PDA

View Full Version : Shaiva Dvaita?



Kumar_Das
15 July 2010, 09:24 AM
Cant seem to find much information on Shiva as Brahman in Dvaita.

MahaHrada
15 July 2010, 10:17 AM
Cant seem to find much information on Shiva as Brahman in Dvaita.

Thats because what is called (unjustified) "dvaita" Shaivaism (shaiva siddhanta) is not based on the Upanishads and does not belong to Vedanta but is an agamic/tantric tradition where the vedantic concept of brahman is not used too often.

Kumar_Das
15 July 2010, 11:50 AM
Thats because what is called (unjustified) "dvaita" Shaivaism (shaiva siddhanta) is not based on the Upanishads and does not belong to Vedanta but is an agamic/tantric tradition where the vedantic concept of brahman is not used too often.

And why is that?:confused:

Kumar_Das
15 July 2010, 11:53 AM
Rishi Agastya is said to be the first to realize Brahman and he was a Shaivite.:confused:

MahaHrada
15 July 2010, 12:13 PM
And why is that?:confused:

Because agamic/tantric Darshanas are not based on the Vedas and Upanishads but regard the Agamas and Tantras as their Shastras, which do not talk about Brahman as the absolute.

see my postings :

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=39359&postcount=2

http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=39675&postcount=20

isavasya
15 July 2010, 01:38 PM
Well to find info about shiva-advaita or shiva-vishist advaita, go through he works of srikanathacharya (also known as siva-nilkanthacharya), he has written a brahmsutra bhasya explaining lord shiva as brahman. Himlayan acedemy guru sri sivaya subramuniya swami takes reference from brahmsutra bhasya of srikanthacharya.

Also go through the works of great appaya dikshitar, he was also a guru of shiva-advaita lineage. siva-karmani-deepika is a memorable work of sri appaya dikshitar.

However you must know, dwaita element is generally missing from shavism, most of shavite schools are following qualified monism. Kashmiri shavism is a wonderful philosophy, even sri basavana veerashavism is very beautiful. The oldest school of Hinduism pashupata shaivism is also a school of shavism, but they are not dvaita completely because according to these philosophies , after moksha, jeeva doesn't retains a completely differnt individuality from shiva.

Namah shivaye

MahaHrada
15 July 2010, 01:45 PM
However you must know, dwaita element is generally missing from shavism

It is Shaiva Siddhanta, based on the 28 Shaiva agamas that is, partly unjustified, mentionend as belonging to Dvaitavada. Also Siddha Siddhanta, i.e. Nath Sampradaya is mentioned sometimes as belonging to DvaitAdvaitavada.

Both Traditions would say that their teachings are higher than both concepts, they consider the ultimate state to transcend the limited intellectual concepts of Dvaita and Advaita Teachings.

Arav
27 August 2010, 09:51 AM
What needs to be understood here is that Shaiva Siddhanta does have a Monistic side. It is commonly overlooked and thought that Shaiva Siddhanta is dualistic when there is in fact a monistic form of it. Himalayan Academy follows the Monistic version, its actually called Advaita Isvaravada, meaning Monistic Theism. And this tradition accepts the Vedas and in Sivaya Subramuniaswami's books, he commonly refers to Vedas and Upanisads along with Agamas.

But there is also the Dualistic Theism of Meyankar, it is more popular. The monistic theism is from Tirumular and is much less known.

