sadācāra - Which ones?

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Many posts as of late have been discussing sadācāra or a proper conduct such as yama and niyama

sadācāra - virtuous conduct , good manners , well conducted, well mannered
carya ( sounds like char-aya) - to be practised or performed
sat - good or honest or wise or respectable
ācārya - 'knowing or teaching the ācāra or rules' , a spiritual guide or teacher
ācāra - conduct , manner of action , behaviour , good behaviour , good conduct
Hence a sadācārin , or vimala-bhrājat-sadācārin is one having 'having pure, bright, good conduct' .

What do you think of sadācāra ? Which ones are important to you and which ones do you gravitate towards?
Which ones do you think others ( our society) may need to practice¹ more intently ? Which ones do not stick to you ?

praṇām

words

There are 6 usually listed out as 'core' practices for all 4 varṇa-s (class of men , tribe , order , caste )

sama - even-ness of behavior, balanced; full , complete , whole , entire ; I like sa+mā meaning ' together with lakṣmi' or happy , prosperous
dama - self-command , self-restraint , self-control
uparāma - giving up, ceasing , stopping , desisting from say wrongful habits. Yet it can also be giving or dāna, the act of offering; dānanaṃdā , to offer a gift
samādhi - as just one word suggests meditation , or contemplation suggesting dhyāna i.e. meditation , reflection , especially profound or abstract meditation v.s. daily thinking or planning.
śraddhā - faith
titikṣa - patience endurance , forbearance. They say titikṣa (patience) is the daughter of dharma

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~


namasté


I wrote,


What do you think of sadācāra ? Which ones are important to you and which ones do you gravitate towards? Which ones do you think others ( our society) may need to practice¹ more intently ? Which ones do not stick to you ?
I thought to offer the following POV:
I think the blossoming of sadācāra is required for the advancement of a society to live together in harmony. We as a total society have many afflictions or kliṣṭa-s¹. I think many are self induced, but not all.

To develop our own selves we move from the status of paśu¹ to parajāti or highest (para) form of existence ( jāti ). What other form of birth on this good earth has this type of opportunity offered to them? This I do not know.

It is the possibility of being this sadācārin (having pure, bright, good conduct) that one brings dignity to our real nature of Being or sattā. It seems the opportunity is to great to pass-up, no?

praṇām

words

affliction = kliṣṭa-s such as torment , afflicted , distressed
paśu - any animal or brute or beast contemptuously applied to a man or humans.

[goodlife]

small nitpick. isnt it Sadachar or good moral conduct?
i agree with rest of your post. we need to inculcate sadachar and sanskar for advancement of society to live together inharmony.

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~


namasté goodlife,


small nitpick. isnt it Sadachar or good moral conduct?
i agree with rest of your post. we need to inculcate sadachar and sanskar for advancement of society to live together inharmony.

Yes, what you offer is agreeable to the definition (from post 1):

sadācāra - virtuous conduct , good manners , well conducted, well mannered

praṇām

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~


namasté

How does one think about this. A person acts in a ill-behaved way.
Then two others are talking about the virtues of this ill-behaved act.
One says to another, ' I cannot fault that person because I do the same exact thing' .

How can we view this?

A fault or blemish (doṣa) in one person if found in one's self is therefore acceptable?
If that blemish is discussed then the person talking is a hypocrite - finding the wrong in another but not in himself?
If the blemish is discussed then the person talking is obligated to change his behavior?
It is just not proper to talk of another's blemish?
It just does not matter.What is right thinking on this matter? What is good conduct (sadācāra) as you see it?

praṇām

[NayaSurya]

Yajvan, as you know I am a fool...but I do enjoy your posts most of all. Because you state so beautifully the human condition and the internal questions we each face.



Good conduct is not based upon others actions. You may see another behaving badly. If their conduct belongs to you, you may even correct them.

What I mean by "belonging to me" is when referring to children. As a parent, it is our duty to correct the poor conduct of our children. So that they learn to do right.

But others? This is not so easy. As we all are on our own multifaceted path with our own level of development.

We see a child pick his nose in the middle of the store...he's very little...we remove his hand...but he picks on. The parents all laugh as we know this moment well...

This moment is echoed through our lifetimes. What seemed appropriate at the time, many years later...with a full wealth of experience and knowledge seems very ignorant indeed. Such is growth.

We are all as children...working towards the higher goal.

It's not so hard for us normal folks, just mucking through life to behave mostly properly. We returned a locket on the fourth of july, we found as we walked back through Holiday World after the fireworks.

It was the right thing to do. It wasn't based on the people around us as the barbarian has a tendency to take for survival...and we live amongst them.

But, just because it is acceptable to them...never makes it right for us.

I live in a small town. When we had the ice storm two years ago...our power for the entire town was out for a week. I went to town to try to find a place to even get bread...not one place had food.

