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yajvan
16 July 2010, 12:37 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namasté


I encountered this question in some of my reading:
If gravity can leak out of our universe is it possible
gravity can leak in ( from another universe) ?

The presupposition that I find most curious about this question is:
Gravity leaking as if it were a material or ~fluid~. I get the idea of leaking as a verbal choice of words to depict 'loss' yet struggle with the following concepts.

As far as I know we measure gravity by its effects i.e. falling objects, repulsion, acceleration, etc. Yet science is not absolutely sure what it is as an element considered a graviton (tattva) but can view its affects as a force¹. I look to be corrected or reminded of the correct way gravity should be viewed.
Leaking to another universe - this for me is difficult to consider. I view the universe as uni + verse or Unity ( one whole) + diversity (the many). So universe is the unity of all diversity into One. One what? Some say 'system' others say macrocosm, others of spiritual intent may say the body of śiva. Yet my brain cramp is this - how can there be more then 1 universe if by definition it is all inclusive. Some would then like to offer the notion of a macro-universe composed of component universes , the same way a cluster of galaxies are called a super-cluster.
It seems to me this (macro-universe or super-universe) only adds complexity that is unneeded.
What if this gravity just leaks out of the universe and we are just not concerned with another universe. Well my question would be what would gravity leak into? Some would say well, space.
And my answer would be is not space a component of the universe ? How can it be separate? And where is the dividing line between universe and non-universe .
Okay it does not leak into space but into consciousness... and my answer is, this too citta or cidākāśa is part of the universe we reside in. The whole universe engulfs and holds within itself cittākāśa + bhūtākāśa +cidākāśa or consciousness-space, the element of space and mind-space and all that resides within these dimensions. And, it holds within itself dik or diś , the 10 directions¹.Perhaps ( just perhaps) when science breaks the code of unifying the 4 forces ( strong, weak, electromagnetic and gravity) gravity may show us its real nature. Yet for me this unity will not be done by pen and paper but by the realization of Being - then all forces are One.

praṇām

words

The force of gravity is in Newtons.
10 directions - diś is known as a quarter or region pointed at , direction , cardinal point. We know them as 4 + 4 + 2.
4 = N,S,E,W + 4 = NE, SE, NW, SW + 2= upa-diśām (up) and diśām pati some call dik-pati (below).
diśām or diśā = direction , region , quarter or point of the compass

atanu
16 July 2010, 01:13 PM
hariḥ oṁ
------
Okay it does not leak into space but into consciousness... and my answer is, this too citta or cidākāśa is part of the universe we reside in. The whole universe engulfs and holds within itself cittākāśa + bhūtākāśa +cidākāśa or consciousness-space, the element of space and mind-space and all that resides within these dimensions. And, it holds within itself dik or diś , the 10 directions¹.
Perhaps ( just perhaps) when science breaks the code of unifying the 4 forces ( strong, weak, electromagnetic and gravity) gravity may show us its real nature. Yet for me this unity will not be done by pen and paper but by the realization of Being - then all forces are One.

praṇām



Namaste yajvanji

I think i understand what you mean when you say: The whole universe engulfs and holds within itself cittākāśa + bhūtākāśa +cidākāśa.

But will it not be better to say that the whole Universe (which is perceptual) is held within Chidakasa (which is the ground of mind and all perceptions)?

Regarding the four kinds of forces:

Some quantum physicists now talk of an implicate order, which gave rise to consciousness and unified field, which in turn gave rise within it 4 kinds of force fields: weak nuclear, strong nuclear, electromagnetic and gravitational. Calculations, it seems, show that at very high temperatures (more than the temperature in the core of the sun) that existed prior to the big bang, four force fields were indistinct – only unified field belonging to the implicate order acted as ONE. It would appear that after the big bang, the unified force field has given way to different kinds of force fields. Not so. At infinitively small distances (Planck distances), the unified field works all the time as ONE.

Physicists however do not think that they can ever scientifically know what was before Big Bang --- since the eternal being/implicate order is beyond time. However, it is implicitly understood that such implicate order would have known in full the future developments; else He would not have created very exact conditions that would create so-called future beings who would enjoy the party. How would be a party where no invitees came? So, there is probably an eternal seer, some physicists aver.

Moreover, who enjoys the party and who sees everything now? Again physics has isolated a part in Heisenberg quantum equations that represent an eternal participant.


I hypothesise that the Implicate Order has ONE force field. The earth, the sun, the moon, the beings have their respective personal force fields, which however are not their own and which are not independent.


