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Tirisilex
08 September 2010, 10:35 AM
Where do dreams come from?

Ekanta
08 September 2010, 12:22 PM
Sleep

Onkara
08 September 2010, 12:30 PM
Hi Tirisilex
I would say from memory, which I assume to be essential material (chemical)?

Have you recently seen the film "interception (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1375666/)"?

What role do dreams have in Sanatana Dharma, are they just to be ignored? If not then where do they fit in?

I enjoyed the witty answer by the way, Ekanta :)

Tirisilex
08 September 2010, 08:51 PM
Nope I haven't seen this film..

I'm asking this question because I know the answer in Buddhism.. I wanted to know it's answer in Advaita.. In Tibetan Buddhism there are 8 Consciousness.
The first five is the senses.. Sight, Sound, Touch, Smell, Taste.. The sixth is the thinking consciousness which judges the senses and can mimic them in it's memory.. The Seventh Consciousness is the Ego.. The sense of "I"ness The Eighth sense is the storehouse consciousness.. Memories and Karmic imprints are stored here.. Dreams come forth from the Eighth consciousness.

Where does it come from according to Advaitic understanding?

Ao
08 September 2010, 09:29 PM
Where does it come from according to Advaitic understanding?

I don't know the answer to this question, but to me dreams are usually ways for your mind to deal with things in real life. Kind of a psychic-purging process, if you will. This is not to imply that dreams are meaningless; they could, I believe, be important to help you realize what is inside of you that is wanting a more outward expression.

I believe Eastern Mind has commented similarly on this topic, and hope he'll add his two cents here.

Eastern Mind
08 September 2010, 10:00 PM
Vannakkam Tirisilex: In my school which is sort of Advaita, but not really either, it is recommended to ignore dreams and not to analyse them.

As Ao alluded to, they are basically of two kinds: unfinished desires, and subconscious clearing. The unfinished desires may involve others, people that you know, and really have naught to do with them. Things like flying may reflect a desire to have been born more athletic, for example. But once we become more religious, there is an area of the mind called the sub-superconscious which is basically the intuition's memory. So it naturally works on making the regular subconscious mind less clouded, and more like a window pane: a clear slate if you will. The clearer it is, the easier intuitive consciousness can flow. So the reason we don't want to remember them is that if we recall those memories, it won't allow the subsuperconscious mind to do its job.

I don't know if all this makes any sense, but that the heck, eh?

Best wishes.

Aum Namasivaya

Onkara
09 September 2010, 01:22 AM
Nope I haven't seen this film..

I'm asking this question because I know the answer in Buddhism.. I wanted to know it's answer in Advaita.. In Tibetan Buddhism there are 8 Consciousness.
The first five is the senses.. Sight, Sound, Touch, Smell, Taste.. The sixth is the thinking consciousness which judges the senses and can mimic them in it's memory.. The Seventh Consciousness is the Ego.. The sense of "I"ness The Eighth sense is the storehouse consciousness.. Memories and Karmic imprints are stored here.. Dreams come forth from the Eighth consciousness.

Where does it come from according to Advaitic understanding?

Hi
That is interesting what you offer on buddhism. There is only on consciousness in Advaita. So all that happens, including dreams, come from that. If we need to pin-point a specific locaiton, I would say it is the mind.

I suggest reading the Mandukya Upanishad with Karika Of Gaudapada and the concept of the Koshas (or sheaths which include the mind). If I come across more scriptural or puranic answers, I will share them here :)

kallol
09 September 2010, 07:17 AM
For me both Mind and Dream are special cases for more research.

I am still confused about where to put the mind - in prakriti or inbetween prakriti and purusha. It is also permanent like prakriti and purusha.

Then what is mind ? It remains throughout our journey through birth and rebirth and it is the only connector to the different lokas.

Then what is the dream ? Definitely the time space and material are different here but does it give the hint of other lokas ?

It is an important part of us and definitely cannot be ignored untill and unless we have definite reasons for it.

