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Darji
14 May 2010, 02:52 PM
What are some good translations of the Gita and other texts of a Vaishnav nature that are not Victorian "literary" translations or translations with an alteriour motive?

Either online or in print

Eastern Mind
14 May 2010, 02:58 PM
Vannakkam Darji:

Unfortunately there is no such thing. Only the originals are. You have to know Sanskrit for that. The very fact that it is a translation means it went through one person's mind, and therefore it has the bias of that person written all over it. All you can do is read 2 or 3 or 5 or 20, and ask yourself "Which of these seems to make the most sense to me?"

Aum Namasivaya

Darji
14 May 2010, 02:59 PM
I can solve this with another post....

satay
14 May 2010, 03:48 PM
Gita Press.

Sahasranama
14 May 2010, 04:05 PM
Indeed, GitaPress is great.

Here are some free downloads from Gita Press:

http://gitapress.org/Download_Eng_pdf.htm

Darji
14 May 2010, 04:11 PM
Thanks all

ScottMalaysia
15 May 2010, 03:54 AM
The GitaPress translation looks good, although there are some verses which I think could be translated better. Eknath Easwaran's translation seems quite good, although I haven't read much of it. You can see a sample of it here (http://books.google.co.nz/books?id=a-Oh_-rK5SQC&printsec=frontcover&dq=bhagavad+gita&source=bl&ots=HB7UKE4EVC&sig=_SMft8ruA37AV5RaO0ahW7AgtvQ&hl=en&ei=pVHuS7aYGpSUtQPGxqSLDw&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=15&ved=0CGcQ6AEwDg#v=onepage&q&f=false).

As for an unbiased translation of the Gita, I would go with Swami Chidbhavananda's translation (http://www.vedanta.com/store/bhagavad_gita_chidbhavananda.htm?__utma=1.817529561.1271673996.1271673996.1273909609.2&__utmb=1&__utmc=1&__utmx=-&__utmz=1.1273909609.2.2.utmccn%3D%28organic%29%7Cutmcsr%3Dgoogle%7Cutmctr%3Dbhagavad%2Bgita%2Bswami% 2Bchidbhavananda%7Cutmcmd%3Dorganic&__utmv=-&__utmk=101892738). He also offers a commentary on most of the verses, which often have analogies and other aids to understanding the Gita.

The Chidbhavananda translation especially translates the Gita as prose that can be understood. You'll find that many translations either 1) try to render the Gita into poetry, or 2) use King James Bible English (probably because it makes it more like the translator's idea of "scripture"). While the Gita was written as poetry, I believe that faithfully presenting the meaning is more important than keeping the form of a poem. The Psalms were originally songs that were used in Jewish worship, yet modern Bible translators don't translate them as verse because keeping the meaning of the original Hebrew while putting it into a poem format would be extremely hard.

I have to say that Srila Prabhupada's translation of many verses is excellent. However, other verses are translated through his sectarian glasses. He mistranslates the word 'deva' as 'demigod' in many places, however he translates it as 'Lord' when it refers to Krishna in three verses in Chapter 11. This is because his sect believes that all other Gods except Krishna are not the Supreme - they are servants of Krishna. At other times he does not translate the Sanskrit faithfully but does a looser translation where he conveys the 'meaning' of what the Sanskrit is trying to say, seen of course through his sectarian glasses.

So my advice would be to go with the Chidbhavananda translation.

Shanti
17 May 2010, 07:56 PM
I like "The Holy Geeta" by Swami Chinmayananda

http://www.chinmayapublications.org/detail.php?id=106&prodid=AG01

It can also be downloaded for free here

http://www.chinmayauk.org/Resources/Downloads.htm

TatTvamAsi
21 May 2010, 11:48 AM
Indeed, GitaPress is great.

Here are some free downloads from Gita Press:

http://gitapress.org/Download_Eng_pdf.htm

Indeed! The Gita Press seems to be authentic and free from outside influences.

They also run a VedapAtaSAlA so it might be a good idea to donate some money to them to help them run the traditional gurukulA.

TatTvamAsi
21 May 2010, 11:51 AM
What are some good translations of the Gita and other texts of a Vaishnav nature that are not Victorian "literary" translations or translations with an alteriour motive?

Either online or in print

Darji,

Unbiased and English (aka western) are oxymorons.

