Hindu Priesthood

[Ashvati]

How much training is needed to become a legitimate hindu priest, and what difficulties might a white person face if they wanted to be a priest? At this point in my life, its one of several paths my life may take me in, and I'm no where near decided on what path to follow, but I thought I might ask on here while I'm thinking of it.

[devotee]

How much training is needed to become a legitimate hindu priest, and what difficulties might a white person face if they wanted to be a priest? At this point in my life, its one of several paths my life may take me in, and I'm no where near decided on what path to follow, but I thought I might ask on here while I'm thinking of it.

Oh, you are still carrying the Christian/Muslim tradition in mind !

Hindu Priesthood is not like a profession as is Christian priesthood. You can't take a degree from a college on Hindu scriptures and become a Hindu Priest ! It is not done that way.

You can be a priest of any temple if it mainly consists of non-Indians even without any degree ... if you have some knowledge of how to perform Puja correctly. However, Indians have a tradition of accepting only a born brahmin as a Priest who has been trained in this profession by his elders. There is no organisation like Church in Hinduism who can confer you the title of Hindu priest.

OM

[Ashvati]

If you read my post a little more carefully, you'll notice I never said anything about school, merely asking how one goes about learning to be a priest. I gave no examples of how I might expect to become one. I left the question as open-ended as I could for a reason.

I have also heard of people of lower castes being given brahmin status by a guru, and kept that in mind as a way to get around the problem of having no varna to speak of.

[TatTvamAsi]

If you read my post a little more carefully, you'll notice I never said anything about school, merely asking how one goes about learning to be a priest. I gave no examples of how I might expect to become one. I left the question as open-ended as I could for a reason.

I have also heard of people of lower castes being given brahmin status by a guru, and kept that in mind as a way to get around the problem of having no varna to speak of.

A non-Indian/non-Hindu can never be a Hindu priest. End of story.


And, the part I added emphasis is about a modern phenomenon really. There are some temples with sUdrA priests. Yet, nobody considers them real priests. It is one of those 'politically correct' things. Plus, all those sUdrAs are Hindus (Indians). You're automatically disqualified.

[sanjaya]

Honestly I'm not sure how anyone becomes a priest these days. Those guys seem to be trained by their family to carry on the tradition. But even a lot of us Brahmins have no clue how to perform priestly functions. Even my dad (who is very knowledgable on temple rituals) probably doesn't have the necessary skills.

As for difficulties that a white person specifically would face, obviously some Hindus are going to be discriminatory. I would personally have no problems with a white priest.

[devotee]

If you read my post a little more carefully, you'll notice I never said anything about school, merely asking how one goes about learning to be a priest. I gave no examples of how I might expect to become one. I left the question as open-ended as I could for a reason.

Normally, it runs in the family. The father/mother teach their children how to conduct various poojas. There are books also which give step-by-step instructions for conducting poojas.


I have also heard of people of lower castes being given brahmin status by a guru, and kept that in mind as a way to get around the problem of having no varna to speak of.

Lower caste people have been recently made priests in some temples in India. There are schools too which teach such things. However, what I wanted to say that just by taking a degree doesn't make you a priest in a Hindu society.

You should not have an illusion that Priesthood is very sought after "profession" in Hindu society. In fact, it is the least favoured. Even the traditional brahmins are slowly becoming reluctant to encourage their children in this profession. This is because though these priests are highly respected ... their earning is too meagre as compared others in society and there are a number of restrictions on their conduct. This is the reason why this varna i.e. Brahmin varna has the least mixing-up from other castes from the society ... it is not attractive economically.

OM

[isavasya]

Namaste ashvati,

Well to be priest you need to have the knowledge of karma kanda, now that involves many habits which people develop from childhood, and also In Hinduism shabda ucharan (pronunciation) is also a very important thing. Sanskrit is a scientific language. Using mantras like shri rudram for world peace requires its correct pronunciation. A person who is not born in india or even Indians living in west for 2-3 generations will have much difficulty getting the pronunciation right. so I will say, Non-indians cant be good priests.


At the same time, Non-indian hindus can dwell into jnana and become guru by learning. Sivaya Subramuniyaswami is a perfect example of that ! I hope you understand, the paths are infinite, with Lord shiva's blessings every one can attain him.

[Sahasranama]

Traditionally, only brahmins would function as priests. But in this aapatta kaala, people are only proud to be born in brahmin families. Some even function as priests while they have only minimal understanding of rituals and the scriptures, or while they do not follow the rules of conduct very strictly.

I am born in a brahmin family, I could probably perform most pujas, except sanskaras, better than a lot of pundits I have seen functioning here in the Netherlands. I have no ambition to become a priest though. There are institutes in the Netherlands to educate people to perform karma kanda. One university in Amsterdam is even considering to offer a master degree for Hindu priests.

