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yajvan
15 October 2006, 09:04 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~
Namaste,
Here's a few ideas for the forum to consider and discuss on meditation times (or Sandhya upasana).

It is very traditional to meditate AM and PM - where does this come from?
This is based upon 'gaps' in the day called Sandhya. This 'Sandhya' is considered a junction point in time, and upasana, in one form is meditation.
So, today many meditate AM and PM... there are junction points at these times . What's the junction? Twilight or the changing of the sun's (surya) position in the sky that can translate to ones meditation experiences. The sun plays a key role in timing everything on earth AND is the atman or soul indicator (Atmakaraka) for all on this planet. Since meditation deals with realizing the SELF ( Atman) , the sun has its influence here.

There are additonal junction points [sandhya]: Sunrise, noon, sunset and midnight are considered the key sandhya times during the day.
Also note there are these junction points during the 12 months as the sun, surya transits one sign to another [sankrati]; Like that, there are multiple other times, but for now lets look at the following:


Morning is Brahma Muhurta Sandhya
Noon for Vishnu Sandhya
Sunset called Mahesha Sandhya
Midnight called Kali or Turiya SandhyaAs we meditate close to these junctions, it is thought that Turiya consciousness (4th state) is closer or easier to reach, hence the value of these times. For those on a special program e.g. gayatri, usually all 4 times are used...
So, A.M. is Brahma Sandhya - a excellent time - around the time before sunrise. I have without fail enjoyed the best experiences at this time, as it is said, all nature wakes up at this time. You can (I can) feel the whoosh of life's energy begin at this time.
And PM, is Mahesha Sandhya ~ around sunset/twilight, just as the sun goes down below the horizon i.e. twilight.

Length of Meditation ( this is not instruction, just the notion of times considered)
Lets start with Muhurta. This is a specific period of time e.g. 1/30th of the day is (1) muhurta or 48 minutes. The math here is interesting as it goes all the way back to the smallest period of time ( truti) and all the way up to 100 years of Brahma ( a few zillion years or so) - but I digress.

Meditation times can be based upon muhurta. For some in the TM program they initially meditate ~ 20 min + a few min entering and exiting meditation, its 1/2 of a muhurta ... ~ 24 min, Done 2X per day , you get your 1 Muhurta. There's the audit trail.

For others meditating longer meditation times can be used [as with my own practice] and consider whole or parts of muhurta for timing meditation.

Other bigger gaps we can consider called sankranti as mentioned, happens often; A major transit this month is Guru ( Jupiter, some call Brihaspati) transits into Scorpio , a very spiritual 8th house, around Oct 21-24th.
Other times come with Chandra ( moon) and the movement from rasi to rasi, plus tithi period , + waxing and wanning.
More on this if there is interest.

pranams

sarabhanga
16 October 2006, 06:30 PM
Hari Om

Namaste Yajvan,

The concept of saMdhyA is the very heart of yoga, and of the veda!

Please continue.

:)

Znanna
16 October 2006, 07:41 PM
Hari Om

Namaste Yajvan,

The concept of saMdhyA is the very heart of yoga, and of the veda!

Please continue.

:)


I am curious as to how you interpret this, sarabhanga, as well.

Please continue :)


Namaste,
ZN

yajvan
16 October 2006, 09:27 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~~


Namaste,
Here's a few ideas for the forum to consider and discuss on
meditation times (or Sandhya upasana).
Other bigger gaps we can consider called sankranti as mentioned, happens often; A major transit this month is Guru ( Jupiter, some call Brihaspati) transits into Scorpio , a very spiritual 8th house, around Oct 21-24th. Other times come with Chandra ( moon) and the movement from rasi to rasi, plus tithi period , + waxing and wanning.

Namaste,
In my last post above I did not give the correct transit ( Sankrati) of Guru in Scoripo. This will happen Oct 27th, 10 AM CDT, 6 hrs WEST of GMT. I use this so all can calculate this time. This will be a very favorable Sandhya, or gap, for one to consider.

