Mantra- what's real what isn't?

[ThouArt]

Namaste:

As a new and "caucasian" Hindu I am seeking seeking and devouring (I might add!) as much information as I can to learn how to practice Sanatana Dharma. As you all know, there is sooo much out there! And it is hard to know what is and what isn't valid when you're new and not blessed with anyone around you practicing or Hindu background...
I am very focused and earnest to pray and mediate properly and practice my religion in the most traditional way I can, within the confines of the United States, at least for now...pilgrimage is in the future
The amount of mantra information is enormous and it is virtually impossible to know what is true and what isn't.
My question is this: there are so many types and purposes of mantra; there also are almost just as many westernized versions of mantra that I would rather stay away from (unless they are respected and allowed as valid prayer). Western Hindu priests market mantra for finding love and wealth or as an aside, faith.
Even though mantra is treated in this way, can they be learned from these western Hindu priests at least as a starting point to begin learning mantras?
I hope my question is understood, this is very important to me!

Peace
ThouArt

[Arjuna]

Namaste:

As a new and "caucasian" Hindu I am seeking seeking and devouring (I might add!) as much information as I can to learn how to practice Sanatana Dharma. As you all know, there is sooo much out there! And it is hard to know what is and what isn't valid when you're new and not blessed with anyone around you practicing or Hindu background...
I am very focused and earnest to pray and mediate properly and practice my religion in the most traditional way I can, within the confines of the United States, at least for now...pilgrimage is in the future
The amount of mantra information is enormous and it is virtually impossible to know what is true and what isn't.
My question is this: there are so many types and purposes of mantra; there also are almost just as many westernized versions of mantra that I would rather stay away from (unless they are respected and allowed as valid prayer). Western Hindu priests market mantra for finding love and wealth or as an aside, faith.
Even though mantra is treated in this way, can they be learned from these western Hindu priests at least as a starting point to begin learning mantras?
I hope my question is understood, this is very important to me!

Peace
ThouArt

Namaste,

Mantras are not supposed to be learned from priests. Either one orders a ritual that priests do for certain deity or prays with his own words, which is better. Or both.

Mantra is associated with INITIATION into specific Hindu lineage and has to be acquired from a Guru. Without initiation (say without being a Hindu) any mantra taken from book or heard from a priest is of no value.

[satay]

Namaste,

Mantras are not supposed to be learned from priests. Either one orders a ritual that priests do for certain deity or prays with his own words, which is better. Or both.

Mantra is associated with INITIATION into specific Hindu lineage and has to be acquired from a Guru. Without initiation (say without being a Hindu) any mantra taken from book or heard from a priest is of no value.

Namaste,
That's not entirely correct. Anyone can chant the maha mantra, panchakshra mantra and many other mantras without being initiated by a guru. Normally, for an indian hindu the mantra could be passed from an elder in the family but what about a non-indian? I think the non indians can simply chant a mantra read in a book. Why can't they and how come it has no value in your opinion?

[Znanna]

I have come across several recordings, online, which any may hear if they choose to listen.

Perhaps consider partaking of this, rather than attempt mimicry and risk debasement?


ZN

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Satay,

Anyone can chant anything they like, but what is the spiritual value? Certain mantras have certain powers, but the greatest power is revealed ONLY when the mantra is received directly from someone who has realized that power (and so on back to the source).

Sanatana Dharma requires direct contact with a living Guru.

The only difference between a mahamantra and any other mantra is its power of salvation, but ALL mantras require some initiation or diksha in order to even have the possibility of full realization!

[saidevo]

Namaste Sarabhanga,



The only difference between a mahamantra and any other mantra is its power of salvation, but ALL mantras require some initiation or diksha in order to even have the possibility of full realization!


Since the term mahamantra is freely used, please add more clarity:

1. Are Aum and the Gayatri the mahamantras you refer to? What are the other mahamantras that can be chanted without initiation? Are the mahavAkyAs the same as mahamantras?

2. Does the pancakshara mantra (aum namah shivaya) or the mantra aum namo narayana require initiation?

3. Does any spiritual benefit accrue by continuously listening to a recorded mantra? In this case, after a few initial moments, the minds starts to repeat what is heard.

