In defense of ISKCON.....

[Believer]

Hinduism consists of a mosaic of different schools of thought. We have Shiv Mandirs and Ram Mandirs and Durga Mandirs and Hanuman Mandirs and no one gives it a second thought. But ISKCON gets vilified for their devotion to Lord Krishna. Granted that this exclusivity breeds some negative feelings among some people, but it is still a Hindu Mandir and worthy of our love and support. We may raise questions about some of their practices and beliefs, and if the ISKCON devotees feel comfortable visiting the forum, they will post explanations. If not, Oh well. They are not obligated to indulge in prolonged discussions about every aspect of their observances. For God's sake, it is our professed faith, and we should know about most of the practices. As with other aspects of life, we select things we buy, people we associate with, the area we live in, profession we select, based on the totality of our personalities. Why would selection of a spiritual path be any different? So, if ISKCON is not for us, we move on. I see no need to rip it apart at the seams. We, as inquiring minds, do ask pointed questions before we become part of any sampradaye. And if it is not suitable for our taste, we look for one that will meet our spiritual needs. But we should spare throwing barbs at ISKCON or any other sampradaye, including Arya Samaj, which is against murti puja. At the end of the day, there has to be unity among the ranks of all shades of Hinduism, for us to survive. We have been divided and ruled by others for too long. Let us not do the same thing to ourselves.

ISKCON Mandirs in India are the ones where people from all ethnic groups and all social strata feel welcome. The last all-welcoming Mandir in Delhi, Laxmi Narayan Mandir was completed in 1939. Then we had to wait for almost 60 years till another all-welcoming Mandir, the ISKCON Mandir, came in to being in 1998. And they have built Mandirs in other areas of India too. Sure there are bad apples in every sampradaye, but the thing to remember is that the sampradaye is not bad because some of the messengers are bad. When we start bad mouthing a sampradaye, we shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken ourselves. Outsiders would love to see that drama - Hindus fighting among themselves. Is that the spectacle we want to present to the world? I hope not.

[Yogkriya]

Hinduism consists of a mosaic of different schools of thought.

Absolutely right. Just like the Vedic Sanatana Dharma does. It's not limited to one thing alone.


We have Shiv Mandirs and Ram Mandirs and Durga Mandirs and Hanuman Mandirs and no one gives it a second thought.
Beautiful isn't it? Just like in Vedic culture, there is worship of these deities.

But ISKCON gets vilified for their devotion to Lord Krishna.
Well but this my dear friend, is wrongly reflected by you.

Iskcon cannot get vilified by any Hindu for devotion to Lord Krishna. This is plain silly. Though the last time that Iskcon did get vilified for devotion to Krishna was in Kazakhstan where Hare Krsna devotee houses were snatched and demolished by that govt. Kazakhstan is majorly Islamic country. The reason given was that they are unauthorized. But it was all very biased.
At that point, Iskcon posted videos as "Hindus" suffering in Kazakhstan.
In Russia, some orthodox church father blasphemed Iskcon and abused Lord Krishna. But these are not Hindus.


Granted that this exclusivity breeds some negative feelings among some people, but it is still a Hindu Mandir and worthy of our love and support. We may raise questions about some of their practices and beliefs, and if the ISKCON devotees feel comfortable visiting the forum, they will post explanations. If not, Oh well. They are not obligated to indulge in prolonged discussions about every aspect of their observances. For God's sake, it is our professed faith, and we should know about most of the practices. As with other aspects of life, we select things we buy, people we associate with, the area we live in, profession we select, based on the totality of our personalities. Why would selection of a spiritual path be any different? So, if ISKCON is not for us, we move on. I see no need to rip it apart at the seams. We, as inquiring minds, do ask pointed questions before we become part of any sampradaye. And if it is not suitable for our taste, we look for one that will meet our spiritual needs. But we should spare throwing barbs at ISKCON or any other sampradaye, including Arya Samaj, which is against murti puja. At the end of the day, there has to be unity among the ranks of all shades of Hinduism, for us to survive. We have been divided and ruled by others for too long. Let us not do the same thing to ourselves.

ISKCON Mandirs in India are the ones where people from all ethnic groups and all social strata feel welcome. The last all-welcoming Mandir in Delhi, Laxmi Narayan Mandir was completed in 1939. Then we had to wait for almost 60 years till another all-welcoming Mandir, the ISKCON Mandir, came in to being in 1998. And they have built Mandirs in other areas of India too. Sure there are bad apples in every sampradaye, but the thing to remember is that the sampradaye is not bad because some of the messengers are bad. When we start bad mouthing a sampradaye, we shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken ourselves. Outsiders would love to see that drama - Hindus fighting among themselves. Is that the spectacle we want to present to the world? I hope not.

Ok. Let me reply here. Dear Believer,
Well, firstly its nice of you to start a newer thread. Please accept my obeisances! I hope I'm able to clarify my position which is not of offending iskcon or Krishna devotees in any way, except than to address to a few issues that are off for others is all.
Jai Gurudev and Jai shri Krishna!

If you CAREFULLY READ my previous post, actually several previous posts, I have enlisted a few issues that are prevalent within the sect that are problematic and do not resonate with ancient Vedic spirit. Unfortunately, these issues are creation of the leaders not the few bad apples of the sub-sect.

Now you post claiming that you get bashed for worshipping Krsna! I don't think anybody could have a problem with someone worshiping Lord Krishna. What's so different that you do here?? Krishna worship has been there in Hinduism for ages. Vaishnavism is ONE OF THE HINDU VEDIC sampradayas.
For similar people who need to be told again and again, here it is yet again:
I or Hindus in general don't have a problem with Hare Krsnas's devotion to Krsna only. Devotional bhakti towards Lord Krishna is WONDERFUL. And yes its still a part of the Hindu pantheon and should get all the love and support.
There is no problem with that either.

