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SethDrebitko
20 June 2010, 11:54 AM
Is Iskcon its own tradition? Is there an equivalent to Iskcon which has no problem with meat eating. I personally feel that all is God and to distinguish from meat to vegetable is simply partaking in different forms of God.

My problem is that I really truly feel drawn to the global awareness initiative of Iskcon, but am trying to find a place where my non-vegetarian ideals fit in.

SethDrebitko
21 June 2010, 04:49 PM
Doh; Ignore this there is an Iskcon section!

upsydownyupsy mv ss
22 June 2010, 08:22 AM
Is Iskcon its own tradition? Is there an equivalent to Iskcon which has no problem with meat eating. I personally feel that all is God and to distinguish from meat to vegetable is simply partaking in different forms of God.

My problem is that I really truly feel drawn to the global awareness initiative of Iskcon, but am trying to find a place where my non-vegetarian ideals fit in.

Yes, Iskon is its own tradition. Some like me partially disagree and agree with them. Meat eating? :eek: For your kind info, some Hindus are meat eating. Meat eating is forbidden to those who aspire spirituality, because of the hormones and chemicals in it, which may strengthen the body, but weakens the mind, try experiments for months, you'll know the reason for yourself.

ScottMalaysia
22 June 2010, 09:36 AM
ISKCON are a subsect of the Vaishnava sect of Hinduism. Vaishnavism is the sect of Hinduism that worships Vishnu and/or Krishna as the Supreme. There are different subsects of Vaishnavism, generally founded by different people. ISKCON follows the Gaudiya subsect, founded by Bengali saint and social reformer Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (1486-1534). Chaitanya founded his sect mainly as one for sannyasis (those who had renounced the world). The practices of the sect (and the ones that ISKCON follows strictly) are suitable for sannyasis but not so suitable for the rest of society. Sannyasis have no families so they would have time to chant the Hare Krishna mantra 1,728 times per day as ISKCON requires, they are not attached to anything material (as ISKCON devotees are supposed to be) and they would not talk extensively with non-devotees as non-devotees would have no interest in talking to a sannyasi.

So the differences come from one specific subsect of Hinduism founded originally for sannyasis.

Many Hindus are not vegetarian. None of my wife's family are. Most Hindus are also not part of any particular sect (e.g. Vaishnavism, Saivism). Most Hindus worship a variety of Gods but do not see themselves as belonging to any one sect. You will find that most Vaishnava traditions emphasise or require vegetarianism. Shakta sects (those that worship the Goddess as the Supreme) may not require vegetarianism and some even perform animal sacrifices to the Goddess.

If you can, though, try to give up meat. At least stop eating beef, and try to be vegetarian for at least one day a week (Friday is good - many South Indian Hindus observe a vegetarian diet on Fridays). Being vegetarian is not as hard as it seems. There are vegetarian substitues for almost all kinds of meat (vegetarian sausages, mince, burger patties, schnitzels, fried chicken) and many of these taste almost identical to meat. I often eat vegetarian sausages and chips for my dinner.

SethDrebitko
22 June 2010, 11:16 AM
Actually I eat at most one meal of meat a day I can't stand the stuff it has always made me feel ill, and generally foggy minded. While I don't like meat and am myself slowly transitioning to a vegetarian diet, I still personally don't see issue with it.

Thank you very much for your help with this matter. Does anyone happen to know of any truly non sectarian Sanatana Dharma organizations with similar missions to Iskcons. I mostly feel compelled to be apart of something that progresses the faith as a whole throughout the world.

sambya
22 June 2010, 11:23 AM
Chaitanya founded his sect mainly as one for sannyasis (those who had renounced the world). The practices of the sect (and the ones that ISKCON follows strictly) are suitable for sannyasis but not so suitable for the rest of society.

that is not correct . chaitanya did not create an order of sannyasis . he personally took sannyasa under sankaracharya's dasanami sampradaya , but most of his followers were grihastas .

monasticism that one sees in gaudiya vaishnavism presently is not more than 100 years old !

SethDrebitko
22 June 2010, 11:27 AM
Actually I eat at most one meal of meat a day I can't stand the stuff it has always made me feel ill, and generally foggy minded. While I don't like meat and am myself slowly transitioning to a vegetarian diet, I still personally don't see issue with it.