It was horrible!

But, then I see that several pick up trucks had pulled infront of our pharmacy (Rite Aid) and turned their front headlights on to luminate the store. I was so proud thinking, people will get their medicines.

Then I realized. The trucks were lighting the store for a huge semi tractor trailor of Bud Light.

My town, had no fuel...because the pumps were electic...had no bread...every loaf taken and no trucks could get to us....and here precious fuel and effort was being put into off loading ....beer.

This one story will tell you a lot about my small town. 10 churches 10 beer joints...0 book stores.

This society is inundated with alcohol in all forms. I stay steadfast, because what is acceptable, even by the majority in a society isn't always acceptable for me or my family.

A fault or blemish (doṣa) in one person if found in one's self is therefore acceptable?

Never.

If that blemish is discussed then the person talking is a hypocrite - finding the wrong in another but not in himself?

This is why we should probably avoid talking about a person's individual flaws unless, we ourselves...are perfected...unless you own their behavior such as with a child or close family relative.

If the blemish is discussed then the person talking is obligated to change his behavior?

Wouldn't it be so easy if this were true? It doesn't work mostly.

Unless, the person is one whom you have responsibility over, such as your child. Then, there's hope.

But, I do believe...if you had a friend who was behaving very very poorly and you came from a place of love, you may be able to help that person. But, you would have to be one which they saw as having a higher level of growth therefore you hold some amount of respect with the individual.


It is just not proper to talk of another's blemish?

Rarely is it proper. Even my own sister, this would be useless. I have two sisters. One is very mentally ill. The other sister and I used to find solace in venting to each other about her. But, as I have grown up, I could no longer tolerate this constant state of two sided behaviour. We talked about her, then went to parties and were civil to her. Mostly because she is so ill...nothing can help her. But, in this action I was harming myself. It did no good to vent...only caused me to become more angry with her. I broke away from this and began living without harming this ill sister in any way. Once I did this...I received such a blessing to my life! If we can not help someone, we should not hurt them either.



It just does not matter

Does it?

Sometimes it does.

If you know someone is unstable and could possibly hurt someone you should talk to anyone that would listen. If you know this person with the bad behavior is planning to rob another...or you find them with something that does not belong to them.

If someone were spreading gross misrepresentations to innocents who were unaware, and you possessed the truth.

Anytime you become aware that a person's bad behavior could impact another in a harmful way...wouldn't it be our duty to try to help?



It just does not matter

Sometimes it doesn't.

If this person is doing something and you have no knowledge of it. You do not own this person's behavior such as with your children...and this person...is truly ignorant in all ways about what they do.

Then it's best to just leave them in peace and move on. They only harm themselves...and when you interfere, you only harm yourself.


The secret to having better relationships, is truly found in the ability to decipher which things we should help with, and which things we should not.

I have known many many people over my life time. From all sorts of different beliefs and lifestyles. In all that time, the things which troubled me most was this thing right here.

[NayaSurya]

We've been gone again celebrating Summer so I couldn't manage to write this properly till now. But, forgive me Beloved Yajvan, my simple minded ignorance seems to always derail very important posts which you make.

Reading your words often enriches my life so much, I know it must others. From now on I just read your posts though so that they are not disrupted and tainted by the fool<3

Had thought about deleting the above, because it is a handbook for dwelling within the mundane. But, understanding that I am perhaps not the only Jada who continues to muck through this physical world waiting for it to fall away...I will leave it for those few souls.

Hari om<3

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;

Another quality of the sadācārin&#185; is offered in the taittirtīya upaniṣad, saying the following:
mātṛ devo bhava
pitṛ devo bhava |
ācārya devo bhava
atithi&#185; devo bhava ||
It says,
mother is like a god (deva), father is like a god (deva) |
the teacher/guru/ācārya is like a god (deva), a guest is like a god (deva) ||

The one of good conduct ( sadācārin) takes this to heart. A conversation some time back considered parents that may not deserve this level of respect, what to do? The mahābhārata calls out this condition and still recommends the son or daughter follow the discipline given from the parents even if in error.

Then we always come to the cross-roads in our HDF conversation that discusses conditions that may occur 0.01&#37; to find some wiggle room on the directions given about parents. What if the father is a robber, of ill intent and brings only harm to the home, mother, and community, what then? Do we still follow these directions? This is always the pickle, no?

I have practiced these directions to the best of my ability. Yet regarding parental guidance, I have fallen down on this matter on occasion and can see one's point of not following the direction given by the parent, but in all honesty cannot support this point of view.
Now I did not have barbarous parents such as a robber or villain so do not have this POV and will yield to others. Yet it is my humble assessment that this (parental respect) is a cornerstone of dharma.

praṇām

words

sadācārin - having pure and bright and good conduct
atithi from a-tithi meaning 'one who has no fixed day for coming ', a spontaneous guest , a person entitled to hospitality

[NayaSurya]

Yajvan, whom else will come and admit such a thing but the JaDa? How can I not derail your wonderful thoughts if you invite me back with such a question:P

I didn't write about the child's perspective because mine is tainted and is in the .001&#37; you mention above.

