to take part in this. This Saturday or Sunday would be great for me. Please, let me know what is a good day for everybody and then we can find a time.

Pranam Ramakrishna,
Thanks for joining us. I think most are chanting on Saturday or Sunday. I chant everyday. When I am feeling very spiritual then it's somewhere around 3 to 5 hours additional twice a week. But if you want to join me for sure I will chant at noon and sunset everyday.

It only takes about 30 to 35 minutes to chant 108. Eventually, it will become natural to chant for longer periods of time.

Namaste,

[Hiwaunis]

namaste smaranamji and satayji and all,
Gayatri mantra is not a tool you keep in a toolkit and use it to repair things.My grandpa who instructed gayatri mantra told me about the restrictions.Women should not chant it,no matter how sweet their voice is.However i dont want to be naive towards anyone,but i just said what i know.before i make any more statements,i will get back to you with reasons and exactly where its mentioned.
there are many mudras and other pranayamas that one has to do before chanting.one should have yagnopaveetha also.also there are a few other procedures.

Pranam,
Actually, the Gayatri mantra is a tool. However, it should be used! It is a prayer to our innermost self ie the soul for guidance and enlightment. Now that I think about aren't all prayers, mantras tools? Don't we say them for a purpose?

Namaste,

[amith vikram]

namaste hiwaunis,
No.any mantra is not a tool.One who chants the mantra,or sing a bhajan for attaining something,even self-realisation,is not the correct way.One who has understood that he/her is that self and not anything else,what is there to attain for him/her.Then that person,sings the bhajan or chant the mantra naturally,with full ananda,like how iron filings get attracted to a magnet.

i was reading this soundarya lahiri,where its mentioned that,a person who understands that bhavani is not differnt from the self,that person even if you give all the wealth in the world,wont touch it.

[Hiwaunis]

namaste hiwaunis,
No.any mantra is not a tool.One who chants the mantra,or sing a bhajan for attaining something,even self-realisation,is not the correct way.One who has understood that he/her is that self and not anything else,what is there to attain for him/her.Then that person,sings the bhajan or chant the mantra naturally,with full ananda,like how iron filings get attracted to a magnet.

i was reading this soundarya lahiri,where its mentioned that,a person who understands that bhavani is not differnt from the self,that person even if you give all the wealth in the world,wont touch it.

Pranam,
I agree with the most of your post. But when the words in the mantra are specifically making a request then it is a tool correct. Now I am sure that all mantras do not make a request. I am only talking about the ones that have "prochodhayat" or some other words making a request.

I agree after one is self-realized life is all bliss or so I am told. It seems that nowdays unless we receive a mantra from a Guru the only reason we chant is for some benefit because we heard or read that chanting helped so and so. If it did that for him or her maybe it will help me.

Honestly, I don't even know why I started chanting the Gayatri. I didn't have a clue as to what it meant. Oh now I remember, I thought it was just another song. Once again only those things that were meant to happen will happen.

Namaste,

[amith vikram]

This brings us back to where i started.Again we have to think upon this,which you agree,that what is there to attain for the pure self?
that is why i said it is karma.It is the karma of the adhikari,who can chant this mantra.How should karma be done?without expecting results.right?u agree?then if we say,there's prachodayat in the mantra where we expect our intellect to be clear,then that's contradicting the previous stand of 'self is all'.
The only way it should be done is by 'this is my karma' bhava,and not any other.hope u get my point.

[Hiwaunis]

This brings us back to where i started.Again we have to think upon this,which you agree,that what is there to attain for the pure self?
that is why i said it is karma.It is the karma of the adhikari,who can chant this mantra.How should karma be done?without expecting results.right?u agree?then if we say,there's prachodayat in the mantra where we expect our intellect to be clear,then that's contradicting the previous stand of 'self is all'.
The only way it should be done is by 'this is my karma' bhava,and not any other.hope u get my point.

Pranam,
Again I do agree with what you are saying, however, until one reaches the other side of the shore we have no other choice but to get into a boat. Sure I can say that I know that the self is all. I also feel the difference between the self and body during meditation. What I donot feel is an extreme constant bliss 24/7.

Like many I can talk the talk, but when it comes to walking the walk it's a different story.

What I am unclear on is your POV. Are you suggesting that these mantras are a contradiction to the absolute existance of the atman and therefore should not be chanted? Even if one is self realized and living in bliss is it wrong to request that others also get to that point? Or are you saying let only your karma be your guide?