Thank you very much for your help with this matter. Does anyone happen to know of any truly non sectarian Sanatana Dharma organizations with similar missions to Iskcons. I mostly feel compelled to be apart of something that progresses the faith as a whole throughout the world.

ScottMalaysia
22 June 2010, 11:56 PM
Thank you very much for your help with this matter. Does anyone happen to know of any truly non sectarian Sanatana Dharma organizations with similar missions to Iskcons. I mostly feel compelled to be apart of something that progresses the faith as a whole throughout the world.

I know Ramakrishna Mission has centres throughout the world. Srila Prabhupada called them "murghis" because they ate chicken (murgh in Hindi). However, no Hindu organisations except ISKCON go out and proselytize the way ISKCON does. This is because Hindus believe that "Ekam sat viprah bahuda vadanti" (Truth is one, the wise call it by many names). This statement basically means that God can be approached in many different ways and that you shouldn't tell someone that their way of approaching God is wrong. Therefore, most Hindus do not proselytize. If you go to a non-ISKCON temple, you'll find that most, if not all of the devotees are Indian. Some Indian Hindus (like TatTvamAsi on this forum) even believe that it's not possible to convert to Hinduism - one has to be born into it. While this statement is not true and has no supporting verses from the Scriptures, it is common enough amongst Indian Hindus, especially Smartas.

Srila Prabhupada believed that what he was teaching was spiritual science, not religion or a specific set of beliefs. He believed that Krishna Consciousness was science - it is true whether you believe it or not. Therefore, he wished to make everyone aware of this science and he did so by writing books and getting his devotees to distribute them.

I disagree slightly on the issue of proselytization. I don't believe that we should proselytize to Christians, Muslims, Jews or people who are already following a religion. But I do think that we should proselytize to atheists, agnostics and people who are "spiritual but not religious" because these people do not have a religion.

Eastern Mind
23 June 2010, 06:15 AM
Vannakkam Seth:

Firstly, non-sectarian is hard to find. There are of course, those with wider points of view than others. But even wide talking Vedantins such as the Ramakrishna Mission can be adamant about their tolerance. But I'm with Scott in that that is the only one I know of that has a world-wide presence and doesn't proseltyse.

I think it might help if you could define what you are looking for. is it Seva, bhakti, meditation, or interaction with others? Each group usually has a particular focus, and if we know more about what you are looking for, perhaps we can be of better assistance. The Swaminarayan sect, Sai Baba groups, Shirdi Sai, Chinmaya Missions, and more have world wide organisation.

But I disagree with Scott on proseltysing to atheists and agnostics. Often that is their chosen path, and a Hindu distributing a pamphlet would be just as annoying to them as a Jehovah's Witness, a Mormon, or an ISKCONite. They'd lump us all together. I do believe we should make available information for those who ask, which is one of the outcomes of this forum, intended or not.

Aum Namasivaya

SethDrebitko
24 June 2010, 07:58 AM
I think it might help if you could define what you are looking for. is it Seva, bhakti, meditation, or interaction with others?

Well my interest is in finding a group whose goals are to propagate Hinduism without proselytizing. I think that by living a Hindu life, and showing our presence, through clothing or other things, and creating resources to ease people into things.

I don't think we should seek converts like christians, but no one said we could not leave the door open and be ready with our own pamphlet teaching guides. I want to be careful not to funnel people down certain sectarian paths though mostly working people up to edge and letting them decide where to go from there.

I recognize though that I am far from knowledgeable enough in the faith to take anything on like this so I was hoping there would already be something.

sambya
24 June 2010, 12:46 PM
hi seth .

then perhaps ramakrishna mission would suit your purpose . but living the hindu way of life includes dressing , food , lifestyle etc . in ramakrishna mission stress is layed on spiritual practice and god realization than external details . so i guess you might have to personally let them know about your demands to enable them to help you out .

RKM spreads the message of vedanta , which is the central doctrine of hinduism often interpreted in the light of teachings of their founders . they do not proselytize .

redifflal
17 October 2013, 08:12 AM
Vegetarianism being tied to "higher spirituality" is only one particular strand of thought in Sanatan Dharma. The overall theme behind this is "tyag" or renunciation. So in this frame of mind where everyone should be striving towards "how much can I tyag" leaves people with a mindset almost similar to "original sin" in Abrahamic religions; wherein people find themselves developing guilty conscience over doing simple natural things.

