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smaranam
22 May 2010, 06:25 PM
praNAm

What follows is the result of mercy of shikshA gurus, BhagvAn Shri KrshNa in the heart, and Devi Sarasvati. I also bow down to the internet and all beings behind it as Shri KRshNa brought it about for a purpose.

nārāyaṇaḿ namaskṛtya naraḿ caiva narottamam |

devīḿ sarasvatīḿ vyāsaḿ tato jayam udīrayet || Bhagvat PurAN 1.2.4

Following posts show [relative] timing of appearence of Shri RAmchandra. These same events and avatArs appear again and again in various eras (kalpa, manvantar) . e.g. VarAha appeared on two different occasions. This is shown further on in the next posts.

It shows that Shri RAmchandra appeared in the tretA yuga of the 24th mahAyug (chaturyug cycle) for current manvantar , and it is not a one time occurence. He appears in other manvantars , kalpas, yugs. The same applies to other avatArs of BhagavAn VishNu , like varAha, kRshNa - svayam BhagavAn , buddha, kalki. Further, a passage in Yoga Vashishtha explains this as the norm of existence.

The purANs emphasize on devotion to and the avatArs and lIlAs of BhagavAn VishNu, while explaining shruti. Reading of PurANas takes away the time factor that keeps one bound to the material world.

For reference :
We are in the 28th chaturyuga cycle of 7th Manvantar (of Vaivasvata Manu) of the shweta-varAha kalpa.

The Vedic calculations of Time & creation
http://www.astrojyoti.com/vedictimecalculations.htm

Jai Shri KRshNa

smaranam
22 May 2010, 06:41 PM
om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya



Shri RAm avatAr in the 24th chaturyuga of this manvantara :

ONE : Laghu BhagvatAmrita - by Rupa GoswAmi

"Splendid as a new blade of dhruva grass, and accompanied by Sumitra's two sons and by Bharata, He appeared in the Treta-yug of the 24th chaturyug, as the son of Kausalyā and Dasharatha". (Laghu Bhagavatamrta 1.3.78).

TWO : matsya purAN
http://www.astrojyoti.com/DevanagariFiles/matsya_purana.pdf pg 179

47.240 : ItihAstistrah: smRutAstasya divyah: sambhUtayo dvijah:
mAnushah: sapta yAnyAstu shApajAstA nibodhhata

47.243: EkonaviMshyaM TretAyaM sarvadnyatrAntakrudvibhu:
JAmdagnyastathaa sheshthho VishwAmitrapurah:sarah:

47.244: ChaturviMshe yuge rAmo vasishthhena purodhasA
saptamo rAvaNasyArtho jadnye dasharathAtmajah:

47.245 ashTame dvApare vishNurashTAMvishe parAsharAt
vedavyAsastathA jadnye jAtukaNaryapuh:sarah:

47.246 kartuM dharmavyavasthAnamasurANAM praNAshanam
buddho navamako jadnyee tapasA pushkarednyaNah:
devasundararupeNa dvaipAyanapurah:sarah:

47.247 tasminnaiva yuge jniNe sandhyAshishte bhavishyati
kalki tu vishNusayasah: pArAsharyapurah:sarah:

47.248 dashamo bhAvyasambhUto yAdhyavalkyapurah:sarah:
sarvAMshcha bhUtAMstimitAnpashaNadaMshchaiva sarvashah:

47.249 pragruhitAyudhairviprayeervruttah: shatasahastrashah:

--------------------


THREE: vAyu purAN (ref 70.47-48)

AvatArs of shri vishNu :

Avatar name | preceptor | mahA yug and yug

varAha | *** | 4th

narasiMha | *** | ***

vAmana | *** | 7th , tretA

dattAtreya |mArkanDeya| 10th, tretA

parashurAm son
of jamadagni |vishvAmitra| 19th , tretA

rAmachandra son
of dasharatha |vasishThha | 24th, tretA

vedavyAs, son of
parAshar | jAtukarNa | 28th , tretA

kRshNa, son of
devaki, vasudev | gArgya | 28th, dvApar

kalki, son of
vishNuyashas | yAdnyavalkya | 28th kali




Jai Shri KRshNa

smaranam
22 May 2010, 06:59 PM
om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

From Yog Vashishthha :
Six times has Vishnu incarnated as Parasurama, the son of Renuka. Buddha has incarnated again and again in 100 Kaliyugas. The Tripura and its denizens have been thirty times consumed by the flames. ..... The eternal Vedas will arise suited to the intelligence of every age. They will be understood more and more with the increase of intelligence. So also are worldly actions marvellous. Though the several Puranas are read in different ways, yet they convey one significance only. Every Yuga, Jnana-Sastras will be embodied in the shape of the stainless Ramayana. Like Rishi Valmiki who recited the Ramayana now, there have been 12 Valmikis who brought out the same before. Bharata, the second of the Itihasas, though composed by the noble Vyasa, is considered by some as a Khila (supplement to the Vedas). In this creation, Sri Rama incarnated for the eleventh time on this earth. He will incarnate again in the wealthy house of Vasudeva. ...
All these will be latent in the one Jnana-Atma, like foams in an ocean and will again revive and again disappear.....