4. In any case, I think, the bija mantras are strictly NOT to be chanted without initiation, but then there are some puja mantras that does involve chanting some bija mantras during a puja.

5. A person receiving a diksha from a Guru receives a personal mantra. Can he chant other mantras in addition to the personal mantra?

6. Swami J says that so-ham is a very good mantra for meditating on. What other mantras can be meditated on without initiation?

7. The Gayatri mantra these days is chanted by several men and women cutting across religion and creed. Many of our gurus also support this popular action. What is your opinion on this?

[Arjuna]

Namaste,
That's not entirely correct. Anyone can chant the maha mantra, panchakshra mantra and many other mantras without being initiated by a guru. Normally, for an indian hindu the mantra could be passed from an elder in the family but what about a non-indian? I think the non indians can simply chant a mantra read in a book. Why can't they and how come it has no value in your opinion?

Sarabhanga already had explained the situation perfectly. I subscribe to what he said.

[Sudarshan]

A mantra must be ideally received from a fully enlightened master.

If not possible, it must be received from a guru who has completed axara laxa of the specified mantra. ( that is one who has repeated the mantra laxam times the number of syllables, for Gayatri it is 24 lakh)

If not possible, it must be recived from a guru who has done axara laxa of the Gayatri Mantra, which is the king of all mantras.

If not possible, it must be recieved from a practioner of the mantra or a regular practitioner of the Gayatri mantra.

If not possible, one can learn it from a medium and accept God as the guru for the time being, and obtain regular initiation as soon as available.

Guru not only transmits the mantra, but divine energy along with it - it is not the same as learning from a book. The distinction must always be remembered. One mantra should be sufficient for anybody if the sole aim is the final goal and all time should be devoted on it, instead of chanting several mantras at random. ( it also depends on the specific practice, some forms of Yoga require different mantras at different levels or plexuses)

[Arjuna]

1. Are Aum and the Gayatri the mahamantras you refer to? What are the other mahamantras that can be chanted without initiation? Are the mahavAkyAs the same as mahamantras?

Pranava & Gayatri are strictly for Dvijas alone. No one can use them without a proper initiation.

Some Scriptures prescribe for non-Brahmanas usage of auM (chaturdasha svara) or hrIM as the Pranava. Mantras with OM, svAhA and shrIM are strictly prohibited for shudras.

Mahavakyas are statements from Shruti which are meant for apperception and NOT for chanting.


2. Does the pancakshara mantra (aum namah shivaya) or the mantra aum namo narayana require initiation?

All vidyas of Narayana absolutely require diksha.

Shiva-panchakshari (and NOT Shadakshari with Pranava) may be chanted even without initiation, though it is highly recommended to have it from Guru or jangama.
Shiva's grace is so great that just be coming in touch with any of the 8 avaranas one gets His blessing. That is why even a shudra can worship Shivalinga, chant Panchakshari and wear rudraksha.


3. Does any spiritual benefit accrue by continuously listening to a recorded mantra? In this case, after a few initial moments, the minds starts to repeat what is heard.

This solely depends on bhAva. There is no benefit of listening per se, but if done with bhakti to God it brings blessing.
In any case, shravana (devotional listening) is totally different from japa.


4. In any case, I think, the bija mantras are strictly NOT to be chanted without initiation, but then there are some puja mantras that does involve chanting some bija mantras during a puja.

Ritual puja is to be done ONLY by priests and those who have authority from a Guru or acharya.
Common people can order puja from priests and themselves worship God in a simple manner without any mantras. As Krishna said in Gita, "offer me a leaf or a flower."


5. A person receiving a diksha from a Guru receives a personal mantra. Can he chant other mantras in addition to the personal mantra?

There is no general rule. Depends upon Guru and tradition.

There are some dikshas that give the right to use ANY mantras. However even then it is suggested to use mantras only of that deity with which one is specifically connected.

But for nitya-japa only those mantras are used which are given by Guru. Or the Deity.


6. Swami J says that so-ham is a very good mantra for meditating on. What other mantras can be meditated on without initiation?

Again, ajapa-vidya also requires an upadesha from a Guru or a Yogi for its practice.

