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bp789
16 July 2010, 01:54 AM
Okay, I do not know if this topic has been done before, but what does Hinduism say about intercaste, interracial, and interfaith marriage?

Are you personally in one or do you know someone in one? Are there any challenges in the marriage? If not, would you ever consider one? (when I say "one", I mean all three intercaste, interracial, and interfaith)

Eastern Mind
16 July 2010, 07:22 AM
Vannakkam bp789:

Although there is a trend where these types of marriages are becoming more commonplace, it is not necessarily wise. Each individual marriage is unique, but stats indicate the divorce rate is three times as high, although personally, I think it may have more to do with the lack of shared interests.

I went to one yesterday, and have been to several, and know several. The one yesterday was between a Sri Lankan Hindu boy, and a Malayalee Christian girl. They are having two weddings: yesterday was the Hindu wedding, and Saturday is the Christian wedding. There is meat at one, but not the other. A thali at one, and a ring at the other. Etc. Quite different in all respects. I'm guessing each family considers one of the weddings to be the 'real' wedding, and that would differ.

Of course there are differences to be worked out. When a child comes along, so we do the namakarana, or baptism? Do we attend church, or temple, or both? So it can get very complicated.

From my observation, the more liberal minded people within their faiths are more likely to succeed. (If the definition of success is staying together harmoniously) The problems occur when an individual is or gets very religious, and then quite adamant about it.

Some of the others I have seen are: Sri Lankan Hindu male married to Swedish Christian female ending in divorce.

Sri Lankan Hindu male married to Korean liberal Christian ... working out wonderfully so far

White non-practising Hindu leaning to agnostic (my son) married to a tolerant liberal Anglican ... working out wonderfully so far.

Two Sri Lankans ... one getting very involved in a Guru, and the religion ... ending in divorce.

So each situation is incredibly different. I think that part of the solution is give up on any infatuation for a minute before marriage, and REALLY talk it out beforehand, especially before children.

Aum Namasivaya

Ramakrishna
16 July 2010, 01:40 PM
Namaste,

Here is an article about the growing number of interfaith marriages and how they are failing: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/06/04/AR2010060402011.html?hpid=opinionsbox1

I would definitely see more problems arising out of interfaith marriages rather than interracial marriages. But of course a lot of the time the two are intertwined. I have never really thought about marrying a non-Hindu. I can see how non-practicing or semi-practicing Hindus wouldn't mind, but for me personally Hinduism is such a big part of my life and I would prefer to have a Hindu wife and also to raise my children in Sanatana Dharma.

I would be open to marrying someone of another race, provided they are Hindu. Especially with a growing number of white and non-Indian Hindus, that could be a real possibility for me. But of course I don't plan on getting married anytime in the next several, years, so I'll see what happens.

Jai Sri Krishna

Eastern Mind
16 July 2010, 04:48 PM
Vannakkam: I found a long and often personal discussion about it on another forum here. This one is particularly about Hindu-Christian marriages.

http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3179

Pretty interesting comments all around.

Aum Namasivaya

Ramakrishna
16 July 2010, 10:03 PM
Vannakkam: I found a long and often personal discussion about it on another forum here. This one is particularly about Hindu-Christian marriages.

http://www.bignewsnetwork.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3179

Pretty interesting comments all around.

Aum Namasivaya

Namaste Eastern Mindji,

I took a look at the thread and it does have interesting comments. I think the main factor with how successful interfaith marriages will be is how religious the spouses are. If they are both non-practicing or semi-practicing, then the marriage could end up being successful with not that many problems. However, if both spouses are devout and deeply immersed in their respective religions, then most likely problems will arise. Like the OP said that her boyfriend has a deep faith in Christianity and she has a deep faith in Hinduism and they already saw problems arising.