From A Jyotish Perspective:
The grahas can assist, as they infuence ones total being , physical, spiritual and mental - this is called the tripod of one's life. This triputi is found throughout ones chart ( past, present , and future happenings), yet there is a 4th , as we have discussed , the amatra, or the unmeasured, and is found in the gaps, the beginning times of the graha's not fully in one sign but just entering. How is this 4th found in one chart and how does it apply to Guru's transit into Scoripo?

The natural 8th house (rasi) is a Moksha house, so is the 4th house and 12th houses. As you know there is Dharma, Artha, Kama, & Moksha houses in ones janma kundali or natal birth chart, and they run in that order and repeat. This outlines all that one can experience, achieve and influence in ones life.
Therefore the 1st, 5th, 9th are Dharma houses, 2nd, 6th, 10th are Artha, 3rd, 7th, 11th are Kama houses, and 4th, 8th, 12th are Moksa houses. Now, who owns this Scorpio house? Mangala and Ketu...Ketu is the natural karaka of Moksha (some graha's are co-owners to a sign/rasi like scorpio, or mangala and ketu).

Guru entering into a moksa house: what more does the Guru want for his sisya other then moksha? This gap time then is very useful for the Sadhu. Remember that the gaps allow the opportunity for turiya to be experienced ,the underlining structure to all of consciousness. The grahas can assist, as they infuence ones total being , physical, spiritual and mental.
I mentioned mangala as co-owner of Scorpio, and when mangala is associated with Guru (as in guru-mangala yoga) gives one the tenacity/strengh/one-pointedness to reach the goal and gives great respect to the guru. This passing of Guru in Scorpio will energize this yoga, most likely when both graha’s are in rasi or graha dristi ( that is, they see each other from another sign, this stimulates this yoga).

A few more graha's will also enter Scorpio:
On Oct 24th at 1 AM Chandra (moon) enters Scorpio: Chandra influences the mind, feelings and emotions. In Scorpio, it is debilitated, yet is still in the gap , in the bright half of the month, in Sukla Dwitiya tithi. This gap is good, yet more notable gaps that can be felt are the full and new moons. Look to these for gaps you can feel.
Now, why did I even mention Buddha - he too will be in the gap Oct 24th 6:30 AM 6 hr. west of GMT. Mercury influences the intellect. The intellect with Guru plays a role. And depending on ones chart, the influence of Mercury can assist ones spiritual progress.How so ? viveka or discrimination... If mercury owning a Moksha house in one's chart and being the Atmakara is associated with Ketu , will move one along ( I should say compell one) along the path.

According to Jaimini a most respected Jyotisha, he points to the location of the atmakaraka and Ketu to indicate ones spiritual endeavors and progress. This is seen from the 1/9th chart (the Navamsa) called an amsa division or just D9. Most Conventional jyotisha’s see the 1/9th division for relationships, perhaps so, yet there is a wealth of spiritual information given by Jaimini as he points to the Karakamsa in the 1/9th house. That is , the location of the Atmakarka which indicates ones Ishtadevata.
Divisional charts (also called higher harmonic charts) taught by Parashara muni go up to D60 and are used for viewing past incarnations. Some Jyotisha’s use up to D120 divisional charts.
So, with a Jyotisha schooled in Parashara muni and Jaimini muni knowledge and from a good parampara , one can assist the sadhu on times of spiritual upliftment, meeting the guru, etc.

There are Dasa systems that will assist with this too. A few called Drig dasa system, the Narayan dasa, Vimshottari Dasa ( most popular in these times) also help...yet there a many many systems, with very few Jyotisha's skilled in this knowledge. As there are special dasa systems based upon the position of the graha’s such as Astottari dasa. Parashara is quite clear on when to apply this dasa sytem e.g. a day birth, with rahu giving dristi to the lord of the Lagna.

Closing this post, the Sandhya and Sankrati periods are most notable. It is customary to 'greet' the graha when entering a new sign by navgraha shanti. I ask you to be 'aware' on the dates above and take note of the gap times + the muhurta times given in the 1st post and see if you notice anything... My humble recommendation is this: Expect nothing, just do your regular meditation or japa, or sadhna, with this mindfulness. We can then discuss if you wish. I will add a bit more to this as requested without going too too deep.