ANY MANTRA HAS SENSE ONLY WHEN IT IS ACQUIRED FROM THE GURU.
Without initiation one may and is supposed to pray and meditate. And seek guidance from acharyas.


7. The Gayatri mantra these days is chanted by several men and women cutting across religion and creed. Many of our gurus also support this popular action. What is your opinion on this?

Gayatri must not be used in such a way.

Mahanirvana-tantra gives Brahma-gayatri which is allowed for anyone (after an upadesha or diksha):

parameshvarAya vidmahe.
paratattvAya dhImahi.
tanno brahma pracodayAt..

[satay]

But considering ThouArt's post...what exactly a non-indian hindu to do? Should he/she not recite any mantra during meditation unless it is received directly by a guru that is connected to the source?

I agree with what sarabhanga and arjuna are saying but what about those who have no access to a guru that is connected to the source? Should they not meditate at all?

Isn't Just reciting the syllable OM a mantra? why can't one just chant OM while meditating? will that have no value if not recieved from a guru?

Maybe we are using the term 'mantra' too loosley? e.g. I recite some mantra that I never received from the elders in the family or from a guru. Is it correct that then reciting these mantras have no spiritual value?

[Arjuna]

But considering ThouArt's post...what exactly a non-indian hindu to do? Should he/she not recite any mantra during meditation unless it is received directly by a guru that is connected to the source?
I agree with what sarabhanga and arjuna are saying but what about those who have no access to a guru that is connected to the source? Should they not meditate at all?

Namaste,

I do not understand what is the need of mantra for meditation. One may meditate and pray to Shiva, Devi or Hari without using any mantras. What's the problem? I guess the issue is with curiosity and not spirituality. Mantras seem to be exotic and having some magical power. And it is indeed better to pray and meditate than to chant mantras with such kind of intention.

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~

Namaste,

I do not understand what is the need of mantra for meditation.

Namaste Arjuna,
This notion of mantra for meditation... a specific vibration that resinates with the SELF, with the individual. Of this there is great import. If there is a desire to do japa, or pray, this is fine too.

The goal is to allow the mind to settle down , to transcend as it were, so one experiences pure consciousness.

If one wishes to practice bhakti , and the fullness of devotion to
ones Ishta, one may also be in fullness of Him/Her ( Saguna Brahman).... That said, this mantra is of all different kinds, vibrations, lengths. To aquire one from a dikhsa guru is a blessing.
It is his/her wisdom that is passed on to you. The wisdom of what is right for you for this place and time.

This Mantra and transcending is yajya... more if there is interest.

pranams,

[sarabhanga]

If I recite some mantras that I never received from the elders in the family or from a guru, is it correct that reciting these mantras has no spiritual value?

It is not that mantra without diksha has no value, but rather that the effect is far greater when the mantra is properly transmitted. And the full power of a mantra (especially the various mahamantras) will not be realized without diksha from a guru who received the same diksha from his guru, who had it equally from his own guru in a continuous parampara of living vibration right back to the original source of the revelation.

A mantra on paper is effectively dead, and its true vibration can only be resurrected by one who is already inspired by the very same breath.

[Arjuna]

This notion of mantra for meditation... a specific vibration that resinates with the SELF, with the individual. Of this there is great import. If there is a desire to do japa, or pray, this is fine too.

What is the intention behind a desire to do japa without having got a mantra? An experiment?
Mantra is the Word which is transmitted from Divine realm into mundane through a succession of Gurus (subdivided into 3 oghas). Outside this context "mantra" is a mere word like "Coca-cola" or "Adobe Illustrator." The heart of mantra, the VIDYA, is transmitted only directly, it is not contained in written letters which one sees in a book or website.

Nobody prohibits anyone to repeat any word, including words of mantras. But without a Diksha these are words only, outer shell lacking the indwelling Presence.

Meditation can be done without any mantras. If one wants an object, the whole world is there! If one wants a repeating process, breathing is fine.

Prayer is not equal to mantra-japa. And prayer requires no initiation, no upadeshas and no tradition. As one speaks to his/her beloved, he/she can speak to God.


The goal is to allow the mind to settle down, to transcend as it were, so one experiences pure consciousness.

