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Shanti
09 August 2010, 05:26 PM
Why can't they just leave us be?


http://yahwehyoga.com/about/christian-yoga/
http://praisemoves.com/
http://holyyoga.net/
http://www.christianyoga.com/index.htm


You know not too long ago I had an online "discussion" with a group of christians who were opposed to practicing yoga because they felt it to be part of the Hindu religion (rightly so). I liked them better, at least they were being honest to themselves.

yajvan
09 August 2010, 07:03 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté


IMHO if Christians practiced the yoga we find in patañjali’s yogadarśana (the yoga sutras of patañjali) the world would be a better place and we would see a difference in society, perhaps within a year or two.
The 'yoga' they are thinking is haṭha yoga and more about āsana-s then samādhi. Perhaps it is a start?

What yoga comes to mind for me ( and others here on HDF ) is:
yoga योग rooted in yuj the act of yoking , joining , attaching, harnessing. But to what? To the Supreme, to bind one back to the source, to yoke one back to anuttara ( the Supreme). Yoga is also defined as a means , expedient , device , way , manner , a method.

Hence with 'method' we get various yoga-s; here are some of the names of the major approaches:

rāja ( some write rāj ) राज- king , sovereign , chief or best of its kind
karma (some write karman) कर्मन्- action consisting in motion ; act, special duty, skill in action
jñāna ज्ञान - knowing , becoming acquainted with , knowledge , (esp.) the higher knowledge of SELF, Supreme.
bhākti or bhākta भाक्त - ' the faithful ones'
haṭha yoga हठ - 'by force' ; ' necessarily , inevitably , by all means
kriyā क्रिया - action; doing , performing , performance , occupation. For me this looks much like a definition for karma yogaVaśiṣṭa speaking to king Karaka ( of Janaka's race) - mahābhārata , śānti parva ( or parvan division or section)

When men of knowledge, conversant with the rules of yoga, become as fixed (steady) as a stake of wood, and as immovable as a mountain then they are said to be in yoga. When one does not hear , and smell, and taste, and see ; when one is not conscious of any touch; when one's mind becomes perfectly free from every purpose; when one's mind becomes perfectly free from every thought, then is one called the wise to be in perfect yoga.

praṇām

words
āsana is defined as 'sitting down' yet we know this name too as poses of the body i.e. padmāsana , bhadrāsana , vajrāsana , vīrāsana , svastikāsana, etc.

Sahasranama
10 August 2010, 12:07 AM
केवलं राज-योगाय हठ-विद्योपदिश्यते || २ ||
Yogin Swâtmârâma, after saluting first his Gurû Srinâtha explains Haṭha Yoga for the attainment of Raja Yoga alone.
(hatha yoga pradipika)

It's funny, there is no such thing as Christian Yoga. It's an oxymoron. There used to be a time when orthodox Christians performed "Christian fitness" and avoided any influence from eastern spirituality like yoga and martial arts at all cost. It's the progressive Christians who practice "Christian Yoga." Yoga should be open to everyone, but there's no need to distort yoga and call it Christian. That makes as much sense as celebrating Hindu Christmas or Hindu Eastern. Christians want to use the popularity of yoga to promote their own religious beliefs, prevent Christians from "falling into" eastern spirituality by sanctifying the practice of yoga and make money out of Christian people who want to do yoga.

Many Indian gurus are to blame for this development. Yogananda Paramahansa was basically a spreading Christianity with his teachings. Swamis like Shivananda and Vivekananda promoted the worship Jesus Christ. The popular Indian yoga guru, Swami Ramadev prays not only to Ishvara when he is on television, but also to Allah and Isai. Many modern Indian gurus, in their political correctness, have done nothing to make clear that yoga is part of Hinduism, in contrast they have stimulated Christians to practice yoga in a Christian manner. Many western yoga teachers, who do practice Hinduism, have removed any spiritual or religious element from their teachings, in order not to offend the large variety of students.

Hatha yoga is not very popular amongst Hindus. Most hatha yogis are westerners. I have visited several yoga classes and I have never seen an Indian in the class. If we want to reclaim yoga, we have to practice it. We can't outsource everything to the westerners. Hindus need to get excited about hatha yoga and look for the roots of yoga in hinduism. Both westerners and Indians are to blame for the degradation of yoga. If we leave everything in the hands of non Hindus, there's no one to stop them from defiling Hinduism by teaching classes like Christian Yoga, Tantric Sex or some new age voodoo. More hindus need to teach authentic Hindu yoga.