You could always say that you won't raise the children in any religion and let them choose for themselves, but I don't think that is very practical. What will the spouses do when the child is very young and not yet able to choose their own religion? Will the child have a Hindu name or a Christian name? Will the child be baptized or go through the Hindu sacraments such as niskramana, annaprashana, and chudakarma? Also, as somebody in the thread said, depending on where you live, it can be a difficult thing just to not raise your children Christian.

A non-practicing or semi-practicing Hindu probably won't care much about having their child go through the sacraments and a semi-practicing Christian probably won't care much about doing specific things to raise their child Christian. That's why I think those marriages have a better chance of succeeding. But if both spouses are devout and deeply rooted in their own religion, then problems will more likely arise.

Jai Sri Krishna

atanu
16 July 2010, 11:09 PM
Namaste Eastern Mindji,

---- However, if both spouses are devout and deeply immersed in their respective religions, then most likely problems will arise. Like the OP said that her boyfriend has a deep faith in Christianity and she has a deep faith in Hinduism and they already saw problems arising.

Jai Sri Krishna

Namaste Ramakrishna

I will rather opine the opposite (within a limited scope however). You are correct in case of conventional faith where devoutness is equated to externalities. But where the knowledge of spirit is deep, the alliances are never broken, even if partners kill each other (one may of course counter opine that in case of christians or muslims the knowledge of spirit can never be deep enough).

Bhisma and Krishna fought the terminal battle but were they separated?

Om Namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
17 July 2010, 06:17 AM
Vannakkam:

Sometimes the disagreement is right there from the start, and people can't see it. I know of marriages where parents refused to go, because the one side (Christian or Moslem) could not get themselves to enter the Hindu temple. So it basically then becomes eloping. Sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. Easier in the west, where we have more of a nuclear family social structure rather than an extended family social structure.

In my own marriage, my wife's parents refused to go, but that wasn't religious. More a case of nobody being good enough for our daughter. But it all changed back over time, when the kids started arriving. Each set of parents blamed the other side for 'leading my poor child into some strange cult', when in reality it was total mutual consent. Nobody led anyone.

This topic varies greatly between east and west. One of the main reasons is that in the east, nearly everyone has a religion, and there is a stronger sense of caste. Here in the west, about half the people have no religious affiliation, but rather the philosophy of secular humanism, or agnosticism. There is still a class (mostly education, and money related) barrier though. Pygmalion was all about that, was it not? You don't see doctors marrying below their 'class' much.

Aum Namasivaya

bp789
17 July 2010, 12:29 PM
Here's a post on a South Asian American blog that I found which is about mixed Indians.

http://www.sepiamutiny.com/sepia/archives/003744.html

Well, I guess my actual question is does Hinduism forbid intercaste marriage?

Eastern Mind
17 July 2010, 07:35 PM
Vannakkam bp789:

Forbid is an awfully strong word. I suppose that there are some people who would say it is forbidden. Some say it is forbidden to cross water as a Brahmin, and you lose your caste if you do. Yes, there is the orthodox or traditional element, but I believe they would be in the minority. But when humans have free will, there isn't much one can do. A lot of people wouldn't like it, but then they'd tolerate it after the act. Now as we are moving more into a global awareness and lots of intermixing, it is becoming more prevalent, and more tolerable. It probably also depends a lot on the degree of gap between castes.

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
17 July 2010, 10:45 PM
A non-practicing or semi-practicing Hindu probably won't care much about having their child go through the sacraments and a semi-practicing Christian probably won't care much about doing specific things to raise their child Christian. That's why I think those marriages have a better chance of succeeding. But if both spouses are devout and deeply rooted in their own religion, then problems will more likely arise.