Larger society has settled on renouncing meat in general or renouncing beef at least. I guess this is possible to be implemented across a broader spectrum. Still, the emphasis on tyag remains. The one who has renounced beef is above one who hasn't, one who has renounced meat altogether is above the meat-eater who refrains from beef and twice above the unhindered meat-eater. Above them is the one who has renounced sex, a roof over his head, maybe even two square meals a day, etc.

It starts getting to the point of absurdity if you ask me. The path of tyag is not for everyone, so why instill a guilty complex in society at large for not being tyagi enough? There is potential for moksha-prapti in bhog as well. Do not burden the mind of a householder with the idea that sex is only for procreation. Neither husband nor wife will ever truly reach the ideal of highest loving union. Do not burden the nation with the idea of renunciation of meat is a higher calling. India will continue to embarrass itself in the Olympics and other truly global sporting competitions like soccer.

Part of me feels that the percentage of Hindus that were not encumbered by tyagi mentality became much higher after interactions with Abrahamics.

hinduism♥krishna
19 October 2013, 09:26 AM
Namaste ,

In hindu sanatana dharma , non-vegetrian diet is not allowed ! If you want to follow hindu dharma, you should follow the rules of sd strictly . There is no excuse for it ..

All other sects of hindu dharma also don't allow meat eating. However you should follow any other vedic sect other than iskcon, if you really want to know what is sanatana dharma and how to follow it . Because Iskcon doesn't have origin in veda.

Dhanyavad !

Eastern Mind
19 October 2013, 09:46 AM
Do not burden the nation with the idea of renunciation of meat is a higher calling. India will continue to embarrass itself in the Olympics and other truly global sporting competitions like soccer.



Vannakkam: Not sure I understand this. Are you saying vegetarians can't be great athletes? If so, I'd like to dispute it, as there have been many great athletes who were vegetarians.
http://www.mnn.com/food/healthy-eating/photos/9-superstar-athletes-who-dont-eat-meat/joe-namath is just one link for proof.

Aum Namasivaya

Believer
19 October 2013, 10:05 AM
Namaste,

Not sure if the purpose of the above new posts was to "educate" the OP, or to just restart the debate for current members.

The OP and the members who replied earlier have been gone for 2-3 years after attaining enlightenment as a result of their discussions in this forum. :)

And vegetarianism has been discussed in several other threads since then.

Pranam.

PS, You can't put the cart before the horse. Increase in one's devotion would cause him/her to change his/her dietary habits. There is no point in forcing anything on oneself, it must come from within.
http://hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=102982&postcount=18

Eastern Mind
19 October 2013, 12:31 PM
Vannakkam Believer et al: Indeed, there was a 3 year jump there, and the moderators could have deleted any posts based on the 'don't restart old threads' rule. But the new member who joined just now most likely hasn't read through all the previous stuff. That's why I jumped in. But I see your point too.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
19 October 2013, 07:02 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~
namasté


Namaste ,

In hindu sanatana dharma , non-vegetrian diet is not allowed ! If you want to follow hindu dharma, you should follow the rules of sd strictly . There is no excuse for it ..

All other sects of hindu dharma also don't allow meat eating.

Someone should soon inform the aghori's of the ~rule~, no ?

iti śivaṁ

kriyarameeshh
21 October 2013, 04:55 AM
Sri Matre Namaha,

with due respects to all the members on this thread and meaning no offense I can say that eating non vegetarian food is bad for health over a period of time but it is not entirely true that SD doesn't allow eating meat.

What is more important is eating Satvik food and avoiding tamasic food. All vegetarian food is not Satvik

Even from a dharma stand point, there is a reference and I picked it from Kamakoti Mandali website.

mantreNAsaMskR^itaM mAMsaM nAdyAdvipraH kalau yuge |
yajne to prAkR^itaM mAmsamashnIyAdvidhichoditam

But giving up meat even in such cases is described as extraordinarily meritorious..

na mAmsabhakShaNe doSho na madye na cha maithune |
pravR^ittireShA bhUtAnAM nivR^ittistu mahAphalA || [manuH]

Back in India, veg/non veg is an individual choice these days and it is hard to find who are purely vegetarians like those who do not eat mushrooms and the like.

Regards,
Rameeshh