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smaranam
12 May 2010, 12:52 PM
Namaste

I am putting here what i understand as VaishNav Basics as requested by some new members interested in VaishNava Bhakti. Please forgive and correct any errors of mine. I shall edit the info accordingly.


VaishNava Basics


Devotion to the Supreme Lord , BhagavAn VishNu , KRshNa - PurNapurushottam.
Other names : Hari, NArAyaNa, Govind

Primary Scripture to begin with : Bhagavad Gita, and also Shrimad BhAgvat MahaPurAN

Major VishNu avatArs (God descending in human-like form among humans on earth) : The ten - DashAvtAr

Most popular Deity forms :

LAkshmi-NArAyan
RAm LakshmaN SItA
RukmiNi-DwArkAdheesh
RAdhA-KRshNa
Shri NAthJi ( KRshNa as a young boy)
Laddoo GopAl , BAl GopAl
Yogeshwar KRshNa
Lakshmi-Narsimha


Hari KathA : 1. Story/words about Hari (e.g. Shrimad BhAgavat PurAN)
2. Story/words spoken BY Hari e.g. Bhagavad Gita , Uttar Gita (Mahabharat), Uddhav Gita (Shrimad BhAgvat Canto 11)

------------

Navadha Bhakti : 9 forms of practicing devotion , as instructed by Narada Muni and Prahlad Maharaj

SB 7.5.23-24:śrī-prahrāda uvāca
śravaṇaḿ kīrtanaḿ viṣṇoḥ
smaraṇaḿ pāda-sevanam
arcanaḿ vandanaḿ dāsyaḿ
sakhyam ātma-nivedanam
iti puḿsārpitā viṣṇau
bhaktiś cen nava-lakṣaṇā
kriyeta bhagavaty addhā
tan manye 'dhītam uttamam

Prahlāda Mahārāja said: Hearing and chanting about the transcendental holy name, form, qualities, paraphernalia and pastimes of Lord Viṣṇu, remembering them, serving the lotus feet of the Lord, offering the Lord respectful worship with sixteen types of paraphernalia, offering prayers to the Lord, becoming His servant, considering the Lord one's best friend, and surrendering everything unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words) — these nine processes are accepted as pure devotional service. One who has dedicated his life to the service of Kṛṣṇa through these nine methods should be understood to be the most learned person, for he has acquired complete knowledge.

---
1. ShravaNam - hearing the glories and instructions of Hari KathA
2. KIrtanam - chanting, singing, reciting, relating Hari Katha (names, glories, truths)
3. smaraNam - remembrance or thinking of Shri Hari , His pastimes and all about Him (this word is also used to refer to the esoteric process of automatic yog with His pastimes)
4. vandanam - prayer and glorification
5. pada sevanam - serving His Lotus Feet (this word is packed with meaning )
6. archanam - Deity Worship
7. dAsyam - service, servitude - development of ; towards Bhagvan and His devotees
8. sakhyam - considering the Lord one's best friend
9. atma nivedanam surrendering everything (AtmA) unto Him (in other words, serving Him with the body, mind and words)

Formal Deity Worship i.e. pujA , archanA is not recommended without guidance by a Guru. A beginner is recommended to use good framed pictures of the Deity for offering food, arati or any other worship. Advanced worship includes Shalagram Shilas)


4 major sampradayas

1. Shri / Lakshmi : Shri VaishNav (Ramanujacharya, vishishta advaita)
2. BrahmA : TattvavAda and Gaudiya (Madhvacharya - dvaita - Udipi Krishna ; Chaitanya Mahaprabhu - achintya bheda abheda - Radha Krshna )
3. Rudra : Vishnuswami , Vallabhacharya - shuddha advaita, PushtiMarg, Shri NAthJi , BAl KRshNa , laddoo GopAl
4. Kumar : NimbarkAcharya , dvaita-advaita - Taking shelter of Shri Radha.

Swami HaridAsJi , a great singer , of the 4th (Kumar sampraday) , started a wonderful tradition of Radha-KrshNa Nikunja Seva in 'Sakhi bhaav' - the sentiment of Radha's girlfriends.


Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya

smaranam
12 May 2010, 02:40 PM
SAMPRADAY WEBSITES AND BASIC INFORMATION

Some Basics (http://www.krishna.com/krishna-consciousness)
PURE BHAKTI (http://www.purebhakti.com)
Offering Food to Krishna (http://www.krishna.com/offering-food-krishna)
Activities and Attitudes Unfavorable for Bhakti (http://www.krishna.com/are-there-any-things-i-should-avoid-if-i-want-become-krishna-conscious)
Activities and Attitudes favorable for Bhakti (http://www.krishna.com/content/i-want-do-something-improve-my-spiritual-life-any-suggestions)

Shri VaishNava Homepage (http://www.ramanuja.org/)

PushtimArg: The Path of Grace (http://http://www.pushtimarg.net/newPushti/index.php?page_nm=aboutus/aboutus&lang=eng)

Nimbarka Sampraday (http://nimbark.org)
http://nimbark.org/2008/03/27/introduction-sri-nimbarka-sampradaya-and-sri-golok-dham-ashram/
Haridasi Sampraday - a branch of Kumar - Nimbarka sampraday (http://swamiharidasji.com/)
Bankey Bihari Mandir (https://www.bihariji.org/may08/)

Other VaishNav Groups :

http://www.yogeshwar.org/
About LeelaTai, Shakti through whom KRshNa communicates (http://www.yogeshwar.org/om)
SHREE KRISHNA LEELA CENTRES (http://www.yogeshwar.org/list.htm)



--------

FINALLY, This will help understand how Lord Chaitanya incorporated the essence of the 4 major sampraday into His Gaudiya VaishNav tradition:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=43634&postcount=5

Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya

smaranam
12 May 2010, 02:48 PM
Holy Names of BhagavAn

japa - chanting on beads
kirtan - singing melodiously
sankirtan - congregational or group singing

1. MahAmantra : Hare KRshNa Hare KRshNa KRshNa KRshNa Hare Hare
Hare RAm Hare RAm RAm RAm Hare Hare
OR
Hare RAm Hare RAm RAm RAm Hare Hare
Hare KRshNa Hare KRshNa KRshNa KRshNa Hare Hare

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8484537158472488155# (Here - A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami PrabhupAd sings a few prayers - some very specific, before Mahamantra)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7z4DQO-OJnA&feature=related (Mahamantra - Jagjit Singh)

2. Om Namo NArAyaNAya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBy0nU2rPEY - beautiful
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ3ybBCX3S8&feature=related

3. Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GKjJPSbBZys - This is a bhajan but it includes the mantra.