Pranams,

sarabhanga
19 October 2006, 07:19 AM
Please continue :)

saMdhya (saM-dhya) indicates “being on the point of junction” or “based on saMdhi”; and also “thinking out, reflecting or meditating”.

saMdhi is “containing a conjunction or a transition from one to another”, indicating “junction, connection, combination, union, association, intercourse, comprehension, totality, the whole essence or scope; an agreement, compact, alliance, or league; reconciliation, peace or making a treaty of peace, or negotiating alliances; euphonic conjunction, contrivance, or management; a place or point of connection or contact, hinge, boundary, border, line, or juncture (especially a critical juncture, crisis, opportune moment); a joint or articulation, an interstice, crevice, or interval; especially the space between heaven and earth (the horizon) or the interval between day and night (the twilight); a seam or fold, a wall (or the hole or cavity or breach in a wall made by a thief); the vagina or vulva; a division of a drama, a period at the end of each Yuga intervening before the commencement of the next, a pause or rest, a part, portion, or piece of anything; the connecting link of a perpendicular or the common side of a double triangle; and the deity presiding over all union and conjunction”.

And saMdhya is based on all of the preceeding (and the following) !

saMdhyA (from saM-dhyA or saM-dhyai) is “holding together, union, junction, or juncture ~ especially of day and night (i.e. the morning or evening twilight), or of the three divisions of the day (i.e. morning, noon, and evening); and thus “the religious acts performed at such times, including Acamana and repetition of mantra (especially of the Gayatri) and meditation”.

saMdhyA is “twilight” (variously personified as a manifestation or daughter of Brahma, as the consort of Shiva, of the Sun, of Kala, etc.), the deity presiding over temporal divisions. saMdhyA is the primeval twilight between Yugas, or (generally) “any boundary or limit”; and saMdhyA is “a promise, agreement or assent” and particularly “thinking about” (in meditation or reflection).

sAMdhya (from saM-dhya) is “produced by coalescence”; and sAMdhya (from saM-dhyA) is “relating to the twilight”.

sam means “with, together with, along with, together, or altogether”, and it is used as a prefix to indicate “conjunction, union, thoroughness, intensity, or completeness”.

dhyai means “to think, imagine, contemplate, meditate, call to mind , recollect, or brood”, “to be thoughtful or meditative”, or “to hang or bow the head”.

And dhyA is “thinking, imagination, contemplation, meditation, recollection, brooding, or bowing”.

So that saMdhyA is “with (intense) thought, imagination, contemplation, or meditation”, “recollecting together” and “along with bowing”; and saMdhyA is “recollection or remembrance of conjunction or union”, and “thoroughly calling to mind”.

dhi means “to hold”, with dhiye indicating “I am holding”; and the optative dhiya wishes “I shall behold”.

dhi means “to nourish, satiate, satisfy, delight, or please”; and dhi is “a receptacle”.

dhe means “to suck, drink, take to one’s self, absorb, or appropriate”; the imperative dhaya commands one to “suck!”, “drink!”, “take in”, “absorb!”, or inspire!”; and saMdhaya intensifies the commandment.

saMdhi and saMdha indicate “placing or holding together”, especially “together with Brahma (or Kubera)”, and “having merit and bestowing virtue” or “granting wealth and causing prosperity”.

And saMdhiya proclaims the intention “I will truly grasp or fully comprise”, “I shall comprehend, compose, or behold all”, etc.

saMdha is “the all-placer, all-giver, all-supporter, or all-sustainer”; and saMdhi is the “all receptive vessel” or “receptacle of the whole”.

And saMdha is the brahmayoga ~ “the binding power or employment of devotion” or “the cultivation of spiritual knowledge”.

dha (or dhA) means “placing, putting, holding, possessing, having, bestowing, granting, causing, etc.”; dha is the “placer, bestower, holder, supporter, etc.”; and dha indicates both “virtue and merit” (as Brahma or Brihaspati) and “wealth and property” (as Kubera).

dhA means “to put, place, set, or lay (in or on)”, “to inflict”, “to imitate or equal”, “to bring, help or take or restore”.

And saMdhA is “an intimate union, compact, or agreement; a promise or vow; intention or design; mixture or preparation (especially of a beverage); a boundary or limit; or a fixed state or condition”.