As you all know, I did have these sort of parents. But, even then there is no cut and dry to it. I love them.

I always say that my childhood was part sunlight, part shade...but the truth of the matter it was dark from birth. Perhaps, this child of the amavasya was destined to be in that shadow and the parents, simply there to bring on this pain...and education.

For, truly my childhood was part knowing and not. The first part, ignorant that what I was experiencing was abuse...and second with the full understanding that this was not how things were supposed to be.

Perhaps then I had the whole thing backwards. My childhood was truly dark all the way...and only my POV changed enough to understand my position.


I am an orphan, adopted by Siva, only by His Grace have I remained on this earth. So many times I sought to end this terrible suffering only to find some sign leading me on. For, when I lacked a Father's embrace...He embraced me. When I needed a Mother's compassion...I was given such wonderous relief.

I am a Mother of the highest order...never drugs, never ever forsake my beloved husband...

My children are in whole sunshine, every single day of their life...they bloom like flowers before me.<3

But where did these directions come from? How do I know how this job so wholly?

Perhaps then, sometimes we follow the parents by knowing the pitfalls with which they have descended into, never to emerge?

What of the karma? Perhaps these adults were to dish certain things upon a soul because of previous things?

One could say...oh this fool had KARMA (Capital k).

But, if this child came through the storm...without these attributes falling upon her....whose karma was it really?

What sort of Karma would cause a four year old baby to be molested?
If that baby, years later is a chaste pure hearted soul...was it her karma?

If it was, it has been resolved by such things.

The parents and family of this lifetime directed themselves and us into self destruction. But even they would have wanted better for their child.

Recently, I called my Father who cried and begged for forgiveness. I tell him no need. I am in this beautiful place because of that childhood....I have known things others can only read about...and felt things that make this place upon the hill fully recognized as the state of bliss.

For knowing such pain allows you to also recognize and fully know the joy when it finally comes.

Yajvan, even for the .001% who can own such a childhood, it would be foolish not to gleen every moment of experience and make it into a chance to learn, grow...and move forward. From this place of learning, even a teacher of attrocities is respected.

To do anything less would be to waste the lesson...and perhaps only cause the lesson to occur again in a later life.

Upon these things rests evolution.

The child does not allow the truth to be in her view for very long...the Mother she has become... obliges.

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam Narasurya:

Your posts certainly demonstrate how naive myself and some others are. Thank you (again) for being so personally honest and open.

Aum Namasivaya

[atanu]

------

I am an orphan, adopted by Siva, only by His Grace have I remained on this earth. .

Dear Naya

Although your childhood is miserable, the fruit is not a mean feat --Shiva's feet.



Legend has it that a devout woman Kusuma offered worship to Shiva regularly by immersing a Shivalingam in a tank, as a part of her daily ritual worship. Her husband's first wife (Kusuma's sister who was unable to bear a child), envious of her piety and the child, murdered Kusuma's son in cold blood. An aggrieved Kusuma continued her worship, and her son was miraculously restored to life. When Shiva revealed the Kusuma's sister as the murderer and offered to avenge the murder on behalf of Kusuma, she declined saying "Lord, what can happen without your knowing?" Shiva then is said to have appeared in front of her and the villagers, and then on is believed to have been worshipped in the form of a Jyotirlinga Ghusmeshwar.


In another forum, a lady, who has almost a similar story as yours, put some questions to me regarding karma. I wrote back to her the following:



Dwelling on past is a not good karma. In Gita, Shri Krishna teaches "Even if a sinner submits, I deliver him, since he has rightly resolved." Dwelling on past misery may re-inforce the negativity.

IMO, karma does not only mean action-reaction, but it is the essence of how this Universe moves. So, it is also the essence of living a guilt free and free life. Whatever is tormenting you from past must be thrown out as trash.

To get freed of the torment/anguish, I think, there are two ways. Meditation or Submission to God.



I empathise with you.

Om Namah Shivaya

[NayaSurya]

For all who would read this, please do not feel this childhood was bad. I agree dwelling on a past is not healthy. My family always says that I do not live in the truth because I was able to move on and forgive.

Perhaps this is why this vessel was so willing to forget it until siblings bring it to me.

Normally I would not allow these words I wrote above to be in my view, on my mind or in my heart. In several previous threads I have touched upon these lessons and once the conversation moves forward I move them out of my view.

I can not suffer to think on this much and so I do not. But, everything I do, see and think is a product of these precious lessons.