This is a very interesting conversation. From your perspective is there any chance of one not acting according to their karma? For example if I am a demon and act badly I am just being moved by my karma. Is this your assessment? That being said it is pointless for me to pray because I will always be a demon even though I can see the consequences.

The only way it should be done is by 'this is my karma' bhava,and not any other.hope u get my point.

Actually, I don't get your point. Maybe others can assist in enlightening me.

Namaste,

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namast&#233; amith vikram


How should karma be done?without expecting results.right ?u agree?


The only way it should be done is by 'this is my karma' bhava,and not any other.hope u get my point.

I have difficulty with 'not expecting results' . If this is so, how does one move forward ?

go to work, have a family? I expect children, do I think - 'expect nothing'?
I work and at the end of the week shall I expect nothing on my pay check?
Play football - do not hit the ball in the direction of the goal post?
Eat food and prepare it - expect no end result of what the meal should be?There is a time and place to expect nothing, but for each action I do not see 'expecting nothing' as fruitful.

Is this the wisdom Kṛṣṇa (some prefer Kṛṣṇ) is offering in the Bhāgavad gītā ? A very deep look will bring out to whom this message is offered. That is why the wise have it in 18 chapters.
And this has been the part of Kṛṣṇa 's message that has confused many a seeker.


If we wish, perhaps a deep dive into this on a new string would be waranted ; we have talked about this before on HDF, perhaps a good time to reivisit this.


And , I plead guility also on not comprehendting your second idea on ' this is my karma' - I am sure their is more to it then meets the eye. Perhaps you can start with this idea first and expand the idea with examples or other conparing and contrasting ideas so we may be able to get your point.


praṇām

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namast&#233;

I wrote in the last post (number 38) :

I have difficulty with 'not expecting results' . If this is so, how does one move forward ?

go to work, have a family? I expect children, do I think - 'expect nothing'?
I work and at the end of the week shall I expect nothing on my pay check?
Play football - do not hit the ball in the direction of the goal post?
Eat food and prepare it - expect no end result of what the meal should be?There is a time and place to expect nothing, but for each action I do not see 'expecting nothing' as fruitful.

Is this the wisdom Kṛṣṇa (some prefer Kṛṣṇ) is offering in the Bhāgavad gītā ? A very deep look will bring out to whom this message is offered. That is why the wise have it in 18 chapters.
And this has been the part of Kṛṣṇa 's message that has confused many a seeker.


One reason people want to act without expecting results is to avoid the binding influence that comes with it. Kṛṣṇa-ji is quite clear on this point - He says not by abstaining from action does a man achieve non-action, nor by mere renunciation does he attain to perfection.

Non-action is the closest fit to the saṁskṛt word naiṣkarmyaṁ&#185;; it means freedom from the results of action - some say freedom the re-action, the event or binding influence that happens to the native once an action takes place.

Kṛṣṇa is saying by mere abstinence of action one only becomes idle which does not even approach the notion of naiṣkarmyam. Kṛṣṇa-ji says in the next sloka 'no one indeed can exist even for an instant without performing action, for everyone is helplessly driven by the gunas born of nature'.

What then is one to do? Once again, Kṛṣṇa-ji offers the solution to this conundrum. We know that we are helplessly part of nature driven be the 3 guna-s, so Kṛṣṇa-ji says&#185; 'be without the 3 guna-s , freed from duality… possessed of ( or established in) the SELF (ātmavān)'.
Very practical I'd say. It is from being established in the SELF (ātmavān) that Kṛṣṇa says&#185; yogasthaḥ kuru kārmaṇi - established or steadfast in yoga ( union of the ātma, the SELF) perform actions.
This to me is the cornerstone of the Bhāgavad gītā, advice for one's spiritual advancement and practical advice for anyone on this good earth. Kṛṣṇa informs Arjuna of who really is performing actions that brings this attachment, and directs Arjuna to be without the 3 guna-s.