The suffix dhA also forms numerical adverbs ~ e.g. ekadhA (“simply, singly, in one way, together, at once”), dvidhA (“in 2 ways or parts”), and thus also saMdhA (“wholly, completely, in all ways, in every part, always”).

yajvan
19 October 2006, 09:14 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


saMdhya (saM-dhya) indicates “being on the point of junction” or “based on saMdhi”; and also “thinking out, reflecting or meditating”.
Namaste sarabhagha,

Thank you for this information.... What a most rewarding post to discuss. That is, Sandhyavandana .
We find these junction points within ourselves and within the cosmos, as the universe is here to help. Hence our conversations of the junction points on when the Graha's find their way into another rasi (sign) or sankrati, and is in the gap discussed , or sandhya. We talked too of the 4 times per day where the gaps naturally exist ( AM, PM, Noon, and Mid-night) ,natural times for sadhana , and for the turiya to be more available. This is an insufficient way of saying this, turiya is always here, so maybe the other sadhu's can add a better way of saying this.

Where else can we learn of this sandhaya? We can look to the Taittitiya Upanishad and sikshavalli. It gives several beautiful examples of purvarupam or first form and uttararupam, last form and the sandhi, union between them and the sandhanam , or the medium affecting that union.
My favorite is the earth as first form, heaven as the second, then antariksha or akasha as the union. Akasha, and it bija is Hrim..then connection between the two.

Now we also know the ved or samhita's to be a collection of mantras, and the word samhita, the conjunction point of words or letters. So, even in mantras these sandhi or sandhya, junctions exist. And what is underlying these sandhya? Turiya , or Brahman , that forms this infinite connection of all things.

This is at the basis of the Madhu Brahmana (some call the honey doctrine) - that all is connected to everything else. When you touch one thing, you essentially are touching all-things. This is the wisdom of the rshi's who see this infinite correlation of the universe... this wholeness (Bhuma) or Brahman.

Pranams,

sarabhanga
20 October 2006, 08:38 PM
The present participles dhaye and dhIye indicate “I am placing, putting, setting, laying, holding, possessing, equaling, imitating, having, inflicting, bestowing, restoring, bringing, granting, causing, helping, or taking”.

saMdhIye declares “I am placing, setting, or lying together”, “I am holding or having conjunction or communion”, “I am giving or causing completion or perfection or union”, or “I am setting truly”.

The verbal root dhI means “to perceive, think, reflect, wish, or desire”.

And the feminine noun dhI is “thought (especially religious thought), reflection, meditation, devotion, prayer, understanding, intelligence, wisdom (personified as the wife of Rudra), knowledge, science, art, mind, disposition, intention, design, notion, or opinion”.

The plural dhiyaH is “splendour or glory”, or “Holy Thoughts” personified, and saMdhiyaH indicates communion with Her in concentrated reflexion.

And saMdhiyA (or saMdhiyaH) is “together with or according to thy wisdom or will” or “very wisely or willingly”.

“Thy will be done, as it is in (between) both the earth and the heavens.” ;)

dhIH! :)

http://www.geocities.com/sarabhanga/Surya.jpg

atanu
21 October 2006, 05:27 AM
Sandhi Muhurta

Some might have noticed that when the mind goes to grasp a high flying bird, for a fraction of a second till the mind says "I see it", there is delight. A lightness indescribable.

Some might have also noticed that in the minute interval between two thoughts there is a moment of bliss. A lightness indescribable.

When a desire is fulfilled and the mind is devoid of desire, for a minute period, there is bliss. A lightness indescribable.


Some might have noticed that when one wakes up at brahmamuhurta, before the mind starts with the I idea, there is a moment's bliss. A lightness indescribable.


These are Sandhi moments when the Brahman is exposed. At these times the true nature of the self as bodyless, egoless, infinite being is exposed to noosed consciousness. This is the state in dreamless sleep also but we do not know.


Om Namah Shivayya

Znanna
21 October 2006, 07:56 AM
Thank you again, sarabhanga, for your very informative linguistic explanations. For one such as me, just beginning to study sanskrit, your expression of these roots are so very helpful.