Darji
12 May 2010, 10:35 PM
Thanks Smaranam, I think this will be a good place to start. Now we ned to sticky it and have someone make a Shivaism one :)

devotee
13 May 2010, 12:24 AM
Very good series of posts on Vaishnavism, Smaranam ! Thanks !! :)

OM

grames
13 May 2010, 02:01 AM
Dear Smaranam,

Its wonderful and nice of you to compile this informational messages for interested people and i am very happy to read this.

Also, i want to add this note to this nice mesasge that the fifth sampradaya that you mentioned is just your personal opinion and technically the HariDasi sampradaya is not a new one but an offshoot of Nimbarka's if i am right. Correct me if it is wrong.

These are the four authentic Sampradayas..

vamanas vidih sesah sanako visnu vakyatah dharmartha hetave caite bhavisyanti dvijah kalau
visnuswami vamanangsastatha madhvastu brahmanah ramanujastu sesangsa nimbaditya sanakasya ca
ete kalau yuge bhavyah sampradaya pravartakah samvatsare vikrama catvarah ksiti pavanah
sampradaya vihina ye mantraste nisphalah smritah tasmacca gamanang hyasti sampradaya narairapi


The last two lines of the above can be translated as this...
These four authorised and empowered spiritual channels of disciplic succession are to be fully accepted by all beings; as any word, combination of words or formulation of sound frequencies, invoked or addressed, audible or inaudible, secret or revealed, ancient or contemporary outside their auspices prove to have absolutely no efficacy.

Hare Krshna!

devotee
13 May 2010, 05:39 AM
Namaste Grames,

You have come on the scene at the right opportune ! :)

One of the members here wanted to know more about Nimbarka Sampradaya of Vaishnavism. I couldn't help him. Can you throw some light on this for the benefit of all who are interested in this path ?

OM

smaranam
13 May 2010, 01:34 PM
Darji and Devooteeji, you are welcome. I am glad to be of any service to you, it is service to KRshNa.

----

GramesJi, thanks for correcting that, the post has been edited. Actually, adding it as the 5th sampraday was an after thought - because it had to be mentioned somewhere, but initially i had put them under 'Other VaishNav groups'.

Now i remember reading some time ago that Swami HaridAsji who is Lalita Sakhi , follows the Kumar (HaMsa) Sampraday (Acharya - Nimbarka) - owing to the Radha sakhi focus.
Just as , although Vallabhacharya started PushtiMarg, he goes all the way back to VishNuswami's Rudra sampraday.

"Swami Haridas, the great Krishna devotee, belonging to the Nimbarka sampradaya discovered the image of Banke-Bihari in Nidhi Vana."
http://www.newworldencyclopedia.org/entry/Vrindavan (See subtitle "Temples")

Musical Tansen - Swami HaridAs
http://music.indobase.com/classical-singers/swami-haridas.html

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

At this point it is worth mentioning that Lord Chaitanya is the avatAr (incarnation) of KRshNa in the mood of Radha, and touched base with each of the 4 acharyas even before He took avatar. Then they all were reborn in His Gaudiya sampraday as close associates.


About Nimbarka Sampraday : There is a web link to their home page in post #3.

About : http://nimbark.org/shri-nimbarka-sampradaya/
Basically it was led by Sanak Kumar (Sanakadi) who was born as Nimbarkacharya. Devarshi Narad initiated Nimbarkacharya into teachings propounded by the HaMsa avatAr of Shri VishNu. Hence it was also called Hamsa sampraday. HaMsa Bhagvan --> 4 Kumars ---> Devarshi Narad ---> Nimbarkacharya (who is said to be avatAr of Sudarshan Chakra on this site)

Each of the 4 sampraday came from BhagavAn Shri KRshNa Himself.
visnuswami vamanangsastatha madhvastu brahmanah
ramanujastu sesangsa nimbaditya sanakasya ca
Visnuswami, Madhvacarya, Ramanuja and Nimbaditya will appear respectively as a portion of Vamana, Brahma, Ananta Sesha and Sanaka Kumara.
Garga Samhita, Canto 10, chapter 61, verse 24

Nimbarka (Kumar) sampraday focuses on Golok Dham Radha Krshna worship, by taking shelter of Radha. Swami Haridasji , the musical one,(weblink in post #3), takes this further to specialized Nikunja Seva of Radha-KRshNa in sakhi bhaav . The philosophy of Nimbarkacharya is "dvaita-advaita".....
..... but nothing like hearing VaishNav nectar from Gramesji. Looking forward to it :)

(About Deity Worship next....)

praNAm

Om namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya

Philippe*
14 May 2010, 05:21 PM
2. Om Namo NArAyaNAya
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBy0nU2rPEY - beautiful


Thank you very much smaranam for this video. I find it spiritually deep and very powerful. It inspires me a lot.

Regards,

Philippe

smaranam
16 May 2010, 07:55 AM
At this point it is worth mentioning that Lord Chaitanya is the avatAr (incarnation) of KRshNa in the mood of Radha, and touched base with each of the 4 acharyas even before He took avatar. Then they all were reborn in His Gaudiya sampraday as close associates.


Hare KRshNa

The state of Maharashtra also saw a major growth in KRshNa bhakti - KRshNa as "Vitthal" or "PAnduranga" , affectionately called "Vithoba", with His consort, first queen RukmiNi - as "VithobA RakhumAi".

Sant TukAram (like DnyAneshwar, NAmdev, GorA KumbhAr, JanAbAi etc.) spread the tradition of sankirtan in Maharashtra-Karnataka area. It is called the VArkari sampraday/tradition .

VAr = trips kari = doer.
VArkari = piligrim on his/her way to see the Lord at His TIrtha (in this case PandharpUr).

Sant TukArAm, a mystical poet singer devotee of Vitthal (who composed numerous bhajans called "abhanga") said he was initiated in his dream by "Raghava Chaitanya Keshava Chaitanya". It was evident that this was Chaitanya Mahaprabhu who had come to bless him. Chaitanya is RAghava (Shri RAm) as well as Keshava (Shri KRshNa).

PAnduranga Hari Vitthal ~

smaranam
20 May 2010, 05:37 PM
Thank you very much smaranam for this video. I find it spiritually deep and very powerful. It inspires me a lot.