A sadhak can develop attachment towards one deity. This is ok and in Sanatana Hindu dharma, a sadhak may be worshipping Durga and his attachment would be towards her form mostly. His worship mantras, dhyan etc. all would be then aimed at pleasing Durga. He may be attached to Shiva or Lord Krishna or Rama. But he wouldn't care to criticize someone who is attached to another form of God as a fool, simply because he is not worshipping your way or your form of God.
.."But we should spare throwing barbs at ISKCON ..." The barbs were started by Iskcon policies that are just coming back is all. Its sad, but true. I wish Srila Prabhupad wouldn't have bashed and demeaned Hinduism, categorized Shiva as a demi-semi God in ignorance able to give only some material benefits that too with Krishna's permission and unable to liberate and wish he wouldn't have abused saints from other sampradayas as "fools and rascals". When something is said by the leader of a sect, it has a multiple long lasting affect as the following generations feel obliged to hold on to that stance and repeat it.
Yes its great, that Iskcon temples welcome all. But as an experiment to "openness" I've greeted some of the people with Jai Gurudev! or Namah Shivaya and I see the smiles disappear fast. Of course some people greet in the same spirit and then I say Hare Krsna! :)
Also, not being an official member or initiate of Iskcon, I would readily go to any Iskcon temple and do service. When I lived outside India, we would go to Isckon temples and serve at the festivals or donate regularly. How many Iskcon devotees would do that going to a Shiva temple? That's another question. But then, as you said, its what you want. And it is to be respected.

If you are devoted to Lord Krishna, then its wonderful and you are blessed!!

I agree with the spirit in your post and yes we should stick together as a part of the whole.

Warm regards,
Hari Bol!
Namah Shivaya!

Yogkriya

[Believer]

Disclaimer: Although I have been going to ISKCON temples off and on for 30 years, I am not an initiated ISKCON devotee, or associated exclusively with a particular deity. Being a Hindu, I accept all of them to be my Lords and worthy of my puja, love, respect, service and devotion.


But he wouldn't care to criticize someone who is attached to another form of God as a fool, simply because he is not worshipping your way or your form of God.

True, I don't like it, but I overlook it as their shortcoming. After all, devotee of any deity thinks his is the best - a clear lack of understanding of God's nature and reach.


.."But we should spare throwing barbs at ISKCON ..." The barbs were started by Iskcon policies that are just coming back is all. Its sad, but true. I wish Srila Prabhupad wouldn't have bashed and demeaned Hinduism, categorized Shiva as a demi-semi God in ignorance able to give only some material benefits that too with Krishna's permission and unable to liberate and wish he wouldn't have abused saints from other sampradayas as "fools and rascals".

That was most unfortunate, but we should move beyond that. Their interpretation of Bhagwad Gita dictates that Lord Krishan considered all other deities to be demgods, and they have to live with that. I don't have to be 100% on board with any philosophy or with a person, before I like them. Heck, we don't even agree 100% of the time with our spouses, and we still tolerate them. ;)


Yes its great, that Iskcon temples welcome all. But as an experiment to "openness" I've greeted some of the people with Jai Gurudev! or Namah Shivaya and I see the smiles disappear fast. Of course some people greet in the same spirit and then I say Hare Krsna! :)


I think that is a little mischievous. When I visit a Hanuman Mandir, I don't greet the devotees there with 'Jai Shri Krishna'. That is disrespectful to the presiding deity of that Mandir.
By all-welcoming Mandir, I mean, it is not a Gujrati-specific or Benagali-specific or a Tamil-specific or a Hindi bhai-specific Mandir. Because of its uniformity and non-ethnic look, an ISKCON Mandir looks and really is inviting to all.

Bottom line: Every shade of Hinduism has peculiarities, and what may appear to be negative factors to people outside of that sampradaye. But we have to move beyond that, overlook the differences and try to forge unity. Else, we will remain weak/divided and be easy targets for conversion.

[AhamAtma]

Hinduism consists of a mosaic of different schools of thought. We have Shiv Mandirs and Ram Mandirs and Durga Mandirs and Hanuman Mandirs and no one gives it a second thought.


Yes.. you are right.



But ISKCON gets vilified for their devotion to Lord Krishna. Granted that this exclusivity breeds some negative feelings among some people, but it is still a Hindu Mandir


No. I beg to differ. No one vilifies ISKCON for their devotion towards Krsna. It is ISKCON which vilifies other sects for not sharing it'sviews and for worshiping God other than Krsna. It was Srila Prabhupada who called great people like Aurobindo, Ramakrishna paramahansa, Vivekananda..etc as "FOOLS and RASCALS".

You said "ISKCON Temples are Hindu Mandirs". I'd have been very glad if it had come from Iskcon. Sadly, ISKCON denied the fact.




Hindus fighting among themselves. Is that the spectacle we want to present to the world? I hope not.

In 1977 srila Prabhupada wrote in 'Science of Self Realization', "There is a misconception that the Krishna consciousness movement represents the Hindu religion. Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not." In chapter three of the book [available from Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge, North Carolina 27046 USA], this startling point is made several times: "The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion."

Followers of Srila Prabhupada have assembled all of his letters, books, lectures, interviews and conversations on the Bhaktivedanta Vedabase [also available from Bhaktivedanta Archives]. This CD-Rom database yielded 183 references to Hinduism, which were compiled and analyzed to understand Srila Prabhupada's point of view.

Often Srila Prabhupada would simply deny the existence of a religion called "Hinduism." He attributed the improper designation to "foreign invaders." At other times he acknowledged the existence of the faith, but considered it a hopelessly degraded form of the original Sanatana Dharma of the Vedas. In his April, 1967, New York lectures he said, "Although posing as great scholars, ascetics, householders and swamis, the so-called followers of the Hindu religion are all useless, dried-up branches of the Vedic religion." ISKCON, he believed, was the only true exponent of the Vedic faith today. In an interview given for Bhavan's Journal he said, "India, they have given up the real religious system, Sanatana Dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. Therefore there is trouble."
The Guru frequently explained his position, and acted upon his beliefs in establishing his dynamic society. At a 1974 Mumbai lecture, he declared, "We are not preaching Hindu religion. While registering the association, I purposely kept this name, 'Krishna Consciousness,' neither Hindu religion nor Christian nor Buddhist religion."