One thing I like about Ashtanga Yoga of Sri Pattabhi Jois, is that every class starts with some sanskrit shlokas for the guru and for patanjali. http://www.ashtangayoga.info/philosophy/mantras/ashtanga-yoga-mantra/


auṁ
OM


vande gurunam charanaravinde
sandarshita svatma sukhava bodhe |

वन्दे गुरुणां चरणारविन्दे
सन्दर्शित स्वात्म सुखाव बोधे ।
vande guruṇāṁ caraṇāravinde
sandarśita svātma sukhāva bodhe |
We meditate to the lotusfeet of our great teacher,
who uncovers our true self and awakens happiness

vande (वन्दे, vande) = (1. pers. pl of vad (वद्, vad)) praise
gurunam (गुरुणां, guruṇāṁ) = great teacher, master, guru
charana (चरणा, caraṇā) = (pl.) feet
ravinde (रविन्दे, ravinde) = Lotus
sandarshita (सन्दर्शित, sandarśita) = uncover
sv atma (स्वात्म, sv-ātma) = the own Self
sukhava (सुखाव, sukhāva) = happiness, bliss
bodhe (बोधे, bodhe) = awaken


nih shreyase jangali kayamane
sansara halahala mohashantyai ||

निःश्रेयसे जाङ्गलिकायमाने
संसार हालाहल मोहशान्त्यै ॥
niḥ-śreyase jāṅgali-kāyamāne
saṁsāra hālāhala mohaśāntyai ||
Like a Shaman in the Jungle he brings total complete well-beeing.
He can even heal the most awful poision of conditioning and illusion.

nih (निः, niḥ) = (part.) reinforcing Partikel, very, thorough
shreyase (श्रेयसे, śreyase) = well-beeing, happiness, joy
jangali (जाङ्गलि, jāṅgali) = jungle
kayamane (कायमाने, kāyamāne) = Ojne who has knowledge about healing, who heales, a healer, shaman
jangali kayamane (जाङ्गलिकायमाने, jāṅgali-kāyamāne) = jungle shamans. In the 9. century when those verses were created the jungle shamans were the best doctors.They had huge knowledge about medicinal plants and leaves and they could heal a variety of illnesses. In India their fame exists until today.
sansara (संसार, saṁsāra) = Conditioning, wheel of cause and result
halahala (हालाहल, hālāhala) = most awful conceivable poison
moha (मोह, moha) = deceit, deception, illusion
shantyai (शान्त्यै, śāntyai) = (imperativ pass. sg. From shant (शान्त्, śānt)) ease, calm down


abahu purushakaran
shankhachakrasi dharinam |

आबाहु पुरुषाकारं
शङ्खचक्रासि धारिणम् ।
ābāhu puruṣākāraṁ
śaṅkhacakrāsi dhāriṇam |
The upper body of human shape, carrying
a mussel horn (original tone), a discus (infinity) and a sword (power of differentiation)

abahu (आबाहु, ābāhu) = upper body
purusha (पुरुष, puruṣa) = (m.) human being, man, soul
akaram (आकारम्, ākāram) = (acc. of akara (आकर, ākara)) shape, appearance, form
shhankha (श्हङ्ख, śhaṅkha) = (acc.) mussel horn. The horn symbolises the tone
ँौं that is considered to be the original tone and the basis of all that is.
chakra (चक्र, cakra) = (acc.) Wheel, Discus. The Chakra represents infinity
asi (असि, asi) = (acc.) Sword, because sword represents the power of differentiation. Not applicable here: you are (2. pers. sg.), because of the word order
dharinam (धारिणम्, dhāriṇam) = holding, carrying


sahasra shirasam shvetan
pranamami patanjalim ||

सहस्र शिरसं श्वेतं
प्रणमामि पतञ्जलिम् ॥
sahasra śirasaṁ śvetaṁ
praṇamāmi patañjalim ||
having 1000 bright heads,
I bow to Patanjali.

sahasra (सहस्र, sahasra) = 1000
shirasam (शिरसं, śirasaṁ) = (akk. sg.) Head
shvetam (श्वेतं, śvetaṁ) = (akk. sg.) white, bright
pranamami (प्रणमामि, praṇamāmi) = (1. pers. sg.) I bow
patanjalim (पतञ्जलिम्, patañjalim) = (akk. sg.) to Patanjali, the Author of the Yoga-Sutra. This work is considered to be one of the most important philosophical basis’ of Ashtanga-Vinyasa-Yoga


aum


auṁ
om

Eastern Mind
10 August 2010, 06:49 AM
Vannakkam:

It is ironic that the mind flow of the east is creeping into the west just as we complain that Christianity is a cancer in the East.

Christian yoga is an oxymoron indeed. I believe the teachers are doing a great disservice to the students by not teaching it from a Hindu perspective. What happens when the external mind is quieted? A natural outcome is the inner mind becoming more available. The person may indeed experience insights, or temporary blissful moments. Over a longer period of time, the quieting of the mind may lead to truth, such as seeing God in all things, or insights into karma, or reincarnation.

Then what happens is that the person becomes confused. The Christian teachings don`t back these things up. Creating confusion is adharmic.

Aum Namasivaya

sm78
10 August 2010, 07:59 AM
Creating confusion is adharmic.

Indeed...besides its just a retention strategy of the church machinery. Yoga (even if its only understood as physical gymnastics) is too powerful in west to ignore. Even secular yoga may ultimately lead a curious student to its spiritual source - a christian yoga minimizes such a possibility.

Shanti
10 August 2010, 09:26 AM
If we want to reclaim yoga, we have to practice it. We can't outsource everything to the westerners.

Agreed. I quit teaching yoga after my first child and quit practicing all together after my second. This may be just the kick in the rear I need to get me going again.