Regards,

Philippe

Namaste Philippe

I had not seen this post. Glad to hear that. Yes, its beautiful , that video.

Om Namo NArAyaNAya

smaranam
24 May 2010, 02:29 PM
| om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya |

In his purport to Shrimad Bhagvatam 7.5.23-24 (Navadha Bhakti - 9 ways of devotional service) , Shrila PrabhupAd writes :

"Rūpa Gosvāmī states:
śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣid abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane
prahlādaḥ smaraṇe tad-ańghri-bhajane lakṣmīḥ pṛthuḥ pūjane
akrūras tv abhivandane kapi-patir dāsye 'tha sakhye 'rjunaḥ
sarvasvātma-nivedane balir abhūt kṛṣṇāptir eṣāḿ param

"Parīkṣit Mahārāja attained salvation simply by hearing, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī attained salvation simply by chanting. Prahlāda Mahārāja attained salvation by remembering the Lord. The goddess of fortune, Lakṣmīdevī, attained perfection by worshiping the Lord's lotus feet. Pṛthu Mahārāja attained salvation by worshiping the Deity of the Lord. Akrūra attained salvation by offering prayers, Hanumān by rendering service, Arjuna by establishing friendship with the Lord, and Bali Mahārāja by offering everything to the service of the Lord." All these great devotees served the Lord according to a particular process, but every one of them attained salvation and became eligible to return home, back to Godhead. This is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."


He also writes in the same purport (which elaborates on each of the line limbs of bhakti) :

(5) Arcanam. After pāda-sevanam comes the process of arcanam, worship of the Deity. If one is interested in the process of arcanam, one must positively take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master and learn the process from him. There are many books for arcana, especially Nārada-pańcarātra. In this age, the pańcarātra system is particularly recommended for arcana, Deity worship. There are two systems of arcana — the bhāgavata system and pāńcarātrikī system. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is no recommendation of pāńcarātrikī worship because in this Kali-yuga, even without Deity worship, everything can be perfectly performed simply through hearing, chanting, remembering and worship of the lotus feet of the Lord.

----
This is refering to formal worship. However, its very nice, and recommended, to have an altar with at least a picture, where one can offer flowers, water, fruits, incense, and also food. Any of these with love, and KRshNa accepts it gladly.
If food is offered to BhagavAn it has to be pure vegetarian and preferably cooked at home. Post #3 shows a link to "Offering Food to Krishna" , with guidelines on vegetarian food.

The simplest prayer at this time , could be in ones own words, as well as the mantras (post#4 shows some).

There are websites on Deity Worship too. I am not qualified to say anything, but my understanding is, any type of regular and routine archana - puja taken up by a devotee has to be done with sankalpa - determination. It has to be the least level of detail that can be continued in future in all/most circumstances unless there is a very good reason not to continue. This probably explains partly why it should be initiated by the Guru. The Guru knows the disciple.

Jai Shri KRshNa

Philippe*
09 June 2010, 03:14 PM
Namaste Philippe

I had not seen this post. Glad to hear that. Yes, its beautiful , that video.

Om Namo NArAyaNAya

Namaste smaranam,

Since I have seen this video, the mantra is coming to my mind day and night. It is such a blessing. I just wanted to know for details, do we have to receive it usually from a guru in the vaishnava tradition ?
A few years back, when I knew less about Sanatana Dharma, I heard inside "NArAyaNa, NArAyaNa" for some time. It happened during a night. I was immersed in a state of bliss for days. I discovered later that nArada muni says often "nArAyaNa, nArAyaNa". Since then, this mantra has very powerful effects on me.

Regards,

Philippe

smaranam
06 February 2011, 10:04 AM
Namaste smaranam,

Since I have seen this video, the mantra is coming to my mind day and night. It is such a blessing. I just wanted to know for details, do we have to receive it usually from a guru in the vaishnava tradition ?
A few years back, when I knew less about Sanatana Dharma, I heard inside "NArAyaNa, NArAyaNa" for some time. It happened during a night. I was immersed in a state of bliss for days. I discovered later that nArada muni says often "nArAyaNa, nArAyaNa". Since then, this mantra has very powerful effects on me.

Regards,

Philippe

Namaste Phillipe,

I am so sorry , i had not seen this post, and actually had not been coming here (to HDF) for months. Just got busy with things, as KRshNa has been taking me on trips...
I apologize, and hope you are still around to read this.

If you hear ""nArAyaNa, nArAyaNa" inside, guess who it was ?
1. Your antaryAmi, the Supersoul, ParamAtmA, guiding you
2. Past life saMskArs can also do this, but its ultimately the paramAtmA.

If the guidance was so pavitra (auspicious), what to speak of the guide, the Guru within. Please just go for this mantra, and i believe you are already doing this. My feeling is, that denying or brushing off our very own Dearest paramAtmA as "it is all in my mind" or "it is my imagination" can be a mistake and i personally look at it as not honoring Him, the closest and the Dearest to our heart.

When i met KRshNa, it was night too, but i wasn't asleep. Ever since then KRshNa, VAsudev, DwArkAdheesh, has been with me. I was also immersed in bliss for KRshNa alone knows how many days as i had lost track of time. He is also my BABY PARAMATMA as Baal Gopaal who comes crawling into my lap.

When Lord BrahmA wanted to know WHO exactly His source was, and also how to create the Universe, he meditated and heard a voice within "tapa tapah:" (means meditate) . That was Lord VishNu, BhagavAn instructing Lord BrahmA as his antaryAmi , paramAtmA. That is when Lord BrahmA understood there is someone superior to Him and he should follow HIS instructions for creating the Universe.

Now, about receiving it from a living Guru, yes, usually the tradition emphasizes on a Guru. So it is your personal decision, and it is also said that "when one is ready, the Guru comes to you" or better, ShrimAn nArAyaN Hari will send you a Guru if that is what He has planned for you. Sometimes, the Lord remains the Guru from within and we must try to communicate with Him. The Lord knows what works for us in this life, so now all you have to do is just leave it to Him, i.e. truly surrender at His Lotus Feet. Finally, the kind and gracious nArAyaN has already provided you with numerous shikshA Gurus (which includes people, books and information sources), from whom you can learn. He is so kind that He also gives the guidance to discriminate between what to choose and what to leave.

This is my personal viewpoint, and to be applied in this context, i.e. Phillipe's.