There would be less problems with a Hindu having their kids raised Christian than vice versa. Hinduism is tolerant and accepting of all religions, while Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. A Hindu would have far less problem with their child going to church to sing hymns and hear about Jesus than a Christian would have with their children going to a Hindu temple and praying to images, which is strictly forbidden in Christianity. However, as EM said, if you have a liberal Christian (who believes there is more than one way to heaven) and a liberal Hindu then it could work.

sanjaya
19 July 2010, 01:21 AM
You know, I'm not really certain about what Hinduism says regarding these types of marriages. I know that in India a lot of family tension arises over any deviation from the norm, but I don't know how much of this is actually based on Hindu teaching, and how much is just the culture. Attitudes about intercaste and interracial marriage may just be the result of cultural prejudices. But there's perhaps a good reason behind the opposition to interfaith marriage. As others have said, if both spouses are nonpracticing this probably won't be a problem. But even here, in a way the spouses are of the same faith, since they are effectively atheists. The fact of the matter is that different religions usually aren't compatible, and one will have to take a back seat. If you raise your children in two religions, they end up with a faith that is neither here nor there, and this does justice to neither religion.


You could always say that you won't raise the children in any religion and let them choose for themselves, but I don't think that is very practical. What will the spouses do when the child is very young and not yet able to choose their own religion? Will the child have a Hindu name or a Christian name? Will the child be baptized or go through the Hindu sacraments such as niskramana, annaprashana, and chudakarma? Also, as somebody in the thread said, depending on where you live, it can be a difficult thing just to not raise your children Christian.

Heh, this is quite true. As I or other Hindus raised in the West could say, it's difficult not being Christian in America. Imagine if one spouse is Hindu and the other is Christian. The Hindu doesn't stand a chance.


There would be less problems with a Hindu having their kids raised Christian than vice versa. Hinduism is tolerant and accepting of all religions, while Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. A Hindu would have far less problem with their child going to church to sing hymns and hear about Jesus than a Christian would have with their children going to a Hindu temple and praying to images, which is strictly forbidden in Christianity. However, as EM said, if you have a liberal Christian (who believes there is more than one way to heaven) and a liberal Hindu then it could work.

Most Hindus may not have a problem with this; personally I would. There's no way I'd let any child of mine attend church regularly. Personally I feel that Christianity erodes family values, and I wouldn't want a small child to be exposed to it. But to each his own, and I can respect anyone else's choices.

rcscwc
28 August 2010, 07:52 AM
There would be less problems with a Hindu having their kids raised Christian than vice versa. Hinduism is tolerant and accepting of all religions, while Christianity teaches that Jesus Christ is the only way to God. A Hindu would have far less problem with their child going to church to sing hymns and hear about Jesus than a Christian would have with their children going to a Hindu temple and praying to images, which is strictly forbidden in Christianity. However, as EM said, if you have a liberal Christian (who believes there is more than one way to heaven) and a liberal Hindu then it could work.
Whatever you say about xians is even more applicable to muslims too.

Arjuni
26 October 2010, 07:25 PM
I'm reviving this thread because I thought it was very interesting...I have no experience with intercaste or interracial marriages (I'm Western, and know no inter-racial couples well), but interfaith, I certainly do.

Whether interfaith marriages can work is, I believe, related to various religions' (and practitioners') ideas of what marriage is for. Most religions do consider marriage a sacrament, and a primary duty of both partners to be the strengthening and assisting of each other's faith. I think that interfaith marriage works best if the partners are able to fulfill those responsibilities towards each other. I don't have to be Jewish, for example, to have a basic understanding of the Jewish faith and support someone else in his/her efforts to live by it.

A person considering an interfaith marriage should also keep in mind that a partner's faith may change in intensity throughout the years - so that one may marry an "Easter-and-Christmas" Christian who doesn't seem to care much about church or the Bible, but should consider that the person may become very devout later on, and understand what this may mean to the relationship. This also means that one's own faith may increase over the years, and one should do some serious soul-searching to be certain that having a partner to share with is not of vital importance. There is a certain intense loneliness that comes in practicing one's faith alone within a marriage. :/

I cannot fathom how children would complicate matters. If I've decided my faith, presumably I believe it's the 'right' one, and I can't quite wrap my head around the idea of believing something myself, but having my children raised as something else; I can't imagine any compromise that might satisfy both partners, either. (This is why it's good that I'm childless, among many other reasons!)