Shanti
10 August 2010, 09:29 AM
Then what happens is that the person becomes confused. The Christian teachings don`t back these things up. Creating confusion is adharmic.

Aum Namasivaya

Good point. I think when I briefly scanned through those websites I read something about meditating on jesus, or chanting the bible or something. This makes me wonder if there mind would even become quiet enough though.

Shanti
10 August 2010, 09:37 AM
Yoga (even if its only understood as physical gymnastics) is too powerful in west to ignore. Even secular yoga may ultimately lead a curious student to its spiritual source - a christian yoga minimizes such a possibility.

Yes this, even when practicing purely physical yoga, the awareness of the breath is a powerful component. Taking the focus to something external (jesus/bible) negates the beauty of yoga.

Alise
10 August 2010, 04:23 PM
Namaste,

I wrote to everyone of them. I must say, they won't reply, but maybe will read. I believe that since there are enough Christians who openly says that Hinduism is sooo bad & so evil & so made by devil, that they should not take something from Sanathana Dharma and not even give credit OR say that yoga predates Hinduism OR that it's secular without any religion!
What next - Christian ayurveda?

Have a nice day,
~Alice

Eastern Mind
10 August 2010, 04:28 PM
Namaste,

I wrote to everyone of them. I must say, they won't reply, but maybe will read. I believe that since there are enough Christians who openly says that Hinduism is sooo bad & so evil & so made by devil, that they should not take something from Sanathana Dharma and not even give credit OR say that yoga predates Hinduism OR that it's secular without any religion!
What next - Christian ayurveda?

Have a nice day,
~Alice

Vannakkam: It is truly appreciated from here when you walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I'm really glad you put words into action. I shall follow your lead. if either of us gets a response let's share it. This is the message I sent them.

"My prayer is that you stop using a Hindu theological system and calling it your own. Yoga is Hindu. Not only that, but when someone dives deep into yoga, they will surely encounter truths that will confuse them, being contradictory to Christianity. Are you in the business of confusing people? "

Aum Namasivaya

Aum Namasivaya

Ramakrishna
10 August 2010, 09:21 PM
Namaste,

The Hindu American Foundation launched its "Take Yoga Back" campaign a few months ago. This was after the great yoga debate between Aseem Shukla and Deepak Chopra. The Hindu roots of yoga are undeniable, and I was taken aback at Mr. Chopra denying that.

http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/takeyogaback

http://newsweek.washingtonpost.com/onfaith/undergod/2010/04/shukla_and_chopra_the_great_yoga_debate.html



I wrote to everyone of them. I must say, they won't reply, but maybe will read. I believe that since there are enough Christians who openly says that Hinduism is sooo bad & so evil & so made by devil, that they should not take something from Sanathana Dharma and not even give credit OR say that yoga predates Hinduism OR that it's secular without any religion!
What next - Christian ayurveda?



Vannakkam: It is truly appreciated from here when you walk the walk, not just talk the talk. I'm really glad you put words into action. I shall follow your lead. if either of us gets a response let's share it. This is the message I sent them.

"My prayer is that you stop using a Hindu theological system and calling it your own. Yoga is Hindu. Not only that, but when someone dives deep into yoga, they will surely encounter truths that will confuse them, being contradictory to Christianity. Are you in the business of confusing people? "

Aum Namasivaya


Great idea. I'm going to write to them as well. Even if they don't respond, all of these people contacting them will surely give them something to think about.

Jai Sri Krishna

saidevo
10 August 2010, 10:24 PM
namaste.

The Council of Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR), India, has a Website named Traditional Knowledge Digital Library (TKDL) that seeks to curb such practices. Since the Website mentions Yoga as one of their active areas, I have sent the following mail to the two authorities whose email-ids are given in their 'Contact Us' link:
http://www.tkdl.res.in/tkdl/langdefault/common/contactus.asp?GL=Eng

My mail:
Since I find that TKDL also deals with Yoga, whose roots are undeniably in Hinduism, I would request you to kindly look into the following Websites that try to hijack and dilute our Yoga practices with an eye on their business promotion.
http://yahwehyoga.com/about/christian-yoga/
http://www.christianyoga.com/index.htm

Sahasranama
11 August 2010, 12:46 AM
Namaste,

The Hindu American Foundation launched its "Take Yoga Back" campaign a few months ago. This was after the great yoga debate between Aseem Shukla and Deepak Chopra. The Hindu roots of yoga are undeniable, and I was taken aback at Mr. Chopra denying that.


I am not suprised about Deepak Chopra, his interests in Hinduism and ayurveda are purely commercial. I have read some chapters of his books and they are full with new age quackery.


Agreed. I quit teaching yoga after my first child and quit practicing all together after my second. This may be just the kick in the rear I need to get me going again.

This is the best thing you can do as a Hindu to keep yoga pure. Yoga need to be thaught from a Hindu perspective, otherwise it loses it's power. The problem is that the Hindu perspective is getting lost in classes and are replaced with other themes, like physical fitness or christianity.