Om Namo nArAyaNAya ~
Jai Shri KRshNa
smaranam

kd gupta
07 February 2011, 03:46 AM
Welcome back Smaranamji
very good post
thanks and pl continue .

smaranam
07 February 2011, 03:58 PM
praNAm GuptaJi

Jai Shri KRshNa

smaranam
18 February 2011, 07:18 AM
|| Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya ||

What is SHUDDHA BHAKTI ?

Although one should hear about shuddha (pure) ahaituki bhakti from an adhikAri (authority), please consider this post as a non-adhikAri's humble attempt to be a writing instrument of KRshNa and His adhikAri devotees.

DEFINITION: Shuddha Bhakti = ahaituki bhakti : a + haituki (derived from hetu = intention, ultimate purpose) :

Selfless Devotion (bhakti) without a desire to obtain anything in return. Bhakti for the sake of bhakti, love for the sake of love. Love without any selfish motive, including liberation as in moksha, heaven, siddhis (powers) and knowledge towards these (except for knowledge of paramAtmA, BhagavAn - the Supreme Person, God).

The one and only target , object of Love is the Supreme Person - BhagavAn, ParamAtmA - Shri KRshNa or NArAyaN (VishNu , VAsudev who is everywhere). Only the Supreme Person can actually love. The living entities' expression of love in this material world is a perverted reflection of true selfless untainted love. While under the modes of material nature (sattva raja tamo guNa ) one is seeking something in return or keeping expectations.

Examples of shuddha ahaituki bhakti from the stalwarts of bhakti:

1. DAmodar Asktakam composed by Satyavrata Muni (sage):

Text Four:
varam deva! moksham na mokshavadhim va 
na canyam vrne 'ham varesad apiha 
idam te vapur natha! gopala-balam 
sada me manasy avirastam kim anyaih
Translation 
" O Lord, although You are able to give all kinds of benedictions, I do not pray to You for liberation, nor eternal life in Vaikuntha, nor any other boon. My only prayer is that Your childhood pastimes may constantly appear in my mind. O Lord, I do not even want to know your feature of Paramatma. I simply wish that Your childhood pastimes may ever be enacted in my heart."

Watch and read here: http://www.slideshare.net/krishnabhaktisangha/damodarashtakam

2. JagannAth ashtakam by Chaitanya MahAprabhu:

na vai yace rajyam na ca kanaka-manikya-vibhavam
na yace ’ham ramyam sakala-jana-kamyam vara-vadhum
sada kale kale pramatha-patina gita-carito
jagannathah svami nayana-patha-gami bhavatu me (7)
 
I do not pray to Jagannatha for a kingdom, nor for gold, jewels, wealth, or even for
a beautiful wife as desired by all men. My only prayer is that Shri Jagannathadeva,
whose splendid glories are always sung by Shiva, be the constant object of my vision.

http://nitaaiveda.com/Compiled_and_Imp_Scriptures/Vaishnava_Song_Book/Sanskrit_Songs/Sri_Jagannathastakam.htm

3. Chaitanya MahAprabhu in His shishtak (8 verses, His only written word):

Verse 8 

aslisya va pada-ratam pinastu mam 
adarsanan marma-hatam karotu va 
yatha tatha va vidadhatu lampato 
mat-prana-nathas tu sa eva naparah 


I know no one but Krsna as my Lord, and He shall remain so even if He handles me roughly by His embrace or makes me brokenhearted by not being present before me. He is completely free to do anything and everything, for He is always my worshipful Lord, unconditionally.

http://www.poemhunter.com/best-poems/gaurav-silwal/sri-caitanya-mahaprabhu-sikshashtakam/

4. Lord Chaitanya on Japa - chanting the holy names of the Lord:

Chaitanya Shikshashtak Verse 3 


trnAd api sunicena 

taror api sahisNuna 

amAnina mAnadena 

kirtaniyah sadA harih 


One should chant the holy name of the Lord in a humble state of mind, thinking oneself lower than the straw in the street; one should be more tolerant than a tree, devoid of all sense of false prestige, and should be ready to offer all respect to others. In such a state of mind one can chant the holy name of the Lord constantly.

BhagavAn Shri KRshNa in Bhagavad Gita
Chater 10, Vibhuti Yog: "Of sacrifices I am Japa-yadnya"

For more info, see hyperlinks to bhakti websites in post 3 on this thread.

Govindam Adi Purusham Tam aham bhajAmi ~

grames
18 February 2011, 08:29 AM
A big Wow....

Very beautiful collection.. Jewels of Bhakthi Rasa. Delighted is the only expression i am left with dear smaranam.

kd gupta
18 February 2011, 08:32 AM
Very good post Smaranamji
Na tadasti prithivyaam vaa divi deveshu vaa punah;
Sattwam prakritijairmuktam yadebhih syaat tribhirgunaih.
There is no being on earth or again in heaven among the gods that is liberated from the
three qualities born of Nature.
Yatah pravrittirbhootaanaam yena sarvamidam tatam;
Swakarmanaa tamabhyarchya siddhim vindati maanavah.
He from whom all the beings have evolved and by whom all this is pervaded,
worshipping Him with his own duty, man attains perfection.
Ya imam paramam guhyam madbhakteshvabhidhaasyati;
Bhaktim mayi paraam [duty with bhakti in mind ] kritwaa maamevaishyatyasamshayah.
He who with supreme devotion to Me will teach this supreme secret to My devotees,
shall doubtless come to Me.
For people like us this type of bhakti which leads us to think the parmatma as doer and jeevatma as medium ,applies, in my opinion .

smaranam
19 February 2011, 10:08 AM
praNAm


Very beautiful collection.. Jewels of Bhakthi Rasa. Delighted is the only expression i am left with dear smaranam.

Glad to be of service. I came here to post this yesterday, and to my pleasant surprise, found that you had been talking about the ShikshAshtak as well !



Yatah pravrittirbhootaanaam yena sarvamidam tatam;
Swakarmanaa tamabhyarchya siddhim vindati maanavah.
He from whom all the beings have evolved and by whom all this is pervaded,
worshipping Him with his own duty, man attains perfection.

True, svadharma.



For people like us this type of bhakti which leads us to think the parmatma as doer and jeevatma as medium ,applies, in my opinion .

Oh yes. KRshNa makes it appear as if i am doing things, then He works behind the scenes, quietly.

Technically, neither is ShyAmsundar the doer nor am i. "Dear mAyA Devi (prakruti), do what You want. We are out of here."