Indraneela
===
"I wait the power of one like thee, O Indra, gifts of a Helper such as thou
art, Hero.
Strong, Mighty God, dwell with me now and ever."
Om Indrāya Namaḥ.
Om Namaḥ Śivāya.

ScottMalaysia
26 October 2010, 07:50 PM
I'm reviving this thread because I thought it was very interesting...I have no experience with intercaste or interracial marriages (I'm Western, and know no inter-racial couples well), but interfaith, I certainly do.

I am a Westerner and my wife is Indian. We haven't had any problems because of race, either in Malaysia or here in New Zealand.


Whether interfaith marriages can work is, I believe, related to various religions' (and practitioners') ideas of what marriage is for. Most religions do consider marriage a sacrament, and a primary duty of both partners to be the strengthening and assisting of each other's faith. I think that interfaith marriage works best if the partners are able to fulfill those responsibilities towards each other.

I also think that interfaith marriages work better between those religions which state that there are many ways to God and that no religion has an exclusive claim on God or truth. A Hindu/Buddhist couple shouldn't have many problems as both religions are tolerant. However, when one of the religions says that it is the only way and condemns practices of the other religion, then you have a problem. Christianity teaches that it is the only way and also that worshipping idols is wrong. Therefore, a Christian may very well believe that Hindus are following a false religion by using images of Hindu Gods in worship. A marriage between this sort of person and a Hindu would probably not work out.

Furthermore, certain religions such as Islam, Judaism and Orthodox Christianity do not allow marriages outside their respective religions (although Islam allows a Muslim man to marry a Jewish or Christian woman). A marriage between a Hindu and a Muslim, a Jew or an Orthodox Christian would be seen as invalid by their partner's religion.


I don't have to be Jewish, for example, to have a basic understanding of the Jewish faith and support someone else in his/her efforts to live by it.

Yes but if you had a Jewish spouse, then your marriage would be forbidden according to Judaism and they would be required to divorce you unless you converted to Judaism. But if you're talking about just a friend, then yes, it makes sense.

With regard to children, some couples decide that they won't bring their children up in any religion and let them decide when they're old enough. However, that is still forcing a set of beliefs on them (not to have any beliefs).

sunyata07
27 October 2010, 06:40 AM
Namaste,

This topic has given me many interesting insights. I have always known that marriage was an important part of Hindu life, naturally, it being a sacrament in most other religions. It makes perfect sense that most Hindu parents would want their children to marry somebody within their own faith, and I would say that largely, it should be that way. I'm not sure why I feel like that, but it makes things a lot less complicated. This only really applies to religious-minded people. I wouldn't regard agnostic or less religiously minded people like this, but as someone has already very sagely pointed out, people change - they don't have the same beliefs for the whole of their life. A person's spiritual journey can begin at any time, and it could be that a person who has married an individual from a different faith finds himself with a spouse who is suddenly very religiously fervent. What happens then?

I cannot speak out much about the pros and cons of intercaste marriage, for reasons of ignorance, but I definitely can talk about interracial marriages, being the child of one of them. While faith is something that could pose a potential problem for people from two different religious backgrounds wanting to marry, I cannot see how race is even remotely important. I'm biased in saying this, sure, but this seems like a very primitive way of thinking. I assume this was brought up as a topic to add to the discussion of intercaste and interfaith marriage, but in itself, I hope the majority of the Hindu community don't believe in such outmoded tribal thinking. My own parents married 23 years ago, when probably ~99% of the population over here was Caucasian. Even though the ethnic minorities were increasing in number as my sisters were growing up, we experienced a lot of staring, sometimes the nice kind, other times not so nice. Now, hardly anybody notices we're half-white and nobody would stop to question the morality of a white man dating a black woman or vice versa (unless, of course, they're racist). It's one of the few things that I feel the western world finally got right.



