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kallol
02 September 2010, 06:54 AM
In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
He rejects Isaac Newton's theory that the universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God. He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

Going by the reactions in the comments, it seems there is widespread confusion.

What is the reaction of this forum ?

PARAM
02 September 2010, 07:17 AM

जय श्री कृष्ण

I haven't read about Hawking's book, so I don't know what did he mean. Hawking has his own to write, sometimes those scientists are right and sometimes they are wrong. If Hawking is rejecting Newton's theory it is same as someone among them is wrong, but Hawking haven't rejected Arybhatta's theory;)

I will not use the word 'god', Hindus should use ॐ to describe

Brahma is creator, Vishnu is protector, Shiv is destroyer

kallol
02 September 2010, 07:24 AM
How does advaita followers react to this ?

PARAM
02 September 2010, 07:29 AM


only Advait ? There are also Dvait, Vishitdvait, Shuddhadvait, Dvaitadvait etc in Hinduism

kallol
02 September 2010, 07:42 AM


only Advait ? There are also Dvait, Vishitdvait, Shuddhadvait, Dvaitadvait etc in Hinduism

Stand corrected

saidevo
02 September 2010, 08:08 AM
I haven't been much inclined to read general Science, so I haven't read Hawking. Yet some thoughts spring up in a common mind, on reading Hawking's statement: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing."

• How does science explain 'nothing'? If it is 'nothing', how can physical laws, such as gravity, which act on matter exist therein? Even if the 'nothing' is 'something' where physical laws can exist, how did gravity create the particles of matter that evolved into the material universe?

• If 'nothing' contained only all energy and no matter, in what was this 'nothing' contained? How and by what did the modulations in the energy current were made to apparently crystallize into particles of matter?

• By what process do such ideas of physical science originate in the human mind? What forces, laws and matter are involved in their creation in mind? What makes the mind 'aware' that it is thinking and making conclusions about what it thinks? What or who exercises the control of thoughts and how?

Physical science, IMO, can never to evolve a holistic view of the universe, within its own confines.

Kumar_Das
02 September 2010, 08:51 AM
In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
He rejects Isaac Newton's theory that the universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God.

Okay first of all. How does gravity reason the spontaneous creation of the universe from nothing?

Sorry but this doesnt make any sense to me.

All I can imagine is that, when you look at the calculations, how the universe originated, what physical laws lead to the universe now from the earliest stage, then I can observe simply that, period.

From "naught" to "this - material manifestation".

But that doesnt reason how or why "this" has to be from "naught". All we are focusing and knowing about is "this" and not "naught".

Are you going to study about "this-material manifestation" from "naught"? Then why is vice versa logical?


He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

God does not have a "mind". We dont know the intelligence of God more now than before, or more so later simply because of science.

What we would accomplish is unraveling, the mysteries of the universe. So we would only be conquering our own ignorance, not "discovering" anything about God.


Going by the reactions in the comments, it seems there is widespread confusion.

huh? comments? where?

do you mean like from another forum where you had seen this being posted?

sanjaya
02 September 2010, 11:49 AM
In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
He rejects Isaac Newton's theory that the universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God. He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

Going by the reactions in the comments, it seems there is widespread confusion.

What is the reaction of this forum ?

Well, we have to keep in mind that when someone like Hawking talks about "God," such as in his book "A Brief History of Time," he's sort of talking about a philosopher's God. When he says "then we should know the mind of God," he's just talking about our ability to understand the deep mysteries of the universe. I doubt Hawking believed in any conception of God when he wrote that.

Anyway, I think Dr. Hawking's comments on God are more or less directed at a Christian audience. I doubt he knows enough about Hindu theology to speak intelligently on our beliefs. Indeed, we don't necessarily believe in the same sort of ex nihilo creation that Christians do (in fact I don't think Hinduism even speaks definitively on that issue). So I wouldn't take his writings about God as any sort of commentary on our religion.

Riverwolf
02 September 2010, 12:02 PM
"Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing.

Let me start off by saying that I have a great deal of respect for Hawking.

Though I don't think it's quite what he meant, this statement as it is doesn't work, because if there is nothing, there is also no gravity, and therefore no means for something to come from nothing.

I think what he's trying to say is that because of gravity, the universe can operate on its own. That's something I can agree with.

Something cannot come from nothing. Logic dictates that.

atanu
02 September 2010, 12:36 PM
In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. -
What is the reaction of this forum ?

Namaste Kallol

Thank you for bringing this up. Hawking in his own language is saying something, which i think, is not very alien to us (though the abstraction and intricate mathematics etc. will be beyond most of us). I am sure Stephen has enough reasons to conclude as he does. And I have same view as Sanjay has. In fact physicists are closest to Vedic knowledge.

Apparently, religious people, especially the creationists, may take up issues. But It is interesting to note that Hawkings implies that there was the law before any manifestation.

