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Eric11235
06 September 2010, 03:59 PM
I am currently in a very volatile situation that I'm not sure I can defuse at the moment and it is leading to a breach in lifestyle. I have not told my mother that I am a hindu yet, and have not told her I have chosen the path of the vegetarian. What is worse, she is making beef products for the next week, and I cannot tell her for at least the next week (high holy days in judaism). What should I do? I can feel the effects of going against ahimsa and especially the consumption of beef. I've revealed my path to everyone else, but her. She presents...problems to put it lightly.

Assistance would be much appreciated

Namaste

Ao
07 September 2010, 03:05 AM
Personally, I feel that causing undue friction with your mother at a time that is very important to her would be worse than eating the beef. If I were you, I would compromise my vegetarianism temporarily for the sake of family harmony, and then when a good opportunity presents itself you can share your new-found faith and lifestyle choices with her.

I sympathize with your situation and wish you all the best. Please follow your heart and don't feel that you need to push the issue.

kallol
07 September 2010, 03:36 AM
Hindudism is more about the state of mind than what you eat, wear, etc, though following the culture helps you have some effect on the mind and body.

But if a north pole guy has to follow hindusim by being vegeterian then even God cannot save him.

Many saints actually have non veg foods also. So do not get psychologically attached to what you eat or wear. Those two are for your body which is not permanent. Mind is the more permanent one which moves from body to body and we should focus on the status of that only.

Hope it helps.

Love and best wishes

Onkara
07 September 2010, 03:53 AM
Wonderful answers by Kallol and Ao
To which all I can add is my agreement. A real spritual test will be to keep harmony, respect and ultimately love, between you and all you interact with, whilst keeping a balanced and moderate approach to your spirutal endeavours. :)

Practically this means going with the flow and what you mother provides whilst she is cook and you live with her. If you know she would be open to vegetrarianism alone, and that too suits you, then perhaps introduce that idea alone before you both next go shopping at the butchers/supermarket to restock. As to vegetrainism as a requirement, I expect there are los of threads on the advantages or disadavantages to help make it clear of the path to take.

There is no need to introduce anyone to your religious sentiments, at least not until you feel it will continue to keep the harmony. Sanatana Dharama, as someone wisely said on another post, is individual and is about your relationship with the divine.

Good luck :)

Eastern Mind
07 September 2010, 06:46 AM
Vannakkam Eric:

There are many others here who have been through this very dilemma, so it is a well worn path within the Hindu adoptive or convert group.

It is quite the jump from any 'really practising' path to Sanatana Dharma. The more solid the previous faith was, the more difficult the move away is. It sounds like your mother is a wonderful and very practising religious person. Many of us who are or were in the same boat had or have families who were more tolerant or open, so it may be hard for us to clearly grasp the severity of the situation.

One of the practical beliefs of Hinduism is patience. It is a direct effect of truly believing in reincarnation. Instead of the Abrahamic belief that it has to happen in this lifetime, we see it as 10, 100, lifetimes, or whatever. At present since you live with Mother, it seems to me that family harmony would override vegetarianism. Then when you get out on your own, you can adopt the new diet.

I am familiar with "How to Become a Hindu" by Subramuniyaswami. One of the things he advised was to return to the previous religion and practice it fully for a full year. This is to strongly confirm your new religion. Patience again. There is no hurry. In fact some people who do just that decide that the old religion isn't so bad. This gets rid of 'whims' and then doubts.

Another time on the island of Mauritius, there was a lot of fish eating going on within the people wanting to return to a pure Saiva belief. But this was really hard, because they had been brought up eating fish, and it was a staple, as it is on many islands. So Swami said, "I'll give you a year ." Once again, we see patience being advised.

Vegetarianism, although important, is not the be all and end all. There are another 10 lifestyle or religious practice choices that are just as necessary, like simple being kind to others, and not speaking harsh words.

Best wishes with your dilemma.

Aum Namasivaya

Sahasranama
07 September 2010, 06:58 AM
Don't repress your need to become vegetarian. Talk to your parents. What they say is not important, it's important that you talk about this. Maybe she'll support you, maybe not. But don't put this off until life is all roses without thorns. That's not gonna happen. You can always find excuses. Just grow some balls and tell your mommy you don't want to eat meat. If you are a sissy, you probably won't be able to stay vegetarian for very long anyway or achieve anything else of importance in life. In the past young people would stand up for their principles, but the current generation has become effeminate.

saidevo
07 September 2010, 07:37 AM
namaste everyone.

Many Hindus are non-vegetarians and yet advanced in devotional worship, but the point is that Hindus don't eat beef--many cannot even think about it. NV Hindus generally consume mutton, chicken and eggs (no pork). In South India, since people do eat rice at least once daily, the favourite NV dish is the briyANi, which is vegetable fried rice, mixed with mutton or chicken meat pieces.

Of course I understand that it is totally a different thing when a NV wants to become a vegetarian. I think this can be done progressively, but a Hindu IMO should avoid consumption of beef.

Being a NV is likely to be a hindrance to spiritual sAdhana by meditation (jnAna yoga), but most Hindus at the starter level start with bhakti yoga. Although ahimsA is a key principle, it is largely about not resorting personally and deliberately to causing violence to harmless beings and people. In fact there is a proverb in Tamizh which says, 'konRAl pAvam tinRAl pochchu'--'It's sin to kill but that sin is gone with eating (what is killed).' Of course, this proverb does not mean or encourage eating meat--only that if it is a must one needn't be uneasy over it, although one would do better to avoid it in the long run.