Srila Prabhupada was aware that the Indian community had a mistaken impression of his Hinduness. In a 1970 letter to a temple administrator in Los Angeles, he wrote, "The Hindu community in the West has got some good feeling for me because superficially they are seeing that I am spreading Hindu religion, but factually this Krishna Consciousness movement is neither Hindu religion nor any other religion." That remains the case today, for Srila Prabhupada left no successor with the authority to change his spiritual edicts.
So why does the general Hindu community mistakenly believe that ISKCON is a Hindu organization, when it never describes itself as such? Well, it sometimes does. During the ISKCON temple openings in New Delhi and Bangalore, where newspaper reports frequently identified the grand temples as Hindu, the ISKCON press releases, such as that of April 15, 1998, never used the H word. Yet, when Indian devotees serving at each of those temples thought it was a Hindu temple. The discrepancy between public perception and internal policy is further confused by the group's official exceptions to the non-Hindu position. Faced with difficulties, ISKCON leaders have appealed to the Hindu community to back them up, as in a dispute over the Bhaktivedanta Manor in the UK or when being hassled by Christians in Russia and Poland. In appeals to judges and governments, the word Hindu is openly used. In other legal cases, including one to the US Supreme Court, ISKCON has attempted to counteract the "cult" label by claiming to be a traditional Hindu lineage, and asked other Hindus to affirm this in the courts. Other organizations who parted company with Hinduism, such as Transcendental Meditation and Brahma Kumaris, do not compromise their position under any circumstances.
What also sets ISKCON apart is its open repudiation and criticism of Hinduism, especially among members. There are Hindus who joined ISKCON only to be taught to reject their family's religion. Some people usually say"Previously we were Hindus. Now we are Hare Krishnas,". At the same time, the organization often appeals to the Hindu community and businessmen for financial support of its social programs and political help to protect ISKCON from detractors.
Considering ISKCON's appearances--member's dress, names, bhajana, festivals, worship, scripture, pilgrimage, temple building, and so forth--it's little wonder that so many have assumed they are Hindus. To find out they are not will certainly surprise many--Hindus and non-Hindus alike. It may even surprise a few Hare Krishnas themselves.


Regards
AhamAtma.

[Believer]

Aham,

I have known ISKCON for over 30 years. So, I know about all the things that you have listed, and I will not deny any of them. I could even add a few more things to the laundry list. But where would that lead us? I am not asking you to check into one of their Mandirs and get initiated. All I am asking is to look beyond the negative, focus on the positive and build bridges, unite in an effort to have one Hindu voice. We have spent too much time nitpicking each other. Every sampradaye has its good points, and some quirks which are not palatable to non-members. With any sense of religiosity, and even a minute desire to advance spiritually, we must forgive, forget, overlook and move forward.

I am not an ISKCON initiated devotee, not even a regular attendee at their weekly Sunday program. I am just trying to make a case that we should let go of the past, get along with them and unite our fragmented Hindu community. Can I count on your understanding of this basic effort?

[rcscwc]

Hinduism consists of a mosaic of different schools of thought. We have Shiv Mandirs and Ram Mandirs and Durga Mandirs and Hanuman Mandirs and no one gives it a second thought. But ISKCON gets vilified for their devotion to Lord Krishna.


No Hindu villifies a Krishna Mandir. There are thousands of Krishna Mandirs across India.



Granted that this exclusivity breeds some negative feelings among some people, but it is still a Hindu Mandir and worthy of our love and support.

No one feels negativity about them. No Hindu calls an explanation from ISKCON adherents.



ISKCON Mandirs in India are the ones where people from all ethnic groups and all social strata feel welcome. The last all-welcoming Mandir in Delhi, Laxmi Narayan Mandir was completed in 1939. Then we had to wait for almost 60 years till another all-welcoming Mandir, the ISKCON Mandir, came in to being in 1998. And they have built Mandirs in other areas of India too. Sure there are bad apples in every sampradaye, but the thing to remember is that the sampradaye is not bad because some of the messengers are bad. When we start bad mouthing a sampradaye, we shoot ourselves in the foot and weaken ourselves. Outsiders would love to see that drama - Hindus fighting among themselves. Is that the spectacle we want to present to the world? I hope not.

All mandirs are open to all Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhist unconditionally.


If some ISKCON wallahs deny that their mandir is a Hindu mandir, then there are potent political reasons. In India it pays to be declared a non Hindu minority. To be part of Hindu majority is to be at a disadvantage.

[Yogkriya]

No Hindu villifies a Krishna Mandir. There are thousands of Krishna Mandirs across India.




No one feels negativity about them. No Hindu calls an explanation from ISKCON adherents.



All mandirs are open to all Hindus, Sikhs, Jains and Buddhist unconditionally.


If some ISKCON wallahs deny that their mandir is a Hindu mandir, then there are potent political reasons. In India it pays to be declared a non Hindu minority. To be part of Hindu majority is to be at a disadvantage.

Namaskar!

Very True!!!!

Regards,

Yogkriya

[Yogkriya]

Aham,

I have known ISKCON for over 30 years. So, I know about all the things that you have listed, and I will not deny any of them. I could even add a few more things to the laundry list. But where would that lead us? I am not asking you to check into one of their Mandirs and get initiated. All I am asking is to look beyond the negative, focus on the positive and build bridges, unite in an effort to have one Hindu voice. We have spent too much time nitpicking each other. Every sampradaye has its good points, and some quirks which are not palatable to non-members. With any sense of religiosity, and even a minute desire to advance spiritually, we must forgive, forget, overlook and move forward.

I am not an ISKCON initiated devotee, not even a regular attendee at their weekly Sunday program. I am just trying to make a case that we should let go of the past, get along with them and unite our fragmented Hindu community. Can I count on your understanding of this basic effort?

... wish Shri Abhoycharan De had understood all that before bashing all others ...
But now we should make amends and refrain from offenses.
Jai Shri Krishna!

[Yogkriya]

Yes.. you are right.



No. I beg to differ. No one vilifies ISKCON for their devotion towards Krsna. It is ISKCON which vilifies other sects for not sharing it'sviews and for worshiping God other than Krsna. It was Srila Prabhupada who called great people like Aurobindo, Ramakrishna paramahansa, Vivekananda..etc as "FOOLS and RASCALS".

You said "ISKCON Temples are Hindu Mandirs". I'd have been very glad if it had come from Iskcon. Sadly, ISKCON denied the fact.




In 1977 srila Prabhupada wrote in 'Science of Self Realization', "There is a misconception that the Krishna consciousness movement represents the Hindu religion. Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not." In chapter three of the book [available from Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge, North Carolina 27046 USA], this startling point is made several times: "The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion."

Followers of Srila Prabhupada have assembled all of his letters, books, lectures, interviews and conversations on the Bhaktivedanta Vedabase [also available from Bhaktivedanta Archives]. This CD-Rom database yielded 183 references to Hinduism, which were compiled and analyzed to understand Srila Prabhupada's point of view.