Therefore, a Christian may very well believe that Hindus are following a false religion by using images of Hindu Gods in worship.


I would agree mostly with this, Scott, but not all of this statement. My father is a very pious man, coming from a traditional Catholic home that used to be covered in images of the Virgin Mary, the Sacred Heart (which even die-hard Protestant idol haters use to decorate their homes), etc. It's a funny thing to say that Christians don't believe in using idols for worship, because it is not at all true - in which case, they're either very seriously in denial about what constitutes an idol or else just complete hypocrites. Even the cross that symbolises Christianity is an idol when people kneel before it in Mass. But to get back on topic, my dad is slightly less orthodox than most Christians - a lot of what he talks about sounds eerily like Hindu theology about returning back to God (Brahman) after we die. It was surprising to learn over the years that such a religious man like my father could ever have felt inclined to marry anyone other than a devout Catholic, but he and my mother are still together and very happy. She, herself, comes from a traditional Taoist Chinese background but claims she has no religion, and yet she is certainly not atheist. Whenever we'd make trips back to her parents in Hong Kong, it was tradition for us to us say prayers in front of the family shrine in respect for our ancestors (grandparents, great-grandparents). Actual worship plays an important part in this, and there is a sort of puja ceremony, involving offering incense, food and many kowtows to the honoured dead. And to think my dad did (and still would do) all this in respect for my mother's family and her beliefs. I remember with some amusement how, back then, I was quite a good little Catholic myself. At hearing we had to bow low before my grandfather's shrine, I looked to my dad and wondered if it was all right, if I was angering God somehow by doing what the Bible forbade. Not that I was ever really a God-fearing child, but it was more confusion at how we were taught one thing in church and another thing by my dad. Looking back now, I have much to thank him for.

I'm a strange product altogether, coming from a Christian-Taoist-agnostic home and yet somehow finding myself after all these years on a Hindu discussion forum telling everyone how I've managed to turn out all right, despite the odds that seemed stacked against me. In which case, I will venture to say that interfaith marriages could very well work. After all, children grow up. Their beliefs change, and if they have their own mind, they shouldn't be any the worse for it. In a way, it seems to fitting to have to struggle to find your path and discover your own beliefs - to be born so simply into it, seems like relying a little too much on your parents and not enough on karma.

Om namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
27 October 2010, 07:39 AM
Vannakkam Sunyata et al:

Very interesting insights. Thanks for sharing so much about yourself, not that it really matters.

I agree that race should have nothing to do with it. I know several (5 from the top of my head) white Hindus who have successful marriages with Hindus from India, Sri Lanka, Mauritius, etc. But this only applies if race is not a factor within the individual person's head. I've often held the thought that its not who you marry so much as when you marry, but this is just an analogy to the individual being mature enough to handle the responsibilities that come along.

Divorces I have seen were due to incompatibility, lust (adultery), and religion. I think lust tops the list though. Never once have I seen it due to race. And these days its not just the guys who do the wandering. I think some sort of frank discussion about sex drives before marriage may have helped in these cases, but who knows. A couple off times it was someone marrying their job, so the job became the mistress.

We see more and more of interracial marriages which is a great thing.

Aum Namasivaya

sunyata07
27 October 2010, 10:14 AM
Yes, sorry I did wander a bit off topic there! Got caught up in my thoughts.

I agree with you on the lust being the worst factor for breaking up couples. I read a rather alarming statistic the other day in a newspaper that said 3 out of 4 people have admitted to cheating on a partner in the past. I knew straying from a spouse or partner was a problem, but I didn't realise it was that big a problem. It's no wonder divorce is on the rise. Plus, changing attitudes to divorce mean it's no longer a big deal if your marriage doesn't work out. Which leads me to ask, is the issue of divorce a big deal according to traditional Hindus?

