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Alise
09 July 2010, 05:19 AM
Namaste,

Most of you know I were christian, but I also had really big hatred to Christianity. I thought I would never be tolerate to Christianity, but then I found out my friend is mormon & his faith is important to him. That guy is really good person & he could always make me feel better. When my ex-BFF (an atheist) told me how bad friend I am, how bad influence I am (Well I got into fights with my mom, cause she wanted to do something. My mom never liked her.) & how she can't understand how my mom could be there for me (well, she does things behind her parents' back, my mom knows everything about me, mom's like my best friend) and then my friend made me feel so much better, even though we didn't talk for about year. Maybe Mormonism is different than mainstream Christianity, but suddenly I felt that different people really need different faith. I love Sanathana Dharma & I'm proud to be Hindu, but now I'm over of making fun of Christianity. And my friend, I guess, is good influence on me, cause now I really understand how beautiful religion can be in anyone's eyes (as I live in country where almost everyone is non-religious, it's strange) & how beautiful to is Sanathana Dharma.

Have a nice day,
~Alice

NayaSurya
09 July 2010, 05:52 AM
We shouldn't make fun of christianity. But often even in the disagreement of the dogma, they find that this is intolerable.

My most beloved teacher was my Mormon elder/handler as a child. Despite the fact I refused to be baptised he still loved and helped me.

I do believe some divine helpers come to us through the christians. Especially if we are born amongst them. Helpers would have no choice in most cases, especially where the areas are very remote.

It's true Mormons take care of each other to the extreme...watching over each family...even when a person is ill...they will pay bills...feed the children...do the laundry. Very compassionate folks.

But, just as other forms of christianity, there are good people and bad.

Telling the stories on here of my Elder who was so beloved, sparked me to go find him last month. I found a page dedicated to him on Facebook...he died the week I found him one year prior. I made sure to tell his widow that before her husband married, he was a father to many children...caring for each of us so wonderfully.

I can't help but think, that somewhere Siva gave him a special blessing for being such a wonderful spirit on this earth. Perhaps he still watches this fool blunder through this lifetime.

I told my children, when he died...I was so happy for him. That now he would be free from the christian dogma and perhaps be born back into his truer form. Back into the truth of Sanatana Dharma.

Perhaps I will be fortunate enough to die before he is once again deployed...and will be able to embrace him in gratitude for caring so much for me.

582

That's him and I on the right.

Ramakrishna
09 July 2010, 10:33 PM
Namaste,

There are good Christians and there are bad Christians. Just like how there are good Hindus and there are bad Hindus. I personally know several Christians who say that anybody who doesn't believe in Christ is going to hell, and I also know a few Christians who say that is is possible for non-Christians to attain salvation.

As a whole, I just try to leave them alone. That is as long as they leave me alone. Naya brings up great points that I never thought of before. Really the only Christians I have a problem with are the fundamentalists who think that everybody else is going to hell and who are out to convert everybody. The "moderate" Christians are okay, and I personally believe they are capable of living good enough lives in this life to attain moksha in their next life, or maybe even this one.

Jai Sri Krishna

ScottMalaysia
09 July 2010, 11:39 PM
Mormons are quite different from "regular" Christians - so much so that most Christian denominations recognise Mormonism as a separate religion and not part of Christianity (the same is true with regard to Jehovah's Witnesses as well). For example:

Mormons believe that God was once a human - Christians believe that God has always existed
Mormons believe that God has a body of flesh and bone - Christians believe that God is a spirit
Mormons believe that God is married and has spirit wives with which he produces spirit babies who then come to earth and take bodies - Christians believe that God is not married
Mormons believe that they can become gods and rule over their own worlds (if they follow certain regulations) - Christians believe that only God is God and that man can never become God
Mormons believe that the Book of Mormon (supposedly "translated" by their "prophet Joseph Smith with the aid of magic glasses) is as authoritative as the Bible - Christians believe that the Bible alone (Protestant) or the Bible and Tradition (Catholic and Orthodox) are the only source(s) of authority
Mormons do not drink alcohol, smoke cigarettes or consume caffeine - Christians have no such restrictionsMormons are generally extremely friendly and outgoing - two of them said hi to me in a supermarket once. They are like this to lure people into their religion.

sanjaya
10 July 2010, 12:59 AM
Good to hear! While I'm all for lodging legitimate criticism, I don't think it's typically a good idea to make fun of someone else's beliefs or religion. We all have negative thoughts and bitterness that we tend to cling to (I know I do, at any rate). Glad to hear you're letting go of yours.