Namaste,
ZN

atanu
21 October 2006, 11:22 AM
Good Lord. What excellent photos; God must be peering out from them, looking askance as to who all might be watching Him.


Thanks to both of you, ZNN and Avadhuta.

yajvan
21 October 2006, 05:43 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Sandhi Muhurta

Some might have noticed that when the mind goes to grasp a high flying bird, for a fraction of a second till the mind says "I see it", there is delight. A lightness indescribable.

Some might have also noticed that in the minute interval between two thoughts there is a moment of bliss. A lightness indescribable.

When a desire is fulfilled and the mind is devoid of desire, for a minute period, there is bliss. A lightness indescribable.


Namaste Atanu Banerjee,
What you have offered is very profound... you have captured the the 'pressing of the soma' - the experience of delight the rishi's sing in the ved. Very nice!
Each action allows this delight to be released... some notice some not. Yet this is the bliss ( I call delight) the 'realized ones' talk of in their daity lifes. There is no ego/individualiity that gets in the way, and this delight is experienced regularly. They also say they are not the authors of this ( I do nothing) and the delight/soma is an offering to the deva's/ Indra - Divine Mind.

thank you for your examples... wonderful!

atanu
22 October 2006, 12:01 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste Atanu Banerjee,
What you have offered is very profound... you have captured the the 'pressing of the soma' - the experience of delight the rishi's sing in the ved. Very nice!
Each action allows this delight to be released... some notice some not. Yet this is the bliss ( I call delight) the 'realized ones' talk of in their daity lifes. There is no ego/individualiity that gets in the way, and this delight is experienced regularly. They also say they are not the authors of this ( I do nothing) and the delight/soma is an offering to the deva's/ Indra - Divine Mind.

thank you for your examples... wonderful!


Thanks for the appreciation.

Pray those fleeting partitioned delight show its timeless indivisible true nature. Let soma swell.


Om

yajvan
18 November 2007, 04:29 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

It is very traditional to meditate AM and PM - where does this come from? This is based upon 'gaps' in the day called Sandhya. This 'Sandhya' is considered a junction point in time, and upasana, in one form is meditation.


Meditation times were discussed above, that is Sandhya upasana. We know these times to be throughout the day, yet what times are they specifically?

Morning is Brahma Muhurta Sandhya
Noon for Vishnu Sandhya
Sunset called Mahesha Sandhya
Midnight called Kali or Turiya SandhyaLets take a look at 3 methods one can consider to calculate these times.

FYI Info
First, a muhurta is equal to 48 minutes - or 2 ghatika¹ each of 24 min.
Sandhya is a 'gap' period, a junction point.
We will also add a new Sandhya that is called Abhijit Muhurta . It is based upon the 28th Nakshatra called Abhijit, and is recognized daily, at mid day and at mid-night. This muhurta is considered quite favorable.
You will see this in the 3rd option shown below.

Brahma Muhurta is considered the time from ~ 4 AM to Sunrise. Brahma Muhurta officially starts at the 25th nadiya and runs to sunrise… as of today, the nadiya division system of the day is something I am still researching… so for now we will just stick with 4 AM (±). If any one of our esteemed HDF members has knowledge on this matter I am eager to hear your assessment on nadiya divisions of the day.

Option 1: The quick method - No thinking required
Morning , Noon or Mid-day, Evening and Midnight Sandhya approximations can be as easy as 4 AM to 6 AM, 12 noon, 6 PM and 12 mid-night. This is fast, and an approximation to figure out the best starting times for sadhana.

Option 2: Adding in Muhurta & Ghati to Consider Sandhya - Directionally correct
We take the same times as above and split the time of 1 ghati¹ on each side, that is:
4 AM to 6:00 AM { we keep the Brahma Muhurta time the same } , 11:36 AM to 12:24 PM, 5:36 PM to 6:24 PM , 11:36 PM to 12:24 AM.

Option 3: Looking at the existing sun rise, mid day, evening and Mid night times + Abhijit Muhurta : Exact Calculation
These times are based upon actuals and will change daily ~ 1min or so as the sun begins increasing in daylight i.e. starting from the winter solstice (~ 20th of December); or decreasing in daylight starting at the summer solstice (~ June 20th). Note to self - these two dates are perfect sandhya/gaps to consider for sadhana.