If you want translated Scriptures, Sri Aurobindo is a brilliant scholar and considered by some to be enlightened. He was definitely a mystic with supreme intellect (photographic memory etc.).

I warn you though; his English is so difficult (but excellent) that you will need a dictionary in your hand to parse each sentence which are about two paragraphs in length. LOL!

Darji
21 May 2010, 02:29 PM
Jai shree Krishna,

Yeah I kind of wish I used a different title after I had pressed post... none the less what I mean was a translation that was devoid of the Victorian flourishes and poetic metre found in the "Literary" versions you read in school and also versions that were not tranlated by Sanskrit scholars etc.

Thank you for the input TatT

D

ScottMalaysia
22 May 2010, 03:42 AM
Jai shree Krishna,

Yeah I kind of wish I used a different title after I had pressed post... none the less what I mean was a translation that was devoid of the Victorian flourishes and poetic metre found in the "Literary" versions you read in school and also versions that were not tranlated by Sanskrit scholars etc.

Thank you for the input TatT

D

Like I said, the Chidbhavananda translation translates the Gita into natural English. From the ones I've seen, I would say either that translation or the one by Eknath Easwaran would be the best.

I've also seen the Qur'an translated into the same style of English, with 'thees' and 'thous', the same way I've seen Gita translations and also a translation of the Rig Veda. Perhaps the translators think that if they make it sound like the King James Bible, then it's more like 'scripture'.

Sahasranama
22 May 2010, 05:35 AM
I think the Gita Press translation will cover it, it's probably the most unbiased. No need to search for more unbiased translations. Better to start reading or to learn sanskrit.

But if you want to read a commentary on the Gita, there will always be some bias. This is not necessarily a bad thing, but you have to keep your thinking cap on. You can download a free commentary on the bhagavad gita of Swami Chinmayananda here: http://www.chinmayauk.org/Resources/Downloads.htm (http://www.chinmayauk.org/Resources/Downloads.htm)

You can find the commentary of Prabhupada easily, probably the commentaries of Ramanuja or Shankara can be found using google.

If you can read Hindi, read this one. It's a very unbiased, Gita Sadhak Sanjivini: http://gitapress.org/Download_Hin_pdf.htm

Darji
22 May 2010, 07:19 AM
Jai shri Krishna,

My comment was to TatT, as he pointed out the title was a little off lol

Thank you all for all the valuable input, and I already have the Gita from gita press already printed and now reading it, again thanks all.

But yes, it is a given in order to understand the original meaning and message is to learn Sanskrit, which I have every intent on doing, not only to understand the scriptures better but to also assure myself of the pronunciation, I'm sure my Anglo-American-Scots accent (I have move around a lot) would not do it justice.

I might just quit the world and move to NorCal to be closer to Swami-ji :)

BryonMorrigan
22 May 2010, 08:33 AM
I was thinking about this last night...

One of the things that helped me to really understand ancient Greek and Roman writings was learning to read Ancient Greek and Latin. There are a lot of translation errors that are both due to bias and misunderstanding.

But when I started learning those languages, I was already in college studying ancient history. I didn't have time to just stop...go learn those languages...then come back to read everything in its original form. So I started using Loeb Classical Library books. See, LCL books have each page in Latin/Greek on one page, and the English translation on the page facing it. That way, you can see the direct translation. If you're still learning the language, you can "check" the translation, rather than trying to translate it from scratch. (*)

Something like that would probably be very useful with Sanskrit texts. For example, let's say I wanted to be able to read the Bhagavad Gita. I could go spend a couple years learning Sanskrit, then start at the beginning and translate it. It'd probably take a while, and I'd probably be more focused on language mechanics and grammar than the meaning involved.

Or, I could read the English translations of certain words or phrases, and consult the original Sanskrit whenever I was unsure of whether the meaning was correctly rendered. For example, in the first part of the BG, there's that whole part where it's just reciting the order of battle and listing the arrayed troops. Do I really need to spend hours poring over that section to make sure that I've translated it correctly? Or can I take the word of the English translation?

_______________________________________________________________

(*) Example: Let's look at Book 12, section 2, of Marcus Aurelius's "Meditations" (aka "Antoninus"). In the original Latin it says, "Deus mentes omnes hisce corporeis vasis, corticibus, sordibus denudatas videt." I've seen this translated as, "God sees the minds of all men bared of the material vesture and rind and impurities." or "With his intellectual part alone God touches the intelligence only which has flowed and been derived from himself into these bodies."