For all the bad you see above...I can tell you all of the days, spent in hours of prayerful devotion to beloved Sivaya. In the forest or under my tree shelter...by the stream. Every day a blessing, despite these things above. The more this world shook, the more I grasped tightly to the foundation He gave me at His beloved feet.

Every breath on this earth is a vespered prayer to Him.

Not one tear is shed for the things you see above. Save one...my stepfather. For, more than anything this child had hoped he would love her...and he did not. But, even then I know that my true Father loves me wholly and one day I will slip away from this place of joy and sorrows to sing at His beloved feet.

Once these children are grown, I will welcome this day without a second of hesitation.

Om Namah Sivaya<3

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam: I think its called resiliency from faith. Some people have it. Others don't. I remember talking with an early baseball coach who was also a pastor and volunteer ambulance driver. He looked kind of rattled or more reflective than usual one day, so myself and another player went for a sit down chat. He explained that the night before he had been to a horrific head-on crash scene. Out of a dozen or more policemen, 6 or more other ambulance workers, he said he was the only one that could muster up the jam to get into the ditch and start picking up the strewn body parts of the children and families. He said he worked by himself for more than an hour, before others could join him. I remain convinced it was his faith that allowed this.


Aum Namasivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;


atanu offers ,

Whatever is tormenting you from past must be thrown out as trash.
You have to ask, what can you really do about it ( a past act) any way? There are a few ways of viewing the past as I see it.
The gravity of a past act is they cannot be changed, both the wise and the fool agree on this point.

The wise learn from past actions to extract as much value from their experiences ( good or bad) because they have paid or will pay for that action today or tomorrow ; the greatest return on your investment is a lesson learned.

The fool on the other hand passes the same road traveled hits the same bumps and misses the lesson that was offered, to be repeated again till he gets it right. One more brick on his cart that increases his load.

He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future. – George Orwell

praṇām

[atanu]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namast&#233;


atanu offers ,

You have to ask, what can you really do about it ( a past act) any way? There are a few ways of viewing the past as I see it.
The gravity of a past act is they cannot be changed, both the wise and the fool agree on this point.

The wise learn from past actions to extract as much value from their experiences ( good or bad) because they have paid or will pay for that action today or tomorrow ; the greatest return on your investment is a lesson learned.

The fool on the other hand passes the same road traveled hits the same bumps and misses the lesson that was offered, to be repeated again till he gets it right. One more brick on his cart that increases his load.

He who controls the present, controls the past. He who controls the past, controls the future. – George Orwell

praṇām


Namaste yajvanji

What you say is most correct in general. But in this particular case, one is a victim and not the perpetrator. One also does not know the reasons for such victimisation. It applies for everyone, who are not omniscient. We do not know why some punishments are meted out. Under such circumstance, what should one do?

This is the question that was put to me in a pm in another forum. We mostly deal with the perpetrator (doer) but we do not give thought to the victim? The question is: What is there in Karma theory for the victim?

Om Namah Shivaya

[yajvan]

hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté atanu


Namaste yajvanji

What you say is most correct in general. But in this particular case, one is a victim and not the perpetrator. One also does not know the reasons for such victimisation. It applies for everyone, who are not omniscient. We do not know why some punishments are meted out. Under such circumstance, what should one do?

This is the question that was put to me in a pm in another forum. We mostly deal with the perpetrator (doer) but we do not give thought to the victim? The question is: What is there in Karma theory for the victim?
Om Namah Shivaya

What you say makes sense. I often think about this duḥkha¹ i.e. pain & sorrow that arrives on one's door step for no appearant reason.
We know actions that return to us can come form 3 places ( some say 5). It is my assessement the karma for the 'victim' lies within the 3 items below:

ādhyāmika - causes within our own self.
ādhibhautika - belonging or relating to created beings ~ society and or the surroundings of beings
ādhidaivika - relating or preceeding from gods or spirits some would call adhideva - relating to or proceeding from gods or from spirits ; proceeding from the influence of the atmosphere or planets , proceeding from divine or supernatural agencies. A person walks down the street and gets hit by a bus, yet the person was never even crossing the street. The bus ran up onto the side-walk and into a shop where the person is hit. How can this be?
[/list]What is the audit trail back to this action for this person? I can only consider what kṛṣṇa-ji informs us, actions are unfathomable ( bhāgavad gītā 4.17). Some results come today, some not, yet I am perplexed at the actions that takes lives to bear fruit , this I do not comprehend completely.


The mahābhārata, śanti parvan, 181st section says the following:
Just as a calf is able to find its parent even among a herd of a thousand cows, so are the acts of one's past birth is able to recognize and visit the doer in his new life...

praṇām

words
duḥkha ( according to grammarians properly written is duṣkha ) -uneasiness , pain , sorrow , trouble , difficulty