Alise
10 July 2010, 05:02 AM
Namaste,

with making fun of, I meant fundementalists, I didn't make fun of Christianity as whole. Of course, that's not good to do. I regret it a lot.

And difference between Christianity & Mormonism, was not meant as in beliefs, but how to act towards other.

Have a nice day,
~Alice

Kumar_Das
10 July 2010, 02:16 PM
But its lots of fun to poke at xtianity and islam. :(

Just kidding... (or am I?:p )

Yeah I'm "okay" with xtians and xtianity as long as they dont start publizing their xtian-ness or xtianity. Same as with islam I guess...

Because I dont like to brush my "Hindu"-ness on everyone everywhere, so they shouldnt either.

Xtians and mozlems are generally both annoying when they start evaluating others based on their own religion as being the most superior/what religion ought to be.

Xtians are annoying and comical

mozlems are annoying and scary

Of course I'm still okay with xtians, and I prefer them over mozlems.

So far all of my ex-girlfriends who are Chinese are either xtian or "free thinkers".;)

One who was a roman catholic forced me to accept catholicism *sigh*... thats a whole story on its own.:rolleyes:

jaggin
28 September 2010, 08:55 AM
Namaste,

Most of you know I were christian, but I also had really big hatred to Christianity. I thought I would never be tolerate to Christianity, but then I found out my friend is mormon & his faith is important to him. That guy is really good person & he could always make me feel better. When my ex-BFF (an atheist) told me how bad friend I am, how bad influence I am (Well I got into fights with my mom, cause she wanted to do something. My mom never liked her.) & how she can't understand how my mom could be there for me (well, she does things behind her parents' back, my mom knows everything about me, mom's like my best friend) and then my friend made me feel so much better, even though we didn't talk for about year. Maybe Mormonism is different than mainstream Christianity, but suddenly I felt that different people really need different faith. I love Sanathana Dharma & I'm proud to be Hindu, but now I'm over of making fun of Christianity. And my friend, I guess, is good influence on me, cause now I really understand how beautiful religion can be in anyone's eyes (as I live in country where almost everyone is non-religious, it's strange) & how beautiful to is Sanathana Dharma.

Have a nice day,
~Alice

Somehow this does not compute. A person who has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior has love in his heart for all people.

Flowers are beautiful but they can't save you from committing sin.

BryonMorrigan
28 September 2010, 10:47 AM
Somehow this does not compute. A person who has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior has love in his heart for all people.


LOL. You have come here yourself with hate in your heart. Proselytism is a far greater sin than anything you accuse others of committing.

sanjaya
28 September 2010, 06:19 PM
Somehow this does not compute. A person who has accepted Jesus as Lord and Savior has love in his heart for all people.

Flowers are beautiful but they can't save you from committing sin.


Well to be fair, she said she hates Christianity, not Christians.

jaggin
20 January 2011, 07:26 AM
LOL. You have come here yourself with hate in your heart. Proselytism is a far greater sin than anything you accuse others of committing.

It is amazing that you think you are clairvoyant and can read hearts. It just so happens that you are totally incorrect. Proselytism is not a sin. It is an expression of love. If you view it as a sin then it appears that you are opposed to being loved. For a person who hates, love is an offense.

jaggin
20 January 2011, 07:37 AM
Well to be fair, she said she hates Christianity, not Christians.

My issue is not over who she hates but the source of her hate. I don't think there is any way to separate Christians form Christianity. However there can be some so called "Christian" practices with which I would take issue.

For instance I hate terrorism. I love the terrorist and try to dissuade him from his actions but what he does is terrible. However I am not so absurd as to hate Islam because terrorists have misconstrued their religion.