Often Srila Prabhupada would simply deny the existence of a religion called "Hinduism." He attributed the improper designation to "foreign invaders." At other times he acknowledged the existence of the faith, but considered it a hopelessly degraded form of the original Sanatana Dharma of the Vedas. In his April, 1967, New York lectures he said, "Although posing as great scholars, ascetics, householders and swamis, the so-called followers of the Hindu religion are all useless, dried-up branches of the Vedic religion." ISKCON, he believed, was the only true exponent of the Vedic faith today. In an interview given for Bhavan's Journal he said, "India, they have given up the real religious system, Sanatana Dharma. Fictitiously, they have accepted a hodgepodge thing which is called Hinduism. Therefore there is trouble."
The Guru frequently explained his position, and acted upon his beliefs in establishing his dynamic society. At a 1974 Mumbai lecture, he declared, "We are not preaching Hindu religion. While registering the association, I purposely kept this name, 'Krishna Consciousness,' neither Hindu religion nor Christian nor Buddhist religion."

Srila Prabhupada was aware that the Indian community had a mistaken impression of his Hinduness. In a 1970 letter to a temple administrator in Los Angeles, he wrote, "The Hindu community in the West has got some good feeling for me because superficially they are seeing that I am spreading Hindu religion, but factually this Krishna Consciousness movement is neither Hindu religion nor any other religion." That remains the case today, for Srila Prabhupada left no successor with the authority to change his spiritual edicts.
So why does the general Hindu community mistakenly believe that ISKCON is a Hindu organization, when it never describes itself as such? Well, it sometimes does. During the ISKCON temple openings in New Delhi and Bangalore, where newspaper reports frequently identified the grand temples as Hindu, the ISKCON press releases, such as that of April 15, 1998, never used the H word. Yet, when Indian devotees serving at each of those temples thought it was a Hindu temple. The discrepancy between public perception and internal policy is further confused by the group's official exceptions to the non-Hindu position. Faced with difficulties, ISKCON leaders have appealed to the Hindu community to back them up, as in a dispute over the Bhaktivedanta Manor in the UK or when being hassled by Christians in Russia and Poland. In appeals to judges and governments, the word Hindu is openly used. In other legal cases, including one to the US Supreme Court, ISKCON has attempted to counteract the "cult" label by claiming to be a traditional Hindu lineage, and asked other Hindus to affirm this in the courts. Other organizations who parted company with Hinduism, such as Transcendental Meditation and Brahma Kumaris, do not compromise their position under any circumstances.
What also sets ISKCON apart is its open repudiation and criticism of Hinduism, especially among members. There are Hindus who joined ISKCON only to be taught to reject their family's religion. Some people usually say"Previously we were Hindus. Now we are Hare Krishnas,". At the same time, the organization often appeals to the Hindu community and businessmen for financial support of its social programs and political help to protect ISKCON from detractors.
Considering ISKCON's appearances--member's dress, names, bhajana, festivals, worship, scripture, pilgrimage, temple building, and so forth--it's little wonder that so many have assumed they are Hindus. To find out they are not will certainly surprise many--Hindus and non-Hindus alike. It may even surprise a few Hare Krishnas themselves.


Regards
AhamAtma.


Namaskar and Namah Shivaya Aham!!

A very nice post. I'm sure a lot of Hare Krsnas when told, try to ignore this hypocritical double standard prevalent within their organization policies and philosophy as inculcated by Prabhupad and the followers. This will all continue in the same spirit though, but you will be told to "look beyond negative and get over it."

Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu new of all these tendencies that were to come. So he said: "In this age of hypocrisy and quarrel...chant God's name"
And of course centuries back Shri Adi Shankaracharya also told moodha mate to chant Govindam only. Because both these saints new that people would get into hypocrisy, double standards and make quarrel. Even abusing the cradle they came from in the struggle for supremacy and separate identity of own group.

Best wishes to all devotees / readers,
Yogkriya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam all

In defense off Iskcon as the title suggest, yes we should all do our bit to strengthen the Hindu unity, this was aptly demonstrated during the fight to keep Bhaktivedant manor open.
Hindus from all walks off life joined in force for the battle which was fought under the 'HINDU' banner. i was also a very small part in that defense. the struggle went on for years, near the end off it one evening on Sunday with packed Prabhupad room upstairs, mainly by devotees Loknath Swami gave a lecture in support of that ongoing struggle, i remember very vividly even today what he had to say, yes we are fighting this battle under the Hindu banner but we should remember we are not HINDUS, such hypocrisy.
unfortunately this is their stated position, it hurts i will not go into other short comings, YogKriya has listed them correctly i am sure we can all add a bit of our own i have had a long association with them but i still love the chanting and Darsan at the manor.
i end on a good note, the gone Janamastmi the Manor celebrated the festival with great success like every year it does. Many comments i hear from old people how wonderful it is all organized, a lot off effort goes in to it. Majority that do come are thankfully oblivious to all that goes on which a good thing.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

deleted

[PARAM]

ॐ
In defense of ISKCON as the title suggest I can say ISCKON has done nothing wrong in spreading Krishnism, it is part of Hinduism and ISCKON also belives it. They never challanged the historic or any other existance proof of Ram or any other Hindu deity, they know it already

There are many Ram and Hanuman groups, but instead of Dharm Prachar they focus more on politics, and later put it in dustbin for the sake of muslim votes, thats no Bhakti. Even Arya Samaj that was one of the Freedom Fighter organisation is not in action.

ISCKON is great

[Believer]

Namaste EM,

This greeting thing is a Western Xitian custom. Indian Mandirs don't have official greeters at the entrance. One goes to the Mandir because he wants to have a darshan of the Lord. Lord is the welcomer, not a schmuck standing there with a fake smile on his face.

"I even got kicked out at one here at Canada" - I have never ever heard of such a thing. Reach deep down in your heart and tell me what was the provocation?

[Yogkriya]

ॐ
In defense of ISKCON as the title suggest I can say ISCKON has done nothing wrong in spreading Krishnism, it is part of Hinduism and ISCKON also belives it. They never challanged the historic or any other existance proof of Ram or any other Hindu deity, they know it already

There are many Ram and Hanuman groups, but instead of Dharm Prachar they focus more on politics, and later put it in dustbin for the sake of muslim votes, thats no Bhakti. Even Arya Samaj that was one of the Freedom Fighter organisation is not in action.

ISCKON is great


LOL :D
You should read back the post of AhamAtma.

[Believer]

LOL :D
You should read back the post of AhamAtma.

Just when I had another person on board the UNITY express, you had to bring up the dirty laundry list and rain on the parade. A smart person knows when to speak and when to keep his mouth shut.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam


Just when I had another person on board the UNITY express,

Let us build this unity on mutual respect, in fact this unity can never be broken as long as one understands Karma and Dharma. one off the pillar of dharma is satya speaking the truth, if that means hanging the dirty laundry so be it.
institute come and go but Dharma is eternal.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Eastern Mind]

Vannakkam:

Just what is implied by unity? That we all think the same way? Gosh I hope not. I hope you guys mean unity within diversity, Hindu Solidarity, mutual respect, not the idea that we all have to believe the same thing. Unity my way? That never works.