It is from this platform that actions can be done without expecting results...Why so? It is now the Universe that works through the sādhu. It is the 3 guna's that are now the actor's and not the sādhu.

praṇām


words & references

naiṣkarmyaṁ = na+iṣ+karm+yaṁ
na = not, no
iṣ = to deliver; to cast, survey, cause to move quickly
karm = karma=karman= action, act, performance
yaṁ = ya = restraining, abandoning; also means attaning
Bhāgavad gītā Chapter 2, 45th śloka ; 48th śloka

[amith vikram]

Are you suggesting that these mantras are a contradiction to the absolute existance of the atman and therefore should not be chanted?
I am just trying to tell that,in the shastras there are a few restrictions on these mantras.pls refer geeta,where krishna says,the consequences of karma is very deep and that swadharma is the safe path to attain all goodness including mukti.that exactly was my point.And for those who can chant the mantra,if done with expectation(like what?self realisation?),then there is ahankara-'i' want realisation,give it to 'me' lord etc.,and this ahankara is ignorance and nothing else.
From your perspective is there any chance of one not acting according to their karma? For example if I am a demon and act badly I am just being moved by my karma.
i dont know about the karma of demons,but i just remember reading a bit where prajapati instructs god,man and asura their duties.so yes,asuras too have karma,laid out and there is no reason why asuras should not realise self.eg:bali.

[amith vikram]

namaste yajvanji,
thanks for your post.i really enjoyed it.
let me take an eg:we are conditioned with body and the body should be satisfied to live.we cant drop our nitya karmas by any way.we all know that.krishna says,perform actions just like any ajnani does,but dont enjoy the fruits of your actions.go to work,go to your family,do the work like how any conditioned soul should do,and in doing so shastra is the pramana for you.
but do not enjoy with positive results,nor be depressed by negative results.Always stay in that jnana nishta i.e, the self is all.one who thus knows thinks of me every second and finally attains me.so mukti or the 'phase of naishkarmya' is not something that we should wait for.
and one who performs actions like this,will do better in any field,more than anyone else.and it is also true that,he cuts down on unnecessary actions,which are driven by kama.thus one day,he will become a sanyasi,officially.

[Sahasranama]

I think this is a question of having reached an idealistic state of nishkama bhakti. It's not realistic to expect this from every seeker. Since Krishna said in the Bhagavad gita chaturvidham bhajanti mam, there are four types of people who worship me: artharthi, aarta, jijnasa and the jnani. We can't expect everyone to be a jnani, so if anyone is in another stage of bhakti, we shouldn't say, "you are doing it all wrong." They should be encouraged on their path. Well, this is what you get if all modern gurus are sannyasis and preaching towards the general public.

[saidevo]

namaste everyone.

Let us first understand that the gAyatrI mantra is a veda mantra, and must therefore be chanted with the vedic accents.

• Here is the Sanskrit text of the mantra with accents:

The ITRANS/Baraha transliteration is:
AUM
bhUr bhuvas suvaH |
tat saviturvareNyam bhargo devasya dhImahi |
dhiyo yo naH prachodayAt || AUM ||

In the transliteration text, underlined syllables denote udAttas, bold ones svaritas, and bold and italicized dIrgha svarita (details of the terms below).

Two points to note:

1. it is 'suvaH'--suvaha, after 'bhUr bhuvas'. Most texts give it as 'svaH--svaha' and chanted as such, which is wrong. The term 'suvaH' denotes 'svargaH' the heavens. The first two lines above mean that AUM is the substratum of the three worlds, bhU--earth, bhuvaH--astral, and suvaH--heavens. The 'suvaH' has nothing to do with 'svaH'--one's own Self.

2. The gAyatrI mantra starts and ends with AUM. Most texts and chantings omit the ending AUM.

• A word on the Vedic svaras:
‣ akSharas--Syllables with no marks, called udAttam, are pronounced normally.

‣ akSharas with an underscore, called anudAttam, are pronounced shorter in time (by two-thirds of a second) than the normal pronunciation for udAttam.

‣ akSharas with a single vertical bar over them, called svaritas, are pronounced longer in time (by two-thirds of a second) than the udAttam.

‣ akSharas with a double vertical bar over them, called dIrgha svaritam, are pronounced the longest--by two units of each two-thirds of a second, than for the udAttam.

• Although the Sanskrit text with svara marks looks formidable in itself, when we listen to a properly chanted audio while we read the text, we are sure to get the mantra with proper pronunciation and chanting. I have uploaded an mp3 file of the gAyatrI mantra, extracted from the sandhyA-vandanam audio CD by shrI S.Prakash Kaushik, to my account at the esnips Website. Here is the link to download it: http://www.esnips.com/web/saidevosStuff

• I have uploaded the Sanskrit text of the gAyatrI mantra with svara marks, and the explanation of the svara symbols here:
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31402821/gAyatrI-acc
http://www.scribd.com/doc/31403434

For all the sweetness of her voice, Anuradha Paudwal's chanting by singing the mantra is much flawed. It is the same case with most online chantings one may find. The gAyatrI mantra should be chanted and meditated over, not sung like a bhajan, which is why purists like Atanu say it is very personal.