Obviously, there are different ways of interpreting the passage. In addition, both translators make the mistake of misinterpreting the word "Deus" to mean "God (Singular)." Yes, the author used the word in its singular form here, but that was a common turn of phrase for ancient Polytheists. He uses "Deorum" or "Dii" ("the Gods") usually when not beginning a sentence, but "Deus" when starting one. But to translate it as such makes it appear, at least in this sentence, that he is a Monotheist, which is ridiculous. (This happens a lot with modern translations of ancient authors like Plato, Cicero, etc.) Essentially, this is due to the fact that Latin does not have articles the same as English. "A god," "The god" and "God" would all be written as "Deus" in Latin.

So when something seems out of character or strange, like an ancient Polytheist Roman emperor speaking like a Monotheist, then you might want to consult the original text and figure it out yourself.

devotee
22 May 2010, 10:14 AM
Namaste Darji,

It is recommended to have the unbiased translation of BG to have the real picture of what Lord says. However, there is another angle to consider here.

The BG assumes that you are familiar with some of the concepts of the Upanishads and Brahma Sutras etc. If you don't have a little grasp on Advaita then the BG will appear to be filled with conflicting statements (which actually are the highest Truth). So, imo, it would help you if have commentary from someone like Chinmayananda ji.

You need time for allowing the message of BG to percolate deep inside your heart. You need to revisit the verses again and again. You have to have patience.

OM

Darji
22 May 2010, 10:31 AM
Namaste Devotee,

Thank you for the input... I was wondering about this.

As a Vaishnava, what texts should I be looking as besides the BG?

I know Vishnu Purana and the Bhagavata Purana are two. I just don't want to confuse myself further by accidentally reading two puranas that conflict, such as reading a Shiva text.

Should I start at the beginning? With the Rig Veda and Upanishads? to slowly build my knowledge from the Vedas up to the Purana's and then go on to the Mahākāvya's so I can better understand the Ramayana and Mahabharata/ BG?

devotee
22 May 2010, 10:45 AM
As a Vaishnava, what texts should I be looking as besides the BG?

I know Vishnu Purana and the Bhagavata Purana are two.

If your inclination is towards Vaishnavism then these two Puranas are sufficient.


Should I start at the beginning? With the Rig Veda and Upanishads? to slowly build my knowledge from the Vedas up to the Purana's and then go on to the Mahākāvya's so I can better understand the Ramayana and Mahabharata/ BG?

By following this route you are actually on your way to boil the sea ! :) That is not recommended. The Itihasas and Puranas like Ramayana and Mahabharata don't need Veda's knowledge to understand. It is the other way round.

OM

Darji
22 May 2010, 10:51 AM
Thank you Devotee for clarifying... the last thing I want to do is go in with my new found passion and burn myself out in a sprint when the race is a marathon.

Darji
22 May 2010, 10:54 AM
Not to put this person on the spot, but I would love to hear Yajvan-ji's input, he seems incredibly knowledgeable in scriptures. :)

Kumar_Das
23 May 2010, 11:09 AM
I'd just like to offer my words to Darji.

Before you start reading any commentaries. I think it is best that you read one without them.

The Bhagavad Gita is revelation from Bhagwan Himself.

One man, no matter how enlightened, when he comments upon it, it is merely his own understanding of what the Great Gita stands for that he is sharing. It is based upon his own evaluation, judgement and understanding of the verses of which he expounds upon.

Thus, I believe, it is wiser, for one to read the words of Bhagwan as they are first.

Shanti
23 May 2010, 09:25 PM
Namaste Darji,

It is recommended to have the unbiased translation of BG to have the real picture of what Lord says. However, there is another angle to consider here.

The BG assumes that you are familiar with some of the concepts of the Upanishads and Brahma Sutras etc. If you don't have a little grasp on Advaita then the BG will appear to be filled with conflicting statements (which actually are the highest Truth). So, imo, it would help you if have commentary from someone like Chinmayananda ji.

You need time for allowing the message of BG to percolate deep inside your heart. You need to revisit the verses again and again. You have to have patience.

OM

I agree. There is a book by Swami Chinmayananda called "Kindle Life"
http://www.chinmayamission.com/publication-detail.php?id=183

It is a great introductory book of the teachings of Vedanta. It also has a list of books and readings with a suggested timetable. These books include various Puranas, Upanishads, and of course BG.