JagannAth SwAmi nayana path gAmi bhuvatu me ~

kd gupta
22 February 2011, 11:09 PM
Namaste smaranamji
I shall like you to explain maya and prakriti seperately because prakriti means nature or svabhav ,as chetan it is jeevatma and as jad it is maya or else ?:)

smaranam
23 February 2011, 05:19 PM
Namaste smaranamji
I shall like you to explain maya and prakriti seperately because prakriti means nature or svabhav ,as chetan it is jeevatma and as jad it is maya or else ?:)

Namaste Guptaji

I see what you are saying. I have seen several sources use maya and prakriti interchangeably, and not necessarily as jad but the original mULa.

However, i would rather not open that subject in this thread, and in fact, i should not have made that last statement.

Prakriti is the doer

If jiva is tatastha shakti (sitting on the fence between material and spiritual)

that makes jiva a fractional participant in the doership OR a tiny little-one of the internal doe-eyed HlAdani RAdhikA, depending on which side of the fence she (jiva) is facing at the moment.

KRshNa says one who thinks of themselves as kartA (doer) does not really understand. So jiva must be embodied(external)-AtmA(internal).

Hence i shall keep silent.... and silence is Golden is HariNAm is Brahman' is pAraBrahman' is KRushNa.

praNAm

Jai Shri KRushNa

smaranam
23 February 2011, 05:27 PM
|| Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya ||

Atho Brahman jidnyAsA say the Brahma SUtra

begin jidnyAsA
{
Who am I ?
Beloved of Shri KRushNa Govind Hari Mukund MurAri
Shankha Chakra GadAdhar MurliManohar ShyAmsundar

That's fine, but what is your nature ?
Who cares ? Beloved of Shri KRushNa, that's my nature.

Silence is Brahman

Silence is Golden

Therefore, Brahman is Golden!

And that beautiful Golden Adi Purush is param AtmA , G O V I N D

But Silence is HarinAm ! How ?

Constant HarinAm steers clear of jalpa / prajalpa - of which i am a culprit as well as speculations.

Oh, but HarinAm is non-different from Hari !
KRshNa's Holy Name is non-different from KRshNa
KRshNa's form, pastimes, dhAm are all non-different from KRshNa.
So Golden Silence = HarinAm (Holy Names) = KRushNa

So,
” Every word is a song, every gait is a dance,” - BRAHMA SAMHITA 5.56

harer nama harer nama
harer namaiva kevalam

kalau nasty eva nasty eva
nasty eva gatir anyatha

In this Age of Kali there is no other means, no other means, no other means for deliverance than chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name, chanting the holy name of Lord Hari.

- BRuhad NAradIya PurAn 38.126

Some say "no other way no other way no other way"

Something Lord Chaitanya has been telling us all along.

http://www.krishna.com/24-hour-kirtan-new-vrindavan-2009
Please scroll down and listen to "01 Visvambhar Das"

akhanda HarinAm saNkirtan ki jay

How did you like my math ?

Hare KRushNa Hare KRushNa KrushNa KrushNa Hare Hare
Hare RAm Hare RAm RAm RAm Hare Hare

}
end of jidnyAsA

praNAm

kd gupta
23 February 2011, 10:35 PM
Very good smaranamji
Just an idea to think vaishnavism in this thread . Vishnu has taken all three lokas in him , so Your beloved Shyamshunder is the root cause of all developments .
Everything including jeeva prakriti and the bondage as maya is his technology .
A female wants her child just to make a pleasure , but if child is busy with the toy playing , he is away form the mother , the brahman .
Dhyaanenaatmani pashyanti kechidaatmaanamaatmanaa;
Because
Daivee hyeshaa gunamayee mama maayaa duratyayaa;
and
Aham kritsnasya jagatah prabhavah pralayastathaa.
Thank you vey much for your decent thought .

smaranam
25 February 2011, 10:04 AM
PraNAm GuptaJi

Thank You always for all those thoughts, ideas, shloks and margadarshan.

The child that is engrossed in video games, toys, soda and junk food (given out of mAyA for the child), forgets KRshNa, the source and provider.
So True.

Jai Shri KRshNa

sarangi dasi
03 March 2011, 07:19 AM
Whereas another may see a child engrossed in purposeless play
as a reflection of a future engrossed in ahaituki bhakti.
Thus, the devotional mother may ask,
"How to guide child in such direction?"
Surely not by promoting Krishna as source and provider,
for that could intimate a devotion seeking some resource
or provision?

smaranam
03 March 2011, 04:46 PM
Whereas another may see a child engrossed in purposeless play
as a reflection of a future engrossed in ahaituki bhakti.
Thus, the devotional mother may ask,
"How to guide child in such direction?"
Surely not by promoting Krishna as source and provider,
for that could intimate a devotion seeking some resource
or provision?

Namaste SarangiJi, Welcome to HDF.

KRushNa is the mother here, in GuptaJi's analogy. The fact that KRushNa is the source and provider is only a stated fact, to show that all our comforts are His mAyA. Of course, jivas are introduced to KRushNa as Svayam BhagavAn thru' His qualities, pastimes and Words. To do so, they have to note that He is also the source and provider. Pure devotion comes when the jiva is ready.

Taken literally, yes , children of Sanatan Dharma do grow up learning stories of KRushNa and some develop true spiritual love for Him (which could be a result of previous lives). They are introduced to His qualities and pastimes which appeal. Only a passing ref. is made that He is God.

If i understand your point, you are suggesting that His MAdhurya (sweetness) triggers love whereas introduction to His Aishwarya (infinitude, opulence, power and the fact that He is God), can dampen the spontenity of that love. I partly agree and disagree. The Bhagavad Gita, a picture/painting, a Gokul-Leela movie, a Mahabharat movie or a combination of these can be equally responsible for awakening that dormant Love.

There are all kinds of jivas at different points in their spiritual journey. Some may require intellectual understanding of KRushNa first, others may not. Moreover, even if all it takes is a picture of Radha-KrushNa, that may imply that the jiva has digested the Bhagvad Gita in this or a previous life, as divine love is far from worldly love (which is referred to as a perverted reflection of divine/spiritual love - the upside down tree of the Gita).

In my opinion, one is initially attracted to Him by His qualities, Words, pastimes, gestures, beauty and L O V E (coming from KRushNa Himself).

