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Paris-Izi
03 June 2010, 05:18 AM
Hello forum. I am very confused about how the condition of being Hijra (or transgendered, in western terminolagy) impacts upon a person seeking God-realization. My understanding concerning God-realization is that this process involves the gradual letting go of all false identifications born out of, and limited by, the ego; the ultimate goal being true indentification with the limitless/infinite soul (individualised reflection of God).
The confusion for me therefore arises from trying to reconcile a Hijra's desire to emasculate themselves with their desire for God-realisation as the emasculation desire certainly appears as a false identification. Afterall the God seekers concern should not surround gender, right?
However, are other factor also involved here in order make this judgement. Does a God realisable capability rather depend on the intentions of the Hijra in question?
I understand through my knowledge of Karma Yoga, that some actions, although beginning life egocentric in nature (i.e. our concern is with the worldly fruits these actions reap), can be transmuted towards Godly ends (i.e. at this point we are no longer concerned with the worldly fruits of these actions; rather our aim is solely in pleasing God through performing these actions). I was wandering can a hijra perform emasculation sole for God in this way (i.e. is emasculation a transmutable action)?
What if by becoming a Hijra, a better, more fuller and loving relationship with God, perhaps even including efforts towards an acsetic practice (involving both celebacy and meditation) takes place?

TatTvamAsi
03 June 2010, 02:50 PM
Hijras, like homosexuals, are in the 'wrong' body so to speak. Their identity inside is that of something other than the body they are in.

I suppose that person's interest in self-realization is dependent on their evolution but I would think that hijras have taken birth too hastily. Sometimes this happens when unfulfilled desires are so strong that the jIvA is pulled back to take another birth quickly.

In other words, homosexuals, hijras etc. are still on their journey. Being emasculated is definitely NOT the same thing as being "above gender". That is like saying someone who has never driven a car has mastered driving because they are not interested in cars. One has to go through the tribulations of manifestation in order to transcend it. There is no free lunch.

yajvan
03 June 2010, 06:53 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté Paris-Izi

Here is one view perhaps you may wish to consider.

It is not so much what you are but that you start the transformation/unfoldment/realization to who you are. One changes along the way.

One way, though meditation, one settles down the mind… The notion is to experience sūkṣma gati. What is that ? Refined, subtle, awareness. This is the direction to God-Consciousness. Yet one must start with turiya¹ ( the 4th) , then to Self-consciousness that is there all the time ( 7x24x365), then one moves to God Consciousness. Just like taking a hot bath we enter 1 foot at a time and get use to the warmth. Said another way one increases in the experience of stabilizing turiya in one's awareness.


So its not so much one's physical makeup or behavior selections or preferences... it is about realizing that no matter what you are it is what is at your core (sārā) that is of most profound interest and value.

praṇām

references

turiya - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2996 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2996)

Advanced reading on turiya - the posts shown above would be good to read first before considering this string: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312)

Avazjan
03 June 2010, 10:09 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté Paris-Izi

Here is one view perhaps you may wish to consider.

It is not so much what you are but that you start the transformation/unfoldment/realization to who you are. One changes along the way.

One way, though meditation, one settles down the mind… The notion is to experience sūkṣma gati. What is that ? Refined, subtle, awareness. This is the direction to God-Consciousness. Yet one must start with turiya¹ ( the 4th) , then to Self-consciousness that is there all the time ( 7x24x365), then one moves to God Consciousness. Just like taking a hot bath we enter 1 foot at a time and get use to the warmth. Said another way one increases in the experience of stabilizing turiya in one's awareness.


So its not so much one's physical makeup or behavior selections or preferences... it is about realizing that no matter what you are it is what is at your core (sārā) that is of most profound interest and value.

praṇām

references

turiya - http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=1822
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2996 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=2996)

Advanced reading on turiya - the posts shown above would be good to read first before considering this string: http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312 (http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=3312)


Namaste.

I seek clarification on your usage of Turiya.

From your post, it seems that you are positing Turiya as a transitory state to higher ones.

Your posts have been a great source of information to me and you are clearly one of the most, if not the most, knowledgeable person on this board, but this appears to contradict what I have learned in other places.

In that Turiya is Tripura Sundari / Lalita / Sri Vidya / Paradevi / Shodashi / Rajarajeswari, the Fourth state beyond waking, dreaming and deep slumber which includes and generates those three yet utterly transcends them. It is my understanding that Turiya is direct realization of parabrahman without subject/object differentiation.

Please expand my awareness and correct my misunderstanding.

Namaste.

Paris-Izi
16 June 2010, 10:25 AM
.Being emasculated is definitely NOT the same thing as being "above gender". That is like saying someone who has never driven a car has mastered driving because they are not interested in cars. One has to go through the tribulations of manifestation in order to transcend it. There is no free lunch.

Namaste. Thank you for your insight. Perhaps when a soul is inclined to manifest as Hijra then more evolution on the material plane is first necessary - only after this can a true spiritual quest for God-realization begin.

For the God-seeker, activity, both worldly and spiritual in nature, is a necessary part of the journey - until we reach our Godly goal, activity is a duty.
Meditation is said to be the Raja of Yoga, but lesser wordly duties are still valuable if done with God in mind. For instance, it is said that marrying and having childrens is rightious duty if we treat our family right and we do this soley to please God. It is also a duty to refrain from violence, theft and lying - again done with God in mind.

My question therefore is, are there not also rightious worldly duties that a Hijra can perform; i.e. does the condition of being a Hijra in any way stop such a person from Godly asperations? Is there anything preventing this person from even partaking in the noble activity of meditation?
Apart from the emasculation act - an act I must admit to not knowing the goodness or badness of - it seems that it will be what happens after this event that will surely detemine is such a soul is going to climb the spiritual ladder in this life.