Love and best wishes

Onkara
09 September 2010, 07:45 AM
For me both Mind and Dream are special cases for more research.

I am still confused about where to put the mind - in prakriti or inbetween prakriti and purusha. It is also permanent like prakriti and purusha.

Then what is mind ? It remains throughout our journey through birth and rebirth and it is the only connector to the different lokas.

Then what is the dream ? Definitely the time space and material are different here but does it give the hint of other lokas ?

It is an important part of us and definitely cannot be ignored untill and unless we have definite reasons for it.

Love and best wishes

Namasté Kallol
I had the exact same predicament, so I hope I can add some ideas for your consideration. I will speak from my perception as it stands (from Advaita):

Mind has no independent existence, but we are able to witness it's operation as if it were independent in the same way that the right hand is independent of the left, but they are both still you. It is Prakriti. Lord Krishna clarifies this:

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind,
Intellect, ego-principle:
These are the eight divisions of
My prakriti, O Arjuna.1 (7.4) (http://www.atmajyoti.org/gi_bhagavad_gita_ch7.asp)

So, it is easier in practice to take the mind as being one with the body and nature (prakriti). The mind will continue to think whilst the heart continues to beat.

Whilst we consider ourself to be the mind we will continue to be influenced by it. Or rather we will be continue to be influenced by the Guṇas and sense objects through the mind.

At the time of death, if we still see ourself as the mind then when we die our subtle body (including the vāsanā etc) will be re-incarnated along with our karma.

However, we know from scriptural comments that the Self-realised person is liberated of saṃsāra (re-incarnation and new karma). This is because realisation that one is in fact the Self (Brahman) implies that the mind is no longer operating on an individual (the subtle body) but rather it is and was and will always be Brahman.

As Brahman is both the Object and Subject and beyond both there cannot be any karma or individual mind (or subtle body) on which the karma can stick/accumulate. For Brahman is both the witness and the actor.

Feedback or thoughts welcome as always. :)

kallol
09 September 2010, 08:17 AM
Namasté Kallol
I had the exact same predicament, so I hope I can add some ideas for your consideration. I will speak from my perception as it stands (from Advaita):

Mind has no independent existence, but we are able to witness it's operation as if it were independent in the same way that the right hand is independent of the left, but they are both still you. It is Prakriti. Lord Krishna clarifies this:

Earth, water, fire, air, ether, mind,
Intellect, ego-principle:
These are the eight divisions of
My prakriti, O Arjuna.1 (7.4) (http://www.atmajyoti.org/gi_bhagavad_gita_ch7.asp)

So, it is easier in practice to take the mind as being one with the body and nature (prakriti). The mind will continue to think whilst the heart continues to beat.

Whilst we consider ourself to be the mind we will continue to be influenced by it. Or rather we will be continue to be influenced by the Guṇas and sense objects through the mind.

At the time of death, if we still see ourself as the mind then when we die our subtle body (including the vāsanā etc) will be re-incarnated along with our karma.

However, we know from scriptural comments that the Self-realised person is liberated of saṃsāra (re-incarnation and new karma). This is because realisation that one is in fact the Self (Brahman) implies that the mind is no longer operating on an individual (the subtle body) but rather it is and was and will always be Brahman.

As Brahman is both the Object and Subject and beyond both there cannot be any karma or individual mind (or subtle body) on which the karma can stick/accumulate. For Brahman is both the witness and the actor.

Feedback or thoughts welcome as always. :)


Dear Snip,

Thanks some of the above add to my knowledge.

My POV is still the present and future science where I perceive the advaita and the science meet.

From that point I am able to percieve and position all other elements except mind.

Again the next part there is a subtle variation from my POV.

The feeling of "I" is due to the mind in the ocean of consciousness. Without mind that feeling of "I" is lost and it is not possible to reach that state practically. Even Bramha has rebirth.

The cycle of birth and rebirth is a perpetual thing. We can only slow down or make it faster but stopping is a ideal situation where there is no mind or mind is absolutely still. And this being not the reality, so slowing down is the best we can do.