However, age-old tradition of AchAryas tells us it can be a conscious process (sAdhanA bhakti) to gradually awaken the love for/of KRushNa, starting with nishthhA and shraddhA to the final goal of prem (which is every jiva's constitutional, original, natural position). This process (that begins with hearing - shravaNam) includes the promotion of the fact that KRushNa is the source and provider - KRushNas tu BhagvAn svayam.

Jai Shri KRushNa
praNAm

mukutesvara
09 March 2011, 06:54 AM
I agree with smaranam that there is a "conscious process (sādhana-bhakti) to gradually awaken the love for Kṛṣṇa" for those who aren't yet on the platform of spontaneous attraction.

“Now here is the definition of vaidhī-bhakti: Where the actions of bhakti arise, not from the attainment of rāga but by the teachings of the scriptures, it is called vaidhī-bhakti.” [Śrī Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.6 (http://bhaktimasterclass.org/books/BRS/BRS1.2.html#6)]
In Śrī Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu, Srīla Rūpa Gosvāmī has given a large list of the most important aṅgas of bhakti (http://bhaktimasterclass.org/books/BRS/BRS1.2.html#72) which could be considered Vaiṣṇava basics. Practicing of these will lead one to higher platforms of spiritual life.

The results of vaidhī-bhakti are stated Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam 11.27.49]:

“By worshiping Me through the various methods prescribed in the Vedas and Tantras, one will gain from Me his desired perfection in both this life and the next.” [Śrī Bhakti-rasāmṛta-sindhu 1.2.12 (http://bhaktimasterclass.org/books/BRS/BRS1.2.html#12)]

smaranam
10 March 2011, 01:09 PM
Namaste MukteshwarJi

Hare KRshNa, Welcome to HDF

Thanks for the links to Bhakti RasAmrut Sindhu, most important VaishNav basics.
A very simplified form of the various angas of bhakti, can be found in post 2 on this thread. It is under the titles "Activities and Attitudes Favorable and Unfavorable for Bhakti"

Haribol
praNAm

P.S. I also like the VishnuSahasranama page and video - http://www.vishnusahasranama.org (Esoteric Teachings) by Gaurahari Dadanudas Babaji.

mukutesvara
15 March 2011, 11:37 PM
Hare Kṛṣṇa smaranam,

Thank you for your warm welcome. I am glad you found the links useful. The aṅgas are so important in the beginning of spiritual life. I am glad you liked Śrī Viṣṇusahasranāma; it really does grant many wonderful benefits. I look forward to associating more with you on these forums.

Haribol,

Mukuteśvara dāsa

smaranam
14 April 2011, 02:19 PM
Hare KrushNa ~

Found myself - a mere writing instrument - pen this in another thread:

The Lord has kept us well-equipped with the hammer (mind), to be put to good use, as ONkArJi has summed up - remember Holy Names :
remember God (the form/name closer to you etc) and chant silently (upanshu japa). It breaks the present thought stream (without judging or condemning it) and brings us back to sattva. So,

Moral of the story: Do not snip the mind off of the oNkAr (AUM) :) , rather, purify it and dovetail it to the Infinite Lotus Eyed One. Sing O mind, sing : Govinda DAmodara MA ~ dhaveti ~

By increasing sattva to the point of shuddha-sattva.

Misconception: The mind has to be shut-down, killed or annihilated.

The nature of the jeevAtmA is activity, and love of the ParamAtmA, love of BhagavAn. It cannot remain inactive for long.

The mind when purified to shuddha sattva, is best kept in Leelas with BhagavAn ...

... but...How does one purify the mind ?

In VaishNav language: engage in Leelas with the Divine - in other words - shravaNam kirtanam vishNoh smaraNam vandanam archanam sakhyam dAsyam Atma-nivedanam - navadha bhakti (see posts #1 and #12 - Shrimad BhAgvatam 7.5.23-24 ).

Pick any one or more of the nine. The process feeds back into into the goal. The goal is to stay KRshNa-Conscious, the method is to stay conscious of KRshNa ( :) defN of KRshNa Consciousness from Krishna.com).

The one which is wrongly engaged is the material mind, the one engaged in service to and/or Leela with the Supreme Lord is the spiritual mind.

Service to the Supreme Lord includes sva-dharma.

---

Has anyone played the "potato" game as a child ? Take up the challenge to respond to each question and statement with "Potato"
What is your name ? Potato
What time is it ? potato
are you crazy ? potato

So there is no favoring, yes, no, for, against, just potato.

I think i am going to do just that - albeit with "Govinda Damodara Ma~dhave~ti ~" (just kidding). You may go ahead and play the game using "Hare KRshNa ~" or "Om namo nArAyaNAya ~" or "Om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~"

Govinda ~ DAmo ~ dara Ma~~dhave~ti ~
go~~vinda~dAmodara~~mAdhaveti
govin~~dada~modarama~~dhave~~ti
govindadAmo~~darama~~dha~~ve~~ti~

anirvan
22 April 2011, 02:53 AM
i want to put a useful info here ,a good explanation to a doubt in bhagabatam.

http://www.vnn.org/editorials/ET9903/ET20-3373.html

For conversation's sake, I offered that Sri Radha might not be so happy, kept as She was, so far from her Govinda. Our host was quick to question why, if Radha is so dear to Krishna, is She not mentioned in the Bhagavatam.

She was acquainted with Sri Sukadeva's famous indirect reference to Srimati Radharani, 'anayaradhito' (she who has perfectly worshipped Krishna), but this did not satisfy her. She countered my initial response, contending, "It is very directly pointed out in the Bhagavata that the gopis' love for Krishna is the highest. Why then should the highest type of gopi's love be concealed?"

I explained further that Sri Radha was the 'ista-devata' of Sukadeva, as mentioned in Sanatana Goswami's 'Brhad Bhagavatamrta'. There, Sanatana Goswami explains that when Sukadeva mentioned the name of Radha he became 'avista citta,' spiritually excited within, but externally inert. Brahma Vaivarta Purana further mentions that if Sukadeva had mentioned Radha directly, he would have lost consciousness for up to six months. Because Pariksit Maharaja had only seven days to live and listen to the pertinent advice of Sukadeva, Sukadeva avoided saying anything that would have rendered him incapable of helping his disciple.

smaranam
22 April 2011, 06:25 AM
from quote : "I explained further that Sri Radha was the 'ista-devata' of Sukadeva, as mentioned in Sanatana Goswami's 'Brhad Bhagavatamrta'."

Haribol !