Lets use Varanisi, India, Sunday the 18th of November 2007 for our example.
Sunrise: 6:20 AM
Sunset: 17:05 [ 5:05 PM]

Brahma Muhurta runs from ~4 AM to 6:20 AM
Mid day is a calculation: Sunset - Sunrise = total daylight hours (TDH).
TDH/ 2 = X factor
To get to the mid day we add X factor to the sunrise time to get mid-day time.
To Get Abhijit Muhurta we take mid-day time and split it in two: subtract one ghati on one side and add one ghati to the other. Lets try it:
Sunset - Sunrise = total daylight hours (TDH) = 17:05 - 6:20 = 10:45 TDH. 10:45 / 2 = 5:22:30 hours this is our X factor. Sunrise or 6:20 AM + 5:22:30 ( our X factor) = 11:42:30 ( roughly noon)

Now to get Abhijit Muhurta we subtract 24 min from 11:42:30 and get 11:18:30 (AM) and we add 24 min to 11:42:30 and get 12:06:30 [12:06:30 PM]. This is the sandhya time for this day: 11:18:30 AM to 12:06:30 PM.

Evening is 17:05 [5:05 PM]. We want the twilight time, where the sun has not set as yet. So we subtract take one muhurta (48 min) from this sunset time and we get 16:17 [or 4:17PM] a start time for for sandhya.
We do not split the time here on each side of sunset - if we did the sun would have gone down already and night has fallen, the gap or sandhya has passed.

Midnight requires a calculation. That is sunset we know as 17:05 [5:05 PM]. Yet the night or darkness lasts until sunrise of the next day, the 19th of November which is at 6:21AM. To calculate the total darkness time we find out how much 'darkness' there is from sun set to sunrise, which = 13:16 hrs of darkness.

The calculation is not subtraction as this is only used for the SAME day calculations. We are going forward in time. So the elapsed hours from 17:05 or 5:05 PM going to 5:05 AM the next day, 12 hours. Then we go to sunrise of 6:21AM and that is now a 'same day calculation' so 6:21 - 5:05 = 1:16. We have the 12 hrs elapsed time + 1:16 hrs = 13:16 hrs. of darkness. Take 1/2 of the 13:16 hrs or 6:38 hrs, add this to sun set or 17:05 and we get 17:05 + 6:38 = 23.43 [11:43PM].

Next we split this time of 24 mins on each side to get Abhijit Muhurta. Or 11:19 PM and 12:07 AM on the 19th, the next day. Sandya then runs from 11:19 PM to 12:07 AM.

Note that Option 1 and Option 2 is for any time of the year… just a rule of thumb. Option 3 requires some calculations. Yet the times changes for additional days are small and the initial calculations can be used for a few weeks and still be within the Sandya period.

Let take a look and see if this makes sense:
1. Sunday the 18th of November 2007.
Sunrise: 6:20 AM Sunset: 17:05 PM [ 5:05 PM]
2. Lets go out one week to 27th of November, 2007
Sunrise: 6:27 AM Sunset: 17:03 PM [ 5:03 PM]
3. One more week
Sunrise: 6:33 AM Sunset: 17:03 PM [ 5:03 PM]

Note the day is getting shorter as we approach the winter solstice. Using your original calculations of 18th of November gives you sandhya times for ~ 3 weeks. This infers you do not have to get crazy over the calculations, and maybe do it once a month. Once you see the trends , you then know to just a few minutes along the way.

Just a thought and putting some numbers and times behind this sandhya.


1. One ghati = 24 min. One ghati = 1/60th of the day. 1/60th = .016667 X 24 hours = 0.40 hrs = .40 X 60 minutes = 24 minutes= in ghati.