Respecting the right to have opposite opinions on certain matters, and agreeing to disagree are my sentiments.

Aum Namasivaya

[Believer]

Let us build this unity on mutual respect, in fact this unity can never be broken as long as one understands Karma and Dharma. one off the pillar of dharma is satya speaking the truth, if that means hanging the dirty laundry so be it.
institute come and go but Dharma is eternal.

Ganeshji, I fully agree with your input. All I am saying is that I could put any school of thought in Hinduism under the microscope and find something that I don't like and then criticize that sampradaye. I could pick on Arya Samaj for totally being against murti pooja, and pick on Shaivism for worshipping a phallic symbol and pick on Kali pujaris for something else. There is no end. What we need to do is to overlook the differences and unite. This highly moralistic talk of Dharam implies that one sect is better than the other. There can be no unity with that type of thinking. High level of intellect among Indians is our greatest asset and also our greatest baggage. We tend to be overly moralistic and analytical of each and every concept. So, whereas I respect your input, I beg you to accept that I could find a million faults with whatever your beliefs or practices are. But, I have no desire or use for that. That would be counter-productive to the Hindu cause.

[Yogkriya]

Pranam

Let us build this unity on mutual respect, in fact this unity can never be broken as long as one understands Karma and Dharma. one off the pillar of dharma is satya speaking the truth, if that means hanging the dirty laundry so be it.
institute come and go but Dharma is eternal.

Jai Shree Krishna

Well said Ganeshprasad ji. It's been a long while.
Warm regards,

YogKriya.

[Yogkriya]

Just when I had another person on board the UNITY express, you had to bring up the dirty laundry list and rain on the parade. A smart person knows when to speak and when to keep his mouth shut.

Dear BELIEVER,

Namaskar!

Let's wash up the dirty linen and bring in UNITY.
It's not about fault finding just with any belief system or anyone.
You cannot generalize with cover ups.
Ask ISKCON if they are HINDUS or not.
Ask Prabhupad if he is Hindu or not and then let's be united!! If you ask Iskcon it is "You Unite with my way, cuz your way is hodge-podge ****."
I have no problem with uniting all.
Prabhupad had issued specific statements worldwide, that he has NOTHING TO DO with Hindus and its hodge-Podge ****.
There goes your UNITY down the drain with the sectarian politics!

Besides that, I have no problem and of course understand your point of view and that technically ISKCON does belong to Vaishnavism - one of the HINDU SANATANA DHARMA Sampradayas.

So I'm up for the UNITY EXPRESS moving ahead! :)

Hareeee Bollll!!!

Regards,
Yogkriya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Believerji




Ganeshji, I fully agree with your input. All I am saying is that I could put any school of thought in Hinduism under the microscope and find something that I don't like and then criticize that sampradaye. I could pick on Arya Samaj for totally being against murti pooja, and pick on Shaivism for worshipping a phallic symbol and pick on Kali pujaris for something else. There is no end. What we need to do is to overlook the differences and unite.

Thank you, i agree we are a diverse lot and Hindus are better for it What did you expect when you started this thread, you opened the can off worms.
As i said unity is a mutual respect and frankly if the Iskcon stated stand is that they are not Hindus, how do you propose to have that unity? you cant clap with one hand.




This highly moralistic talk of Dharam implies that one sect is better than the other. There can be no unity with that type of thinking. High level of intellect among Indians is our greatest asset and also our greatest baggage. We tend to be overly moralistic and analytical of each and every concept. So, whereas I respect your input, I beg you to accept that I could find a million faults with whatever your beliefs or practices are. But, I have no desire or use for that. That would be counter-productive to the Hindu cause.

let me clear one thing i do not belong to any sect, in fact only sect i ever considered was Iskcon but i did not like the idea off boxing my self in and not be able to think outside off it.i was brought up to respect all devas, i had no idea until i encountered Iskcon this hierarchy concept.

I am an individual who likes to follow Dharma and believe in Karma which makes me responsible for my actions. i truly believe it is Dharma and Karma that binds us all other concepts are or is what we have to realize, no need to fight over it.

yes you can find millions off fault in me and perhaps i would be a better person for it.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam YogKriyaji


It's been a long while.
Warm regards,

YogKriya.

It sure has been. my regards to you too.

Jai Shree Krishna

[AhamAtma]

I am not asking you to check into one of their Mandirs and get initiated. All I am asking is to look beyond the negative, focus on the positive and build bridges, unite in an effort to have one Hindu voice.


Hindu Voice !! Huh... ISKCON openly said they have nothing to do with that dirty 'H' word. :confused:




We have spent too much time nitpicking each other. Every sampradaye has its good points, and some quirks which are not palatable to non-members. With any sense of religiosity, and even a minute desire to advance spiritually, we must forgive, forget, overlook and move forward.


Hindu community is ready to accept even Islam into it, forget Hare Krsnas. But Islam is not ready. They abuse Hindus as Idolaters, False-god worshipers and Kafirs. They say that Hindus cannot get salvation. The same thing happens here with ISKCON too. It calls other sampradayas as False and worse than pashandis. Just like Muslims who show their Qur'an to support their claims, ISKCON too shows some interpolated verses from cult-documents.




I am just trying to make a case that we should let go of the past, get along with them and unite our fragmented Hindu community. Can I count on your understanding of this basic effort?




I'm a Hindu. Just like every other Hindu I too want my religion to be united. The Dharmacharyas of all sampradayas like Advaita, Dvaita, Sri Vaishnava, Sena Sampradaya, Lingayat, Saivadheenam, Varkari, Vallabhacharya, Nimbarka, Swaminarayan, Sudhhadvaita Pushtimarga Vaishnavas, and even Kabir Panth unitedly formed an association of all acharyas called "AcharyaSabha" to protect the Hindu Dharma. They fought on several issues like Ayodhya, Amarnath land row, Rama setu controversy..etc.

But ISKCON(including Gaudiya mutt) acharyas do not want to join the dirty 'H' Dharmacharyasabha. It is not Hindus who vilifiy Hare Krsnas but it is Hare Krsnas who vilify Hindus. If any problem arises in ISKCON, let it be legal or financial, it is always Hindus who come to defend them. So you convince Hare Krsna dharmacharyas(Monks) to join with Hindu community.