I see one problem though with these institutes. They don't restrict themselves to traditional Indian priesthood education. They want Hindu priest to function both as ritualist and some kind of psychologist and social worker. I think this is outside the scope of Hindu priesthood and silly to ask of Hindu priests. They will not become expert priests nor will they become expert psychologists. Besides, asking priests to function as social workers shows that there is little faith in Hinduism itself, that they need to resort to western psychology. Many of these graduates are not accepted to work in temples. Some temples will provide their own education for people aspiring to become priests.

There are certain requirements of priests. First he (or she) needs to have done upanayana sanskaara and do Gayatri japa every single day. He needs to be able to correctly pronounce the sanskrit with pure aksharas and svaras. He needs to abstain from bad conduct like drinking alcohol and eating meat. He needs not to be complacent and perform the rituals correctly and with devotion every time. He needs to continue to learn and teach about Hindu dharma.

A lot of people born in brahmin families do not follow all these rules and still are respected as pundits by many people. I would have no problem taking a priest from a lower caste or even from another ethnicity if they were pure souls who have elevated themselves to the level of brahmin through their guna and karma, above someone who is only proud to be born brahmin, but is complacent about his own spiritual conduct and development.

Lately, I have been watching discourses of Swami Satyananda, a white sadhu. I have a lot of respect for him and I think he is a great soul and a honest swami. But if I would not accept him as my pundit, because he cannot pronounce sanskrit properly. It sounds like he is giving a jazz concert. http://www.shreemaa.org/drupal/?q=taxonomy_menu/58/157

In India the situation will be different than in western country. Hindu priesthood is a dying profession here in the Netherlands. In India you will find some who is a brahmin both by janma and karma on every corner of the street.

[NayaSurya]

Dear Ashvati I meditated long on this subject this morning and was given something I will take to this heart and try my best to understand.

It is easy to embrace the more fuzzy, loving pieces of Siva...but much more difficult to embrace the shark waiting in the depths...for the moment when you would extend your hand in good will. This creature only has a one sided intelligence, it can not be reasoned with...


I have a quote I created after dealing with a neighbor who was very nasty to my family. She was Christian and knew our family wasn't...so she constantly did things to us. She killed our kittens.

But in response to this I actually became worse than her. I allowed my inner animal to come forward and treated her with the same harshness.

Then one day I realized...that my neighbor...was infact Ned Flanders from the cartoon the Simpson's....and I was???

HOMER! LOL

This immediately changed my outlook.

"The question in life...isn't how to deal with one who is Flanders but more so how to deal with them without becoming their Homer Simpson!"
M.E.

I'm not saying you're Homer either, but I thought it would make you laugh to hear about this:P

The shark can not help it's place amongst us...any more than the cowbird. They are infact the same. The make us stronger, or we succumb to them. God willing we all become stronger. It's taken some strong hands to keep this soul from doing the lesser.

It is easier to speak Spanish, if you are a child of Spanish speaking parents...but a 60 year old man speaking Spanish for 40 years has just as much ability as the man who has been speaking it for 60...think about it.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Ashvati:

Try searching on Artha Vidya Gurukulam. It is run by a respected swami, Dayananda Saraswati. He would be able to give you a better answer, and is here in America. I'm not sure if his gurukula involves priest training or not.

But you are about 20 years behind. There is an excellent training school in Pillaiyarpatti, India, but its Brahmin boys starting out very young.

I was a priest here temporarily, called a pandaram. But it was really temporary in all respects. The community had a murthi and wanted to worship, but no Brahmins. None of the Vellalars would step forward, and someone had to. My Sanskrit was bad, real bad, but there would have been no group worship so I reluctantly did it. When we got big enough a Brahmin was hired.

To be a REAL priest you need years and years of training. Here is an example: For a 'moving the temple' (balasthapanam, I think, if memory serves) ceremony here we hired an Indian priest, well trained. His memorization of slokas alone was incredible. He knew enough Sanskrit from memory to chant a full week non-stop without repetition. He had memorized 1008 names of several deities. And to top[ it off, he was an incredibly sweet man in demeanor.

Here in the west with the new temples it is very hard to find a well versed priest to be chief priest at Mahakumbabhishekams, as the rituals are so very complex and elaborate.

As Devotee said, the term 'priest' is incredibly different from Hinduism to western faiths. The role is terribly different. A better term is Iyer or Kurrukal, or even Pundit. This eliminates confusion.

Aum Namasivaya

[Sahasranama]

To be a REAL priest you need years and years of training. Here is an example: For a 'moving the temple' (balasthapanam, I think, if memory serves) ceremony here we hired an Indian priest, well trained. His memorization of slokas alone was incredible. He knew enough Sanskrit from memory to chant a full week non-stop without repetition. He had memorized 1008 names of several deities. And to top[ it off, he was an incredibly sweet man in demeanor.

Pundits from India are really amazing. When I first visited a tamil temple, I was completely amazed by the whole scene. I had never seen something like that from surinam pundits.