In order to transcend one has to be the witness of the mind. Settling mind down won't help. Active mind is dominated by rajas, passive — by tamas. But Atman is untouched by both.


If one wishes to practice bhakti , and the fullness of devotion to ones Ishta, one may also be in fullness of Him/Her ( Saguna Brahman).... That said, this mantra is of all different kinds, vibrations, lengths. To aquire one from a dikhsa guru is a blessing.
It is his/her wisdom that is passed on to you. The wisdom of what is right for you for this place and time.

One cannot "practice" bhakti. It is like saying "making love" which implies just a physical act.
Bhakti just happens or doesn't happen. That's it.
It is impossible to practice loving a woman or man, and it is even less possible to practice loving God!

[satay]

It is not that mantra without diksha has no value, but rather that the effect is far greater when the mantra is properly transmitted. And the full power of a mantra (especially the various mahamantras) will not be realized without diksha from a guru who received the same diksha from his guru, who had it equally from his own guru in a continuous parampara of living vibration right back to the original source of the revelation.

A mantra on paper is effectively dead, and its true vibration can only be resurrected by one who is already inspired by the very same breath.

namaste,
Thank you. I understand now.

[sarabhanga]

A mantra on paper is effectively dead, and its true vibration can only be resurrected by one who is already inspired by the very same breath.

There are methods for instilling prolonged (virtually eternal) life into manu-script (i.e. hand-written or wisely inscribed) mantra, which thereby becomes an effective yantra for repeated subsequent evocations of the original deity or logos.

And there is benefit in reading even printed translations of divine scriptures and wise commentaries; but when the goal is so lofty as immortal eternal existence without suffering mortal incarnation, then the aim (along with the archer and the arrow) must be perfect in every dimension.

[ThouArt]

Namaste:

Mmmm, yes. Thank you all for your replies. As you all can understand, what I refer to as "westernized Hinduism" is rife with ready-made mantra, malas of every sort and for every reason; chakra this and chakra that...again which is something I prefer to avoid.
However, as a "new" Hindu, it is difficult to feel like I am growing in my knowledge of my religion when in reality I truly am; I am studying and learning and my faith is strong. It feels good to me to practice japa, use mantra for concentration, connection to God. I wait for diksha!
My direction in my faith is my own as I have no guru, but understand that comes with time.

Thank you again

ThouArt

[yajvan]