Even Virashaivas and Sri Vaishavites, Dvaitins and Advaitins left their differences behind and joined Hindu Dharmacharya sabha. You yourself decide whether the problem is with ISKCON or with Hindus

Regards,
AhamAtma


trayī sāṃkhyaṃ yogaḥ paśupatimataṃ vaiṣṇavam iti
prabhinne prasthāne param idam adaḥ pathyam iti ca
rucīnāṃ vaicitryād ṛjukuṭilanānāpathajuṣāṃ
nṛṇām eko gamyas tvam asi payasām arṇava iva

"There are different paths of realization as enjoined by the three Vedas, Sānkhyā, Yoga, Pāśupatam and Vaishnavam . Persons following different paths straight or crooked according as they consider that this path is best or that one is proper due to the difference in temperaments, reach Thee alone O Lord Shiva, just as rivers enter the ocean."

[Believer]

Personally, I have nothing to gain from what you guys decide. If it is the collective wisdom of the people here to stay fragmented, so be it. I am off of this thread.

Just remember, it is better to have all the diverse groups inside your tent pissing out, rather than them being outside, pissing in - on you.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam


Personally, I have nothing to gain from what you guys decide. If it is the collective wisdom of the people here to stay fragmented, so be it. I am off of this thread.

I find this strange, that you should blame this on us even after giving you the facts.



Just remember, it is better to have all the diverse groups inside your tent pissing out, rather than them being outside, pissing in - on you.

what do you do when they piss with in and with out? just a thought.

Jai Shree Krishna

[Adhvagat]

Firstly, let me introduce myself. My name is Pietro Impagliazzo, from Rio de Janeiro, Brazil. I got to know Sanatana Dharma because of a ISKCON project in a city near me.

Now let me present my line of thought:

Are most of you posters from India?

I'm not an expert in India or even any specific branch of the Sanatana Dharma, however, I can't help but look at this matter with my perspective.

Wasn't all of this needed in order to make the Vedas widespread in the ocident?

The term HINDU carries along a lot of ignorance and misconception. If it still carries now imagine in the 60s, in a conservative Christian society like the USA.

What I see when I look at Prabhupada's doings is what was needed to be done in order to establish the Vaishnava tradition here.

I'm not able to say why Prabhupada was unhappy (if he indeed was) with worship of other deities in India, but what I can assure is that he was going to show Krishna to a strictly monotheistic society, in which the acceptance of other deities would be a hard thing to do.

I've always follow my natural attraction to other deities and chant their name with joy and when I do so It makes me happy to know that these deities are devotees of the supreme person as well (feel free to correct me if I'm putting something incorrectly here).

ISKCON is suffering a crisis here in Brazil and it's a great thing. It's fragmenting, people abandoned sannyasi lifestyle and as of now we have only three sannyasis in the country, but three that have strong projects that have extremely positive ressonace within society.

I'm sure that in due time the sincere inquirers will notice that rising above what our gurus did isn't driving away from the parampara.

I'd be happy to help in this process, I hope to get to know India as a whole soon and I'm sure we all will unite in Sanatana Dharma.

Thanks to this community for making such a great place for philosophical discussions.

[Rasa1976]

In 1977 srila Prabhupada wrote in 'Science of Self Realization', "There is a misconception that the Krishna consciousness movement represents the Hindu religion. Sometimes Indians both inside and outside of India think that we are preaching the Hindu religion, but actually we are not." In chapter three of the book [available from Bhaktivedanta Archives, P.O. Box 255, Sandy Ridge, North Carolina 27046 USA], this startling point is made several times: "The Krishna consciousness movement has nothing to do with the Hindu religion or any system of religion.... One should clearly understand that the Krishna consciousness movement is not preaching the so-called Hindu religion."

Regards
AhamAtma.

I didn't see on this thread where the complaint is being directed at current ISKCON leadership as per their stance on Hinduism, and specifically which leaders. Maybe someone can show me what I might have missed.

The influence of time also figures into these statements, especially since they once defined a specific evangelistic stance, though perhaps some Hare Krishnas don't acknowledge that.

Prabhupada taught that preching was always to be conducted according to time, place and circumstances. By this time (30 some years later) hundreds of thousands of Hindus have become familiar with Iskcon and have contributed valuable service to the group.

While it's true that Prabhupada spoke out against any doctrine that denies "The Personality of Godhead", you won't find him making endless rants against "Hinduism", or any other religion for that matter. It was impersonalism he wanted to crush.

In my last year in Iskcon, I became keenly aware of how the membership was always fresh. The usual crop of disenfranchised youngsters would show up to enter the indoctrination machine. Most youth are brutal in any type of group, isn't this the kind of zealotry that Hindus have to suffer? I'm not sure, but at any rate - don't suffer it!

[atanu]

Pranam
what do you do when they piss with in and with out? just a thought.
Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasadji

A thought provoking question that. I jump in the fray with two more questions.

Agreed that it is big dilemma if 'they' piss in and out, but, then should that lead me to piss in and out? Someone has to eventually stop, else all will be in piss. And then where is the boundary of the tent?

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji


Namaste Ganeshprasadji

A thought provoking question that. I jump in the fray with two more questions.

Agreed that it is big dilemma if 'they' piss in and out, but, then should that lead me to piss in and out? Someone has to eventually stop, else all will be in piss. And then where is the boundary of the tent?

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

Welcome to the fray but let us not indulge in this gutter language, fire your questions so that we can all understand and respond with proper understanding.
thanks and regards

Jai Shree Krishna

[PARAM]

ॐ


LOL :D
You should read back the post of AhamAtma.

I post on something what I think myself, and if I have to say something about other's post I will give the hint; but after reading your post, I have read his post.
Including your post




However both of you and AhamAtma's post were quite interesting and in good spirit also, still ISCKON is a known Hindu organisation
Great people like Industrialist Ford are Hindu because of ISCKON, but why other organisations are not Active in Prachar? After Maharshi Mahesh Yogi nobody is such active

Check about Indian politicians, they always need votes and divide Hindus on the besis of caste, is there any organisation to oppose it






Pietro Impagliazzo
Jai Sri Krishan

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji
Welcome to the fray but let us not indulge in this gutter language, fire your questions so that we can all understand and respond with proper understanding.
thanks and regards

Jai Shree Krishna

Namaste Ganeshprasadji

I simply meant that there is no solution when the tent is limited.

Om Namah Shivaya

[atanu]

Namaste Ganeshprasadji

I simply meant that there is no solution when the tent is limited.