Eric11235
07 September 2010, 09:21 AM
Thank you all for your answers,this helps me greatly. I think I will tell her I have decided to become a vegetarian. She will understand that (For other reasons) hopefully, thank you again.

Namaste

Believer
07 September 2010, 09:30 AM
Just grow some balls and........

How does one go about doing that? ;)

atanu
07 September 2010, 09:53 AM
How does one go about doing that? ;)

I guess just as one develops biceps -- by working with them.

PARAM
07 September 2010, 10:10 AM


Eric

If you have some Hindu friends than your problem is solved, call them for the day, and tell your parents you will eat with you friends, and with them you can easily avoid beef and other non veg.;)

All please don't promote your personal choice as Hinduism




But if a north pole guy has to follow hindusim by being vegeterian then even God cannot save him.
Ofcourse Vegitrainism is not the only thing, but it is still important, All Hindu DharmGranth prohibits non-veg,



Many saints actually have non veg foods also.

Those who eat such banned products are nor dharmic, nobody have any right to offer any such thing as prasadam to any deity.

NetiNeti
07 September 2010, 10:17 AM
You are going to have to man up and tell her you are a vegetarian. Your fears are not worth an animals life and the defilement of your body. She doesn't need any explanation beyond your not wanting to eat it. It takes bravery to be a total vegetarian and we all have to explain ourselves once in awhile.

You'll find a lot of meat-eating apologists here. The cow is sacred to me as well but I know in my heart that I am to extend that same compassion to ALL creatures. They are all my brothers and sisters and I will not kill them. In my deepest meditation and even in everyday life, Brahma shows me that all creatures are to be loved and protected. He sends me wild cats to feed that allow me to pet them even though they usually act crazy. You can be a Hindu and eat meat but, in my opinion, you are not a very good one. Sure, Rama ate meat but he was Vishnu and is beyond explaining his actions. I cannot question his actions as God. The mere mortal man, though, is not Rama. Krishna told us what he eats in the Gita. Ramakrishna banned the eating of meat. Ghandi was against it as well. We need to learn to follow our hearts to protect life, even if it is a pain in the neck.

Its simple really. Don't kill or pay anyone to kill for you. So simple and so overlooked by many Hindus. Don't turn your body into a walking grave.

Eastern Mind
07 September 2010, 12:05 PM
Vannakkam Eric: Such diverse opinions reflect the diversity of our faith. In the end, it is up to you and you alone as to how you proceed. This is also part of our faith. Best wishes with whatever choice you make.

Aum namasivaya

kallol
07 September 2010, 12:38 PM


Eric

If you have some Hindu friends than your problem is solved, call them for the day, and tell your parents you will eat with you friends, and with them you can easily avoid beef and other non veg.;)

All please don't promote your personal choice as Hinduism


Ofcourse Vegitrainism is not the only thing, but it is still important, All Hindu DharmGranth prohibits non-veg,


Those who eat such banned products are nor dharmic, nobody have any right to offer any such thing as prasadam to any deity.



Dear Pranam,

I do not know whether you have exposure to total India.

More than 80% of Hindus are NV. Whole of Bengal is NV. I hope you know that even the saints from Bengal are NV.

I am NV. But I hope I could contribute positively to this forum.

I have not read much of scriptures so I would not be able to comment with confidence but the eco-system is defined for for veg and NV.

The choice of Veg is mostly to have better regulation of body and thereby the effect of the body on the mind. But hinduism is not limited by it. Prasadam - I think you need to travel a lot in India.

Do you have any scientific reasons why NV should not be taken ?

If you say that scripture does not permit then it becomes like any Abrahmic religion. Hinduism encourages enquiry till you are satisfied. Find out why.

Love and best wishes

Believer
07 September 2010, 01:11 PM
Only the people who have walked in those shoes are capable of giving meaningful & constructive suggestions for this problem. I for one, must withhold my opinions on this one.

(Instead, I will focus on growing something....that has been suggested by another poster :))

sunyata07
07 September 2010, 02:15 PM
Namaste Eric,

I might have been in your place a few years back. My mother is not terribly religious, but in her culture beef is practically a staple in any dinner, especially during special holidays. When I told her I was becoming vegetarian, she wasn't at all pleased for a long time (I was the 2nd of 3 children to tell her this). She might have been a little angry at first, but it subsided with time, and she respected my wishes to refrain from eating meat. Now it has become something of a little joke between us that I don't eat meat and that my youngest sister will be bound to be a veggie too.

I truly sympathise with your predicament, but I cannot see the benefit in keeping your lifestyle choice secret from her. (I got the feeling from your post that she might not approve of your new spiritual life?) In any case, I feel that sooner or later you are going to have to tell her; until then you are merely delaying the inevitable.

Are you adverse to consuming meat in the next week? If you can answer that question honestly with a "no", then for the sake of family harmony (which like the other members I also believe is very important) eat what your mother prepares for you and do not let it trouble you. If you have already stopped eating meat for a while and quail at the idea, my advice would be to bite the bullet and let her know.

The posts of the board members are not given to pressure you into doing what you don't want to do. But we are here to guide. This might be particularly relevant from the Western Hindus and newly converted on the forum who may still have ties with their old religions and lifestyles, or have family and friends whose eating and drinking habits differ from theirs drastically. It is up to you to decide. I have found that intuition (and gut instinct) has rarely led me astray, so don't ignore the voice in your heart about this.

Best of luck with your decisions.