I don't think sending letters to the Christians is going to change anything! They will not listen, when did Christians ever listen to logic and reason? While Hindus are sending angry letters, the Christians are giving yoga classes and taking over our heritage. Meanwhile, what are we doing to spread yoga from a Hindu perspective? Sending letters to the "Christian Yogis" will only motivate them further, because they will know they are making an impact. Let's not encourage them with our frustration.

Maybe a better idea, is to write calm and sensible comments on their blog whenever they misrepresent yoga and keep remembering them of the Hindu origin of yoga. The blog comments can be read by everyone visiting the website. http://yahwehyoga.com/

http://www.hafsite.org/media/pr/takeyogaback

Paris-Izi
11 August 2010, 06:10 AM
Namaste.

I don't think 'western yoga' with it's emaphasis upon asana rather than samadhi is necessarily bad. God works in misterious ways to spiritually develop human beings - perhaps asana emphasised 'western yoga' is something that appeals to the western mind according to its current level of spiritual advancement. As a westerner myself, I became strongly drawn to this type of yoga which appeals to a lot of UK woman based on the coverage it gets in woman's magazines emphasising its weight loss and de-stressing benefits. Although my primary occupation with 'yoga' was also in relation to how it could benefit my body, this occupation gradually diminished as I progressed in asana and I found myself becoming more and more interested in meditation and the true meaning of yoga.

NetiNeti
11 August 2010, 10:00 AM
If one wants to practice yogic postures for health benefits, I see no problem with that. It is a good way to spend time and exercise. One need not chant or be Hindu to enjoy its physical benefits. The practice is a gift from god and when it is done PURELY as exercise, like at the ymca, it is cool in my book. It also has amazing results as a tool for physical rehabilitation after injury

I do take issue with people denying yoga's roots though. When one begins to sell it as a spiritual path but totally forgets that it is not a free-for-all practice that fits any way of life. When you diverge from the physical aspect you begin to dwell in an ancient and very specific tradition that, IMO, belongs to Hindus. Using yoga spiritually outside of its original intentions is making a mockery of a religious science that was fine-tuned thousands of years ago and specifically prescribed by Krishna in the Gita.

When I meet new-age people who "go to yoga" and they tell me how they had fun chanting mantras and burning nag champa, I ask them if they are aware that yoga extends far beyond the walls of a yoga studio. In order to use Yoga to attain God-awareness, they must practice all forms of yoga and refine themselves into a true yogi. Without that, they are simply stretching and then rattling of some meaningless foreign language. Doing that is silly. Simply focus on the stretching is a worthwhile practice but it is not "yoga" in its true form. Its exercise. Its like kung-fu being taught without Taoism as its defining truth.

I do, on the other hand, feel that some yoga studios help Americans understand Hinduism better. By being exposed to Murti, mantras, etc, the average American gets a small taste of what we are about and becomes either
A) Curious
or
B) Tolerant


I don't mind either.

Eastern Mind
11 August 2010, 03:18 PM
Vannakkam NetiNeti: I totally agree about it being very useful as a stretching exercise. In fact it is quite in harmony with stretching dome by athletes. Most people don't realise how much stretching is in a world class athlete's routine. Swimming, track, football, you name it.. there's a ton of stretching. Mostly it is prevention of injuries.

But clearly some groups take it further,

Aum Namasivay

Shanti
16 August 2010, 12:51 PM
Sorry to disappear for a bit, just got back in town..

Saidevo, I too am going to send a message to TKDL. I remember sometime back listening to a radio show on NPR about a program/company in India that translates our heritage's yogic scriptures in order to make sure that traditional yoga would not get patented by yoga instructors in the States and elsewhere. There are apparently thousands of applications with the US patent office regarding yoga postures, techniques, etc. I'm wondering if this is the same company.

I will also send emails to these "x-tian yoga" promoting countries, nothing long, just if they are being honest with themselves and their jesus.

As sad as this is, it's also a bit laughable in the sense that this just highlights their religious delusions.

Sahasranama
16 August 2010, 01:28 PM
Most of these pansies couldn't handle the hardships of the Indian yogis if their life depended on it. They can all go to their fashionable yoga studio and do some stretching and toning, but don't have the cahonies to discipline themselves like real yogis. Yogis are tough, they don't come in groups to act so hypersensitive about the origins of yoga.

yajvan
16 August 2010, 04:38 PM
 
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



I remember sometime back listening to a radio show on NPR about a program/company in India that translates our heritage's yogic scriptures in order to make sure that traditional yoga would not get patented by yoga instructors in the States and elsewhere. There are apparently thousands of applications with the US patent office regarding yoga postures, techniques, etc. I'm wondering if this is the same company.

Today Bikram Choudhury has copyrights on 26 yogic postures. He has trademarked the name of his company, Bikram's Yoga College of India. He now owns or franchises Bikram Yoga studios in the USA and other countries.

I am saddened this occurred. Who can say they 'own' this knowledge? He says he doesn't own it, but copyrights the techniques, sequencing, approach, name, etc.

praṇām

Eastern Mind
16 August 2010, 06:04 PM
 
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté




Today Bikram Choudhury has copyrights on 26 yogic postures. He has trademarked the name of his company, Bikram's Yoga College of India.