Om Namah Shivaya

Namaste Ganeshprasadji

In better words:

VI-20: Only when men shall roll up the sky like a skin, will there be an end of misery for them without realizing God.

Om

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji


Namaste Ganeshprasadji

In better words:

VI-20: Only when men shall roll up the sky like a skin, will there be an end of misery for them without realizing God.

Om

Now you have lost me.

i thought you had two questions, by the way where is this quote from?

Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji
Now you have lost me.
i thought you had two questions,

Namaste ganeshprasadji



Believer

Just remember, it is better to have all the diverse groups inside your tent pissing out, rather than them being outside, pissing in - on you.



Ganeshprasad
what do you do when they piss with in and with out?



Atanu
--then should that lead me to piss in and out? Someone has to eventually stop, else all will be in piss. And then where is the boundary of the tent?

Kindly note that the two questions were already asked, as shown above.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

[Sahasranama]

But we should spare throwing barbs at ISKCON or any other sampradaye, including Arya Samaj, which is against murti puja. At the end of the day, there has to be unity among the ranks of all shades of Hinduism, for us to survive. We have been divided and ruled by others for too long. Let us not do the same thing to ourselves.Respecting a tradition is something different than making them immume for criticism.

[Eastern Mind]

Respecting a tradition is something different than making them immume for criticism.


Vannakkam Sahsranam: I've been struggling with this lately. Sometimes differences of opinion are taken personally as severe criticism. The whole of Hinduism has its faults here and there, depending on points of view. I'd hate to see us all fall into the 'we're perfect' syndrome that some of the Abrahamics have. How can one improve if faults aren't seen by themselves or subtly pointed out by others. I also think there is a tactful way versus a hurtful way. I know I often hesitate to express my personal opinion for fear of being jumped on all over by people who disagree with said opinion. So I just hold it back. I'm sure some others are the same. Is it too much to ask to allow opinions and all the varying points of view to be expressed without thinking its a personal attack on another view?

An example is my view that Christ didn't exist. That's just my view. Others have theirs, and with me, that's fine as there is no proof either way. All of it is just opinion.

Aum Namasivaya

[Yogkriya]

Respecting a tradition is something different than making them immume for criticism.


.. especially if they don't respect the other traditions...
in this case Iskcon (His Divine Grace Shril Prabhupad ji Maharaj) who didn't/don't respect Hinduism (except for social, financial support time of course).

Respects.
Namah Shivaya

Yogkriya

[Sahasranama]

EM, I agree it's best not to hurt anyone or to think that we are perfect.

But...


. especially if they don't respect the other traditions...
in this case Iskcon (His Divine Grace Shril Prabhupad ji Maharaj) who didn't/don't respect Hinduism (except for social, financial support time of course).

Respects.
Namah ShivayaLook at how ISCKON has propaganded itself. I have a lot of respect for the Hare Krishnas in certain aspects, but they have become popular through bashing Hinduism. We should be able to respond to their criticism, distortions of scriptures and disrespect for our tradition. Hindus have a tendecy to say, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I am just going to say that you are right, in your own way." No, if we want to preserve Hindu Dharma, we have to stand up and defend ourselves.

Indeed, no one is perfect. But if someone is profiled as the guru of the masses, they open themselves and their teachings for critisism. If your guru freely bashes Hinduism, but when Hindus talk back, play the we all believe in the same God card, caveat emptor.

[Eastern Mind]

EM, I agree it's best not to hurt anyone or to think that we are perfect.

But...

Look at how ISCKON has propaganded itself. I have a lot of respect for the Hare Krishnas in certain aspects, but they have become popular through bashing Hinduism. We should be able to respond to their criticism, distortions of scriptures and disrespect for our tradition. Hindus have a tendecy to say, "I don't want to hurt your feelings, so I am just going to say that you are right, in your own way." No, if we want to preserve Hindu Dharma, we have to stand up and defend ourselves.

Indeed, no one is perfect. But if someone is profiled as the guru of the masses, they open themselves and their teachings for critisism. If your guru freely bashes Hinduism, but when Hindus talk back, play the we all believe in the same God card, caveat emptor.

Vannakkam Sahasranama: I am not very familiar with ISKCON world wide. I've only had 5 or 6 encounters over the years. It seems to me what got them noticed more is the fact they were and are willing to take it to the streets in the forms of dancing/singing on street corners in the old days, and popularly holding the (Jagannath?) parades in various large cities. I admire this aspect greatly as I sure wouldn't do it.

Aum

[Sahasranama]

I also admire that aspect of holding festivals and all. What I meant with becomming popular through Hindu bashing is what they have written in their books, purposely mistranslating verses, commentaries on the sacred scriptures used solely for the purpose of propaganda and fundraising, degrading traditional Hinduism etc.

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji


Namaste ganeshprasadji







Kindly note that the two questions were already asked, as shown above.

Regards

Om Namah Shivaya

Great in that case my answer would be, i much rather no body piss on anyone.
only boundary one should have as we do in the house, have a designated are to piss

Jai Shree Krishna

[atanu]

Pranam Atanu ji

Great in that case my answer would be, i much rather no body piss on anyone.
only boundary one should have, as we do in the house, have a designated area ---

Jai Shree Krishna

:D

It seems that Shri Yajvan has designed a self-cleaning hyper modern enclosure for the purpose.

Om Namah Shivaya

[Ganeshprasad]

Pranam Atanu ji


:D

It seems that Shri Yajvan has designed a self-cleaning hyper modern enclosure for the purpose.

Om Namah Shivaya

someone might mistake rain for the other, what do i know.

Jai Shree Krishna

[satay]

namaste,



Pranam Atanu ji
someone might mistake rain for the other, what do i know.

Jai Shree Krishna

That's where the senior members like yourself, atanu, yajvan, EM come in...

[Believer]

I had merely paraphrased one of President Lyndon Johnson's famous lines, as applicable to the general mood of the membership in response to the original post.

From the interest it generated, I see that the "spiritual seekers" have more interest in the urinary habits/capabilities of Hindu males, than in the original topic.
Makes you stop and think......

[grames]

Oh Satay,

To save the hygiene of this forum, i would expect you to remove such dirty responses including this post.


namaste,




That's where the senior members like yourself, atanu, yajvan, EM come in...

[kallol]

Good to see vigorous hindu culture coming to fore again. Remember Amartya Sen's novel " Argumentive Indians". It is on this discussions & debates (tarka shastra) that the hinduism has evolved and has become one of the biggest repository of creation and life.