I have a quote I created after dealing with a neighbor who was very nasty to my family. She was Christian and knew our family wasn't...so she constantly did things to us. She killed our kittens.

That's horrible. I can't understand how people can do stuff like that.

[Ashvati]

Thank you to everyone who had something other than insults and discouragement and actually had answers. I understand that it takes years or gruelling memorization, and that even after that one needs to continue to improve, and that there are such strict rules governing one's conduct even after training has gotten to the point of being a proficient pundit. That's one of the reasons I haven't settled on the idea. In regards to NayaSurya's words about Shiva's other side, that's one of the reasons I consider myself a saivite; according to my understanding of what the godhead is, Shiva forms a more complete picture of it than Vishnu for example.

[smaranam]

In regards to NayaSurya's words about Shiva's other side, that's one of the reasons I consider myself a saivite; according to my understanding of what the godhead is, Shiva forms a more complete picture of it than Vishnu for example.

Sorry Ashvati, but this statement has some ignorance in it - which is not so bad because we are still learning, and have ignorance at various levels.

From my ignorant perspective - i can only say there is no such thing.

I am happy for you that you have found Shiva. However, what you see as incomplete in VishNu is not in Him, but in your not seeing it.

Shiva presides over TAmas (destroyer of ignorance) and VishNu presides over Shuddha Sattva (Anand).

** One is BholenAth who is pleased easily and destroys ignorance,

** the other is Hari who trades desires for bliss and MurAri hungry for bhAv (pure love free of any traces of selfish desire or ambition).
Just flavors for different kinds.

He needs nothing other than selfless love. All personal japa, in-home puja archana is for us. All Temple worship is for community. None of it is for Him, but only to purify us as individuals and society, and the side effect is joy from it. We all know this but its good to say it.

[Ashvati]

Thanks for the correction, and for the understanding in how you told me I know that I still have a lot to learn, and that I've spent far too much time learning stories instead of getting a finer grasp on philosophy.

I still feel a closer kinship to Shiva, and I did and still do have a lot of respect for Vishnu. One of the ways I thought of Vishnu early on was that the christian view of god incarnated himself only once to impart some teachings and "die for our sins" and left. Vishnu on the other hand I was immediately able to respect a lot more when I began learning about hinduism because he had incarnated himself on earth to save all humanity and the dharma not once, but no less than 9 times with another on the way.

[smaranam]

Namaste Ashvati

I also have a lot to learn. Its wonderful to observe how He uncovers the layers on us , little by little. Kinship with Shiva - that's perfect.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakam Ashvati et al:

From my perspective, one does not 'need' both Siva and Vishnu. From the Saiva's perspective, Siva is all you need. From a Vaishnava's perspective, Vishnu (or Krishna) is all you need.

The idea of needing both is mostly a Smarta concept. Of course, that is okay too.

I worship Siva nad His two Sons Murugan and Ganesha. They are plenty enough to give me all the religious and mystical needs a man could ever want. This is not to say I disrespect any valid Hindu sampradaya.

Aum Namasivaya

[Darji]

Yes, but Shiva is the greatest devotee to Vishnu, and it is recommended by our Lord to pay homage to Shiva. :D

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Darji: You`re just lucky I saw the grin or the fight would have been on!

Aum Namasivaya

[satay]

namaste Ashvati,

I am not sure if you actually are understanding what other hindus are telling you here. The idea of being a 'priest' is not something one 'settles' on or decides to settle on.

In all honesty, TTA's post though harsh sums it up. Devotee tried to tell you in the second post but you seemed to have brushed it off.

Once you get more familiar with hinduism, you will know why this question sounds so silly to hindus.

It's not only about years of gruelling memorisation...


I understand that it takes years or gruelling memorization, and that even after that one needs to continue to improve, and that there are such strict rules governing one's conduct even after training has gotten to the point of being a proficient pundit. That's one of the reasons I haven't settled on the idea.

[satay]

namaskar,


Vishnu on the other hand I was immediately able to respect a lot more when I began learning about hinduism because he had incarnated himself on earth to save all humanity and the dharma not once, but no less than 9 times with another on the way.

Not to discourage you or beat on you Ashvati, but this is a wrong understanding of vishnu avatars.

Lord Vishnu doesn't incarnate himself to 'save' something... he has a different purpose. Much deeper purpose.

Please do more research to find out why he incarnates and that will be very helpful in understanding hinduism.

Thanks,

[satay]

Vannakkam Darji: You`re just lucky I saw the grin or the fight would have been on!

Aum Namasivaya

No, Not again! :D

That reminds me, I haven't see many of our ISKCON members here lately...I wonder why.

[Sahasranama]

Vannakkam Darji: You`re just lucky I saw the grin or the fight would have been on!

Aum Namasivaya


Are we talking about milk and yoghurt? :cool1:

[Darji]

Yes he says Milk, and I say yoghurt cups with the fruit in the bottom... all I know is it wouldn't be a pretty sight :)