Eastern Mind
27 August 2010, 02:01 PM
Vannakkam: Here's a link to the long paper on it.

http://www.himalayanacademy.com/resources/books/dws/dws_r4_monism-pluralism.html

Aum Namasivaya

kd gupta
27 August 2010, 11:30 PM
Thats because what is called (unjustified) "dvaita" Shaivaism (shaiva siddhanta) is not based on the Upanishads and does not belong to Vedanta but is an agamic/tantric tradition where the vedantic concept of brahman is not used too often.
I like talking vedic , extending to vedantic , but agamic/tantric and belonging to mercyful shiva , o god I am afraid to feel . May anybody pl explain ?

kd gupta
29 August 2010, 10:34 AM
Let me make it clear that there is…….
kali biloki jaga hita hara girija, sabara mantra jala jinha sirija.
anamila akhara aratha na japµu, pragata prabhau mahesa pratapµu….goswamiji
Seeing the prevalence of the Kali age Hara and Girija (siva and Parvati) evolved a string
of spells in the tongue of savages, incoherent syllables which yield no interpretation and
require no repetition, but whose efficacy is patent, revealing siva.s glory.

Now there is a Mantra series called Sabar Mantra series , which our rishis knew , but there is a 0.00001% chance that some of our rishiputras may know . So knowing tantra, if it is a part of sabar mantra series, is only reliable then .

charlebs
17 April 2011, 12:55 PM
Let me make it clear that there is…….
kali biloki jaga hita hara girija, sabara mantra jala jinha sirija.
anamila akhara aratha na japµu, pragata prabhau mahesa pratapµu….goswamiji
Seeing the prevalence of the Kali age Hara and Girija (siva and Parvati) evolved a string
of spells in the tongue of savages, incoherent syllables which yield no interpretation and
require no repetition, but whose efficacy is patent, revealing siva.s glory.

Now there is a Mantra series called Sabar Mantra series , which our rishis knew , but there is a 0.00001% chance that some of our rishiputras may know . So knowing tantra, if it is a part of sabar mantra series, is only reliable then .

this is beautiful, only shiva would inspire confusion for ultimate enlightenment. I love Shiva so much!!

Ale
09 March 2018, 07:52 PM
Hello,
Saiva Siddhanta of Meykandar Sampradaya (the philosophy which I'm studying and following now) can't be considered as either abheda, bhedabheda or bheda (advaita/vishishtadvaita/dvaita). It may be more similar to Madhva's dvaita in the sense that it rejects God as the upadana karana (material cause) and postulates the eternality of the three pradarthas (God, soul and matter). It may be called "pluralistic realism" but it also has its concept of advaita which differs from both vivarta-vada (idealistic monism) and brahma parinama-vada (realistic/theistic monism). This advaita concept of Saiva Siddhanta is called "Suddha Advaita" which on one hand is defined as the eternal and inseparable connection of the three pradarhtas (God-soul-matter) and on the other hand it is about a particular characteristic of the jiva/purusha/soul, which is said to be mirror-like, reflecting or becoming one with everything it comes in contact, so in state of bondage, in contact with mala (impurities), antahkarana (mind) and indriyas (sense organs) it forgets its own self and regards itself to be the physical body. In mukti, when freed from mala and karma, it forgets itself and perceives only God (aided through Divine Shakti) and prakriti is rendered imperceptible. So here advaita, rather than being the "final" intellectual or philosophical conclusion about the nature of reality (as in the case of monism), is considered as the inner experience of the liberated purusha/soul. Siddhanta makes a distinction between advaita and ekatma-vada(monism), considering the later to be a gross misunderstanding of the true meaning of advaita and maha-vakyas of the shruti.
Siddhanta regards the Veda, upanishads and Gita as authority but rejects the concept of apourusheya of the Vedas. Shiva is considered as the Author and Revealer of both Veda and Agama, but Sivagamas are considered to be a revelation of higher degree than the Vedas.
Shiva is the Supreme, Transcendental and not a member of the trimurti. Brahma, Vishnu and Rudra are just a high hierarchy of souls which derive their power from Shiva.
The concept of the Supreme being born in the world is rejected, as the one taking avatars and being born through human wombs is Lord Vishnu, who is not the Supreme but a soul of higher hierarchy. Shiva can assume forms for the sake of His devotees, but he needs not human vessel to effectuate his appearence on earth, such forms Lord Shiva assumes are not made of maya but of pure Chit-Shakti.