And to add to the guhya - secret of secrets,

Who is Shukadev Goswami ? The parrot in Vrundavan (Shuka) who witnessed Radha-KrushNa lila, and who would act as Their alarm-clock. Sorry, i do not have scriptural ref for this - but there is this lecture by Shrila NArAyaN Maharaj.

Shukadev Goswami is portrayed as having shanta-ras only to keep this secret from all audience who does not want to know it. The goswamis and acharyas tell us that nothing in VrundAvan has shAnta ras. Not even the trees and grass - well if at all, it would be only them - what about the stick to herd the cows ? The cows are in vAtsalya of course.

Thanks for bringing this here AnirvanJi, i always hesitate to start the Radha / RadhasahasranAm thread that has been on the mind.

However, perhaps this is not VaishNav Basics :)

Radhe KrushNa Radhe KrushNa

praNAm

anirvan
22 April 2011, 08:03 AM
[QUOTE=smaranam;63420]Haribol !

And to add to the guhya - secret of secrets,


what about the stick to herd the cows ? The cows are in vAtsalya of course.

However, perhaps this is not VaishNav Basics :)

]
And the stick is in sakhya definitely as cows of Vrindavan needs the caressing touch of soft(like makkhan) fingers of kanha ,otherwise they will go astray sulking :)

SantaRasa is never part of bhava,they are witness outside vrindavan. Kanha never like BORING people :) as he likes his kinda....

dear smaranam ji, Vaishnavism can never be categorized as Basic :mad:

its the last...after everything...so highest of highest

bahunam janmanam ante
jnanavan mam prapadyate
vasudevah sarvam iti
sa mahatma sudurlabhah
[Bg. 7.19]


vasudeva-para veda
vasudeva-para makhah
vasudeva-para yoga
vasudeva-parah kriyah

Haribol...jai srikrishna......

smaranam
12 March 2013, 05:23 AM
|| om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ||



In his purport to Shrimad Bhagvatam 7.5.23-24 (Navadha Bhakti - 9 ways of devotional service) , Shrila PrabhupAd writes :

"Rūpa Gosvāmī states:
śrī-viṣṇoḥ śravaṇe parīkṣid abhavad vaiyāsakiḥ kīrtane
prahlādaḥ smaraṇe tad-ańghri-bhajane lakṣmīḥ pṛthuḥ pūjane
akrūras tv abhivandane kapi-patir dāsye 'tha sakhye 'rjunaḥ
sarvasvātma-nivedane balir abhūt kṛṣṇāptir eṣāḿ param

"Parīkṣit Mahārāja attained salvation simply by hearing, and Śukadeva Gosvāmī attained salvation simply by chanting. Prahlāda Mahārāja attained salvation by remembering the Lord. The goddess of fortune, Lakṣmīdevī, attained perfection by worshiping the Lord's lotus feet. Pṛthu Mahārāja attained salvation by worshiping the Deity of the Lord. Akrūra attained salvation by offering prayers, Hanumān by rendering service, Arjuna by establishing friendship with the Lord, and Bali Mahārāja by offering everything to the service of the Lord." All these great devotees served the Lord according to a particular process, but every one of them attained salvation and became eligible to return home, back to Godhead. This is explained in Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam."


He also writes in the same purport (which elaborates on each of the line limbs of bhakti) :

(5) Arcanam. After pāda-sevanam comes the process of arcanam, worship of the Deity. If one is interested in the process of arcanam, one must positively take shelter of a bona fide spiritual master and learn the process from him. There are many books for arcana, especially Nārada-pańcarātra. In this age, the pańcarātra system is particularly recommended for arcana, Deity worship. There are two systems of arcana — the bhāgavata system and pāńcarātrikī system. In the Śrīmad-Bhāgavatam there is no recommendation of pāńcarātrikī worship because in this Kali-yuga, even without Deity worship, everything can be perfectly performed simply through hearing, chanting, remembering and worship of the lotus feet of the Lord.


So we are talking about
a) bhAgavat
b) pAncharAtriki
systems of worshiping BhagavAn. While Shrimad BhAgavatam is full of ample nectar and jewels on bhAgvat worship, it also describes Deity worship of pAncharAtra mode in Canto 11 - Uddhav asks and KRshNa answers:
http://srimadbhagavatam.com/11/27/en

Shrimad BhAgvat also tells us that DevaRshi (celestial sage) NArad picked cherries from the Vedas that were all about devotional service, and this is where the NArada pAncharAtra has its source.
SB 1.3.8 (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/3/8/en)
tṛtīyam (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/t/trtiyam) ṛṣi (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/r/rsi)-sargaḿ (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sargam) vai (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/v/vai)
devarṣitvam (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/d/devarsitvam) upetya (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/u/upetya) saḥ (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/sah)
tantraḿ (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/t/tantram) sātvatam (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/s/satvatam) ācaṣṭa (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/a/acasta)
naiṣkarmyaḿ (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/n/naiskarmyam) karmaṇāḿ (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/k/karmanam) yataḥ (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/y/yatah)
In the millennium of the ṛṣis, the Personality of Godhead accepted the third empowered incarnation in the form of Devarṣi (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/d/devarsi) Nārada (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/n/narada), who is a great sage among the demigods. He collected expositions of the Vedas which deal with devotional service and which inspire nonfruitive action.

An example (of Narada's collections in NArad pAncharAtra):
trayo vedah shaD-angani chandaMsi vividhah surah
sarvam ashTAksharantah-stham yac canyad api vaMgmayam
sarva-vedanta-sararthah saMsararaMva-taraNah
"The essence of all Vedic knowledge—comprehending the three kinds of Vedic activity (karma-kanDa, jńana-kanDa and upasana-kanDa), the chhandas, or Vedic hymns, and the processes for satisfying the demigods—is included in the eight syllables. This is the reality of all Vedanta. The chanting of the holy name is the only means to cross the ocean of nescience."
(In the Narada Pańcaratra it is clearly said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead nArAyaNa personally appears before the chanter who engages in chanting the ashTakshara, or eight-syllable mantra, om namo nArAyaNAya. )


The most used guideline today for VaishNav Temples is NArada PAnchrAtra. What is pAncharAtra? VishNu BhagvAn explained 5 branches of knowledge about how to come to Him and stay with Him in 5 nights (pancha rAtra), to 5 mahanta - Shesha, Garud, Vishvaksena, BrahmA, Shiva. This collection is very comprehensive and the external Temple practices are only a small section of this pancharAtra set. There is nishkAm karma, jnana, everything in it.