However to make the life a blessing, we need to understand that "mind and body with intellect" is the instrument which is inert by itself but is enabled by consciousness to act. To align with consciousness, which is peramanent helps us overcome the trauma of body experiencing the death. Unfortunately the consciousness cannot be known so cannot be aligned with.

What we can align with is the "I" which lives on. This "I" is the mind in consciousness which can be moderated to slow down the birth-rebirth cycle to the level of almost permanent (but not permanent).

But at least this gives us a feeling or permanency and not live through death to death.

Love to have more ideas on this.

Love and best wishes

saidevo
09 September 2010, 08:27 AM
namaste everyone.

I have some thoughts about how dreams are caused based on Hindu teachings, Advaita specifically.

• Yes, there is only one consciousness in Advaita, that of Brahman known as the Self, which is the witness to all the four states of existence. Since our Shruti (especially MANDukya upaniShad) speaks about dreams as one of the four states of existence, dreams are significant as a channel of fulfilment of hidden desires and as a way to expend our karma.

• In Hinduism, only the Atman is chaitanya--having consciousness; buddhi--intellect, and manas--mind, are jaDa--insentient, made of subtle matter that is constantly in motion, and reflects the light of the Atman. Since the buddhi and manas rule over the internal and external senses, there is no question of their having their own reflections of the light of the Self.

• Perhaps one way to understand dreams is this: in a movie, light passes through a moving series of image frames recorded on film or digitally, and the effect of animation thus created is projected on a screen.

In a dream, the impressions--vAsanas, stored in the chitta part of our mind are dramatized by the mind by forming associations between the selected impressions. Our mind thinks by association, weaving objects and actions in and out, often resulting in a piece of thought-fabric that looks motley as a clown's shirt. It is the same mind that picks up the stored impressions in dream, where the objects and actions are much more readily animated because of the subtle matter and energy of the astro-mental plane.

• To put it another way, the mind is always in motion in the waking and dreaming states, allowing a disarray of thoughts (which are animated subtle matter and energy) to pass through and play. Since the mind reflects the light of the Self, the jIva--ego, sees and associates itself with this distorted, disco-like pulsations of images in the dream which are woven into a tale by the mind.

In the waking state, the buddhi--intellect, is more functional, so it checks and filters and our wild thoughts, often warning us of impropriety by our mana-sAkShi--conscience. Since buddhi is more dormant in the dream state, the ego is unable to see the reality and impropriety of the dream while being in that state.

• The mind readily lends itself to wild, strange and random associations in dreams, which is why they are mostly illogical with abrupt changes in scenes and actions. This is also the reason that the dreams cannot be interpreted meaningfully, except when they are cogent and vividly remembered in waking state.

"Our sweetest songs are those that tell of saddest thoughts", said the English poet Percy Bysshe Shelley. Perhaps we can say, "Our awkwardest dreams are those that tell of our wildest thoughts."

Onkara
09 September 2010, 08:38 AM
1) From that point I am able to perceive and position all other elements except mind.

2) The feeling of "I" is due to the mind in the ocean of consciousness. Without mind that feeling of "I" is lost and it is not possible to reach that state practically. Even Bramha has rebirth.


3) However to make the life a blessing, we need to understand that "mind and body with intellect" is the instrument which is inert by itself but is enabled by consciousness to act. To align with consciousness, which is permanent helps us overcome the trauma of body experiencing the death. Unfortunately the consciousness cannot be known so cannot be aligned with.

4) What we can align with is the "I" which lives on. This "I" is the mind in consciousness which can be moderated to slow down the birth-rebirth cycle to the level of almost permanent (but not permanent).But at least this gives us a feeling or permanency and not live through death to death.
Love to have more ideas on this. Love and best wishes
Namasté Kallol
I have categorised your post to help focus my thoughts in reply. It is interesting to read your perspective :)

1) Mind is still too subtle to be called an element by science it seems. We know that mind is influenced by chemicals; enough vodka will change the way we think, memorise and feel. So I feel it is safe to treat the mind as a part of the body, despite that we witness its movement differently.