Eastern Mind
27 October 2010, 11:38 AM
Vannakkam Sunyata: In my Tamil community, divorce is a BIG issue, even in a young couple that made a mistake. There is ostracism (nicknamed the Tamil squeeze) in the worse case scenarios, and loneliness because of it. In some sects and groups, remarriage is 'forbidden' although of course a person may break this by their own volition. But certainly, the divorce rate is low. In 30 + years of living in a this Sri Lankan Tamil community, not once have I heard of adultery. Either it never happens, or people are sure quiet about it.

Although divorce is very rare, unhappy marriages aren't that rare. But they sort of live separated within the same house.

Personally, I think the lust thing comes partly out of media, a repressed Victorian attitude towards sex (also found in the 'be celibate' doctrine of some Hindu sects) and a lack of education into making the at home sex the best ever.

Edited to add: http://www.hinduwebsite.com/hinduism/h_extramarital.asp

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
27 October 2010, 05:07 PM
I would agree mostly with this, Scott, but not all of this statement. My father is a very pious man, coming from a traditional Catholic home that used to be covered in images of the Virgin Mary, the Sacred Heart (which even die-hard Protestant idol haters use to decorate their homes), etc. It's a funny thing to say that Christians don't believe in using idols for worship, because it is not at all true - in which case, they're either very seriously in denial about what constitutes an idol or else just complete hypocrites.

According to Catholic theology, there are three words that are translated in English as 'worship'. Latria refers to the veneration due to God alone. Dulia is closer to 'veneration' and hyperdulia is a special form of veneration given only to the Virgin Mary for her exalted status as the Mother of God. The images found in Catholic homes are like family photos - their purpose is to remind people of Jesus, the Virgin Mary and the Saints. Catholics do not worship the images (although Thomas Aquinas said that Christ's cross and the image of Christ should be worshipped with latria) and if they pray to the Saints it is only to ask the Saints to pray to God on their behalf.


Even the cross that symbolises Christianity is an idol when people kneel before it in Mass.

Catholics believe that Jesus is truly present in the Blessed Sacrament (the consecrated bread) which is kept in the Tabernacle and consecrated during the Mass. When Catholics kneel at Mass in a church before an altar, they are kneeling to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament (which nowadays is not kept on the altar but in a separate place). The Crucifix is a decoration reminding Catholics to be mindful of the suffering Jesus went through in order to secure their salvation.


Vannakkam Sunyata: In my Tamil community, divorce is a BIG issue, even in a young couple that made a mistake. There is ostracism (nicknamed the Tamil squeeze) in the worse case scenarios, and loneliness because of it. In some sects and groups, remarriage is 'forbidden' although of course a person may break this by their own volition. But certainly, the divorce rate is low. In 30 + years of living in a this Sri Lankan Tamil community, not once have I heard of adultery. Either it never happens, or people are sure quiet about it.

I don't know what the divorce rate in Malaysia is among Tamil Indian couples, but I know it does happen. I remember reading in the paper that the majority of Indian divorces result from interfering in-laws.

I saw in Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami's Nandinatha Sutras that remarriage is forbidden. What would happen if one of his followers got divorced and remarried? Would they be "excommunicated"?

I have no idea what the shastras say on divorce and remarriage. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Eastern Mind
27 October 2010, 05:27 PM
I saw in Satguru Sivaya Subramuniyaswami's Nandinatha Sutras that remarriage is forbidden. What would happen if one of his followers got divorced and remarried? Would they be "excommunicated"?

I have no idea what the shastras say on divorce and remarriage. Anyone care to enlighten me?

Vannakkam Scott: I don't know the answer to either question. I know divorce is acceptable in both cases for a variety of good reasons like physical abuse. As far as I know there is no 'excommunication' within Subramuniyaswami's SSC but I could be wrong. There have been members who moved on for various reasons as he was known for his strictness, as you know. Times (and policies get updated) change as well.