Hari Om
~~~~~~


In order to transcend one has to be the witness of the mind. Settling mind down won't help. Active mind is dominated by rajas, passive — by tamas. But Atman is untouched by both.


Namaste Arjuna, your post has stimulated several thoughts.
Here are few things I consider and practice:

Meditation is vehicle to allow the SELF to realize the SELF by itSELF. This can be done in many ways. Mantra (sound) is one way as there are many other techniques.

Transcending is a natural process of allowing the mind to go to 'more and more' - and the Absolute is more then the most.
Settling down the mind is the RESULT of meditation, not the act of meditation. Doesn't matter if the mind is active... the mantra is that sound that allows the mind to go inward and cultures the nervous system (the village of the senses) to function in a very unique way. This prepares one for Turiya consciousness.
Once the march is inward, then the mind-body settles down to experience finer levels of consciousness. Witnessing is not a pre-requisite.
This is beyond controlling the mind... (I am not suggesting this is what you have inferred). For many a sadhu, the notion of control and restraint has thought to be the way to the Divine. Through proper meditation, the mind becomes concentrated or one pointed, vs. trying to whip the mind into forcing it to stay focused. This is the wisdom of the tradition of masters who pass along the simplicity of this teaching.

The key is 'withdraw, then withdraw from the withdrawal' - that is rest and activity. All of creation functions in this fashion. Some think just withdraw, and that is it. Sri Krsna is quite clear in his direction 'yogastah kuru karmani' (BG 2.48)- established in yoga or union of the Divine, perform action.... and 'be without the 3 guna's ... possessed of the SELF' (BG 2.43)

Regarding Mantra shastra - receiving a mantra from a guru is ideal and brings with it authority and shakti. I concur that when ever possible this is best. Yet, Japa and Meditation are two different techniques, especially if one is using mala beads along with japa.

Last , comments on bhatki - once established in the SELF, (Atman) then one is past the small small events of the world and of the ego... then full attention can be given to HIM or HER.
If one is caught up with what he is not, and not established in the SELF, then the devotion, albeit well intentioned, is less then effective and waxes and wanes with the changes of time.

pranams,

[orlando]

Namaste all.
One must consider that every hindu traditions have different ideas about the same thing:for example mantra-japa.Some hindu traditions are more indulgent than other traditions.
I think that the pravana mantra Om is ok for all the hindus and even "ardha-hindu"(half-hindu).
http://www.pondichery.com/french/om/omd1.gif

Please read what Sivaya Subramuniyaswamy says in his book Living with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Culture.
By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/lws/lws_ch-09.html

Thursday
LESSON 60
Japa: Recitation
Now we shall focus on japa, recitation of holy mantras, the ninth niyama. Here again, a guru is essential, unless only the simplest of mantras are recited. The simplest of mantras is Aum, pronounced "AA, OO, MMM." The AA balances the physical forces when pronounced separately from the OO and the MMM, as the OO balances the astral and mental bodies. The MMM brings the spiritual body into the foreground. And when pronounced all together, AA-OO-MMM, all three bodies are harmonized. Aum is a safe mantra which may be performed without a guru's guidance by anyone of any religious background living on this planet, as it is the primal sound of the universe itself. All sounds blended together make the sound "Aum." The overtone of the sounds of an entire city would be "Aum." In short, it harmonizes, purifies and uplifts the devotee.

One might ask why a guru is important to perform such a simple task as japa. It is the shakti of the guru, of the Gods and the devas that give power to the mantra. Two people, a civilian and a policeman, could say to a third person, "Stop in the name of the law." The third person would only obey one of them. The one who had no authority would not be listened to. In this example, the policeman had been initiated and had full authority. Therefore, his mantra, "Stop in the name of the law," seven words, had the desired effect. The person who had not been initiated said the same words, but nobody paid any attention to him. Now, this does not mean one can choose a guru, study with the guru, become accepted by the guru, feign humility, do all the right things and say all the right words, become initiated, receive the mantra and then be off into some kind of other activities or opt for a more liberal path. The guru's disdain would diminish if not cancel the benefits of the initiation, which obviously had been deceptively achieved. This is why siddhanta shravana (choosing your path carefully) and mati (choosing your guru carefully, being loyal to the sampradaya, to your guru and his successor or successors and training your children to be loyal to the sampradaya) are the foundation of character that the first fifteen restraints and practices are supposed to produce.