2) Nicely explained and I must agree. This sense of “I” creates the ability to be an individual in the non-dual consciousness.

3) If we know that it is consciousness which creates, sustains and dissolves(reincarnation) the mind then we are closer to knowing that we are that very consciousness and not that which is observed and transitory i.e. the body-mind-intellect. This knowing, without interruption is liberation, is it not?

4) Agreed. On the thread “Ego?” started by Trisilex I expressed that I am of the opinion that the “I-Sense” cannot be completely destroyed, however one can still be liberated from it whilst living and it behaves better when it, ahaṃkāra, comes to know who its real master is (satchitananda).

I hope this is useful too. I apologise that this is now perhaps off the direct topic of "Dream" and will happily step out of this thread if not appropriate.

saidevo
09 September 2010, 10:05 AM
namaste.

I think it is alright to speak about mind in a thread of dreams because mind is the very source and field of dreams.

Kallol said in post no.8:
I am still confused about where to put the mind - in prakriti or inbetween prakriti and purusha. It is also permanent like prakriti and purusha.

Snip said in post no.9:
So, it is easier in practice to take the mind as being one with the body and nature (prakriti). The mind will continue to think whilst the heart continues to beat.

Kallol said in post no.10:
My POV is still the present and future science where I perceive the advaita and the science meet.

From that point I am able to percieve and position all other elements except mind.

The feeling of "I" is due to the mind in the ocean of consciousness. Without mind that feeling of "I" is lost and it is not possible to reach that state practically. Even Bramha has rebirth.

Snip said in post no.12:
1) Mind is still too subtle to be called an element by science it seems. We know that mind is influenced by chemicals; enough vodka will change the way we think, memorise and feel. So I feel it is safe to treat the mind as a part of the body, despite that we witness its movement differently.

*****

Examining the above statements, we find that there are three entities involved: Atma-chaitanya as the consciousness of Self/Brahman, chidAbAsa as the reflected consciousness of the Self and antaHkaraNa as the mind. How are these related to one another and how do they interact to raise the I-feeling of an individual jIva that reincarnates?

The book 'panchAdashI' by shrI VidyAraNya svAmi has the answer, which I have posted in this link:
http://www.hindudharmaforums.com/showpost.php?p=37267&postcount=24

Once we read the explanations in the above link, we will readily understand that the Self, by paraspara-adhyAsa--mutual superimposition, imparts its consciousness on the Atma-buddhi-manas, the ego-intellect-mind, and by this superimposition arises the jIva as the self (I-ness) that reincarnates. Just as a person identifies himself/herself with the home, this reflected consciousness identifies itself readily with its home of antaH-karaNa, rather than its source, the Self.

saidevo
09 September 2010, 10:34 AM
namaste Snip and Kallol.



1) Mind is still too subtle to be called an element by science it seems. We know that mind is influenced by chemicals; enough vodka will change the way we think, memorise and feel. So I feel it is safe to treat the mind as a part of the body, despite that we witness its movement differently.


Physical science interprets mind within the exclusive domain of the cerebral-neuro system of the body, so our thoughts and dreams are explained as only patterns of electro-neuro-chemical reactions and communications.

Although Science tries to create a make-believe of the supposed physical finality of our thoughts and dreams using computer animation, just as in the film "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know), the concept and the paradigm are still only in the minds of scientists, until they are able to prove it objectively, as in an endoscopic video.

On the spiritual side of things, the physical brain is only a receiver/transmitter of thoughts that originate in the astro-mental body--sUkShma sharIra; their origination in turn is because of the energy currents of the pent up vAsanas.