OM Shanti

Sahasranama
07 September 2010, 02:38 PM
Just come out of the closet. :)

yajvan
07 September 2010, 02:40 PM
 
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté

Being a hindu and eatng meat is one thing; yet being a yogī or yoginī ( both being yogin-s), a sādhu , with the same issue - now one has a delimia.

praṇām
 

Eric11235
07 September 2010, 05:22 PM
thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it much. in regards to the vegetarianism, it is not just because of my religion alone, there are also things such as self-discipline and weight related issues, So I can tell her that i'm becoming a Vegetarian and she will understand. I believe I should tell her, but wait until the high holidays are over.

Namaste

atanu
07 September 2010, 11:32 PM
thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it much. in regards to the vegetarianism, it is not just because of my religion alone, there are also things such as self-discipline and weight related issues, So I can tell her that i'm becoming a Vegetarian and she will understand. I believe I should tell her, but wait until the high holidays are over.

Namaste

Namaste Eric

I do not understand the issue and why you need to grow big b-lls to tackle this, as suggested by someone. But may be I am speaking from my perspective.

In our family my brothers eat moderate quantities of Non-Veg. I do not and they accept it. I have no value judgement against their eating non-veg. Mother who supervises the kitchen sees to it that each one gets to eat.

You can simply tell your mother that you are weaning away from non-veg food because you do not like it any more. You can show her the videos that EM has shown to us here.

But that is my view and i do not know your constraints. If the above suits you, without causing any presssure, then just go ahead and simply tell her. As i understand, this is not a big issue from my perspective.


Best Wishes

Om Namah Shivaya

Sahasranama
08 September 2010, 03:42 AM
What I meant was that you don't need to be afraid to talk about this with your mother. Since you are 19 years old, she can't really force you to eat anything. When me and my sister first became a vegetarian when I was 12, my parents tried to force us to eat meat, but we didn't. Then they realised they were idiots and tried to become vegetarian for themselves, but failed after a few months. I have heard from someone else who wanted to become a vegetarian at that age that her parents would not feed her until she ate the meat. But since you are already an adult, that should not have to happen.

Ganeshprasad
08 September 2010, 06:34 AM
Pranam Eric
I am sure you have plenty to think about and made your mind by now, as for me i could not advise anyone to eat meat let alone beef, the cow is so sacred to us Hindus. Lord Krishna loves cow and Lord Shiva vehicle is a Bull, having said that i could not advise you to hurt your mother feelings either.



. You can be a Hindu and eat meat but, in my opinion, you are not a very good one. Sure, Rama ate meat but he was Vishnu and is beyond explaining his actions. I cannot question his actions as God.

pranam NetiNeti, what makes you so sure Ram ate meat, find me one verse from Ramayan that the meat was cooked and he actually ate it.you may answer this on other thread of animal sacrifice in Nepal so as not to pollute this thread.

Jai Shree Krishna

PARAM
08 September 2010, 10:08 AM


Dear Pranam,

I do not know whether you have exposure to total India.

More than 80% of Hindus are NV. Whole of Bengal is NV. I hope you know that even the saints from Bengal are NV.

I am NV. But I hope I could contribute positively to this forum.

I have not read much of scriptures so I would not be able to comment with confidence but the eco-system is defined for for veg and NV.

The choice of Veg is mostly to have better regulation of body and thereby the effect of the body on the mind. But hinduism is not limited by it. Prasadam - I think you need to travel a lot in India.

Do you have any scientific reasons why NV should not be taken ?

If you say that scripture does not permit then it becomes like any Abrahmic religion. Hinduism encourages enquiry till you are satisfied. Find out why.

Love and best wishes
I never said all India or even all world Hindus are vegitrain, but not all are Dharmic either.
Most of Bengalis do not belive in Ramayan and Mahabharat either, but most of Bangladeshi Hindus belive

Yes there are scientific reason with pure Dharmic, how can Hindu scripture become Abrahmic while opposing adarmic ? Tamasic is always banned in Hinduism and only Kaliyug is allowing it

We will talk and discuss about all this in another thread, this thread is for helping Eric



What I meant was that you don't need to be afraid to talk about this with your mother. Since you are 19 years old, she can't really force you to eat anything. When me and my sister first became a vegetarian when I was 12, my parents tried to force us to eat meat, but we didn't. Then they realised they were idiots and tried to become vegetarian for themselves, but failed after a few months. I have heard from someone else who wanted to become a vegetarian at that age that her parents would not feed her until she ate the meat. But since you are already an adult, that should not have to happen.

Nice thing, many Vegitrains have this kind of experiance Eric should be encouraged

NetiNeti
08 September 2010, 11:30 AM
thank you all for your advice, I appreciate it much. in regards to the vegetarianism, it is not just because of my religion alone, there are also things such as self-discipline and weight related issues, So I can tell her that i'm becoming a Vegetarian and she will understand. I believe I should tell her, but wait until the high holidays are over.

Namaste

Better yet, leave give her an reason she can't refute. Tell her you don't want to kill animals anymore. It's not that big of an issue when you put it like that and it should not ruin the holidays. If she make a big deal out of it tell her you are a grown man capable of deciding the course of you life.

satay
08 September 2010, 01:49 PM
namaste PARAM,




Tamasic is always banned in Hinduism and only Kaliyug is allowing it


Just curious, where do you get that 'Tamasic is banned'?

satay
08 September 2010, 01:54 PM
Namaste,

Isn't it as easy as saying, "I don't feel like eating that. I will just eat this." and pick some vegetables, potatoes etc.?

When I chose the vegetarian lifestyle about 5 years ago, everyone around me was shocked especially at work. Now if someone asks me I just say, "been there done that" while I eat the veggies.

Eating veggies haven't helped me with weight though...as you seem to be implying. Only exercise and eating 'right' can do that.