There is no doubt about the efficacy of the gAyatrI mantra, which is also known as the mahA-mantra, whether it is chanted Atmartha--for the Self, or kAmyAtra--with a worldly purpose. According to Hindu Dharma shAstras, only the dvIjas--those who are initiated into upanayanam (and this includes the three varNas: brAhmaNa, kShatriya, vyshya) can chant the gAyatrI. But then sages like BhagavAn Sathya Sai Baba are of the opinion that it is the universal mantra that can be chanted by anyone irrespective of the gender, caste, creed or belief. At the same time, one can derive the maximum spiritual benefits of the mantra only by chanting it with the svaras in the right way and brooding over the meaning of the lines.

*****

[Sahasranama]

2. The gAyatrI mantra starts and ends with AUM. Most texts and chantings omit the ending AUM.

I have read somewhere that ending with AUM after gayatri is only indicated for sannyasis.

I also read that the svaras indicated notes. I didn't know about the length of time associated with them.

According TKV Desikachar's booklet "Vedic Chant Companion," udAtta denotes a higher note, anudAtta a lower note, svarita a normal note and nighAda a delayed udAtta.

[Hiwaunis]

namaste everyone.

Let us first understand that the gAyatrI mantra is a veda mantra, and must therefore be chanted with the vedic accents.

For all the sweetness of her voice, Anuradha Paudwal's chanting by singing the mantra is much flawed. It is the same case with most online chantings one may find. The gAyatrI mantra should be chanted and meditated over, not sung like a bhajan, which is why purists like Atanu say it is very personal.

*****

Pranam,
I have read that there are several other mantras within the Gayatri. If this is the case WHY are some of you trying to throw obstacles in the path of those who wish to use it.

I know for sure that I do not have a vedic accent. When I first heard it chanted I almost threw that cd away. It wasn't pleasing to the ears. As for Anuradha Paudwal and Kavita singing flawlessly, job well done! There version is the 2nd largest seller. Now that being the case what is the purpose in degrading someone elses service to the world.

Where does this need to hinder others and come between devotees and their God come from? What's the purpose of doing this? We are not Christians! We are eternal immortal beings. God only knows how long we have been chanting The Gayatri. Please stop acting as if this is our first, only and last birth.

I was under the impression that by lifting ourselves up only then do we lift up others. Anuradha Paudwal recorded/SUNG THE GAYATRI about 10 years ago. She still sings it when requested to do so. She is responsible for UPLIFTING the hearts of millions. Are you doing service by degrading her?


AnuradhaPaudwal sings Maha Gayatri.JPG (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/attachment.php?attachmentid=565&stc=1&d=1273962051)


It's alright if some donot and will not chant or sing it. Please stop trying to hinder everyone else.

Namaste,
Hiwaunis

[Sahasranama]

Pranam,
I have read that there are several other mantras within the Gayatri. If this is the case WHY are some of you trying to throw obstacles in the path of those who wish to use it. Do not get offended. I am sure saidevo didn't mean this as an insult to Anuradha Paudwal.

Vedic mantras reach their full potential when they are chanted according to rules of pronunciation, tonality, length, strength, timing, continuity and proper rest pauses. This is all part of the tradition of the vedas. Therefore, a discussion on the finer details of recitation shouldn't be seen as an offensive. There is really no problem if you chant the gayatri mantra with devotion without the finer details. It is said that if you chant vedic mantras improperly the effect will only be on yourself. If you chant them properly it will have an effect on the entire environment. It can even change the structure of molecules.


When I first heard it chanted I almost threw that cd away. It wasn't pleasing to the ears.Vedic chanting is not like music. It does not necessarily have to be pleasing to the ear. I appreciate good music too, I like to hear mantras rendered beautifully, but vedic chanting and singing are not the same thing. They are not mutually exclusive either, but you can chant properly without making it sound beautiful. You can also sing with superb beauty and make grave errors in the chanting. I won't say whether Anuradha Paudwal made errors, because I am not qualified to judge.