This would mean that a person under the influence of liquor does not get his mind altered, but only the cerebral connection to it distorted. Liquor affects the medulla oblongata (which ParamahaMsa YogAnanda describes as the transmitter) which transmits distorted impulses and this in turn temporarily affects the impressions in the chitta. A drunkard forgets what he talked while he was drunk because once his brain clears, its transmission and receipt of thought impulses are streamlined.

I read somewhere that a man in comatose would still have his thoughts and dreams although his brain is shut-off to them.

Ao
10 September 2010, 05:43 AM
namaste Snip and Kallol.



Physical science interprets mind within the exclusive domain of the cerebral-neuro system of the body, so our thoughts and dreams are explained as only patterns of electro-neuro-chemical reactions and communications.

Although Science tries to create a make-believe of the supposed physical finality of our thoughts and dreams using computer animation, just as in the film "What the Bleep Do We Know!?" (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/What_the_Bleep_Do_We_Know), the concept and the paradigm are still only in the minds of scientists, until they are able to prove it objectively, as in an endoscopic video.

On the spiritual side of things, the physical brain is only a receiver/transmitter of thoughts that originate in the astro-mental body--sUkShma sharIra; their origination in turn is because of the energy currents of the pent up vAsanas.

This would mean that a person under the influence of liquor does not get his mind altered, but only the cerebral connection to it distorted. Liquor affects the medulla oblongata (which ParamahaMsa YogAnanda describes as the transmitter) which transmits distorted impulses and this in turn temporarily affects the impressions in the chitta. A drunkard forgets what he talked while he was drunk because once his brain clears, its transmission and receipt of thought impulses are streamlined.

I read somewhere that a man in comatose would still have his thoughts and dreams although his brain is shut-off to them.

Interesting Saidevo, particularly the last part. There are many connections in the mind that we still do not understand. For example, in language acquisition memory of course plays a huge role. But some people simply cannot connect a sound from a foreign language with an extant meaning in their brains, even if they can connect a different sound from their own language to that same meaning. E.g. I know the term "book" to mean a "bound set of printed pages covered in writing"; were I afflicted with the preceding condition I couldn't apply the Japanese term "hon" to the same concept even if I could apply the English term "apple". For people like this, they simply cannot form the appropriate synapses.

Now, onto dreams, our minds are always making connections, as you stated. For people whose minds function in different ways than the norm, are those same connections occurring? Certainly, for the brain is also a very specialized organ.

What does any of this mean? That there is still much to be learned! But in the metaphysical sense, your explanation of the layering/imposing of Self onto the body-mind-intellect trio strikes me as being supremely sound. Were we to draw a defining line on a practical level, I believe we could do so by combining body & mind as Snip proposes, and cross-labeling intellect with consciousness--an element of the mind whose physical roots are still very mysterious despite some novel uses of MRIs and other scanning techniques.

Please note that I have much more research to do into these matters and am in no way trying to claim the role of expert.

kallol
10 September 2010, 07:23 AM
First let me thank Snip, Saidevo and AO for the enlightening posts.

Saidevo thanks for the link. I will try to go through and analyse. Generally I constantly think on these as threads appear and have hardly read books (as they might bias my thoughts). Only one discourse I hear i.e. Geeta.

Way to dreams is through the mind.

Science is an evolving subject which has not reached equillibrium. So the theories change and evolve. It is in no position to understand mind, consciousness, etc. But in future it will definitely be able to bring the metaphysical part into the research domain. As I mentioned the knowledge goal can be achieved through 2 ways - science way or spiritual way (remember the 14 days and 14 months path mentioned by Rishi Viswamitra in Ramayana ?). Science path is easy but long. While spiritual part is difficult, abstract but short.

Though mind being ever changing should be clubbed with prakriti, the fact that it is beyond energy (unmanifested prakriti) and is able to move energy, and also that it is the entity due to which consciousness is enshrined in a body (like the filament of a bulb - a similie), give rise to some questions. It is the only entity, the consciousness recognises. Without it there is no life in a body.