The pAncharAtra texts are a collection of samhitas and tantras, both of which can be called Agama.

The VaishNav Agama are
i) PAncharAtra Agamas
ii) Vaikhanasha Agama

--

* Based on the Purusha Sukta (Rgveda 10.90) the Pańcaratra Agamas teach that God (Narayana or Vasudeva) manifests the whole
world from one fourth of himself. Therefore three parts of the supreme are immortal nectar that can be attained by liberated beings.

* Moksha = The attainment of the glorious and supreme feet of VishNu (tad vishNoh paramam padam).

Some jewels from NArad PAnchAratra (this text is particularly followed by Gaudiya VaishNav - who are predominantly bhAgvat types, while Shri VaishNav worship is predominantly pAncharAtriki, from which the Gaudiya Vaishnav inherit this aspect also):

continued in the next post...

smaranam
12 March 2013, 05:31 AM
|| om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ||


NarayaNa-samhita says:

dvapariyair janair vishNuh:
pańcaratrais tu kevalairh:
kalau tu nama-matreNa
pujyate bhagavan hari?
"In the Dvapara-yuga people should worship Lord VishNu only by the regulative principles of the Narada Pańcaratra and other such authorized books. In the Age of Kali, however, people should simply chant the holy names of the Supreme Personality of Godhead."


The Narada Pańcaratra asserts:

trayo vedah shaD-angani chandaMsi vividhah surah
sarvam ashTAksharantah-stham yac canyad api vaMgmayam
sarva-vedanta-sararthah saMsararaMva-taraNah
"The essence of all Vedic knowledge—comprehending the three kinds of Vedic activity (karma-kanDa, jńana-kanDa and upasana-kanDa), the chhandas, or Vedic hymns, and the processes for satisfying the demigods—is included in the eight syllables. This is the reality of all Vedanta. The chanting of the holy name is the only means to cross the ocean of nescience."
(In the Narada Pańcaratra it is clearly said that the Supreme Personality of Godhead nArAyaNa personally appears before the chanter who engages in chanting the ashTakshara, or eight-syllable mantra, om namo nArAyaNAya. )

manir yatha vibhagena nila-pitadibhir yutah:
rupa-bhedam avapnoti dhyana-bhedat tathacyutah:
"The infallible Personality of Godhead can manifest His body in different ways according to different modes of worship, just as the vaidurya gem can manifest itself in various colors, such as blue and yellow." Each incarnation is distinct from all the others. This is possible by the Lord's inconceivable potency, by which He can simultaneously represent Himself as one, as various partial forms and as the origin of these partial forms. Nothing is impossible for His inconceivable potencies.

dharmartha-kama-moksheshu neccha mama kadacana
tvat-pada-pankajasyadho jivitam diyatam mama
"I do not want any one of the four desirable stations. I simply want to engage as a servant of the lotus feet of the Lord."


ananya-mamata vishNau mamata prema-sangatA
bhaktir ity ucyate bhishma- prahladoddhava-naradaih
"When one is firmly convinced that VishNu is the only object of love and worship and that there is no one else—not even a demigod—worthy of receiving devotional service, one is said to feel intimacy in his loving relationship with God. This is the conclusion of such personalities as Bhi?ma, Prahlada, Uddhava and Narada."

- source: Vanipedia - Vaniquotes.

_/\_

smaranam
15 November 2013, 03:11 AM
Hare KRshNa
om namo nArAyaNAya
om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~
Jai Shri KRshNa ~

I just want to correct a few things on this thread that brahma-jijn~asa pointed out. Unfortunately it is too late to edit the posts since it has been a few years.

Here are the edits:

1. RAm should be RAma , since that is how it is in sanskRt (we say RAm in Hindi and other Indian languages).
My tendency to drop the last 'a' a few yrs ago, was because I heard some non-Indian language speakers read the transliteration and pronounce raamaa, japaaaa, haaayagreevaaaa krishNaaa :)

2. Lord Chaitanya is not a shaktyAvesha avatar of KRshNa in the mood of RAdhA. He is just KRshNa in the mood of RAdhA according to GauDIya VaishNava siddhAnta.

Sorry about that.

Have seen the paDchhAyA (loving shade) of Lord Chaitanya. Therefore, the idea was not to downplay His avatArhood or imply that He is jiva-tattva.

Avesha need not always be a jIva.

1. bhagavad-Avesha --- divine absorption like like KapilaDeva and RshabhDeva etc.
2. shaktyAvesha (shakti Avesha)-- directly empowered by Lord like Shesha, Devarshi NArad and the 4 kumArs (saNak-Adi).
3. vibhUti -- jivas indirectly empowered by Lord's oppulence (Gita chapter 10)

Bhagavad-Avesha is not a jiva. My understanding was that shaktyAvesha can be of two kinds - a jIva or an expansion (both are aMsha in a sense, but the expansions are not jIva tattva).
Remember reading that He is shaktyAvesha. Cannot find that ref. but there is a possibility that I may have misunderstood.

Thanks brahma-jijn~asa!

_/\_

smaranam
20 November 2013, 05:24 AM
Avesha need not always be a jIva.

1. bhagavad-Avesha --- divine absorption like KapilaDeva and RshabhDeva etc.
2. shaktyAvesha (shakti Avesha)-- directly empowered by Lord like Sesha-ananta, Devarshi NArad and the 4 kumArs (saNak-Adi).
3. vibhUti -- jivas indirectly empowered by Lord's oppulence (Gita chapter 10)

Bhagavad-Avesha is not a jiva. My understanding was that shaktyAvesha can be of two kinds - a jIva or an expansion (both are aMsha in a sense, but the expansions are not jIva tattva).

Hare KRshNa

Brahma jijnasa helped find a place in Prabhupad's purports that supports the statement above that shaktyAvesha avatAr is not necessarily a jiva. Avesha could be a direct expansion of the Lord, as per teachings of Lord Chaitanya Himself :

http://vedabase.net/cc/madhya/20/246/en2
The saktyavesa-avataras are categorized into (1) forms of divine absorption (bhagavad-avesa (http://vedabase.net/a/avesa)), such as Kapiladeva or Rsabhadeva, and (2) divinely empowered forms (saktyavesa), of whom seven are foremost: ...

Here, Pruthu Maharaj is an example of an empowered jiva as an avatAra, whereas Shesha is an example of an empowered expansion of the Original Lord as avatara. Both act as devotees of BhagavAn.

Just a minor FYI, patching the info together.

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~