pranams,

Eastern Mind
18 November 2007, 05:18 PM
Interesting.. The scriptures were written for and at times along the equator. At one time I was supposed to be disciplining myself to meditate at dawn, but here on the 54th latitude north, dawn changes seasonally by about an 6 hour swing, ranging from very early like 3:30 AM to 9:30 AM. I once asked a swami about people who lived even further north like above the Arctic circle, where daylight will be on for 3 months, and night will last 3 months. His response was "no Hindu in their right mind would live up there." In other words, take it all with a bit of a grain of salt. Aum Namasivaya

yajvan
18 November 2007, 06:58 PM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Interesting.. The scriptures were written for and at times along the equator. At one time I was supposed to be disciplining myself to meditate at dawn, but here on the 54th latitude north, dawn changes seasonally by about an 6 hour swing, ranging from very early like 3:30 AM to 9:30 AM. I once asked a swami about people who lived even further north like above the Arctic circle, where daylight will be on for 3 months, and night will last 3 months. His response was "no Hindu in their right mind would live up there." In other words, take it all with a bit of a grain of salt. Aum Namasivaya


Namste EM,
a most excellent point...that is why option 3 ( from the post) will work perfectly at the 54th lat.

re: living at the north pole makes one a macroscian (muh-KROSH-i-uhn) a noun [From Greek macros (long) + skia (shadow)];


One casting a long shadow.
One who inhabits polar regions.just longer meditation times and longer gaps ( in the winter that is!)....

pranams,

sarabhanga
25 November 2007, 01:42 AM
Namaste,

The day is determined by its sunrise, and brAhmamuhUrta is “the dawn”, but particularly the period from 1 hr 36 min before sunrise until 48 min before sunrise. And assuming sunrise at 6 AM, the brAhmamuhUrta begins at 4:24 AM. :)

yajvan
25 November 2007, 09:39 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~


Namaste,

The day is determined by its sunrise, and brAhmamuhUrta is “the dawn”, but particularly the period from 1 hr 36 min before sunrise until 48 min before sunrise. And assuming sunrise at 6 AM, the brAhmamuhUrta begins at 4:24 AM. :)



Namaste sarabhanga,
what you say is true... I have the audit trail on the 48 min. 1 muhurta = 48 min ( also = 2 ghatiki). I do not have the audit trail on 1 h 36min. Do you have this? what is the unit measure on this?

My only audit trail I have for Brahma muhurta is the following:
1 hr 36 min = 96 min
96 min / 1 ghati or 24 min = 4 ghati. If this is true, then any Brahma muhurta starting time is sunrise -minus 4 ghati. What I am not sure of is the definition of Brahma muhurta given as the '25th nadiya and runs to sunrise' - I have been trying to check if the 4 ghatika before sunrise = the 25th nadiya. I have yet to find the metric behind nadiya. [This is based upon 21,600 breaths in a day and not sure how they, the nadi Jyotishi's get to nadiya units] - Any help is welcomed.

Last - it's very interesting ( to me) that the unit of time is based upon 1/60th of the day :
1/60th =.0166666
.0166666 X 24 hrs/day = .40 hrs
.40 hrs x 60 min/hr = 1 ghati = 24 min.
2 ghati = 1 muhurta of 48 min.
1 hora ( 1 hr) = 2.5 ghati
1 day and 1 night = ahoratra = 30 muhurta ( 30 x 40 min = 24 hrs)

Why did the ancients pick 1/60th ? If I was there I would have voted for 1/10th as it makes the math easierhttp://www.hindudharmaforums.com/images/icons/icon7.gif ! As we look into this, it is based upon samvastsara, or one cycle of 60 years. What is this 60 years all about? It is when the 2 biggest grahas , Guru and Sani meet in Mesha (Aries) the first house of Bha Chakra.

Just a this is the common denominator for yugas , it is the denominator for calculating times of the day... so the risi's used the scale of 60 for going up ( in yugas) and down in times & fractions of the day.

The last time Guru and Sani came together for this 60 years cycle was May 1999 [ some suggest March] and will retun in 2059.


pranams

sarabhanga
26 November 2007, 06:28 AM
Namaste Yajvan,



I do not have the audit trail on 1 h 36min. Do you have this? what is the unit measure on this?

No audit is required ~ the brAhmamuhUrta (the penultimate muhUrta of dawn) begins four ghaTIkA (two muhUrta or 96 minutes) before sunrise.