I am currently in a very volatile situation that I'm not sure I can defuse at the moment and it is leading to a breach in lifestyle. I have not told my mother that I am a hindu yet, and have not told her I have chosen the path of the vegetarian. What is worse, she is making beef products for the next week, and I cannot tell her for at least the next week (high holy days in judaism). What should I do? I can feel the effects of going against ahimsa and especially the consumption of beef. I've revealed my path to everyone else, but her. She presents...problems to put it lightly.

Assistance would be much appreciated

Namaste

NetiNeti
08 September 2010, 02:36 PM
Namaste,

Isn't it as easy as saying, "I don't feel like eating that. I will just eat this." and pick some vegetables, potatoes etc.?

When I chose the vegetarian lifestyle about 5 years ago, everyone around me was shocked especially at work. Now if someone asks me I just say, "been there done that" while I eat the veggies.

Eating veggies haven't helped me with weight though...as you seem to be implying. Only exercise and eating 'right' can do that.


Yeah...Veggies soaked in Ghee and tons of carbohydrates don't equate to a small waist. Exercise is key and still being aware of what you eat. Gulab is vegetarian but not healthy. ( I still eat it though)

Eric11235
08 September 2010, 03:09 PM
I'm not saying that vegetarianism equates to weight loss, but it will help me control my caloric intake, and I think help me choose healthier options, I'm getting plenty of exercise now that classes have started up again. As I also have said, I am in sore need of Self Discipline, and a good way to start is choosing my foods.

On another note, it appears that I am growing averse to meats. My mental approach is changing very fundamentally it would appear

In regards to my mother, I cannot say too much without revealing a lot of personal things, but I will say this, I cross her by accident on even the most mundane tasks, so the reason I am afraid is her penchant for anger

namaste

kiya kabooter
08 September 2010, 03:39 PM
On another note, it appears that I am growing averse to meats. My mental approach is changing very fundamentally it would appear


This happened to me as well. For years, I "tried" to be vegetarian, because I knew in my heart it was the right thing to do, but I always failed. Meat always was too much of a temptation for me and each time I would eat it, I would feel so bad. Eventually, I just went into a "blind state" where I didn't think whether it was right or wrong - I just ate it.

But now, something in me has shifted in such a big way and when I decided to stop eating meat this last time around, it was for good. I just felt it. And not once have I even desired meat at all. The thought of eating it seems absurd to me now. Once you make that mental shift, everything is different.




In regards to my mother, I cannot say too much without revealing a lot of personal things, but I will say this, I cross her by accident on even the most mundane tasks, so the reason I am afraid is her penchant for anger


I'm sorry to hear this. It must be difficult to have a relationship with your mom when she is so angry about things. Forgive me - I don't remember - do you still live at home with her?

satay
08 September 2010, 06:58 PM
namaste,

Okay, I will bite.

For me and for a lot of hindus, the mother is of utmost importance, and is held in a very high regards/position, perhaps even higher than God (for me she is anyway). It is because mother is the first Guru, we are 'here' because of her. Even God had to take birth through a mother.

Where am I going with this? Here it is...to please my mother.. I would eat any type of meal that she has prepared, yes, including meat.
(Though my mother is a vaishava and follow all vaishnava rules of diet i.e. not even going close to meat, eggs etc.)

Now, hold on and let me put my helmet on before you throw brickbats at me...


In regards to my mother, I cannot say too much without revealing a lot of personal things, but I will say this, I cross her by accident on even the most mundane tasks, so the reason I am afraid is her penchant for anger

namaste

Sahasranama
08 September 2010, 07:01 PM
All right, do have your helmet on?

To please on mother, you are willing to eat the flesh of another mother, gomata?

satay
08 September 2010, 07:04 PM
Well... I have said what I wanted to say.

Let me ask you this...if Kali mata showed in front of you and asked for offering of food of her choice...what are going to say? No?


All right, do have your helmet on?

To please on mother, you are willing to eat the flesh of another mother, gomata?

Sahasranama
08 September 2010, 07:07 PM
Depends, if she want to have the blood of rakshasas, I will provide.

satay
08 September 2010, 07:12 PM
That would be a noble task indeed. Look, I am not trying to justify eating meat but rather promoting the idea that mother is of utmost importance to a hindu and her wishes cannot simply be ignored. Not very simply...



Depends, if she want to have the blood of rakshasas, I will provide.

Sahasranama
08 September 2010, 07:18 PM
Born in a family of asuras, bhakta prahlada didn't listen to his parents. When a mother would forbid his son to have faith in ishvara or forbid him to be a vegetarian, that advice should be discarded.

satay
08 September 2010, 07:26 PM
Yes, a very good example. But I will stick to what I said, mother is of utmost importance to me.


Born in a family of asuras, bhakta prahlada didn't listen to his parents. When a mother would forbid his son to have faith in ishvara or forbid him to be a vegetarian, that advice should be discarded.

Eric11235
08 September 2010, 08:49 PM
Satay,

Don't get me wrong, I love my mother, but sometimes it is rather difficult to live with her. She has a high decibel yell which is very penetrating and very constant. Not only this, but she sees me as a failure in many respects (putting a more polite spin on it than what she apparently said). And also, I just had a major tiff with her and let slip that I am a hindu, we have not had the chance to talk about it.

I know I should be more respectful towards my mother, I am aware that respect need not be mutual to be had. But the way I was raised, respect should be mutual in my eyes. And she simply does not respect me.