Mantra initiation is guru diksha. Traditionally, the family guru would give mantra diksha to the mother and the father and then to the young people, making the guru part of the family itself. There is no way that mantras can be sold and be effective. There is no way that the diksha of mantra initiation, which permits japa, could be effective for someone who was not striving to fulfill the first seventeen of the yamas and niyamas. Any wise guru would test the devotee on these before granting initiation. There is no way a mantra can be learned from a book and be effective. Therefore, approach the guru cautiously and with a full heart. When asked if you are restraining yourself according to the ten yamas, know that perfection is not expected, but effort is. And if you are practicing the first seven niyamas, know that perfection is not expected here either, but regular attentiveness to them is. You, the guru, your family and your friends will all know when you are on the threshold of mantra diksha, which when performed by an established guru is called guru diksha.

Now please read what he says in his book Merging with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Metaphysics:

Oftentimes japa and chanting are the ardha-Hindu or non-Hindu's first introduction to Sanatana Dharma. An ardha-Hindu is often one who has been given a Hindu first name. It is our experience over the last fifty years that their japa has little effect unless they make the full commitment to becoming stalwart members of the Hindu religion and join a mature community. Those who are inside a department store handling and purchasing the merchandise and those outside looking through the window at the same merchandise are two different groups. Ardha means half, and ardha-Hindus are those who have come half way to making a full commitment and are still making up their mind. They are still on the outside looking in. Their japa doesn't have much power until they bring other aspects of their life into line with the Hindu Dharma.

For the non-Hindu who has not made a commitment, the universal mantra Aum is the most significant and precious of all mantras. This can be chanted by those of all religions, without restriction. The sounds of a city make "Aum." A child at birth says "Aum." A mother giving birth says "Aum." The last breath of a dying person is "Aum." Even the cows say "Aum." Aum is the mantra of Lord Ganesha. All are striving for His holy feet. Those who are struggling with the lower nature, those who have not made a commitment to the Sanatana Dharma, a commitment which for the newcomers to the fold could be verified by their Hindu name on their passport, should all chant Aum.

I suggest you all to read the whole chapter The Yoga of Incantation at http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_ch-23.html

Regards,
Orlando.

[orlando]

Namaste all.
I will quote other things from the book Merging with Siva, Hinduism's Contemporary Metaphysics by Sivaya Subramuniyaswamy.
By http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/mws/mws_cgz_canto-09.html

THE SEVENTIETH APHORISM

To aid in the depolarization and transmutation of creative forces, certain mantras are chanted. These logically concentrate the conscious mind, harmonize its subconscious and magnetize the brain. This draws the creative forces from the instinctive to the intellectual and superconscious regions.

Mantras, or incantations, are a study in themselves, however it is possible to explain the use of one of these mantras that will do the most in the depolarization and transmutation process. This mantra harmonizes the physical body with the mental and spiritual forces. Sound A (pronounced AH), and center the sound in the solar plexus region of the body. Next intone U (pronounced OO), and center this sound through the throat area. After that, intone M (pronounced MMM), sending this vibration through the cranium by placing the front teeth tightly together. First chant them separately, then blend the sounds together, forming AUM. This mantra is the essence of sound itself. All sounds blended together intone AUM. Listen to the sum total of all the noises of a big city, and you will hear the AUM, as in a seashell or the ocean waves. This is only the manifestation of creation from the creative power. As you intone these sounds, you are releasing your creative energy into your creative centers in the brain. Then they are allowed to pour forth, back through your mental, emotional and physical body, to create a new world for you.

THE SEVENTY-FIRST APHORISM

The letters A-U-M, when correctly chanted, transmute the instinctive to the intellectual, and the instinctive-intellectual to the superconscious. Direct cognition will then be attained.

Aum is the universal mantra which can be performed safely by the initiated and the uninitiated alike, under any condition, in any circumstance, whether the body is clean or dirty. It will heighten consciousness by harmonizing the physical with the mental and spiritual when chanted correctly. The Aum mantra will lead you to the guru, and when cognition has been attained, upliftment of consciousness to the fourth chakra, Saiva diksha, or initiation into deeper mantras, would be the next unfoldment on the path to enlightenment.

THE SEVENTY-SECOND APHORISM

The A-U-M harmonizes the physical body with the mind, and the mind with the intuitive nature.

Here again we can see the great benefits of the mantra Aum. It in itself is the ultimate psychiatrist. It in itself is the sound of the universe, the sound of a city in action, the sound at birth, the sound at death. Listen to the sounds anyplace, anywhere blended together and you will hear the Aum. While listening, mentally say the sound Aum and feel body, mind and the Godness within you blending as one.

THE SEVENTY-THIRD APHORISM