===========

The conclusions by those expert in shAstrAs is that purANas narrate histories of this and other universes , all existence, over a gigantic time scale but do not give importance to chronology.
AvatArs are listed but not necessarily in chronological order.
Two sacred texts (purANs for instance) could be relating an appearantly identical story, but could be occurences of the exact same thing in two different kalpas.
The goal is transcendental hearing , understanding and learning - like Vashishthha muni implies in the passage above.

Why astronomical projections to identify itihAs events like Shri rAm's appearance is not enough or valid as the only source :

"The palentary positions mentioned in Ramayan would also have occured multiple times in history prior to the calculated date... 
Moreover the date calculated is heavily dependent on interpretation of sanskrit verses and softwares or method of calculation. That is why everyone gives his own date with day/month/year and time."

Jai Shri KRshNa

smaranam
24 May 2010, 12:55 PM
Conclusion:
In this current manvantar (manu-antar) i.e. period of Vaivasvata Manu, Shri RAm appeared in the tretA yug of 24th chaturyug cycle (1 chaturyug = the 4 yugs = mahAyug). This is clearly stated in various purANs explicitly.

1. Matsya PurAN 47.240 to 249 give a clear picture of Vaivasvata Manu's era (vaivasvate antare - 47.236)
Goes on to describe how NarsiMha annhilated hiraNyakashyapu....then about VAman avatAr and Bali mahArAj....
Matsya P : 47.240 : mentions itihAs and smRti
Matsya P : 47.244: ChaturviMshe (24th) yuge rAmo vasishthhena purodhasA .
.....Goes on to mention VedavyAs, buddha , kalki.

2.VAyu purAN : The table for vaivasvata manu's era, in post #2, is very clear and explicit : vAman in 7th tretA yug, dattatreya in 10th , parshurAm in 19th , rAm in 24th, vedvyAs in 28th tretA yugs ; kRSNa in 28th dvApar, kalki in 28th kali. (given ref : 70.47-48)

VedvyAs is mentioned as appearing in 28th tretA instead of dvApar because in this mahAyug, treta and dvApar overlapped - Shrimad BhAgvatam 1.2.4 (http://srimadbhagavatam.com/1/4/14/en)

3.BramhAnDa purAN also states the same
4.Shrila Rupa Goswami writes this in his Laghu BhagvatAmRt 1.3.78

------------

"There is a ram avatar in every treta yug" - Shrila PrabhupAd. This is a very profound statement, so heartwarming and so true. For all we know, perhaps He does ! This includes avatAr on other planets in other galaxies.
Further, KRshNa is with me right now, and rAm is within Him, so He is here too. I can say KRshNa descended in 2005 , and no one objects.

Bhagavad GitA 4.1 - Krshna says He taught the BG knowledge to VivasvAn (presiding deity of Sun), who told manu who told Ikshvaku. RAm is descendent of Ikshvaku.
Mahabharat Shanti Parva CCCXLIX confirms this as an event of 'a' tretA yug, but does not mention which one.

However, for all practical purposes, the purANs** are telling us explicitly. This happens to be 28 - 24 = 4 mahAyugs + dvApar + some tretA = 18 to 20 million years ago, is when rAm appeared.

**The 18 mahApurANs and others are authored by Shrila VedavyAs who is the literary incarnation of BhagavAn VishNu.

Jai Shri KRshNa

dead_man
27 May 2010, 07:59 AM
om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

From Yog Vashishthha :
Six times has Vishnu incarnated as Parasurama, the son of Renuka. Buddha has incarnated again and again in 100 Kaliyugas. The Tripura and its denizens have been thirty times consumed by the flames. ..... The eternal Vedas will arise suited to the intelligence of every age. They will be understood more and more with the increase of intelligence. So also are worldly actions marvellous. Though the several Puranas are read in different ways, yet they convey one significance only. Every Yuga, Jnana-Sastras will be embodied in the shape of the stainless Ramayana. Like Rishi Valmiki who recited the Ramayana now, there have been 12 Valmikis who brought out the same before. Bharata, the second of the Itihasas, though composed by the noble Vyasa, is considered by some as a Khila (supplement to the Vedas). In this creation, Sri Rama incarnated for the eleventh time on this earth.