The turya muhUrta (after midnight) strikes after 3:12 AM, and this “fifth hour” (until after 4 AM, when the pre-dawn brAhmamuhUrta begins) is particularly auspicious for meditation.

nADikA is just another name for ghaTikA (i.e. 1/60th of an ahorAtra) ~ and “from the 25th nADikA” is likely to be from the 25th ghaTikA after sunset. And, given a 6 PM sunset, that would be after 4 AM.

You can count 25 bells after sunset, or predict 4 bells before sunrise, and the result is much the same! Or simply set your alarm for somewhere between 4:00 and 4:30 AM !!

Since 60 is divisible by 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6, a sexagesimal (base 60) numbering system facilitates the manipulation of a large range of fractions. Such a system was used in ancient Sumer from around 3,200 BC; and it has proved to be the most convenient method for reckoning circles and cyclic phenomena.

The orbital period of Jupiter is close to 12 years (11.6 years), and that of Saturn is almost 30 years (29.46 years), so that the interval between their conjunctions, in the same area of the zodiac, is about 60 years.

yajvan
27 November 2007, 10:35 AM
Hari Om
~~~~~

Namaste Yajvan,

No audit is required ~ the brAhmamuhUrta (the penultimate muhUrta of dawn) begins four ghaTIkA (two muhUrta or 96 minutes) before sunrise.

.


Namaste sarabhanga,

Let me ask another way... my term of 'audit trail' did not hit the mark.
I agree that brahma-muhurta is 4 gatika before rise. My question was posed to consider, why not 3 or 2? ( I would have picked 1 muhurta).

I also can 'feel' the whoosh that occurs about this time... not right at the start of brahma muhurta but once it is settled in, closer to 1 or 2 gatika that has passed. I can hear nature getting started, the birds start their daily chirping, etc. all that, and there is a noticeable change in me, one feels different. Perhaps this is how it has been determined - by observation & experience. The observer then says - this time usually happens 4 gatika before sunrise.


pranams

sarabhanga
27 November 2007, 08:27 PM
Namaste Yajvan,




I do not have the audit trail on 1 h 36min. Do you have this? what is the unit measure on this?




The brAhmamuhUrta (the penultimate muhUrta of dawn) begins four ghaTIkA (two muhUrta or 96 minutes) before sunrise.




I have been trying to check if the 4 ghatika before sunrise = the 25th nadiya. I have yet to find the metric behind nadiya. [This is based upon 21,600 breaths in a day and not sure how they, the nadi Jyotishi's get to nadiya units] - Any help is welcomed.



nADikA is just another name for ghaTikA (i.e. 1/60th of an ahorAtra) ~ and “from the 25th nADikA” is likely to be from the 25th ghaTikA after sunset.

I am not familiar with the term nadiya, but “after the 25th nADikA (= ghaTikA) from sunset” is equivalent to the traditional “from the 4th ghaTikA before sunrise ~ providing a standard metric for “nadiya” (as nADikA, which is half a muhUrta).




I agree that brahma-muhurta is 4 gatika before rise. My question was posed to consider, why not 3 or 2? ( I would have picked 1 muhurta).

The dawn has always consisted of four ghaTikA (= two muhUrta), and the “crack of dawn”, the brAhmamuhUrta, is its first moment. This first (pre-dawn) muhUrta is for waking and preparation; while the second dawn muhUrta, the ultimate ghANTika muhUrta, is for worship and praise (culminating in the actual sunrise).

Why does the brAhmamuhUrta begin two muhUrta before sunrise and not one and a half muhUrta before sunrise? The answer should be obvious!

One muhUrtau is 96 minutes, and one muhUrta is a ghaTike, and one ghaTikA is a quarter of one muhUrtau. ;)

Perhaps one could divide the dawn muhUrtau with its own sunrise, distinguishing the pre-dawn muhUrta (the 48 minutes before sunrise) and the post-dawn muhUrta (the 48 minutes after sunrise) ~ and perhaps that would be helpful for astrology, but the traditional practice in daily routine has always been as described.

The penultimate (pre-dawn dark) muhUrta is for waking and quiet preparation; while the ultimate (dawn light) muhUrta is for worship and active praise, culminating in the actual sunrise.




The day is determined by its sunrise, and brAhmamuhUrta is “the dawn”, but particularly the period from 1 hr 36 min before sunrise until 48 min before sunrise.