He now owns or franchises Bikram Yoga studios in the USA and other countries.

I am saddened this occurred. Who can say they 'own' this knowledge? He says he doesn't own it, but copyrights the techniques, sequencing, approach, etc.

praṇām

Vannakkam: Silly stuff. So he's wandering around looking into the windows at various yoga studios to see if he can sue some poor humble yoga teacher because she's using his postures? Sounds like a pervert to me. Nuts, I say.

Sounds like when Harley-Davidson tried to patent the sound of a Harley. Wonder if they patented the oil leaks too.

I think someone should just go on TV and do some of his copyrighted postures and have him try to sue. A decent lawyer and a wise judge would have all this nonsense tossed out.

I think I'll try to patent air. Sheesh.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
16 August 2010, 06:37 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté EM,


A decent lawyer and a wise judge would have all this nonsense tossed out.

March 2005
Choudhury faced a challenge in a San Francisco courtroom, where a federal judge was hearing arguments in a lawsuit that some legal experts say could define a new frontier in intellectual property. At issue: Can Choudhury take a sequence of two breathing exercises and 26 yoga poses from an ancient Indian practice copyright it and control how it is practiced?

The case, says UCLA law professor Neil Netanel, "really depends on an issue that isn't covered in the law: What is the nature of yoga?"
Some legal experts believe the case could have broader implications, not just for yoga but for many forms of physical exercise.

Stanford University Law School professor Paul Goldstein said a decision in Choudhury's favor would have "clear implications for any other activity that entails a combination of movement and environment," such as choreography or martial arts. "It could also have implications for basketball plays, or football plays, if it were decided that way."

FYI The case was resolved out of court - hence the judge did not rule on it.

praṇām

Ekanta
16 August 2010, 06:47 PM
the postures:
http://www.yoga-108.net/bikram_postures.htm

If you look at posture 13 it means you have to pay $1296 a year to be allowed to sleep.

Eastern Mind
16 August 2010, 07:08 PM
for basketball plays, or football plays, if it were decided that way."

FYI The case was resolved out of court - hence the judge did not rule on it.

praṇām

Vannakkam Yajvan: If football plays got involved there would be a huge gawfuffle ... more interesting than the game itself. I just can't see any judge ruling in the favour of this type of thing. But if he makes a list of an order of postures, and someone else takes the instructions word for word, and the pictures of the poses, then yes that would break copyright laws. But patenting a pose or copyrighting a pose is like copyrighting a word. If its part of a jingle in advertising, a non-word if you like, well that's different.

But thanks for sharing this.

Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
16 August 2010, 07:34 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté EM,


Vannakkam Yajvan: If football plays got involved there would be a huge gawfuffle ... more interesting than the game itself. I just can't see any judge ruling in the favour of this type of thing. But if he makes a list of an order of postures, and someone else takes the instructions word for word, and the pictures of the poses, then yes that would break copyright laws. But patenting a pose or copyrighting a pose is like copyrighting a word. If its part of a jingle in advertising, a non-word if you like, well that's different.

Sure, I see your point. Bikram Choudhury's copyright is that the poses are done in a 'hot room' and in that specific sequence. His copy right says no one else can call it 'Bikram's Yoga'. That is what he is protecting.

So if you viewed a sign that said 'Bikram's Yoga' taught here, and that location was not a franchise, then Mr. Choudhury could take issue and take you to court.

That is my understanding on how all this unfolded. You ( not you specifically ) cannot call ( plagiarize) the name since it is copyrighted. The pickle is this approach recieved lots of attention and various yoga schools wished to leverage this popularity by saying we teach this 'Bikram's Yoga' here. That is the infraction. That started the court case.

praṇām

Shanti
23 August 2010, 05:20 PM
This article was in the Washington Post today
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/08/22/AR2010082203071.html?hpid=moreheadlines

This is similar to the story I heard on NPR awhile back. At least it's gaining more news coverage.

Sahasranama
24 August 2010, 12:59 AM
Discussion about Bikram and commercialism have been started elsewhere:
http://hindudharmaforums.com/showthread.php?t=5771&highlight=documentary

Let's keep this thread about "Christian Yoga."

Shanti
24 August 2010, 09:38 PM
Sorry about that, I didn't see the other thread until now.

Ashvati
24 August 2010, 09:51 PM
Am I the only one who thought of the position Christ is in when he's crucified being an asana for "christian yoga" and laughed at the image of a room full of upper-middle class white ppl in a gym practicing it?

Surya Deva
08 September 2010, 05:44 AM
Namaste,

I am of the opinion that Yoga is Hinduism and Hinduism is Yoga. I even find it hard to understand how a Christian or Muslim could practice Yoga, for Yoga contradicts their beliefs. The word 'Yoga' itself explains what the whole process is about: self-realization, the union of the individual consciousness with the divine consciousness, the reconnection with the absolute reality. A Christian does not want this, a Christian wants to enter the kingdom of god and have eternal life in a earth-like paradise in the afterlife. Similarly, a Muslim does not want this, a Muslim wants eternal life in heaven with his 72,000 virgins and nubile boys. So why are they practicing Yoga?