The TRUTH is one and how different people, different sects and different culture view it are different. Some may be right up there and some may be in lower rung. But that suits perfectly to the differents levels of people we have. We are all uniquely placed in the spiritual path in terms of time, space and material. So we see that people of different mental levels get fitted to different sects, cultures, belief, etc.

And nothing is wrong. All go through class KG to college level and make no mistake it is a must, whether it is in a sigle life or multiple life.

Again beacuse of the uniqueness of being positioned in terms of time, space and material we also think differently and by nature get attached to that position. As time, space and material change these position change.

The time, space and society in which ISCKON was built was different. The target audience was different and motive was different. ISCKON teaches the same Geeta, Bhagavatam, etc. Only the method is different.

That way we always have fight between schools and also have to bear snobbery of some schools. But we out grow them over time.

So let us not debate on something which is temporary or a point in the spiritual growth path.

Let us appreciate the enormous positive side of the spread of the SD through different means.

I salute all.

Love and best wishes

[Believer]

Let us appreciate the enormous positive side of the spread of the SD through different means.

I salute all.

I could not have said it better.
Thank you for summarizing it all so well.

[atmarama108]

Prabhupada's teaching is that when we consider ourselves Hindu, Christian, Muslim it is just another bodily designation. This is a most important point. That was his primary reason to say that ISKCON is not a "Hindu" organization. It straight away identifies ISKCON as non sectarian... We should spend more time with spiritual activities and less with philosophical debates - and maybe we could come to realize this?

"Ahh, what a realization! I'm not a hindu, or a christian, or a muslim - I am pure spirit soul, part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Wow..."

We need to transcend temporary designations and come to our eternal position: "jivera swarupa hoi krsna nitya das"

Jaya Prabhupada!
Jaya Gurudeva!

[Believer]

That was his primary reason to say that ISKCON is not a "Hindu" organization.Do you know of any religious organization based on Bible which has successfully contested as not being Christian?

How can a faith based on the most sacred Hindu scripture, the Bhagwad Gita, define itself as being non-Hindu? Anyone claiming that would be living a lie, which should not be the foundation of our faith. ISKCON is a Vaishnava sampradaye, and Vaishnavism is part of Hinduism. Lot of quotations are ascribed to Srila Praphupad without any basis/validity/proof and I cannot defend that practice. I have immense respect for Srila Prabhupad, as I do towards our other Acharayas. But when we deify humans, the Lord takes a back seat. Is that what we have come down to?


We should spend more time with spiritual activities and less with philosophical debates - and maybe we could come to realize this?And be truthful about the source of the spark that ignited our desire to be more spiritual.


"Ahh, what a realization! I'm not a hindu, or a christian, or a muslim - I am pure spirit soul, part and parcel of the Supreme Lord. Wow..."And the Bhagwad Gita taught me that. Shutting out the source - Bhagwad Gita of Hinduism - would be akin to denying the Bhagwad Gita itself. What is left in the faith, if we deny that basic fact? There is no Vaishnavism if we turn our backs on Lord Krishna and His word, is there?


We need to transcend temporary designations and come to our eternal position: "jivera swarupa hoi krsna nitya das"I could not agree more with that. But does that require our shutting out the source where the divine thought came from - Lord Krishna's word from the Bhagwad Gita of the Vaishnava sampradaye of Hinduism?

[kahanam]

ISKCON believes in Dvaita Sampradaya with Chaitanya's Bhakthi Marga. They do a good job in spreading Sanatana Dharma. We believe that "Hariyum Sivanum Onnu" Such realisation also will come to the concerned people in due course by His Grace! Om Tat Sat!:) :) :)

[Believer]

They do a good job in spreading Sanatana Dharma.
I don't doubt that.
Pardon me, but I was discussing the issue with the "They" (atmarama108) - an ISKCON devotee.

[yajvan]

　
hariḥ oṁ
~~~~~~

namasté kahanam,


ISKCON believes in Dvaita Sampradaya with Chaitanya's Bhakthi Marga. They do a good job in spreading Sanatana Dharma.

May I ask your opinion on this matter? Do you think this is a requirement or need of sanātana dharma or is it more indigenous to ISKCON. Any thoughts on this?

praṇām

[kahanam]

I do not think that Sanatana Dharma forces anyone to do this or that. As human thought evolved, the longing to be one with the Lord increasd! Doing Karma without expectation of any reward purifies the thought. Then following Bhakthi Maarga, chanting the Names of the Lord, Navavitha Bhakthi,satsangha, surrendering to His Will all elevates the being further. Finally by His Grace, Gnana or true knowledge dawns.Moksha or liberation follows.The various Margas lead to the same goal including ISKCON!Only the routes differ!:) :) :)

[atmarama108]

I do not think that Sanatana Dharma forces anyone to do this or that. As human thought evolved, the longing to be one with the Lord increasd! Doing Karma without expectation of any reward purifies the thought. Then following Bhakthi Maarga, chanting the Names of the Lord, Navavitha Bhakthi,satsangha, surrendering to His Will all elevates the being further. Finally by His Grace, Gnana or true knowledge dawns.Moksha or liberation follows.The various Margas lead to the same goal including ISKCON!Only the routes differ!:)

According to the teachings of Lord Caitanya, dharma, artha, karma & moksa are insignificant next to bhakti, or Krsna prema. :)


ISKCON believes in Dvaita Sampradaya with Chaitanya's Bhakthi Marga. They do a good job in spreading Sanatana Dharma. We believe that "Hariyum Sivanum Onnu" Such realisation also will come to the concerned people in due course by His Grace! Om Tat Sat!

Lord Caitanya's philosophy is not simply dvaita - it is achintya bed abed tattva - ie simultaneous oneness and difference. It is some of both advaita and dvaita. That is why achintya, inconceivable.:D


How can a faith based on the most sacred Hindu scripture, the Bhagwad Gita, define itself as being non-Hindu? Vaishnavism is part of Hinduism.

Please can you show me the vedic scrpiture that refers to "hinduism"? It is simply a concocted word. The vedas do however speak of sanatana dharma, which translates as "The eternal religion". Therefore sanatana dharma is a more correct label if you need one. Religion is one, just as God is one - we have simply created so many different coverings...


Lot of quotations are ascribed to Srila Praphupad without any basis/validity/proof and I cannot defend that practice. I have immense respect for Srila Prabhupad, as I do towards our other Acharayas.


Here is a link about ISKCON & Hinduism if you are interested. http://www.salagram.net/IskconHinduism.html