Aum Namasivaya

sunyata07
28 October 2010, 07:19 AM
Namaste,

Thanks for the lesson, Scott. I was a Catholic for most of my life, so I am familiar with most of their beliefs. But latria, dulia, and hyperdulia? These words are new to me, and they never taught us anything like that in our religion classes or even mentioned at Mass.

But at the same time, I think It's one thing for the Church to write the philosophy of their worship for scholars and theologists to read, and another thing for a layperson to see an image of Our Lady of Lourdes and join his hands in prayer before it. Maybe it's an Irish thing, but there are Madonna murtis everywhere, many of them often without the infant Christ, just Her. There are grottos and shrines all over the place, where people will leave flowers and candles at the feet of the statue. I can't see how that is not worship. Prayer and worship are synonymous to me, and always will be. But then again, you are speaking about the official stance of RC theology, so I will concede that point to you.

Om namah Shivaya

Eastern Mind
28 October 2010, 07:30 AM
Vannakkam: To just add a bit to Sunyata's post ... When I was in Mauritius, there were shrines on every second corner. They all looked basically the same ... until you looked inside. So a Hindu person could be walking along, see a shrine up ahead, pick a flower, then once actually in front of the shrine, see a Mary, or a plain cross. So it was an obvious attempt by the Catholic Church to mimick the local worship right back to the days of Iles de Maurice. The other funny thing was that both sides felt that the higher up a mountain you go physically, the more important the shrine would be. So you'd go up some mountain path, and find a Hindu temple, then a Catholic shrine, then a Hindu shrine, etc. Idols? Yes of course.

Aum Namasivaya

ScottMalaysia
28 October 2010, 03:32 PM
Thanks for the lesson, Scott. I was a Catholic for most of my life, so I am familiar with most of their beliefs. But latria, dulia, and hyperdulia? These words are new to me, and they never taught us anything like that in our religion classes or even mentioned at Mass.

You shouldn't be surprised. The Catholic Church doesn't instruct the faithful properly since Vatican II. I've heard of RCIA classes with very little (if any) mention of Mary and the saints. The Catholic Church has become very "Protestantised" over the last 40 years. You may not hear hell or even sin, key Catholic teachings, mentioned at the modern Mass, which is designed so that a person can live a non-Catholic life six days of the week and not feel bad when he goes to Mass on Sunday.

If you want a detailed explanation of these terms, then see the Christian worship (http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/15710a.htm) article at the Catholic Encyclopedia.


But at the same time, I think It's one thing for the Church to write the philosophy of their worship for scholars and theologists to read, and another thing for a layperson to see an image of Our Lady of Lourdes and join his hands in prayer before it. Maybe it's an Irish thing, but there are Madonna murtis everywhere, many of them often without the infant Christ, just Her. There are grottos and shrines all over the place, where people will leave flowers and candles at the feet of the statue. I can't see how that is not worship. Prayer and worship are synonymous to me, and always will be. But then again, you are speaking about the official stance of RC theology, so I will concede that point to you.

Yes, you're quite right. Many Catholics who venerate the Virgin Mary are probably not familiar with the distinction between the terms latria and hyperdulia. They've just been taught to say the Rosary, or the Memorare, or any number of Marian prayers, without understanding the ideas behind it. I remember reading about how an Eastern Orthodox Christian prayed to Mary to protect them on a journey.

RVR
01 December 2010, 03:01 AM
India has the lowest divorce rates in the world.

May be arranged marriages prevailing in India are more sustainable than the love marriages in the western world.

I wish western world learn good habits from India

All the best

Eastern Mind
01 December 2010, 07:25 AM
India has the lowest divorce rates in the world.


Vannakkam: Or ... maybe the social stigma against divorce is so high that very few take the risk of it and stay in unhealthy or abusive relationships instead.

Personally, I tend to agree with you, but it is clearly an individual matter. I've seen some downright dysfunctional and abusive Hindu marriages. This is similar to 2 or 3 generations ago in the west, where some women stayed with their husbands not out of love, but for survival. They simply had nowhere else to go. Men, by law, held land and ownership rights.