I have recently been posting on a popular Yoga forum online where I have become infamous for my unwaivering view that Yoga is Hinduism and Hinduism is Yoga. Here is some of the things I have been told on this forum, some of these statements have been made by people claiming to be Hindu as well.

Yoga is older than Hinduism
Yoga is only a part of Hinduism
Yoga has evolved beyond Hinduism
Yoga has nothing to do with Hinduism

It becomes very apparent the people who endorsing these views are either Westerners who have economic and psychological interests in portraying Yoga as a secular practice, and people from other religions(mainly Christian) who want to enjoy the benefits of Yoga and deny its Hindu connections to feel more secure about their practice. I think, what is sad, is that in the West this has become a majority viewpoint. The official American body of Yoga has now released a statement echoing the above views.

In addition to this Hindu notions such as reincarnation, self-realization, karma and reincarnation are being adoped by many new age and liberal Christians. They claim that these teachings are already within the bible and have reinterpreted many verses in the bible to back this up.

In my opinion I see this as nothing more than very blatant plagiarism. However, a part of me is thinking, is this perhaps the lila of god in urder to bring dharma back on this planet. If we allow this deception to continue that Yoga is not Hinduism and allow them to integrate all our teachings into their religion then we will have a world where everybody is practicing Yoga and all religions are teaching proper dharmic teachings, without calling it "Hinduism" Perhaps this deception is needed.

sunyata07
10 September 2010, 01:57 PM
Namaste Surya Deva,

I think the reason why some of the most basic and fundamental Hindu concepts (karma, reincarnation, God-consciousness) keep cropping up in other religious beliefs is because almost everyone sees the Truth in them.

I'm not going to go into a long discussion about how unhinged some Christian fundamentalists can be, but I will say that this rise in the number of Western yoga classes could be nothing more than a feeble attempt at reviving their religion. And they do this by hopping onto the bandwagon of indulging in the latest novelty in the West, whether that's yoga, Atkins diet or online dating. For the saner few, I can see how foreign terms in Sanskrit explaining spiritual concepts could seem intimidating.

Let's take a quick example. A good number of Christians that I know (and I can vouch for myself when I was still a Catholic not 2 years ago) believe in reincarnation. Strange, but for a considerable amount of them this is true. They even understand that karma means action, and the word itself has been adopted into mainstream English. But I want to point out how, here, language can morph so that the word fits the concept. Most people unfamiliar with a more detailed understanding of how karma almost see the term as being synonymous with retribution, when really it isn't all that simple. Language has a way of evolving, and I believe it's a very powerful way of shaping how people perceive something. To the extent that most people aren't even aware of this. Perhaps, you are right in saying some deception will be needed if we are to turn the tide against those falsely posing as yogis and yoga instructors, manipulating the teachings of a core element of Sanatana Dharma.

OM Shanti

Surya Deva
10 September 2010, 03:59 PM
Namaste Sunyata,

I think you are right that the concepts of karma, reincarnation and god-consciousness crop up in all religions(although relegated to the esoteric/gnostic sections) because they are the truth. Santana dharma is true not because we believe it to be true, but because it is based on eternal principles that have been verified again and again by seers in all ages. This makes our religion the only religion that is actually based on the accumulation of empirically verified truth. A true scientific religion.

The world is starting to realise this now that they have had it wrong all along and Hindusim was the true religion, so they are starting to assimilate its teachings in order to correct their own religion. However, without nary an acknowledgement to Hinduism.

If you talk to the average new-age Christian today they will admit to the following

1) They believe in karma and reincarnation
2) They believe in spiritual evolution
3) They believe in god-consciousness
4) They believe Jesus was an avatar
5) They practice Yoga and meditation
6) They believe in chakras and prana

I have to point out to these new-age Christians that they have more or less become Hindu and that none of the above teachings are a part of their religion. They resent this, saying that it is present in their religion in the Gnostic gospels and in the hidden meaning behind Jesus's teachings. Yet, what they do not realise their understanding of all the above is based on Hindu teachings(albeit diluted by the stupid filter of the new-age religion), not Christian teachings.

Unfortunately, in their mind Hinduism is a religion of many gods and goddesses, idol worship and caste system. They have psychologically separated out Yoga, meditation and Vedanta from Hinduism. In fact they think that is Buddhist. Now, I have engaged in very vigorous debates with these ignorant people, but it has been futile, and in the process they simply demonize me. Do you think we Hindus need to take a stand and get them to accept unconditionally that Yoga is Hinduism or should we let them have their way and assimilate Yoga, in hope that they become enlightened by doing so? After all Santana dharma, because it is the true religion of the cosmos, will always be true, whether you call it Hinduism or new-age spirituality.

Sahasranama
11 September 2010, 01:04 PM
Some thoughts about Buddhist yoga?

In the west it's assumed that yoga comes from Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism, not just from Hinduism.

All though Buddhist, Jains and Sikhs have adopted yoga practices, do you think you can be a yogi without being a Hindu? And if you think Jains, Sikhs and Buddhist can be yogis, is it a stretch to say that Christians and Jews can also be yogis?