Om Namah Shivaya

yajvan
16 July 2010, 02:02 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~~

namasté atanu,


Namaste yajvanji

I think i understand what you mean when you say: The whole universe engulfs and holds within itself cittākāśa + bhūtākāśa +cidākāśa.

But will it not be better to say that the whole Universe (which is perceptual) is held within Chidakasa (which is the ground of mind and all perceptions)?

Regarding the four kinds of forces:

At infinitely small distances (Planck distances), the unified field works all the time as ONE.

Physicists however do not think that they can ever scientifically know what was before Big Bang ---

Moreover, who enjoys the party and who sees everything now? Again physics has isolated a part in Heisenberg quantum equations that represent an eternal participant.

I hypothesise that the Implicate Order has ONE force field. The earth, the sun, the moon, the beings have their respective personal force fields, which however are not their own and which are not independent.

regarding cidākāśa: yes I see your point.
re: small distances - this makes sense , as one goes from the macro to the micro differences become less and less. This seems easy to grasp.
At our level of perception all bodies seem solid, yet as we physically look within we see the components i.e. elements --> molecules --> atoms --> particles --> sub-atomic particles, etc. The differences become less and the unity becomes more.
re: Big bang - I am not much of a fan of this notion. One physicist said a better name is the 'big unfoldment' - that seems a bit more palatable to me, yet that is neither here-or-there.
That that said, the notion of membranes look attractive to me. Then there is not one-point, but multiple creative actions that occur when these membranes interact - that just seems more intuitively correct to me.
re: the eternal participant . Yes this is delightful to consider. Many times I use the word 'Being'. Yet my teacher on many occasions would say 'the Being'.thank you again for your ideas and advancing the conversation.

praṇām

atanu
16 July 2010, 10:53 PM
hariḥ oṁ
Perhaps ( just perhaps) when science breaks the code of unifying the 4 forces ( strong, weak, electromagnetic and gravity) gravity may show us its real nature. Yet for me this unity will not be done by pen and paper but by the realization of Being - then all forces are One.



Namaste Yajvanji

Here I intuitively agree. Science will probably some day be able to measure the gravitational force of emotions: Love vis-a-vis Hatred/Aversion. The time seems to be light and flying when one is in love and reverse when all things in the surroundings oppose. I have conveyed this to my physicist brother but he is past his prime of creative period. Professional young scientists like Sanjaya may like to ponder.

There is probably only one kind of force. Veda speaks of flow of Soma (flow of bliss), which is called the primeval auspicious Shiva energy. In deep sleep everything is pulled in by this all powerful attraction and though the world disappears but it is bliss undiluted. Scientists talk of gravitational force bending light and in case of Black holes absorbing light altogether. Does not the same thing happen in deep sleep, when there are no opposing desires in mind? One (rather the Being) partitions this unparted bliss, which is the ultimate garavitational pull to taste it diversely -- such as in taste, in fragrance, in loving embrace, in sight, in fervent bliss of orgasm and so forth. When what is desired is not granted then this force takes an opposite hue and becomes repulsion and quality of time becomes heavy.

Similarly the theoretical division of the Unified force field into four kinds of forces is an artefact of mind -- each kind of force field explaining some observed particular situation better. Scientists now try to unify these mind constructed force fields but probably cause more divisions endlessly.

I also believe that the realization of the Being is the end of realisation of the primeval unbroken force field, which Veda calls as bliss of the Self. Upanishads do teach that all is known when brahman is known. Moreover I also think that no force ever leaks, but only acts to attract or repel.

Om Namah Shivaya

sanjaya
19 July 2010, 01:41 AM
Yajvan, looks like you've been busy while I was away. Just wanted to let you know that this post hasn't eluded me. I'll have to read your ideas carefully when I get the time.

Eastern Mind
22 July 2010, 01:21 PM
Vannakkam

Gravity varies around the planet slightly. Check out this map. Notice the area that has the least gravity.

http://www.technoezine.com/satellite-creates-first-global-gravity-map-of-earth

Aum Namasivaya

atanu
23 July 2010, 12:34 PM
Vannakkam

Gravity varies around the planet slightly. Check out this map. Notice the area that has the least gravity.

http://www.technoezine.com/satellite-creates-first-global-gravity-map-of-earth

Aum Namasivaya

Its interesting EM. Thank you for finding it. Geoscientists use gravity-magnetic maps to find sedimentary thicknesses. The huge anomaly shown here is so prominent and seems to tally with sage of Arunachala's saying that Arunachala is the centre, the axis of the world. He predicts that there should be something similar on the opposite side of the globe, near Andes.

Thanks

Om Namah Shivaya