Namaste

kallol
09 September 2010, 06:09 AM


I never said all India or even all world Hindus are vegitrain, but not all are Dharmic either.
Most of Bengalis do not belive in Ramayan and Mahabharat either, but most of Bangladeshi Hindus belive

Yes there are scientific reason with pure Dharmic, how can Hindu scripture become Abrahmic while opposing adarmic ? Tamasic is always banned in Hinduism and only Kaliyug is allowing it

We will talk and discuss about all this in another thread, this thread is for helping Eric




Nice thing, many Vegitrains have this kind of experiance Eric should be encouraged

Dear Param,

I like your spirited defence. And surely let us open a thread and have discussion on that.

I am just curious about Bengalis not believing in Ramayana and Mahabharata. Do you have any facts ?

I thought we had Ramayana as school text and some portions of Mahabharata. I thought Durga puja is directly linked to akal bodhon which Rama did before killing Ravana. Being a bengalee, I used to pride my knowledge on Ramayana and Mahabharata. You have put a big dent.

So just curious to know.

Love and best wishes

PARAM
09 September 2010, 08:11 AM
namaste PARAM,



Just curious, where do you get that 'Tamasic is banned'?



I think you already know about DharmGranths, which one allows Tamasik ?

There are three types of everything included food

Satvik- 100% allowed - All pure foods, milk products, Fruits, Vegitables, Sweets are Saatvik, all kind of prasadam is offered Satvik only

Rajas- Allowed if needed, but not everytime- All salty and bitter foods are rajsik, some natural products are also rajas like Onions and Garlik; It can be used with limit

Tamsik- Not allowed - All non vegitrain, rotten or toxic products, drugs, even vegitrain like alchohal and rotten milk, are strictly not allowed to consume.

All scientific finds have shown that those products (Tamsik) are harmful for body.

All DharmGranths also says human birth is important to attain Moksha, and we should take care of it.

Tamsik are strictly not allowed in Hinduism lets say banned.

PARAM
09 September 2010, 08:20 AM
Dear Param,

I like your spirited defence. And surely let us open a thread and have discussion on that.

I am just curious about Bengalis not believing in Ramayana and Mahabharata. Do you have any facts ?

I thought we had Ramayana as school text and some portions of Mahabharata. I thought Durga puja is directly linked to akal bodhon which Rama did before killing Ravana. Being a bengalee, I used to pride my knowledge on Ramayana and Mahabharata. You have put a big dent.

So just curious to know.

Love and best wishes

Let's make another thread
For Ramayan-Mahabharat (Itihas)

and for Veg-
I have meet many Punjabis and Bengalis who are vegitrain, and few Gujratis who are non vegitrain

NayaSurya
09 September 2010, 08:45 AM
I have six boys and two girls...I am a mother.

Vegetarian or not...your mother's house is your mother's rules. So the question is...do you live in your mother's home? Because this makes a huge difference.

As for these other claims that Hinduism bans NV diet. I have a load of natural born Hindu friends that must be banned from the religion for their spicey looking chicken dish.

I've seen it in their pictures during celebrations...

I have seen ice cream on the tamasic list. Ice cream!

Health has little to do with this.

Because of my complete stop of eating meat...I became so nutrionally deficient in B12 my life was compromised...I had to immediately start getting shots of B12 and was asked specifically if I was on some weird diet.:rolleyes: I was having such a hard time I was having neurological symptoms...tremors.

Bringing health or tamasic into this only muddies the waters.

This situation is about a young man living within his mother's home...and who has to follow certain rules until he is out on his own. Or one out on his own...and this is the most important factor.

We may not like them...my Mother wouldn't allow us to use certain hygeine products she deemed as "dirty".

She refused to buy them...her house...her rules.

My mother wasn't religious...but I waited to tell anyone that I wasn't christian in my family until I was out on my own. I had been nonchristian for years when I finally moved out at 18.

I know it's hard...but you have your whole life to be who you want. Right now, if you are under her roof...you are stuck.

A young man can not grow certain parts of his anatomy by disrespecting the head of his household. Respect of a child is not given, it is earned. Even respect of a Mother is earned by years of sacrifice and service.

If you are not under her roof, then by all means become who you want. Be a man....grow those parts:P

She will learn to accept you if she loves you.

Now, I am not saying you would have to eat meat even if you were living in her home. I doubt any mother is going to make you eat it at your age.:P

What I am saying is that you will have to listen to this argument a lot with her...if you are under her roof. It's just how Mothers roll.

kiya kabooter
09 September 2010, 09:38 AM
As a mother myself, I disagree with NayaSurya. Living under my roof does not necessarily mean that I should impose my own beliefs onto my children. Of course, I don't mean with everything. Part of the job of being a mother IS to impose our beliefs upon our children so that we may guide them into the life that we believe is best - for example, deciding how much sweets they are allowed to eat, what bedtime, how much TV, brushing their teeth, etc. But part of being a mother is also to raise men and women who know their own minds and act according to their own ideals and ethical values. I have made certain dietary choices in my life, but I do not impose those onto my children, for they too are still learning their own minds and will come to that decision (or not) on their own and in my opinion, yes I DO have to respect that. I do not allow meat into my home, because yes, this is MY home, and I do not want that death inside of my home. It makes me uneasy. But I do not ban my kids from eating meat outside of the home. That is their choice and it is theirs to make. They have reached an age where I cannot forbid them to not eat meat, just as I cannot forbid them to not drink sugary soda at a friend's house, etc. At some point, it becomes time for them to make their own choices and as mothers, we have to hope that the guidance we gave them to this point has been sufficient for them to make their own (informed) choices even if we don't agree with them.