Where did you read Yoga Vashista from? I only find Yoga Vashista Sara (abridged) on the internet.

smaranam
27 May 2010, 02:21 PM
Where did you read Yoga Vashista from? I only find Yoga Vashista Sara (abridged) on the internet.

Namaste

I have not read Yog Vashishtha.

This passage above, is from a section of Yog Vashishta that is on the astrojyoti website - the page which explains Vedic Time and its cyclical nature (micro to macro) - hence the relevance to this thread.

http://www.astrojyoti.com/vedictimecalculations.htm

Scrolling down, after the time units are explained, it says :
"The following is an interesting story, told by Rishi Vasistha to Lord Rama, in the great scripture Yoga Vasistha."

Its the story about the crow-yogi that Vasishtha muni is narrating, where the yogi explains how he has seen it all and survived pralay. The last paragraph is where this is from.

Here is the Laghu version on astro Jyoti :
http://www.astrojyoti.com/yogavasistha.htm (contents ->scriptures->index) , but i suppose you want the full version.

There are some members here who are into Yog Vashishtha , one of them is Yajvan Ji. He will be able to help you.

praNAm

ranjitm
18 November 2012, 04:07 AM
Wonderful! I thank you a thousand times for this knowledge :)

Who am i
10 January 2013, 04:44 AM
Hi smarnam

Sorry for late query on this . Related to birth of Lord Rama again and again in different yugas, i have a query. Will it be Lord Naryana( great parmatama) who will be coming again or again or are those atmas who got sarupya mukthi. (those look Similar to Lord with same qualities ).

smaranam
10 January 2013, 12:26 PM
Hi smarnam

Sorry for late query on this . Related to birth of Lord Rama again and again in different yugas, i have a query. Will it be Lord Naryana( great parmatama) who will be coming again or again or are those atmas who got sarupya mukthi. (those look Similar to Lord with same qualities ).

Namaste

What is written here (couple of years ago) is how it was found in the granthas - scriptures.

NArAYaN is ONE, so His avatAr by definition would be Him. I would think an avatar is NArAyaN svayam , - and more so in case of Shri RAmchandra - who is avatAri or pUrNa.

We have svaMsha, vibhinnaMsha, and shaktyavesha avatars for example.

A once-jiva who lost individuality has merged back into NArAyaN and cannot be traced by anyone expect NArAyaN.
The jivas in sArupya, on the other hand, can be distinguished from NArAyaN by the Shrivatsa on His chest - which they will not possess.

However, all i can say is Shri RAm is pUrNa in a sense, i.e. like KRshNa , He is avatAri rather than an avatAr, hence NArAyaN svayam.

Shri RAm used bow and arrow, and will. Did not use/need the sudarshan chakra.
Similarly, KRshNa in Gokul-VrndAvan used His hands, strength and Yoga shakti, not the Sudarshan chakra (which He used only in Mathura-Dwaraka).

Hence KRshNa in Gokul and Shri Ramchandra are avatAris. Devoid of NArAyaN's aishwarya (oppulence), and so that would be the Lord Himself ?



Food for thought: The Rshis were aMsha avatArs of NArAyaN - particularly the Manus , prajapatis. Then we have Veda VyAs who is a partial expansion of VishNu specially appearing to divide the Ved into four parts. Veda VyAs (a partial incarnation) and KRshNa (BhagvAn svayam and pUrNa avatar) were on earth at the same time.

ParshurAm and RAm were here at the same time. ParshurAm being the partial incarnation - relatively speaking.

Devarshi Narad Muni is an avatar and "the mind of Bhagvan" who interacts with Him throughout.

Further in Bhagvad Gita Chapter 10, VibhUti Yog, KRshNa mentions some of His VibhUtis. Some of these can be called avatars under certain conditions - but they would not be Ram.

:o

[I]om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya

smaranam
10 January 2013, 12:40 PM
Wonderful! I thank you a thousand times for this knowledge :)

You are welcome, Ranjit, but we have to be careful - Whom are we thanking ? :)

Yogo Jnana thathA sAnkhyaM VidyA: ShilpAdikarma cha
Vedah: shAstrANi vidnyAnametat sarvaM JanArdanAt
Yoga, knowledge (of AtmA) , sAnkhya, sculpturing, architecture, art, deeds/works/yadnya/yaj~na , Vedas, scriptures, science, all originates and proceeds from that ONE JanArdana.

(Post VishNusahasranama shlok 19, Mahabharat - Bhishma - Yudhishthir saMvAd).

So let us thank Him.

om namo bhagavate vAsudevAya ~