On the other hand, I've seen some long term common-law relationships that seem incredibly healthy with no marriage at all to bind the couple.

So I think there would have to be a ton of data or research in order for me to accept such sweeping generalisations.

Aum Namasivaya

PARAM
01 December 2010, 08:25 AM

This is not a new thing, it was done before time
Even Parshuram who was declared as enemy of Kshatriyas was married to Kshatriya King Sudas' daughter. Parshuram's descendants are also Sudas'.

saidevo
01 December 2010, 09:44 AM
namaste Param.

I am a bit surprised you suggest that mere mortal Hindus take a ViShNu avatAra as an example! For such comparisons, sages like KAnchi ParamAcharya and RamaNa would say, first acquire the divine capabilties of the person you are comparing and then you can do as they did.



This is not a new thing, it was done before time
Even Parshuram who was declared as enemy of Kshatriyas was married to Kshatriya King Sudas' daughter. Parshuram's descendants are also Sudas'.

PARAM
02 December 2010, 10:12 AM


Saideo, this is only an example, and Parshuram is not a mortal, He is one of the immortals

This was an example for who thinks Brahmins and Kshatriyas are enemy because of Parshuram but the descendants of Parshuram are themselves belongs to Kshatriya mother also.

RVR
15 December 2010, 05:17 AM
India has the lowest divorce rates in the world.

http://www.darndivorce.com/divorce-rates-around-the-world/

But divorce rates in India are in the increase now.

I wish some body makes a research and publish the same so that people all over the world can follow India for a successful married life.

All the best

Eastern Mind
15 December 2010, 07:00 AM
India has the lowest divorce rates in the world.

http://www.darndivorce.com/divorce-rates-around-the-world/

But divorce rates in India are in the increase now.

I wish some body makes a research and publish the same so that people all over the world can follow India for a successful married life.

All the best

Vannakkam RVR: I find it interesting that none of the stricter Islamic nations are on the list. Perhaps they don't keep statistics or wouldn't release them to the folks who compiled the data. Certainly India's citizens should be commended for ranking so high, but no such survey can be accurate measuring 'successful' marriage by only one factor ... divorce rate. This rate wouldn't include separations, disharmony, or adultery for examples. Neither would it include men who drop their family dharmas to go wandering as 'sannyasins'. I personally know several Indian marriages that fall into such categories. For example two I know are gay men forced into early marriage by family pressure. So the figure is probably closer to 5% or higher, not the 1.1 mentioned in the data. Still its commendable. Personally, I think logical (where common sense prevails) arranged marriages are the best.

Aum Namasivaya

Ramakrishna
07 January 2011, 07:55 PM
Namaste,

Interesting article from the BBC: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-south-asia-12094360?print=true

Divorce rates are indeed rising in India, and at alarmingly high levels. It's very interesting what the article says is one of the main factors in this record rise in divorces. People are getting too caught up with their jobs and the rising economy has led to more materialism and consumerism, rather than an emphasis on family values.

Jai Sri Ram

TheOne
18 January 2011, 04:19 PM
Interracial marriages, yes of course as long as both partners are willing to contribute their share of sacrifice for the marriage.

Intercaste marriages I feel are perfectly fine as long as one knows his/her duties in her caste and carries them out diligently.

Now for the tough one, Interfaith Marriages. As long as both spouses are aware of the others beliefs and respects them and won't attempt to convert the other and its agreed upon in which faith the children will be raised in than I feel that it is perfectly fine. Of course it would be beneficial for a Hindu to marry a Hindu for innumerable reasons but its better for a marriage between a Muslim man and a Hindu Women whose love transcends their differences as opposed to a Hindu man marrying a certain women because she comes from a rich family and he has little intention of putting his utmost to provide for her and the family monetarily and spiritually.