We call it 'Satyam (Truth) and Ritam (law)' that predates any manifestation. The truth and the law are the first division of the Supreme light. Thus we differ from Hawking on the point that the Will of the Supreme predates the Law also.

Mahanarayana U.

prathamo.anuvaakaH
R^ita.n cha satya.n chaabhiiddhaattapaso.adhyajaayata .
tato raatrirajaayata tataH samudro arNavaH .. 63..

I-63: From the all-illuminating Supreme, by His resolve, the Right and the True were generated. From Him night and day were generated. And from Him again was generated the sea with different waters.

trayovi.nsho.anuvaakaH .
R^ita{\m+} satyaM paraM brahma purushha.n kR^ishhNapi~Ngalam.h .
uurdhvareta.n viruupaaksha.n vishvaruupaaya vai namo namaH .. 1..

XXIII-1: Supreme Brahman, in form of the True and the Right, has become Person of dark blue and reddish brown hue (umamahesvara), chaste and possessing uncommon eyes. Salutations to Him alone whose form is the universe.

It is actually incredible to ponder that law pre-exists mass and that law, which is intangible knowledge, can give rise to tangible mass.

Om Namah Shivaya

kallol
03 September 2010, 04:26 AM
I saw this topic in MSN first and was quite thrilled - why ? I saw this heading as validating some theories of Hinduism on the universe creation (?).

The comments towards the post in MSN was like a cat amongst the rats.

But continuing with the topic, it gives us a chance to deliberate on the various theories of the creation of universe as ideated in Sanatana Dharma and discuss this projected idea vis-a-vis those.

Love and best wishes

PARAM
03 September 2010, 06:13 AM



Today even Newspapers told this report about Hawking
The more the Science is progressing the more Hindu Rule is accepted by them, but saddly they are not adding this
It take back to the time of Gupta era or may be before where Scince progressed and Budhism declined with Hinduism rised again

prithvi
28 September 2010, 05:35 AM
from somewhere bacteria came and from there only slowly slowly human generation came to the world...oh my god from where does this legend bacteria came from...hawking may know this .So it means, as by hawking our ancestors was bacteria :o

http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/1741/29612343.jpg
bacteria

http://img198.imageshack.us/img198/7945/fourbacteria.jpg
look our ancestors r so happy mr hawkings ... so touch the feet,,,pai lago bacteria tau lolz

sanjaya
29 September 2010, 12:55 PM
from somewhere bacteria came and from there only slowly slowly human generation came to the world...oh my god from where does this legend bacteria came from...hawking may know this .So it means, as by hawking our ancestors was bacteria :o

Well, according to evolutionary biologists, our ancestors are bacteria.

Of course I would like to point out that if you go back even further, our ancestors are really the remnants of supernova explosions from earlier generations of stars, since only supernovae can create the heavy elements needed for our existence. :)

yajvan
06 October 2010, 02:04 PM
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté



In sanātana dharma we start with the origin of all things ( the Supreme) and then work our way out to the multiplicity of creation ( all the permutations of the tattva's or essential elements).

In science they start with the effect and try to deduce the cause.
This , as it seems to me, is like tracing one vein of a leaf back to other veins, then to the main vein then to a sub branch , then to the main branch . So many directions this leaf's origin can begin at , no?

Going from effect to cause is interesting , I like going from main cause to all the effects. For the tree I know all the branches, leaves, bark, blossoms, fruit, etc. are all the expression of the sap. That sap taking different forms.




praṇām

mohanty
13 February 2011, 06:46 AM
Oddly enough, this same book by Stephen Hawking has been criticised by mathematician Professor CK Raju as being Christian propaganda.

Here is an article where he makes his point: http://www.dnaindia.com/lifestyle/review_the-christian-propaganda-in-stephen-hawking-s-work_1495047

jasdir
24 February 2011, 05:28 AM
In his latest book titled "The Grand Design", Hawking writes: "Because there is a law such as gravity, the universe can and will create itself from nothing. Spontaneous creation is the reason there is something rather than nothing, why the universe exists, why we exist."
He rejects Isaac Newton's theory that the universe did not spontaneously begin to form but was set in motion by God. He wrote in the 1988 book: "If we discover a complete theory, it would be the ultimate triumph of human reason -- for then we should know the mind of God."

Going by the reactions in the comments, it seems there is widespread confusion.

What is the reaction of this forum ?
:cool1: Than what is new in this, :)
"The Universe" another new name kept for "God" here. ha..h :D


_/\_Jasdir

Rationalist
24 February 2011, 06:32 PM
It is saddening to see you guys, who have no knowledge of Physics or Calculus, scorn science. This is partly why Western anti-Hindu propaganda, which displays us as nothing more than crazy quacks who preach metaphysics and talk of intangible things, is so successful.