BryonMorrigan
20 January 2011, 08:54 AM
My issue is not over who she hates but the source of her hate. I don't think there is any way to separate Christians form Christianity. However there can be some so called "Christian" practices with which I would take issue.

For instance I hate terrorism. I love the terrorist and try to dissuade him from his actions but what he does is terrible. However I am not so absurd as to hate Islam because terrorists have misconstrued their religion.

You are a "Spiritual Terrorist," and proselytism is no better than racism, and is founded upon the same kinds of hate and prejudice.

Instead of being a "White Supremacist," you are a "Christian Supremacist."

...and nobody here is "buying" the hate that you are "selling."

devotee
20 January 2011, 09:01 AM
Namaste Jaggin,


Proselytism is not a sin. It is an expression of love. If you view it as a sin then it appears that you are opposed to being loved. For a person who hates, love is an offense.

I think you are camouflaging your hatred with love. This is not love. How much do you know about Hindu religion ? How are you sure that your beliefs are true and ours is false ? You want to drag me in your boat because you are already in it and you want more and more to join you. You have some sort of complex which is compelling you to believe that Hindus are misguided/deluded lot and you are trying to save them ... without sparing a minute to see that they are already much better off than you (i.e. the Christians) in spirituality.

You are happy with your faith ... please allow others to be happy with theirs. If you want to discuss anything logically on spirituality ... you are most welcome !

OM

sm78
20 January 2011, 09:15 AM
Proselytism is not a sin. It is an expression of love.
I know you and your fellow christians won't ever get tired of exercising this expression of love for Hindus. But I am sure, every Hindu in this forum, even the most liberal "religious oneness" ones, have really become tired of this unwanted affection. Can you direct this luuuvvvv of yours... somewhere else for a change please.....***censored: couldn't resist the first time**** .....

Eastern Mind
20 January 2011, 10:07 AM
Vannakkam: I was going to ignore but its hard not to join my brethen in defense. :) This 'love' of yours is going to have us all condemned to hell for eternity. I seriously question anyone who considers that love. Sounds a bit more like hatred to me, but hey maybe from this cold place called Canuckland it might be all right on some days. :)

Now let's turn it around. My God is called Siva, and from Him springs my belief that you won't go to hell for not believing what I believe at all. You'll actually grow out of your immature faith and one day attain moksha just like the rest of us. Such is the power of Siva's love! Now that sounds more like real love to me. Then again I could just be some poor heathen lacking in any real depth of insight or devotion.

May Siva's Grace descend upon you sooner than later.

Note to all: I do believe more and more he's on a schedule for this. About once every three weeks. I wonder if there's a way of checking.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
20 January 2011, 04:54 PM
Proselytism is not a sin. It is an expression of love. .

This unwanted love is called stalking. Take a hint, Hindus are way out of your league.

Alise
20 January 2011, 05:12 PM
Namaste.

Om Shanti. I found my home.

If one person feels like he found what he needs, doesn't mean that for other people it's same too. Growing spiritually is like a school, someone is in pre-school, other in 12th grade, but the 12th grader wouldn't really point out how much pre-schooler is far behind, right?

Everyone has free will, free choice. If person needs Christianity (or any other religion) he will find it no matter how... without proselytism.

Let's not bring up old topics. Thank you.

Have a wonderful day,
~Alice

Eastern Mind
20 January 2011, 06:08 PM
Vannakkam SweetAlisija: It always amazes me how wisdom comes from everywhere. A bunch of old guys like me go about berating some poor chap and then a chronologically younger person (this lifetime) comes along and adds some common sense. :)

You've been reading the right books. :);)

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
20 January 2011, 06:49 PM
All the classes from pre-school up to 12th grade are a prerequisite for moving ahead, unless someone is a savant all the lower classes are a "sine qua non" for admission to the higher classes. This is not really the case with Christianity and Hinduism. One does not need to go through Christianity to become Hindu. Christians will definitely have to suffer for their bad karma of prosyletizing and trying to destroy Bharata Dharma, their lower intelligence is not an excuse for this grave offence.

sanjaya
20 January 2011, 07:48 PM
It is amazing that you think you are clairvoyant and can read hearts. It just so happens that you are totally incorrect. Proselytism is not a sin. It is an expression of love. If you view it as a sin then it appears that you are opposed to being loved. For a person who hates, love is an offense.