As for B12 definciencies - yes, this is very serious. However, it is very easy to get the required levels of B12 by simply ingesting milk and dairy products. The Recommended Daily Allowance of B12 for an adult is 2.4 MICROgrams a day. A cup of milk has 1 microgram. A cup of yogurt has 1.4 micrograms. You can also eat fortified cereals. A cup of Cheerios has 1.7 micrograms. A cup of Special K has 6 micrograms. Etc. etc. etc.

Even vegans who eat no animal products can easily attain the RDA simply by using nutritional yeast. This is not brewers yeast, this is a different kind. It has a cheesy, nutty flavor. In 1 Tbsp. of this, there are 4 micrograms of B12. I use it in casseroles, soups, rice dishes, popcorn, pasta, on baked potatoes etc. etc.

I am certainly not saying you didn't have a B12 deficiency, if that is what your doctor told you. I am not saying all this to challenge your own experiences. I just don't want would-be vegetarians being scared off the path by scary stories of people getting really sick simply by not eating animals. At the very least, I am saying you can get more than adequate levels of B12 from eating dairy, if being vegan is not an option.

Sahasranama
09 September 2010, 09:45 AM
I would consider it child abuse if a mother forced an unwilling child to consume animal flesh. Of course, you have to discuss these things with your mother, but she cannot force you to eat meat.

Regarding vitamin b12, lacto-ovo-vegetarian can get some amount of b12, vegans don't get any at all. The b12 in plant food is not digestible. Any vegetarian would be adviced to take a high dose supplement of 1000 µg, preferably in a methyl-b12 form.


Allowance of B12 for an adult is 2.4 MICROgrams a day

This is very low and will likely result in deficiencies over the years.

satay
09 September 2010, 10:06 AM
namaste,

Yes, one of things I wanted to mention too was the B12 problem. Ever since I took on the purely vegetarian diet this has become an issue for me. Not to mention my mother who has severe lack of B12 and must take B12 vitamins every day. Lack of B12 can create all type of problems including 'forgetfulness' or loss of memory.

No one said road to spirituality is easy.

NayaSurya
09 September 2010, 10:06 AM
I was completely veg. No dairy, no egg..no meat. This has had to be modified.

As for cheerios...when one does not know they have such a deficiency to begin with...one is not likely to be seeking certain foods.

As all milk was out, dry cereal was not on my diet.

NayaSurya
09 September 2010, 10:17 AM
As a mother myself, I disagree with NayaSurya.


I don't see a disagreement. Of course, I didn't say all things. Being a good parent means you learn to pick your battles.

When one is not buying the food...one can not control what meat products are used.

My mother used to throw ham into our green beans...when under someone elses roof, you will have to ultimately bend to their habits unless you are willing to move out, or buy your own private foods that are not contaminated by meat products.

Sahasranama
09 September 2010, 10:19 AM
Simple solution to the b12 problem, is a high quality b12 supplement. I wouldn't advice eating high quantities of dairy( or eggs) on a daily basis, because it's easy to develop food intollerances or allergies.

goodlife
09 September 2010, 11:12 AM
i used to have non veg as kid ( infact whole family did) but we were only occasional eaters. one evening with my now late grandmother where she just said that by eating meat you were being responsible for being death of a living organism made me leave non veg without any fuss.its been more than two decades and never had the urge to consume non veg. i dont even have eggs. my whole family is veg on their own.

thankfully non of us suffers any B12 deficiency. i dunno how this props up?

as for Eric, consider advice by all members but listen to what your heart says. i did not become veg cuz my grand mother said so but because what she said resonated with what i was, what i am. i can not hurt any one, not even animals so leaving non veg instantly was a non issue.

all the very best

Sahasranama
09 September 2010, 11:16 AM
thankfully non of us suffers any B12 deficiency. i dunno how this props up?

b12 deficiency can take decades to cause symptons and then it's not always diagnosed correctly. It's prudent to start taking a high dose b12 supplement daily.

Ganeshprasad
09 September 2010, 03:45 PM
Pranam Satay


namaste,

Okay, I will bite.

For me and for a lot of hindus, the mother is of utmost importance, and is held in a very high regards/position, perhaps even higher than God (for me she is anyway). It is because mother is the first Guru, we are 'here' because of her. Even God had to take birth through a mother.

Where am I going with this? Here it is...to please my mother.. I would eat any type of meal that she has prepared, yes, including meat.
(Though my mother is a vaishava and follow all vaishnava rules of diet i.e. not even going close to meat, eggs etc.)


This is a lofty ideal, I know, I have failed in that, not in a major way but still with hind sight I would have done things differently, enough off that.

You are right the mother holds that special place in Hindu society, Shastra says we have Matru runa (obligation) Pitru runa and Deva runa, we may fulfil the later two but Matru can never be completed.

There are some great examples in history where mother have been honoured Ganeshji is prime example, he would not let his father to enter,
Naradji served her mother even though he wanted to leave home and joined the Rishis, all fivePandavas had to merry Droupadi simply because even though in ignorance Mata Kunti ji asked them to share what ever they had brought home, pandavas were agyakari (obedient) (remember these are grown man who could conquer the whole world) so they accepted her words and all five were obliged to merry her.

Sankracharya would not take sanyas until her mother gave the permission but it is sad to notice today certain sect encourage young person to rebel against the family tradition and worship in preference to their version of Vedic dharma. I know a very recent incidence this girl has now refused to speak to her parents. Hindu dharma enjoys us to seek the blessings off our parents or else even the Gods would not be please with us. I know in the west it is different culture so they might feel this as strange.

How ever on the other hand today some women are ready to taint that lofty motherhood that we are so proud off, how can they be so callous and heartless to abort their unborn babies? I am afraid we live in a strange time.




Now, hold on and let me put my helmet on before you throw brickbats at me...