The Aum placed before or after a word adds power and concentrated forces to the word.

When you are encouraging someone and are saying those encouraging, uplifting words, think "Aum." The vibration that you will create by doing this within yourself goes to him, adds power to your words and uplifts him as it is uplifting you.

THE SEVENTY-FOURTH APHORISM

The Aum projected through thought after or before a spoken word adds concentrated force to the spoken word.

You can project "Aum" mentally to a loved one in a far-off place. Each of the intonations has a color. Those colors blended together make one complete thought form which travels faster than the speed of life.



Regards,
Orlando.

[Znanna]

And, what about merging with Shakti?



ZN
/just asking

[atanu]

And, what about merging with Shakti?



ZN
/just asking

Namaste ZN,

At Chidambaram Lord dances to the Lady. At Tiruvannamalai the Lady merges with the Lord. Actually, the gender idea is just that, an idea. And is it possible to really merge with Tsunami? It is, however, possible to merge with the placid one (just joking).


Om Namoh Durge

[atanu]

All gurus (here in this site and elsewhere) more or less agree that mantra is to be had from a guru only.

But what about Avaduta who had no living guru?

SIVÁPARÁDHA-KSHAMÁPANA - STOTRAM


--------------------

I am not able to perform the duty (consisting or rituals) prescribed in the Smøtis since it is beset at every step with abstruse expiatory rites (for defective as well as non-performance). Much less is my ability to perform the duty prescribed for the twice-born (especially Brahmans) by the Srutis (Vedic injunctions) leading to the essential path of the realisation of Brahman. There is no desire (in me) for (knowing and performing) dharma. Nor have I any idea about listening to the import to the Vedas from the Guru and reflection on it. What (object) remains there for me to meditate upon leading to Self-realisation? (5)


------------------

Contemplating Siva in mind, immense wealth was not given (as dáman) to the twice-born (Bráhmans); oblations in lakhs along with the utterance of the mystical syllables of mantras meant for you were not offered in the mouth of Agni (the oblation-bearer); austerities consisting of vows, japa (repetition of sacred mantras) and restraints along with the chanting of the Rudra-mantras and of the Vedas-were not done (sitting) on the bank of the Ganges. (8)


------------------

I do not think about Sañkara. He is in the heart (charming), to be realised through Vedánta, self-luminous in the lotus of the heart, the truly existent, the embodiment of peace, to be realised in the mind-lotuses of all Sages, transcending the states of waking dream and deep sleep and beyond the three gunas. (11)

Concentrating the mind with unflinching devotion on God (Hara), is the only effective means to Salvation.
Of what use are other activities? For salvation, direct (all) your steady (pure) thoughts on Hara (Siva) whose head is illumined by the Moon who is the destroyer of Cupid, the bearer of the Ganges and the (auspicious) bestower of happiness, whose neck and (pair of) ears are decked with serpents, from whose eyes shot forth the Fire (for burning Káma) who wears the beautiful dress consisting of the elephant's hide and who is the essence (strength) of the three worlds. (12)

--------

[sarabhanga]

But what about Avaduta who had no living guru? Siváparádha-Kshamápana Stotram ...

The Shivaparadakshamapana was composed by Shri Shankaracarya, who certainly had his own living Guru! There is no Avadhuta (except Dattatreya himself) who attained that state without the grace of a living Guru! And even the Guru of Gurus, Shri Dattatreya, at first sought guidance and learned from personal experience of 24 (natural) teachers before realizing His own true nature as perfectly Avadhuta!

[atanu]

The Shivaparadakshamapana was composed by Shri Shankaracarya, who certainly had his own living Guru! There is no Avadhuta (except Dattatreya himself) who attained that state without the grace of a living Guru! And even the Guru of Gurus, Shri Dattatreya, at first sought guidance and learned from personal experience of 24 (natural) teachers before realizing His own true nature as perfectly Avadhuta!


True. The very next paragraph in Shivaparadakshamapana says the following:

What is the use of all this wealth (vehicle) elephants and horses, of a kingdom acquired, of children, wives, friends, and cattle, of a (beautiful) body or a house? Realising all this to be perishable in a moment the mind is to be turned away from them. For realising your own-Self, following the Guru's advice, repeatedly worship the Lord of Párvatè (Siva). (13)



But the Guru is not a body. And Dattatreya is there in all of us as the essence of Treya. And the silent Self, in the form of Dakshninamurti is the Guru of Gurus. Isn't it.

However, I am not saying that Guru is not required. What I have some observation on is that: Who has been born and who has died? Any such thing is ASAT and obviously cannot be a guru (may be such a person can be a teacher).


Om Namah Shivayya

[sarabhanga]

Namaste Atanu,

Rudravatara Dakshinamurti is the Svamin Guru Brahmacarishu.

Rudravatara (Uttaramurti or Vamanamurti) Dattatreya is the Naga Guru Avadhuteshu.

[atanu]

Namaste Atanu,

Rudravatara Dakshinamurti is the Svamin Guru Brahmacarishu.

Rudravatara (Uttaramurti or Vamanamurti) Dattatreya is the Naga Guru Avadhuteshu.


यो देवानां प्रथमं पुरस्ताद्विश्वाधिको रुद्रो महर्षिः। हिरण्यगर्भं पश्यत जायमान स नो देवः शुभयास्मृत्या संयुनक्तु॥


Thank You Sarabhanga Ji.