You accuse ByronMorrigan of mind-reading (i.e. claiming that you have hate in your heart). But your claim is equally unverifiable. At the end of the day, no one really knows what is in the Christian missionary's mind, except for that missionary, and God. Maybe missionaries do proselytize out of love, and maybe they do so out of hate. My guess is that it varies from Christian to Christian. What we can say for certainty (well, with as much certainty as you possess) is that proselytizing is a sin. Remember, no one here is an atheist; we can point to an omniscient and omnipotent God as the source of all moral law, and can define good and bad from God's point of view. The only question is as to which religion accurately represents God's views on morality. To us, proselytizing is a sin. It's an interference with one's personal devotion to God. Like you, we believe that there is a right and wrong way to worship God. For example, no Hindu would offer beef as prasadam. But unlike you, we don't believe it is our dharma to correct others' behavior. Just as you say proselytizing is not a sin, we have an equally valid basis for saying that it is indeed a sin.

When I say "equally valid," I of course don't mean that both our claims are simultaneously true. What I mean is that both arguments logically follow from our starting assumptions. We assume the theology of Hinduism, you assume Christianity. Can you give me a compelling reason to believe you over Hinduism?


My issue is not over who she hates but the source of her hate. I don't think there is any way to separate Christians form Christianity. However there can be some so called "Christian" practices with which I would take issue.

For instance I hate terrorism. I love the terrorist and try to dissuade him from his actions but what he does is terrible. However I am not so absurd as to hate Islam because terrorists have misconstrued their religion.

I'm not sure what you mean here. Your statement about Islam seems to suggest that you can separate Muslims (Christians) from Islam (Christianity). Which is it?

Having said all this, it's difficult to disagree with Devotee's comment that Christians are disguising hatred with love. Belief that non-Christians are going to hell seems to breed hatred of them. And I'm not just pulling this out of a vacuum. This is the very ethic of the Inquisitions, whereby people were tortured to the point of conversion. The logic seems to be that extracting a confession of faith will save the person's soul, and is thus loving. But the infliction of violence on the individual suggests hatred. The Inquisition made its way to India, where Christians attempted to extract such conversions from Hindus. You'll have a hard time convincing us that this is loving.

While I agree with Byron's charge of spiritual terrorism, I will say this much: spiritual terrorism is infinitely preferable to real terrorism. Christians over the centuries have evolved for the better. I'll take the world's supply of evangelical Christians over a handful of inquisitors. That said, I think that both forms of terrorism stem from the same belief in the eternal condemnation of non-Christians. You want to save us from this torment, and then turn on us and become angry when we reject your supposed gift, i.e. when we spurn your love.

But maybe it's unfair to bring up ancient history, so here's a modern example. Listen to the Christian protestors' denunciation of Hinduism during Rajan Zed's historic Hindu prayer in the U.S. Senate, and tell me if such an act is loving towards Hindus (I'm guessing you'll agree it's not loving). Then tell me why the protestors' actions are not in agreement with Christian teaching. Seems to me like Joshua demolishing the idolaters' golden demons.

Ramakrishna
22 January 2011, 04:22 PM
At the end of the day, no one really knows what is in the Christian missionary's mind, except for that missionary, and God. Maybe missionaries do proselytize out of love, and maybe they do so out of hate. My guess is that it varies from Christian to Christian. What we can say for certainty (well, with as much certainty as you possess) is that proselytizing is a sin.

Very true. I have said it before on here (can't remember the exact thread), but there definitely are different mindsets the Christians have when they are out to convert. It's difficult to decide which one is worse. There are Christians who convert out of "love" and they truly feel that way. At that point they have become so brainwashed and delusional that they really feel like they are doing it for the best. Then there are Christians who really do it out of hate, and they know it, but they disguise it under love. Really, they just do it to feed their superiority complex, and to confirm their belief that they are right and anyone who disagrees with them is eternally damned.

I used to think the second mindset is more common, but I am not so sure anymore. At this point there probably are a good amount of Christians out there who have become totally brainwashed and completely delusional that they truly believe what they are doing is out of "love".