Now we have 3 entities which are there as permanent features through manifestation and unmanifestation : Brahman, Prakriti and the Mind. However in broader terms both prakriti and mind are inert by themselves and are changing, so they can be clubbed together. But still how is mind defined in terms of prakriti ?

Subtle body - to what extent subtle ? Where is the baseline of subtleness ? That should be the permanent entity.

If it is beyond energy then energy itself should move in that direction as it is a temporary state. But it does not happen !!!

Then the question : Is mind a different entity than prakriti ?

I think more we can understand the mind and its relation with prakriti and purusha, the better we will be able to appreciate the cause and meaning of dreams.

Love and best wishes

kallol
10 September 2010, 07:56 AM
Namasté Kallol
I have categorised your post to help focus my thoughts in reply. It is interesting to read your perspective :)

1) Mind is still too subtle to be called an element by science it seems. We know that mind is influenced by chemicals; enough vodka will change the way we think, memorise and feel. So I feel it is safe to treat the mind as a part of the body, despite that we witness its movement differently.

2) Nicely explained and I must agree. This sense of “I” creates the ability to be an individual in the non-dual consciousness.

3) If we know that it is consciousness which creates, sustains and dissolves(reincarnation) the mind then we are closer to knowing that we are that very consciousness and not that which is observed and transitory i.e. the body-mind-intellect. This knowing, without interruption is liberation, is it not?

4) Agreed. On the thread “Ego?” started by Trisilex I expressed that I am of the opinion that the “I-Sense” cannot be completely destroyed, however one can still be liberated from it whilst living and it behaves better when it, ahaṃkāra, comes to know who its real master is (satchitananda).

I hope this is useful too. I apologise that this is now perhaps off the direct topic of "Dream" and will happily step out of this thread if not appropriate.


Dear Snip,

I agree to whatever you say as those are in the scriptures. I am trying to think the "why" part and go to the basics.

Mind as element is not the science element but the spiritual element - just for reference. May be I should have used entity instead of element.

Consciousness is the cause of "I" and that is known but that consciousness will remain unknown. I can align and have that knowledge to get rid of the birth and death pangs (sense of liberation). But the mind remains and moves on in the cycle.

This knowledge and the assimilation of it in the daily life is the way to liberation. The mind goes through the perpetual birth - rebirth. It may slow down but cannot stop. Only the knowledge helps - but again the knowledge is through the mind. So how absolute it can become with the ego ? Is there a way out ? - yes as said in Geeta - the almost purer minds gets to bramhaloka and gets liberated. In practical sense it is the micro level residual charges getting dischaged through minimal interactions with other bigger charges.

Remember in Mahabharata when Yudhistira went to the hell (for the one lie he said) for a short while the other sinners were requesting him to stay for some more time, as the breeze from him is cooling them.

I think there are lots of knowledge in between the text of ramayana and mahabharata, which might provide the necessary understanding of the scriptures.

Thanks for your inputs. I always love them.

Love and best wishes

Onkara
10 September 2010, 10:03 AM
Namasté Kallol
The sound point you make above comes in very useful here: we can ask ourselves who is it who is asking “Why?”. The answer is that it is the same mind which asks “why?” which receives the answer isn’t it. Like a dog chasing it’s own tail. So we could say that what we are doing here is brining our mind to rest through jñana yoga.

There comes a point when we notice that pretty much all that the mind does is ask and answer questions (our own questions or another’s, but the way mind works is the same). Mediation, nama japa and other spiritual activities show us that we can disconnect our conscious witnessing self from the mind and the mind continues to chant japa whilst we look on - witnessing. This witness is consciousness.

At some point you – divine consciousness – takes a step back and sees that all that you have known throughout your whole life has been coming and going in this foundation of consciousness like clouds in the sky. In fact although our bodies and factual knowledge has changed a lot over the last 30 years, we still know ourselves to be the same being at core. This core being (sat) is consciousness (chit) and when it comes to rest in knowing this then it knows bliss (ananda) too. As you say, liberated from the pangs of life and death, whilst living.