(I am asking, because I had a conversation with someone about this)

In my opinion neither Buddhist, Sikhs, Jains, Christians nor Muslims can be called yogis. Because those faiths will not lead to the result of authentic Hindu Yoga.

I was called a bigot for that!

sunyata07
12 September 2010, 07:00 AM
I was called a bigot for that!


It's no news that people just don't like to hear the truth. You'd probably be called something worse if you were to remind such people that Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism derived their teachings from the sages of Hinduism!

At the same time, I believe that anyone can and ought to practice yoga regularly and correctly, be they of Hindu faith, otherwise or even non-believer. As long as the practitioners acknowledge the roots of yogic exercise and philosophy and the credits of the discipline go back to Sanatana Dharma, I would not deny anyone to chance to take yoga up for themselves. Perhaps given enough time to practice yoga, they may even be able to expand their conditioned thinking, cultivate forbearance and open-mindedness and see beyond their rigid cultural parameters.

Surya Deva, I agree with you on this. I have written about it numerous times already on HDF. I honestly believe for the most part, it is simply cultural and linguistic conditioning that has kept people from acknowledging yoga's inseparable ties to Hinduism. Buddhism has the benefit of being the Middle Way, in that, it is impassive, passionless and does not require you to be overtly Buddhist in order for you to claim to be a practitioner of its faith. I think a lot of Westerners find this noncommital attitude attractive. In the case of Christians, they don't necessarily have to give up their God or faith in Jesus, and in the case of atheists, they don't have to acknowledge a personal deity and at the same time are given the chance to explore themselves spiritually. It then naturally (or rather, unnaturally) arose that there should be a hybridisation of yoga and Buddhism - a kind of blending of disciplines. Again, Buddhism is so free-and-easy in its approach to accommodate yogic philosoophy, so in the West this rather eclectic mix hit it off rather well.

Sahasranama
12 September 2010, 07:29 AM
I had a friend in high school who said he was a Buddhist Christian, his mother was a Buddhist from Sril Lanka and father a Christian. It's possible to live your life inspired from different faiths, but philosophically it probably won't make much sense. In new age, people aren't really looking for the philosophy behind their faiths. They pick and choose from everywhere, until the stuff they believe in becomes a real hodge podge of traditions and fantasies which is not a problem for them, because they take all this stuff lightly. In the back of their head they still think it's all a bunch of hocus pocus anyway, so why bother with authenticity. Not all westerners, but the ones to take parts out of Hinduism and mix match it with whatever they can find.


It's no news that people just don't like to hear the truth. You'd probably be called something worse if you were to remind such people that Buddhism, Jainism and Sikhism derived their teachings from the sages of Hinduism!That's absolutely true, but the offsprings of Hinduism use the word yoga also. So the Christians and Jews can argue, why can't we use the word yoga, if they can.

Sahasranama
08 October 2010, 10:41 AM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_re/us_rel_southern_baptists_yoga

Southern Baptist leader on yoga: Not Christianity

TatTvamAsi
09 October 2010, 03:24 PM
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101007/ap_on_re/us_rel_southern_baptists_yoga

Southern Baptist leader on yoga: Not Christianity

Yes, I read that a few days ago. Funny thing is, all these fundamentalist christians are absolutely right when they say Hinduism and yoga are inextricably linked to one another. It is foolish and disingenuous to say they are separate.

One thing I just don't understand about Indians, especially so-called yoga "instructors" is why do they salivate at the chance of having western students/devotees? It clearly shows they still very much trapped as "normal" humans are and have not transcended above the basics.

As I mentioned elsewhere, I wonder why Yogananda and Mahesh Yogi didn't rush over to Africa or South America to teach them yoga. :rolleyes:

The chief disciple of Yogananda, Donald Walters (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swami_Kriyananda), is a typical cultural thief from the western world.

This guy studied, learnt, and lived with Yogananda, much like jesus did with the Brahmins in India, and then was kicked out of the organization for his uncouth behavior, again, like jesus was, and then splintered off to form his own "group" and started writing about jesus and christian "philosophy"; something that was non-existent before Yogananda came to the US and talked about "christ consciousness" or some such garbage.

Any Indian/Hindu tradition, is much like getting into a program at Caltech, MIT, IIT, or Harvard; the guru has to be extremely discerning in choosing their disciples. This is how it was in the good ol' days. Now, it's a popularity contest and many so-called 'gurus' are vying for devotees, especially deep-pocketed ones from the west.

It is quite irksome that Hindus themselves are willing to deny their heritage and roots to promote this new-fangled "secular" version of Yoga, which is completely bogus.

I am completely against that and I agree with that christian pastor that Yoga and Hinduism are inseparable and christians (including jews/muslims and every other non-Hindu/non-Indian) should NOT (or be allowed to) practice it.

Sahasranama
09 October 2010, 03:43 PM
As I mentioned elsewhere, I wonder why Yogananda and Mahesh Yogi didn't rush over to Africa or South America to teach them yoga

You make a good point here.