These are the two mindsets in a nutshell, and they both are wrong. Proselytizing is sinful, no matter what the reason or mindset behind it is.

Jai Sri Ram

Sudarshan
23 January 2011, 02:42 AM
It is amazing that you think you are clairvoyant and can read hearts. It just so happens that you are totally incorrect. Proselytism is not a sin. It is an expression of love. If you view it as a sin then it appears that you are opposed to being loved. For a person who hates, love is an offense.

Proselytism without realizing the Truth is a case of blind leading the blind. Beleiving in something and realizing it are quite different. You must know the Truth beyond the books to be eligible to proselytize. You may love someone but if you are not sure of the Truth, you may accidentally mislead him even though it was not your motive. So leave each person to find the truth in his own way and keep away from him unless he approaches you for instruction. Proselytism is a kind of spiritual prostitution as it trespasses into the spirituality of another person and may lead him down the wrong path. Going door to door and preaching what you have not yet realized is wasting of one's own time that can be used for self improvement and spiritual progress. Proselytism is a total waste of time for both the teacher and the taught.

PARAM
24 January 2011, 10:59 AM
I do not make fun of Christianity, but I have to accept what the truth comes

There is a joke about Muslims and Christian, it is funny and sad but true (at least I think)

A Hindu scholar after visiting the temple, went back to home, he open the internet and started checking Muslims and Christian site. A friend of the scholar came by, and seeing him on Anti Hindu site, he angrily shouted -'What you are doing? Is this what you think is right, those sites are filled with hatred against Dharma and still you have account there, and you had no objection for this.'

To this the Scholar said -'Well, my dear friend, I used to visit Hindu related sites, but there I found that Hinduism is under attack, and Hindu hearts either mock on others or speak too much but did nothing. Now I am on these sites, there I read that Hindus own everything, media and government are under the control of Hindu organisations.
I know all this is lie just to misguide the World, but this news give me mental peace.'

Eastern Mind
24 January 2011, 11:13 AM
Vannakkam: Post 12 by Jaggin mainly to aggravate.
Post 13 to 24 - Responses to the aggravation.

Mission accomplished. :)

Aum Namasivaya

sanjaya
24 January 2011, 02:08 PM
Vannakkam: Post 12 by Jaggin mainly to aggravate.
Post 13 to 24 - Responses to the aggravation.

Mission accomplished. :)

Aum Namasivaya

I'll admit it. Perhaps I may have made a less than productive use of my time... :)

Eastern Mind
24 January 2011, 02:18 PM
Vannakkam Sanjaya: Hey, I got suckered into it too. Thou are not alone vit ze vastink of time. :) Unfortunately, in my retirement, I have more time to waste. I sincerely hope next time he comes on, he just gets ignored by all of us. I shall try to remember, but you know how that goes.

Aum Namasivaya

Adhvagat
24 January 2011, 02:43 PM
Proselytism without realizing the Truth is a case of blind leading the blind. Beleiving in something and realizing it are quite different. You must know the Truth beyond the books to be eligible to proselytize. You may love someone but if you are not sure of the Truth, you may accidentally mislead him even though it was not your motive. So leave each person to find the truth in his own way and keep away from him unless he approaches you for instruction. Proselytism is a kind of spiritual prostitution as it trespasses into the spirituality of another person and may lead him down the wrong path. Going door to door and preaching what you have not yet realized is wasting of one's own time that can be used for self improvement and spiritual progress. Proselytism is a total waste of time for both the teacher and the taught.

Om Tat Sat

RVR
25 January 2011, 05:23 AM
I wish we ignore the missionaries and their agents.

In spite of Muslim and European invasions, India continues to be a Hindu majority country with secular outlook which I am sure will continue in the future also.

Population of Christians in India is hardly 2.34% in spite of enormous money spent on Proselytizing and exploiting vulnerable sections of Indian society.

Before British invasion, India was one of the richest countries on earth. I am sure India will become a richest country on earth in the current century. Muslim rule has not affected Indian prosperity but British/European rule has made India a poor country.

Let us ignore the missionaries and build a prosperous India.

All the best