I think ‘element’ was a good choice of words, as we are told that the world is made of 5 elements and so why not mind too. It can be helpful to think that mind is a part of nature and so not take our thoughts too personally. Especially negative or unhelpful thoughts can be rejected as “not mine” neti-neti. As Saidevoji says, the mind is like a transmitter/receive of a wave of thoughts (sound in fact). This is where your scientific background will prove valuable to us. :)

My personal observation is that once one is familiar with the scriptures, and as you say in your case Ramayana and Mahabharata, then it is just a question of seeing that our mind acts within our consciousness and that we are always that divine consciousness which includes all, including dreaming. What a wondrous life!

Tirisilex
10 September 2010, 11:32 AM
Would Samskara play a role in dreams?

kallol
10 September 2010, 11:46 AM
Thanks Snip for your ever enlightening post.

I can only percieve to the same points as mentioned by you. This definitely is the truth unfortunately this scientific bias looks for a way to define the truth.

So I will live with the knowledge as mentioned by you.

Thanks again for such a wonderful discussion.

Love and best wishes

Tirisilex
10 September 2010, 04:47 PM
According to the book "Yoga: Immortality and Freedom" by Mircea Eliade Samskara is defined as "the activity of the sub-conscious." These in turn create Vasanas.. So dreams are forms of Vasanas growing from Samskara ??

Adhvagat
11 September 2010, 02:36 AM
I'd like to point out a good reading on dreams from a psychologist who was greatly fond of religion and understood its importance in the human mind.

The name of the book is "Man and his Symbols" by Carl Gustav Jung.

It's a great new way to look at your mind and dreams, dreams being a key feature of unlocking what the conscious mind has difficult doing.

Conscious living is the realm of logic and sensation whereas dreams are the realm of emotions and possibility of sensations (intuition).

Jung's observation makes me think that when we are dreaming we have a greater connection to the Paramatma, but that's just my speculation, no serious study on this yet.

I started my study on Analytical Psychology after a dear Swami friend of mine questioned why hasn't anybody ever saw psychology with the eyes of the vedas, that has seriously intrigued me and made me start my study, firstly on this book I mentioned.

Sorry if it's all a bit unclear, it's still for me.

amra
12 September 2010, 09:43 AM
The only true wisdom that has become manifest here, has been what chosen people received through 'dreams'.

There is an analogy of a Radio which was found by some savages. When they tuned into a radio station and heard the radio being 'played' they began to dismantle the radio to find out where the sound was coming from. Without knowing that the radio waves causing the sound are unseen.

Likewise the physical brain recieves impressions from outer objects but can also tune into other frequencies and receive influences from unseen sources. There is a hierarchy of minds, like russian dolls each enclosed in each other. The human mind can receive instructions in dreams, but first it has to learn another language.

brahman
02 October 2010, 06:31 AM
Where do dreams come from?
:) Brahman


The impressions of waking experiences are reproduced in the form of dream objects. From the empirical standpoint there is a causal relationship between the waking state and the dream state.

In dreams mental states consisting of the impressions of the waking state are experienced.
During the dream state the sleeping man is aware of the external world and of internal ideas. But when he awakes and reviews the dream experiences, he comes to realise that they were nothing but the internal activity of the mind. When a man is asleep his sense organs are inactive. Therefore the dream experiences cannot but be mental states.

The experiencer in the dream state is non-different from the experiencer in the waking state.
In the waking state one's consciousness is associated with gross objects, whereas in the dream state one sees the impressions of past experiences. But in reality the experiences of waking and dreaming are of the same nature; for in both states the perceiver is aware only of his mental states. From the standpoint of dreams, the dream objects are as gross and physical as those experienced in the waking state. It is from the standpoint of waking alone that one infers that the dream objects are subtle, inasmuch as in the dream state no gross object exists for the dreamer.

Shravana , manana, nidhidhyasana of Holy Mandikukya/Samadhi pada of Shri. Patanjali Sutras. :) love






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