TatTvamAsi
11 November 2010, 12:28 PM
Here's an excellent article written by Rajiv Malhotra on this very topic on HuffingtonPost: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rajiv-malhotra/hindu-view-of-christian-yoga_b_778501.html

Sahasranama
11 November 2010, 04:46 PM
I am really suprised by rajiv malhotra's comment. He sees Jesus amongst the incarnations of God.

1) I have always considered Jesus as one of the greatest spiritual exemplars, seeing him amongst the incarnations of God (which Hindus refer to as avatar). I AM against any exclusivity claims about him being the "only" this or that.

TatTvamAsi
12 November 2010, 06:11 PM
I am really suprised by rajiv malhotra's comment. He sees Jesus amongst the incarnations of God.

You shouldn't be surprised because Rajiv Malhotra is a public figure; he speaks on behalf of Hindus in the US, much to the chagrin of some Hindus in India like Radha Rajan, Sandhya Jain etc.

Sahasranama
13 November 2010, 02:05 AM
I only see two reasons why he could have said that. He either believes it to be true or he is being politically correct. It really doesn't help his case against the appropiation of Indian culture. He seems to have no problem appropiating elements of Christianity into Hindu Dharma. I think it's kind of insulting to Hinduism to place Jesus amongst the avataras, why not place Super Mario amongst the avatars while we are at it.

TatTvamAsi
16 November 2010, 06:43 PM
I only see two reasons why he could have said that. He either believes it to be true or he is being politically correct. It really doesn't help his case against the appropiation of Indian culture. He seems to have no problem appropiating elements of Christianity into Hindu Dharma. I think it's kind of insulting to Hinduism to place Jesus amongst the avataras, why not place Super Mario amongst the avatars while we are at it.

He is being practical. Of course, I don't know for certain, but no self-respecting Hindu cares two hoots about jesus.

And, how does he appropriate "christianity into Hindu Dharma"? By saying jeebus was important? What christian ideal/principle does he follow/support that he wants Hindus to do as well. Conversely, the idiots who think they are doing AsanA want to strip Yoga from Hinduism to suit their ends. That is what he, as well as most Hindus, are against.

He cannot publicly deride, in this case, ignore, jesus the charlatan. If he did, he would be relegated to the dark corners of the internet.

Rajiv, as other public Hindus, are practical in their inclusiveness. It is something I don't like, yet I am not a "public figure".

Show me one Hindu who has publicly stated who jesus truly was: a worthless charlatan.

Sahasranama
16 November 2010, 06:52 PM
Of course, he has to be diplomatic, he does not have to say that Jesus was a worthless charlatan, but he should not have to be so politically correct to place Jesus among the avatars. Then he also appropiating, namely the Christian figure Jesus into the collection of Hindu avatars. Honestly, I care more about Hinduism staying clean from Christian influences, like the inclusion of Jesus as an avatar, than I care about Christians doing downard dog for Jesus.

hanumansolo
17 November 2010, 12:21 AM
He cannot publicly deride, in this case, ignore, jesus the charlatan.


Or maybe, he really does admire Jesus. Jesus, after all, is a beautiful person representing love. Mahatma Gandhi admired him, as do I and many Hindus. So I'd ask people not to say bad things like 'charlatan' or whatever. If you don't accept A, fine. You don't even have to like A. But you don't have to abuse him, right? Let's try to be more mature.

Sahasranama
18 November 2010, 02:49 AM
He is either being politically correct or he is being inconsistent in his mission and philosophy. It's fine that he admires Jesus, but the moment he places him among the Hindu avatars his entire mission against the appropiation of Indian culture is negated with his appropiation of the Christian figure into the Hindu collection of avatars. Some consistency, please! I cannot support him if he is being inconsistent in his philosophy. I have already contacted Rajiv Malhotra once about the problem with his U-turn theory. It should be more like an O-cycle theory. Ideas go from India to the west, they get recycled and they come back to India/Hinduism. He said he was aware of the problem and was writing a book on the subject. I am not trying to say that we should not learn anything from the west, sure there are a lot of philospical and psychological theories from the west that are worth the study. But our core ideas in Hinduism, like who the avatars are, should not be altered because of Christian theology.

We cannot place Jesus among the avatars or call him a yogi and at the same time complain that the Jesuits are stealing yoga. That's even more absurd than Chrisian yoga itself. I would even say that this inclusive mentality of people like Ramakrishna Paramahamsa, Yogananda Paramahamsa, Swami Sivananda and Swami Satchidananda has led to the development of Christian Yoga.

UniversalLove
28 March 2011, 01:23 PM
Deleted

joemy
22 May 2011, 10:04 PM
Christian Yoga?I am sorry i don't know what does it mean.I memory tell me that singapore yoga (http://evolve-mma.com/index.php/classes/yoga-for-mma.html) doesn't has this word.

Mana
24 May 2011, 02:46 PM
It could be very enlightening experience even if only from a historical stand point for Christians to learn that their faith is very similar to that of Bhakti yoga. That there are many ways to approach God.

Knowledge of the ashvattha tree like form which is visible though Jnana Yoga, could be compared to or even viewed as being the voice of a burning bush. Well, that is if you have a creative open mind.

How about, Hare Christ Yoga?

Respectfully

Iain