So Satay no need to put that helmet on my account.

Jai Shree Krishna

kiya kabooter
09 September 2010, 08:46 PM
NayaSurya -


As all milk was out, dry cereal was not on my diet.

we use almond milk on our cereal. YUM! :)

Yes, you're right - we do not disagree as much as I may have inferred. Just different ways to get at similar points.

Ganeshprasad-




how can they be so callous and heartless to abort their unborn babies?


Wow. That's a pretty huge assumption on your part.

PARAM
10 September 2010, 11:32 AM



namaste,

Yes, one of things I wanted to mention too was the B12 problem. Ever since I took on the purely vegetarian diet this has become an issue for me. Not to mention my mother who has severe lack of B12 and must take B12 vitamins every day. Lack of B12 can create all type of problems including 'forgetfulness' or loss of memory.

No one said road to spirituality is easy.
Even many rishi muni went to forest for Tapsya, they remained without proper food

Kheera (Cucumber) is rich in vitamin b, also Soya and Milk products are great source of it.



As for these other claims that Hinduism bans NV diet. I have a load of natural born Hindu friends that must be banned from the religion for their spicey looking chicken dish.

Hinduism is not a powerful leader's group
Vedas, Upnishads, Samhintas, Shastras, Samritis, Purans etc all DharmGranths bans all Non veg




I've seen it in their pictures during celebrations...

I have seen ice cream on the tamasic list. Ice cream!

Join celebrations there is nothing like that
Some Ice creams contains egg, some are made of fake or spoiled milk thats why they are tamsik.




Because of my complete stop of eating meat...I became so nutrionally deficient in B12 my life was compromised...I had to immediately start getting shots of B12 and was asked specifically if I was on some weird diet.:rolleyes: I was having such a hard time I was having neurological symptoms...tremors.
Many strict vegitarians are in good health, while many NV are in ill health too.

NayaSurya
10 September 2010, 12:59 PM
Kheera (Cucumber) is rich in vitamin b, also Soya and Milk products are great source of it..



Not true, cucumber is not a nutritional source of Vitamin B12...humans can not metabolize Vitamin B12 from plant sources even if it did.

"According to the UK Vegan Society- the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans because B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism."





Many strict vegitarians are in good health, while many NV are in ill health too.

No one here stated that all Vegetarians were ill...

Just because you get cancer from cigarettes doesn't mean you can't get it from overexposure to the sun.

This issue isn't about how ill we get from veg diet...though as a parent perhaps his Mother would have this concern and rightfully so.

This issue isn't about how I parent, or even other members would parent in this situation. This issue is about a young man who wants to be vegetarian but is still perhaps living under his mother's roof. It's about how his mother parents.

But the problem is...his Mother could fix an entire meal untainted by meat for him each day...or she could feel she could not afford the time and energy for such things being she is not vegetarian. This would completely be her decision. If you live in someone elses home and they pay for food...you eat what they provide.

Just as you can forbid meat in your home as a parent, another parent may feel a balanced diet including meat is important.

I am wary of most things cooked in other peoples homes. As the grills used to cook meats could be used to cook vegetables. People add beef lard to vegetables for season...you just never know what you are eating.

Even if his mother were to afford him certain foods...they would still be prepared in a non veg kitchen which is like how McDonald's handled their situation. Frying the vegetables in beef tallow or in the same oil as chicken means those vegs are no longer veg.

The best you can hope for is to hope she understands your commitment and tries to help you. Goodluck<3

kiya kabooter
10 September 2010, 01:53 PM
Just as you can forbid meat in your home as a parent, another parent may feel a balanced diet including meat is important.


Of course I agree with you that some parents would think this - the difference is that by not allowing meat into my home (I know you weren't directing this at me, so no defensiveness here; just explanation) I am not offending their morality. I am merely not allowing them to eat something. By expecting a veg. to eat meat, you are not merely making a dietary expectation, you're offending their morality. It is not offensive to my kids to not eat meat, but the same is not true vice versa. That's the difference.

Having said that I think you're right when it comes to eating food that your parents provide when you are living with them and they pay for food. I do not think a parent should "force" anyone to eat meat - people who do not have financial means to buy their own food could simply not eat the meat, but those that are old enough to contribute financially for food should do so. Also, no mom minds a son helping to prepare food in the kitchen! And that would be a great way to make sure your food is to your liking.

Good luck anyway, Eric. I know it's not easy when our lives differ in principle from others that we share space with - but if you live according to your principles, your gut will tell you what is right.

PARAM
11 September 2010, 10:18 AM
Not true, cucumber is not a nutritional source of Vitamin B12...humans can not metabolize Vitamin B12 from plant sources even if it did.

"According to the UK Vegan Society- the present consensus is that any B12 present in plant foods is likely to be unavailable to humans because B12 analogues can compete with B12 and inhibit metabolism."


The UK vegan society haven't mentioned which kind of vegiterian products they are using; many groups are using GM foods, who know what they are using. I use cucumber and milk products, I use all vegiterian products.








No one here stated that all Vegetarians were ill...

Just because you get cancer from cigarettes doesn't mean you can't get it from overexposure to the sun.


Ofcource Sun won't effect that bad, sun is the life source, only deadly rays like ultraviolet can have harmful effect Globle warming is responsible for wrong effects





This issue isn't about how ill we get from veg diet...though as a parent perhaps his Mother would have this concern and rightfully so.

This issue isn't about how I parent, or even other members would parent in this situation. This issue is about a young man who wants to be vegetarian but is still perhaps living under his mother's roof. It's about how his mother parents.