I know for sure that I do not have a vedic accent.
A vedic accent is not something you have like a southern accent or an Indian accent, it refers to a technical aspect of the chanting. In my understanding it refers to the tonality. Ignoring the accents is like not knowing about algebra when you are trying to learn mathematics. So, please don't see these posts as offensive, but try to learn something that's new.


Where does this need to hinder others and come between devotees and their God come from? What's the purpose of doing this? We are not Christians! We are eternal immortal beings. God only knows how long we have been chanting The Gayatri. Please stop acting as if this is our first, only and last birth. You are not making an argument. I do not see any reason to start talking about Christianity here. I think this might actually become a little offensive to Christians, if people start mentioning them whenever something is said or done that they disaprove of.

[Hiwaunis]

Do not get offended. I am sure saidevo didn't mean this as an insult to Anuradha Paudwal.

Vedic mantras reach their full potential when they are chanted according to rules of pronunciation, tonality, length, strength, timing, continuity and proper rest pauses. This is all part of the tradition of the vedas. Therefore, a discussion on the finer details of recitation shouldn't be seen as an offensive. There is really no problem if you chant the gayatri mantra with devotion without the finer details. It is said that if you chant vedic mantras improperly the effect will only be on yourself. If you chant them properly it will have an effect on the entire environment. It can even change the structure of molecules.

Vedic chanting is not like music. It does not necessarily have to be pleasing to the ear. I appreciate good music too, I like to hear mantras rendered beautifully, but vedic chanting and singing are not the same thing. They are not mutually exclusive either, but you can chant properly without making it sound beautiful. You can also sing with superb beauty and make grave errors in the chanting. I won't say whether Anuradha Paudwal made errors, because I am not qualified to judge.


A vedic accent is not something you have like a southern accent or an Indian accent, it refers to a technical aspect of the chanting. In my understanding it refers to the tonality. Ignoring the accents is like not knowing about algebra when you are trying to learn mathematics. So, please don't see these posts as offensive, but try to learn something that's new.

You are not making an argument. I do not see any reason to start talking about Christianity here. I think this might actually become a little offensive to Christians, if people start mentioning them whenever something is said or done that they disaprove of.


Pranam,
I am not offended. I realize that on any road one travels' there are bound to be bumps in the road. These are just words on a screen. However, since I have gained so much from singing along with her, as well as chanting by myself I will defend her because she is not here to defend herself.

I am not offended because I donot have a vedic accent. As far as I am concerned I'll never know if I am getting the full benefits or not from chanting the way I do. However, I do see changes in myself. Others may chant with a vedic accent and may still have a lot of karma to burn. So it may seem to them as if they are not changing at all. It doesn't matter we who chant will get the benefits eventually.

I used Christianity as an example because I was at one time a Christian. I know how most of them think. Yes, they might get offended, oh well, they cannot escape from their karma.

I am making remarks against all the posts that try to hinder others spiritual growth not just Saidevo.

Namaste,

[saidevo]

namaste Hiwaunis and other members.

Let me first make it clear that Anuradha Paudwal is one of my favourite bhajan artistes, and I would rate her the third best after Lata Mangeshkar and Asha Bhosle. This however does not mean that I cannot point out her mistakes when she seeks to sing a Veda mantra in Sanskrit text which is not meant to be sung but chanted and meditated. And pointing out the mistakes in her singing the gAyatrI mantra is not the equivalent of criticising her and therefore you or she or anyone else for that matter don't have to proffer a defence or criticise me in return.

Anuradha Paudwal sings the gAyatrI mantra using the Hindi accent, not the Sanskrit svaras, which is why there are mistakes in her singing. Some of the mistakes that crops up because of this are:

01. The 'R' sound in 'bhUr' is slurred.
02. It is not 'bhuvassaha' but 'bhuva suvaha'.

03. The pause after 'bhuva suvaha' should come with a stress on the syllable 'va' and not by saying it flat. The one who chants the mantra pauses at this point and meditates on how AUM remains as the substratum of the three worlds bhu-bhuva-suva, which are the domain of his/her birth-death-rebirth cycle.

04. Although she gives enough stress at the phrase 'varENyam', she prolongs on the 'tat savitur' as 'tatsa viturrr'.

05. Again the 'R' sound in 'bhargo' is slurred.

06. The entire mantra peaks at the phrase 'prachodayAt' with a double stress on the syllable 'yA', but in her singing the entire last line 'dhiyo yo naH prachodayAt' is flat throughout. The term 'prachodanam' means 'stirring up, exciting, kindling': when the flame of a lamp is weak because the tip of the wick is burnt down, it is kindled by prodding up the wick a bit. gAyatrI does the same to our internal flame.