But the problem is...his Mother could fix an entire meal untainted by meat for him each day...or she could feel she could not afford the time and energy for such things being she is not vegetarian. This would completely be her decision. If you live in someone elses home and they pay for food...you eat what they provide.

Just as you can forbid meat in your home as a parent, another parent may feel a balanced diet including meat is important.

I am wary of most things cooked in other peoples homes. As the grills used to cook meats could be used to cook vegetables. People add beef lard to vegetables for season...you just never know what you are eating.

Even if his mother were to afford him certain foods...they would still be prepared in a non veg kitchen which is like how McDonald's handled their situation. Frying the vegetables in beef tallow or in the same oil as chicken means those vegs are no longer veg.

The best you can hope for is to hope she understands your commitment and tries to help you. Goodluck<3







Thanks for Mcdonald comment, I will never eat anything from Mcdonald, and yes KFC is also making veg products but I don't trust them.

And as for family health, think again Real Vegiterians are more healthy

Odion
11 September 2010, 10:54 AM
Namaste Eric,

You have my sympathies. All I could offer you as as advice is what I believe you have done: to tell her you've become vegetarian, perhaps because you have "gone off" meat recently. It would be better to tell your mother sooner rather than later.

Putting myself in your mother's shoes, I'd be pretty peeved if I'd spent hours cooking some meat to have my child say "Ah, no, I'm not eating that" instead of "Mom, don't cook me any meat, I've gone off it recently, so I don't want you to waste it."

As a convert, I've been quite lucky in my opinion, nobody has disowned me nor have I had any arguments from my choice, thankfully. The closest problem I've had is, shortly after I began following Sanatana Dharma, during a visit to my parent's house I went into the kitchen. My mother was cooking. She asked, "I'm cooking up some steak, do you want any yet?"

I simply said "No thanks mom, I'm vegetarian now, remember?"

Her reply was "Oh that's right, you've become a Thingy* haven't you? I've got some veggie burgers in, do you want one or two of them?" And that was all there was to it.

(* She didn't mean thingy in a mean way, just thought I'd point that out as it's difficult to express emotion in writing :))

Hope things go easy for you!! :)

kallol
11 September 2010, 01:38 PM
A few important questions :

1. What is meant by vegeterian food ?

2. To what extent / levels we should define the vegeterian way of living ?

3. How was the vegeterian concept in hinduism before buddhism / jainism ? As there are many many instances of NV.

4. Whether vegeterian food led to SD or the vice versa ?

5. What would people do if vegeterian food is not available ? or before agriculture why was hunting a main source for food ? Is this not a natural way of living ?

6. Why is vegeterianism considered important ?

Let us try to answer this either here or on a seperate thread.

Love and best wishes

kiya kabooter
12 September 2010, 08:30 AM
whew... big questions. I wish I had time to give my thoughts, but I really don't. However, there is a forum here: http://www.veggieboards.com and everyone is free to read, whether you are registered or not. I'm sure just by scrolling through the main index, you can find some threads with great information.




A few important questions :

1. What is meant by vegeterian food ?

2. To what extent / levels we should define the vegeterian way of living ?

3. How was the vegeterian concept in hinduism before buddhism / jainism ? As there are many many instances of NV.

4. Whether vegeterian food led to SD or the vice versa ?

5. What would people do if vegeterian food is not available ? or before agriculture why was hunting a main source for food ? Is this not a natural way of living ?

6. Why is vegeterianism considered important ?

Let us try to answer this either here or on a seperate thread.

Love and best wishes

kallol
12 September 2010, 10:49 AM
whew... big questions. I wish I had time to give my thoughts, but I really don't. However, there is a forum here: http://www.veggieboards.com and everyone is free to read, whether you are registered or not. I'm sure just by scrolling through the main index, you can find some threads with great information.

Thanks Kiya for the link.

I am more interested to find out the vegeterian way of life vis-a-vis SD and the history of it in Hindu culture.

Love and best wishes

kiya kabooter
12 September 2010, 11:09 AM
I am more interested to find out the vegeterian way of life vis-a-vis SD and the history of it in Hindu culture.


you're welcome for the link. And yes, I understand that vegetarianism in context with Sanatana Dharma is what you're looking for, and not so much the "run of the mill" reasons. I don't think the two are mutually exclusive though. If you read the veggieboards forum - especially the vegan forum there - you'll see that the reasoning seems to be very much in line with the point of views I hear from Buddhists, Hindus, etc. as to their reasons for being vegetarian. I guess the answers could differ once you get scriptures and religious dogma involved, but that aspect doesn't interest me at all. I just do what my gut tells me is the right thing to do, and eating animals isn't included in that.

I would love to hear what others say about it though! And once I have more than a few minutes I will probably come back to this and articulate my thoughts a bit more.

Also, this may be a good thread all on its own - maybe you could start a new one, for everyone to be able to discuss this at length without veering off-topic of Eric's thread? Then it could be easily found in the future by users searching for threads on vegetarianism. :)

Eastern Mind
12 September 2010, 11:35 AM
Thanks Kiya for the link.

I am more interested to find out the vegeterian way of life vis-a-vis SD and the history of it in Hindu culture.

Love and best wishes

Vannakkam kallol: Certainly it was around in Tamil culture at least 2200 years ago as Tiruvalluvar wrote on it. Here is a link to one translation.

http://ramvenkat-1983.blogspot.com/2010/07/thirukkural-about-vegetarianism.html

Also did you try browsing the whole large section on vegetarianism on HDF from the index?

Aum Namasivaya

kallol
13 September 2010, 02:57 AM
Thanks for guidance EM.

Love and best wishes