All the spiritual benefits you have spoken of in your post no.26 as derived by your chanting gAyatrI are not obtained from a God who is external to you but only by gAyatrI mAtA kindling the internal flame inside you which she has done it for you taking into account your steadfast devotion. I congratulate you on this accomplishment.

But then don't say,
"Others may chant with a vedic accent and may still have a lot of karma to burn. So it may seem to them as if they are not changing at all. It doesn't matter we who chant will get the benefits eventually."

Because you never know about others' karma (even to hazard a guess) and whether their chanting the gAyatrI with the Vedic accents which is the right way has not benefited them enough.

Please understand that I don't mean to cause a hurdle of your or anyone else's efforts of universalizing the gAyatrI. My posts of explanation are intended to be more like signposts than bumps on the road.

PS:
For recital of Sanskrit shlokas and mantras with good Sanskrit accent and intotation, IMO, we can learn much from Saindhavi's performances. Although she sings for the Tamil films, it seems she has had a formal training in Sanskrit, which probably accounts for the clarity of her Sanskrit rendition. Some links:

http://www.hummaa.com/music/artist/17324/Saindhavi/songs/Sanskrit
http://www.raaga.com/channels/sanskrit/searchresults.asp?search=Saindhavi&Lang=S&search_fld=ALBUM
http://www.emusic.com/artist/Saindhavi-MP3-Download/11646968.html

[amith vikram]

namaste,
i had said before that i would look up to this issue and i asked my senior friend(v subramanian) and here's his answer:
No. They cannot, as per the sampradaya. The issue is like this:

Maybe in some olden ages they had the right to upanayana and perhaps veda adhikAra too. But in the present age this is not allowed. There may not be an express prohibition in any smriti today which we could quote. But the fact stands that such practice is not followed in the present day. It could be explained as 'Yuga dharma'. Shankaracharya has said in one of his Sutra Bhashyas:

//That which is dharma in one place, one time, could well be adharma in another place, another time. //

The Taittiriya Upanishad says: In case of doubt as to what to do, how to do, when to do, etc. regarding dharmic questions, Follow the method / advice of the 'elders who are noble minded, who follow the dharmic path, who have no ulterior motive, no hidden agenda, who are inclined to do good to others'. This is the general advice. So, when your question is posed to thiese kind of people, they will give the reply: No. in this age it is not allowed.

In these matters, the authority one could look for is:

The sampradaya Acharya-s who follow the Vedic tradition like Sringeri, Kanchi and other Advaita Mutts and also the Acharyas of Madhva and Ramanuja orders. All of them are unanimous on this issue: women are not eligible to chant the Gayatri mantra. The reason is: They have no upanayana and Veda adhyayana adhikara.

Howmuch ever we press on this issue, the above alone is the answer. Others, like Arya Samaj, some other popular institutions might say yes to this question. But the sampradaya Acharyas will not agree to this.

Best regards,
subbu

[amith vikram]

namaste all,
if anyone feels any of my posts are insulting or in any way discouraging or simply on a negative note,please ignore it and go ahead with your plans.i do that when it happens to me. if we do something that should be done or not done,it doesn't matter as long as our mind is pure and the lord takes care of us.i wish good luck to all.

[devotee]

Dear Hiwaunis and all,

Please don't get discouraged by some people's remarks here. Yes, it is desirable to have correct accent but our devotion is certainly more important than our accent on which we have not full control.

There is no better Pramaan than Pratyaksha Pramaan ... "haath kangan ko aarisi kya" i.e. when you can directly see through your eyes why would like to see the reflection in the mirror ! You have already experienced the benefits of chanting the Gayatri Mantra ... so there can be no doubts here. If words really had meaning .... Vaalmiki would not have attained knowledge by singing "Maara, Maara". I know of one case when one woman worshipped Meena Kumari (a Muslim actress) as Mother Goddess and that also helped her spiritual development. The devotion is most important and other things are secondary.

There are so many opinions on almost everything in Hinduism ... Hinduism is like this. You ask 100 people about something & you are sure to get 100 opinions. So, it is upto you to decide unless you have a Guru who is there to guide you. Someone here said that Gaayatri should not be recited by women ! I won't say whether that opinion is right or wrong .... but in my family, all our brothers and sisters were given this mantra by our father and everyone recites it everyday with full devotion. All of us are happy in our own way and progressing spiritually well.

OM

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;



... our sanātana dharma we are blessed with gāyatrī which occurs in the ṛg veda (3.62.10) . This hymn allows us to raise themselves (ourselves) above the ideas of the time.


When thinking about svādhyāya&#185; or japa or ajapa of gāyatrī , you may consider saṁdhya upāsana - संध्य उपासन.
What is this ?

saṁdhya is being on the junction point . It also means thinking about, reflecting
upāsana is the the act of sitting or being near or at hand; it also means being intent on or engaged in adoration, worship, homageSo saṁdhya upāsana of gāyatrī are the times during the day ( the junction points) for sitting and being engaged in homage, worship or meditation.
These junction points, saṁdhya, are classically recognized 4 times during a full day. More on saṁdhya can be found here: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=622 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=622)

Two of these times are called twilight ( this would be AM and PM times). The astonomical word used is crepuscular - meaning pertaining to or resembling twilight.
What is considered 'official' twilight? Well there are 3 versions, yet using one's common sense it will be easy to see when saṁdhya upāsana should begin.

Civil twilight - begins at sunset and ends when the sun is 6&#186; below the horizon. Some see this as the sun balancing atop of the horizon. it takes 2 to 3 minutes for the
sun to sink below the horizon, pending where one lives. I like this civil twilight of 6&#186; because is translates to about 24 minutes or 1/2 of a muhūrta&#185;.
The degrees is given vs. actual time because the 24 minute period is not uniform. The 24 minutes occurs in the tropics closer to the equator; IN Seattle Washington, USA
its around 36 minutes in the fall. In Alaska its approximately one hour, yet between now ( May ) and July this twilight persists.
Nautical twilight - continues longer, until the sun is 12&#186; below the horizon
Astronomical twilight - continues longer until the sun is 18&#186; below the horizon. At this point stars are visible in the sky.So when to begin saṁdhya upāsana ? The first twilight.

praṇām

svādhyāya स्वाध्याय- reciting or repeating or rehearsing to one's self; repetition or recitation of the veda in a low voice ( or even ajapa - easily within one's awareness, internally to one's self).
muhūrta&#185; - a division of time ; 1/30th part of a day , a period of 48 minutes . Hence 1/2 muhūrta = 1/60th part or 24 minutes.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;


I wrote the following in post 52:


So saṁdhya upāsana of gāyatrī are the times during the day ( the junction points) for sitting and being engaged in homage, worship or meditation.These junction points, saṁdhya, are classically recognized 4 times during a full day.

One other thing that is very insightful is from the Mahābhārata. Bhīṣma-ji is lying on a bed of arrows. He, as he prepares to exit the body, praises kṛṣṇa-ji who is sitting there with others. Bhīṣma-ji praises the Lord in multiple ways i.e. names, forms & ideas.

One attribute he says is the following: the saṁdhi's are thy joints. For me this is perfect. We know that kṛṣṇa-ji is brahman ; Bhīṣma-ji
also calls kṛṣṇa-ji the same, he says thou are the highest of the high, brahma&#185; .

So what does this tell us ? Saṁdhi is a joint , a connection point, a union point and is equal to saṁdhya. We have talked of it as being the 4 junction points of the day.
That is a most attractive time for engaging in one's upāsana. We can see why.

It is that time that is close to brahma, Pure Being, kṛṣṇa-ji, the Divine, Pure Awareness. Yet there is more. Kṛṣṇa-ji's time of the day are his joints (saṁdhi) but this also occurs
between each yuga or age and at the end of each manvantara and kalpa. He is that perfect pause or rest ( another definition of saṁdhi). Yet there is more...

This pause or rest (saṁdhi) can also be found between each breath. It too is there. This pause or rest is found in madhya - central, middlemost, neither one or the other. Some say it is the 3rd.

This is one key principle found in the vij&#241;āna bhairava of kaśmir śaivism. In this middle-most one can find nirvikalpaṃ or nirvikalpa - not wavering ; it also means not admitting an alternative , free from change or differences.

praṇām

words
brahma for brahman. - Note the following derivatives - brahma is used for the impersonal Supremen brahmā for the personal Supreme